Discussion Hito Hito no Mi: What Exactly It is and How it Works

[Deleted member 169696]

AFAIK hito/ningen is not used like that. You won't use it in a phrase like "I will talk to that person over there", unless who is speaking is an alien.

Pretty sure you can use it like that ...

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

As for the kanji and the meaning of hito, pretty sure that in Japanese it's synonymous with human. Kanji for person/human — 人 (hito), and then there's 人間 (ningen) — human being. But these are interchangeable.

In English, Person means Human too because only Persons can be Humans. Can't have a Dog that is a Person, or a Cat that is a Person. Only Humans can be Persons, thus, Hito would also be limited to Humans and imply Humans as the only people capable of being Persons are Humans.

But to be fair hito can mean person too.

And this is really the only consistent interpretation that makes sense because:

• It's out-rightly stated that Chopper isn't Human.
• Chopper looks nothing like a Human no matter how we try to cut it or slice it.
• Oda also doesn't consider Buddha to be a Human, yet he bares the Hito Hito name, but given that Buddha has intelligence and is a Creature of some sort or belongs to an unidentifiable Species as Oda said, the one thing he most definitely is... is a person.

It therefore means that since Buddha isn't considered Human and Chopper is out-rightly stated not Human, the only thing that logically makes sense and consistently brings everything together without making exceptions is Hito means Person. The only thing the 2 Hito models share is being Persons.

Same thing regarding the Ryu models which can also be said to be Dinosaurs or Dragons. We know full well that none of the are Dragons, therefore, the context is the word Ryu is being used in the context of meaning Dinosaur - Dinosaur Model: Allosaurus. Oda tends to be pretty consistent.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

In English, Person means Human too because only Persons can be Humans. Can't have a Dog that is a Person, or a Cat that is a Person. Only Humans can be Persons, thus, Hito would also be limited to Humans and imply Humans as the only people capable of being Persons are Humans.

And this is really the only consistent interpretation that makes sense because:

• It's out-rightly stated that Chopper isn't Human.
• Chopper looks nothing like a Human no matter how we try to cut it or slice it.
• Oda also doesn't consider Buddha to be a Human, yet he bares the Hito Hito name, but given that Buddha has intelligence and is a Creature of some sort or belongs to an unidentifiable Species as Oda said, the one thing he most definitely is... is a person.

It therefore means that since Buddha isn't considered Human and Chopper is out-rightly stated not Human, the only thing that logically makes sense and consistently brings everything together without making exceptions is Hito means Person. The only thing the 2 Hito models share is being Persons.

Same thing regarding the Ryu models which can also be said to be Dinosaurs or Dragons. We know full well that none of the are Dragons, therefore, the context is the word Ryu is being used in the context of meaning Dinosaur - Dinosaur Model: Allosaurus. Oda tends to be pretty consistent.

Chopper not looking exactly like human in his human form shouldn't necessarily mean he has a different ability.

If my memory serves me right, Boa sisters in their respective full zoan forms still have arms, which snakes normally don't have.

So Chopper keeping a couple of reindeer attributes in his full Zoan form should be somewhat similar to what happens when Boa sisters transform. Or am I missing something?

Also your first argument doesn't add up (if I understood it correctly). You say hito doesn't mean 'human', but 'person' (it can mean both but it's not important right now).

The thing is Oda couldn't have named the human human fruit anything other than hito hito no mi.

The reason for that is that all DF names follow one pattern. They are two-syllable names. And I mean Japanese syllables, not English syllables.

For example: nikyu-nikyu. Ni + kyu. Two syllables. But ningen-ningen wouldn't fullfil this criteria, because ningen is four syllables in Japanese. Ni + n + ge + n.

So I don't see any other option that Oda could have had for naming this particular fruit.

An argument can be made though, that hito hito no mi is a sort of a general human-like transformation or, as you say, a person person fruit. And that there could be different models, like Buddha, homo-sapiens, long-arm, long-leg etc etc.

Yeah, if that's what you're saying, I can see logic behind that.

 

[Fox666]

Chopper not looking exactly like human in his human form shouldn't necessarily mean he has a different ability.

If my memory serves me right, Boa sisters in their respective full zoan forms still have arms, which snakes normally don't have.

So Chopper keeping a couple of reindeer attributes in his full Zoan form should be somewhat similar to what happens when Boa sisters transform. Or am I missing something?

We have only seen the Boa sisters hybrid form.

However that is a valid point. Would a Zoan user be able to disguise himself among animals? Some of them are really weird.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

We have only seen the Boa sisters hybrid form.

However that is a valid point. Would a Zoan user be able to disguise himself among animals? Some of them are really weird.

Oh shit. I always thought it was their full zoan transformation. My bad!

That refutes my point then.

Zoans rarely use full transformations so we don't have many examples. But Lucci looked like a legit leopard.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Chopper not looking exactly like human in his human form shouldn't necessarily mean he has a different ability.

It just means he's not Human and neither is his ability. It's really that simple, or should be.

If my memory serves me right, Boa sisters in their respective full zoan forms still have arms, which snakes normally don't have.

Having arms or not, they look exactly like snakes and those are hybrid forms.

Also your first argument doesn't add up (if I understood it correctly). You say hito doesn't mean 'human', but 'person' (it can mean both but it's not important right now).

You misunderstood it.

I said while it can mean Human, it also means Person. In the context it's used, it's referring to "Person", not Human.

The reason for that is that all DF names follow one pattern. They are two-syllable names. And I mean Japanese syllables, not English syllables.

For example: nikyu-nikyu. Ni + kyu. Two syllables. But ningen-ningen wouldn't fullfil this criteria, because ningen is four syllables in Japanese. Ni + n + ge + n.

So I don't see any other option that Oda could have had for naming this particular fruit.

I haven't said otherwise about it being English as I was basing it off the Japanese from Observation, regardless, like I said, it's double-syllabic and as you rightly acknowledge, Ningen wouldn't fit the pattern. The pattern is why some abilities are weirdly attributed and look like misnomers.

An argument can be made though, that hito hito no mi is a sort of a general human-like transformation or, as you say, a person person fruit. And that there could be different models, like Buddha, homo-sapiens, long-arm, long-leg etc etc.

Well, in the context it's been used, it simply refers to Person, not to species or "Human-like". Even if it were "Human-like", based on the context of Buddha not being recognised as Species, we're left with Person. And as Oda said:

1. Oda said Chopper is not a Human.
2. Oda said Buddha is not a Human either, but is a Creature of some sort.

We're conclusively left with the fact that both are "Persons" regardless of what Species they are; Person is a term that transcends Species because it only requires intellect to be a person; In our Galaxy, we're the only intellectual Species, thus Person would refer to Human. If an Alien with intellect and intelligence were to appear, they could be named Dave belonging to some weird Species from a weird tribe, they'd be regarded as a Person nonetheless.

Yeah, if that's what you're saying, I can see logic behind that.

What I'm saying is that Hito is referring to Person.

A Person is identified by intellect and has nothing to do with Species. Given that Hito includes Buddha whom Oda isn't classifying as Human and Hito Hito no Mi (Chopper's Ability) is in the same class, it refers to Person. That's all I'm saying.

1. More so, Chopper's "POINTS" are translated as enhancements or strengths. The power of the Hito Hito no Mi is to turn the user into different "Kind of Person" and to be more specific, Persons with Specialities.
2. A Person with good intellect would have their Brain Boosted - Brain Point
3. A person who is physically powerful would have Muscle Boosted - Arm Point translates to Muscle Strengthening as far as Wikia states.
4. A Person who is huge and powerful would have their entire muscle mass boosted - Heavy Point translates to Weight (Muscle mass) strengthening.
5. Given that Chopper is originally a Reindeer, he also has Horn Point, a Person with powerful Horns.

It just enhances the qualities that makes him different kinds of persons. That is the power of the Hito Hito no Mi and is why Oda said a Human who ate the fruit would gain enlightening because Humans are already intellectual persons with potential and ability for great intelligence and to have their intellect further boosted - enlightenment.

 

[McNuss]

I don't even think Chopper looks that inhuman in his pre-skip Human form. The Vivre card explicitly states whether someone is a Long Leg, Long Arm, Fishmen or Mink, but in the case of every other weird humanoid that does not belong to one of the races it is always listed as human. This includes Moria, Masira, Chojo, Hannyabal, etc.

In terms of proportions he is also certainly looked more human then for example the Opera quintuplets or Satori who is round like an orb. Humans can look very weird in One Piece, that's undeniable.

If the Blue (not Blue deep, the old one) and Yellow databooks were available online, we could spare us this entire discussion. I won't upload them because I think that's not legal in my country.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

It just means he's not Human and neither is his ability. It's really that simple, or should be.

Come to think about it Page One's human hair remain even when he's fully transformed. Chopper's fur is essentially the same as hair for humans, am I right?

He has human ears and physique (well, there are people in OP world who have bodies like that). So we're only left with the nose. Which is still strange, I admit.

Having arms or not, they look exactly like snakes and those are hybrid forms.

Correct. They probably 'lose' their arms once fully transformed.

...and is why Oda said a Human who ate the fruit would gain enlightening because Humans are already intellectual persons with potential and ability for great intelligence and to have their intellect further boosted - enlightenment.

D: WHAT HAPPENS IF A PERSON EATS A HITO HITO NO MI?[6]

O: I suppose I should say they "BECOME HUMAN". Uh, I guess you could say that means like becoming an adult, or finding your true spirit or something. So basically, people will live more human-like. Well. I guess you could say that. Or not. Basically, not. Goodbye. (runs away).

I believe what Oda really said was this and he pretty much implies that should a human being eat this fruit absolutely nothing will change.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

D: WHAT HAPPENS IF A PERSON EATS A HITO HITO NO MI?[6]

O: I suppose I should say they "BECOME HUMAN". Uh, I guess you could say that means like becoming an adult, or finding your true spirit or something. So basically, people will live more human-like. Well. I guess you could say that. Or not. Basically, not. Goodbye. (runs away).

I believe what Oda really said was this and he pretty much implies that should a human being eat this fruit absolutely nothing will change.

Question is referring to a Human that ate the fruit.

People don't ask what happens if a Cat ate the Hito Hito no Mi because they think (as most of the community do) that the Cat will turn to a Huamn. I mean for the past decade, people actually believe that Chopper is a Human.

They don't quite understand how it works which is why they ask what happens if a Human ate it because they think since Humans are already Human, it won't have an effect. They think it will be ineffective because they assume the fruit turns people to Humans even though it doesn't.

It turns people into a Person and allows that Person to turn into unique Persons (POINTS).

Humans don't have Horns, so why an ability that turns people to Humans would have "Horn Point" defies any semblance of logic.

The Human would become enhanced given that Brain, Muscle and other anatomical features can be enhanced to make up for the different Points they'd transform into.

He never said nothing will change. He said they will become "Human" because the fruit doesn't change One's Species, it just makes them Persons and a Human is already a Person by default.

More so, he says they become adult or find their spirit, he's speaking of improvement as a Person which is consistent with what the fruit does, it improves aspects of what already exist in said Species, thus why Chopper, a Reindeer with a Horn has a Point called Horn Point. He's not saying nothing happens.

In fact, a Human who eats the ability really doesn't stop being Human. Only difference between a Reindeer and a Human is a Reindeer is not a person given that they're naturally not intellectual to begin with while Humans are.

Come to think about it Page One's human hair remain even when he's fully transformed. Chopper's fur is essentially the same as hair for humans, am I right?

He has human ears and physique (well, there are people in OP world who have bodies like that). So we're only left with the nose. Which is still strange, I admit.

Arlong being a Fishman has ears too that look Human, and he even has hair. It's only natural that given that Humans are the basis for what we identfy as Persons, there'd be anthropomorphic bias. Even Alien movies have this bias. 2 legs (Bipedal), 2 arms for the most part, etc.

Correct. They probably 'lose' their arms once fully transformed.

That seems to be expected in a full-beast transformation.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

Question is referring to a Human that ate the fruit.

It turns people into a Person and allows that Person to turn into unique Persons (POINTS).

Humans don't have Horns, so why an ability that turns people to Humans would have "Horn Point" defies any semblance of logic.

The Human would become enhanced given that Brain, Muscle and other anatomical features can be enhanced to make up for the different Points they'd transform into.

He never said nothing will change. He said they will become "Human" because the fruit doesn't change One's Species, it just makes them Persons and a Human is already a Person by default.

No, he actually said it at the end: I guess you could say that. Or not. Basically, not. Goodbye. (runs away).

Imo, Oda was joking for the most part and people don't find their true spirit etc. once they eat this fruit.

So if your theory is right, then when a fishman or a mink eats hito hito no mi it's not gonna have an effect on them too? Because they are already persons.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

No, he actually said it at the end: I guess you could say that. Or not. Basically, not. Goodbye. (runs away).

No, you're just ignoring everything he said but the final part. The fact he runs away is simply just humour.

Imo, Oda was joking for the most part and people don't find their true spirit etc. once they eat this fruit.

He wasn't because it's clear what the ability does, turns a person into a person and lets them enhance parts of their body that will turn them into specific persons:

1. Reindeers have brains - Brain Point = intellectual ability due to improved cognitive function - Intellectual person
2. Reindeers have muscle - Arm point = strength due to improve muscular density - Muscular person
3. Reindeers have horns - Horn Point = Increased Horn size and strength for whatever horns do such as bashing and digging - Person with powerful Horns which would be benficial to a Reindeer because their horns likely act as a form of their masculinity in proving to be Alpha as is common in the animal world.

It's pretty straight forward.

So if your theory is right, then when a fishman or a mink eats hito hito no mi it's not gonna have an effect on them too? Because they are already persons.

Then you didn't read the Theory right.

It has "POINTS".

If you go to wikia, it gives the definition of points which is: Walk Point (脚力強化ウォークポイント Wōku Pointo?, literally meaning "Walking Power Strengthening"

• Point means enhancement or strength boost.

Therefore, if a Fishman or a Mink ate the Fruit, they'd have POINTS related to their anatomy. Or rather, Strengths/Enhancements related to their anatomy.

Teeth Point for a Shark Fishman, Muscle Point for increased strength, etc.

The ability turns one into a person and it also allows that person to improve features related to their anatomy to transform them into other types of persons of different expression of persons they can become based on their anatomy. It's quite simple and straight-forward.

If they're already persons of Species of intellect, then they will very likely be elevated as the improvement is fundamentally anatomical.

It's not like Chopper just became a Person, the POINTS (which is the power of the ability) is a part of it.

 

[Fox666]

So if your theory is right, then when a fishman or a mink eats hito hito no mi it's not gonna have an effect on them too? Because they are already persons.

Is there a Hito Hito no Mi: Model Fishman?

 

[Deleted member 169696]

No, you're just ignoring everything he said but the final part. The fact he runs away is simply just humour.

Well, I'd rather not ignore what the author of the manga says in an SBS.

He wasn't because it's clear what the ability does, turns a person into a person and lets them enhance parts of their body that will turn them into specific persons:

1. Reindeers have brains - Brain Point = intellectual ability due to improved cognitive function - Intellectual person
2. Reindeers have muscle - Arm point = strength due to improve muscular density - Muscular person
3. Reindeers have horns - Horn Point = Increased Horn size and strength for whatever horns do such as bashing and digging - Person with powerful Horns which would be benficial to a Reindeer because their horns likely act as a form of their masculinity in proving to be Alpha as is common in the animal world.

It's pretty straight forward.

Then you didn't read the Theory right.

It has "POINTS".

If you go to wikia, it gives the definition of points which is: Walk Point (脚力強化ウォークポイント Wōku Pointo?, literally meaning "Walking Power Strengthening"

• Point means enhancement or strength boost.

Therefore, if a Fishman or a Mink ate the Fruit, they'd have POINTS related to their anatomy. Or rather, Strengths/Enhancements related to their anatomy.

Teeth Point for a Shark Fishman, Muscle Point for increased strength, etc.

The ability turns one into a person and it also allows that person to improve features related to their anatomy to transform them into other types of persons of different expression of persons they can become based on their anatomy. It's quite simple and straight-forward.

If they're already persons of Species of intellect, then they will very likely be elevated as the improvement is fundamentally anatomical.

It's not like Chopper just became a Person, the POINTS (which is the power of the ability) is a part of it.

Human beings also have anatomical aspects that they could potentially enhance with this fruit. Don't humans have teeth, ears, vision, muscles etc?

So with this fruit one could potentially create an "ear point" with a much clearer hearing than that of a normal person. Or something like that.

You have already brought up this point in a previous post.

The Human would become enhanced given that Brain, Muscle and other anatomical features can be enhanced to make up for the different Points they'd transform into.

He never said nothing will change. He said they will become "Human" because the fruit doesn't change One's Species, it just makes them Persons and a Human is already a Person by default.

More so, he says they become adult or find their spirit, he's speaking of improvement as a Person which is consistent with what the fruit does, it improves aspects of what already exist in said Species, thus why Chopper, a Reindeer with a Horn has a Point called Horn Point. He's not saying nothing happens.

Maybe you're right. I always thought the brain point was weird.

It's his "hybrid" form right? But he looks nothing like other zoans in their hybrid forms.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 15, 2019, Original Post Date: Aug 15, 2019 ---

Is there a Hito Hito no Mi: Model Fishman?

It would get so complicated actually, should there be such a fruit.

Hito hito no mi: model fishman: model great white shark fishman. Lol.

Or... Hito hito no mi: model mink: model bison mink.

 

[Fox666]

A Fishman having characteristics of a white shark is just genetics, akin to the color of hair.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Human beings also have anatomical aspects that they could potentially enhance with this fruit. Don't humans have teeth, ears, vision, muscles etc?

So with this fruit one could potentially create an "ear point" with a much clearer hearing than that of a normal person. Or something like that.

You have already brought up this point in a previous post.

Exactly this. They could have Ear Point which would boost hearing and such. Points are created by the author depending on their utility. I highly doubt Oda would make nose hair point as it'd be useless, but if an anatomical is boosted and can have utility, it has good chance of being a Point.

Maybe you're right. I always thought the brain point was weird.

It's his "hybrid" form right? But he looks nothing like other zoans in their hybrid forms.

Exactly this.

To be honest, 2/3 of his original forms look like hybrids. Heavy point and Brain point look like "hybrids". Easily could be mistaken as a Hybrid form like was made by Chessmarimo.

Is there a Hito Hito no Mi: Model Fishman?

I don't think a Hito Hito no Mi Model: Fishman could exist in this form, it'd be like having the Neko Neko no Mi Model: Fishman, it makes no sense.

Remember, Hito is being used in the context of meaning person. I don't think it transform people into a Race/Species but into persons, but if there was a Fishman god or entity, then the Hito Hito no Mi Model variations would make sense. There is a god that is known as Dagon that looks like a merman I believe, so Hito Hito no Mi Model: Dagon, could be a thing.

Fishman is a Species just like Dog, Cat, Leopard, etc. A DF that turned someone into a Fishman would very likely be a Fish Model given that they must be from the Fish family just like Leopard is related to the Cat Model as it is from the Cat Family.

 

[Fox666]

It's his "hybrid" form right? But he looks nothing like other zoans in their hybrid forms.

Chopper looks different from most Zoans just like Pierre also does. He's an animal who turns into a Human, so he would look different. It doesn't help that he also makes experiments on his body.

Fishman is a Species just like Dog, Cat, Leopard, etc. A DF that turned someone into a Fishman would very likely be a Fish Model given that they must be from the Fish family just like Leopard is related to the Cat Model as it is from the Cat Family.

I think all races (Fishman, Long-leg, Minks, etc) belong to the Human species.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Chopper looks different from most Zoans just like Pierre also does. He's an animal who turns into a Human, so he would look different. It doesn't help that he also makes experiments on his body.

He always looked different prior to experimentation. Experimenting only allowed him to discover 4 more forms and modify them.

Remember before he became a genius doctor while under Dr. Hiriluk, he was able to transform into 2 forms besides his Reindeer form.

I think all races (Fishman, Long-leg, Minks, etc) belong to the Human species.

I'd imagine they were originally Fishes especially since there are variants whom are Sharks, Octopuses and such who are variants of Fish.

It'd be odd if they belong to the Human Species. More so, they're able to communicate with Fishes they're related to, so they're unlikely to be related to the Human race and are actually Fish. They're a distinct race.

Long-leg tribes and such likely evolved from Humans. Hypothetically, we could have a long-armed people. It'd just require a genetic error or mutation that gives a person extra limbs, and if they have off-spring, people with extra limbs would be perpetuated.

Not much evidence or suggestive hints that make that idea compelling.

 

[Fox666]

Fishman can have offspring or Blood transfusions with Humans, so I assume they are from the same species. The Japanese word used is 種族 (race).

I wouldn't think much about why Fishman look like fish, the Kinokobito look like mushrooms.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Fishman can have offspring or Blood transfusions with Humans, so I assume they are from the same species. The Japanese word used is 種族 (race).

Not necessarily, that doesn't mean they're from the same species. Pretty sure Humans can also use animal organs if they're compatible. Pigs' valves are used in transplants for Humans.

Race also doesn't mean relativity, it just means a Species that is of intellect like Fishman, Mink, etc. We don't call Dogs a Race because they're not intellectual.

I wouldn't think much about why Fishman look like fish, the Kinokobito look like mushrooms.

Well, nothing links Fish and Humans together.

The fact Blood can be transfused is probably just narrative. It's part of the theme in the story regarding racism that just because people look different doesn't mean they should be viewed as unequal or lesser. Fishman can share Blood with Humans is because the point of the story is to show that people of different tribes and race are equal despite their looks.

It's part of the narrative we have today. Black People, White People, Tanned People, regardless of their skin colour or race, we're all the same in blood. That's probably the point One Piece is making in making blood transfusions possible between races. Fishman folk can be likened to some races regarding the prejudice and slavery they've been subjected to just for looking different.

Just like the Fishman are judged and prejudiced for looking like Fish, there was a time the western world viewed Africans as being monkeys and viewing them as less than Human, thus part of why they were mistreated. One Piece makes these references with very subtle representations that aren't so obvious, but in reading the story and relating it to real life and history and the news, it becomes quite clear.

It's no surprise the story is about freedom, equality, companionship, etc.

 

[McNuss]

If you can inbreed you essentially must have a close genetic relationship. Fishmen in real live would be either Homo themselves or at least belong to Hominidae.

Btw technically all Tetrapods are bony fish as they evolved from them. So Humans are fish.