Chapter Tower of God Chapter 447 Spoilers & Discussion

[Turtle hunter]

No matter how long it took White to amass those billion souls, all he'll need now is just external help from whoever (like Karaka who tried feeding him with souls in the Floor of death). Siu said if white had absorbed his last clone and the billion souls in the train HE WOULD HAVE OUTCLASSED Baam back then.

We all know Baam is the mc and anyone stronger than him now will only be for a relatively short while; even Evankhell will one day be weaker than him

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 9, 2019, Original Post Date: Sep 9, 2019 ---

Superior than guadian . You do know that they control shinsoo . So you can't fight them .

 

[Mizaistorm]

do we really have time for another war before rescuing jinsung?at the same time i don't see baam abonding the elder's people although i think the elder will force everyone hand by teleporting the cage to his country forcing yama to come help him even after baam break the curse,sui developed doom backstory so he will stick around their must be a way for him and yama to reconcile.although i'm not sure how this ties in with jinsung rescue mission,somehow their goals muss be alligned.

 

[Wha]

Does SIU even knows what he's doing anymore. Everyone is transforming into an ugly thing and shooting beams of trees or whatever nonsense

I just looked at your profile pic, Bam with his wings and the thorn stabbed inside of him, preparing to shooting a beam.

Karaka said this personally. "Not many Slayers could fight against Zahard's army right now."

When he talked with madoraco, wasn't it stated that most of them are inactive / asleep? So maybe Yama really is one of the weaker slayers, but the only one available right now.

 

[Madelin]

I think it's quite obvious the yet-to-be revealed slayer would be relatively strong as the chapter they will be revealed on.

It doesn't make any sense for them to be revealed late if they are weak/powerless and we know the power level of enemy gets higher the deeper into the chapter

 

[darkraoul]

Imo i see it more like a 3v2 atm

Elder is older so his ancient power is stronger thats why evankhell need Yama as fishermen. imo i think elder beat both b2b in 1v1

 

[Wha]

Elder is older so his ancient power is stronger thats why evankhell need Yama as fishermen. imo i think elder beat both b2b in 1v1

Not sure if it works like that. If Rak's bloodline, by example, is "purer" than the elders, he could have way more power despite of the age difference (although it should take some time to get there, of course).

Look at Yuri. Although she is quite young in ToG standards, her similarity to her head seems stronger than with any other member.


But seeing the elder like that, i remember Jinsung's talk with Maschenny about the ancient beasts hiding in FUG. If there are more than him, FUG is way more powerful than i expected.

 

[paulbee]

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 9, 2019, Original Post Date: Sep 9, 2019 ---

Superior than guadian . You do know that they control shinsoo . So you can't fight them .

Well there was this guy called Enryu.........

 

[O_n_Sly]

Yama looks like Inuyasha not a SS

 

[Vitala]

Well there was this guy called Enryu.........

So now natives one are compared to enryu? If even zahard can't fight a guardian, how will natives one be able to when zahard annihilated them .

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

Perhaps the giant itself COULD. I happen to think it's related to admin, perhaps it was one of them, a child of one, a special/roaming case, etc. Hell, the ORIGINAL giant, which predates everyone seemingly, could have even predated the admin as well. Hell, maybe the giant roamed the floors and budded off admin per floor. Maybe the giant, when full, was unstoppable or unkillable. We just don't know.

The giant was a feature and/or a bug of the tower IMO.

Look how big these releases are. They are massive, easily as big in scale as when Baam was in front of an admin on F2 or Enryu in front of one on FoD.

I'll repeat the FoD admin shapeshifted into similarly sized creatures with no connection or theme. Same as the giant apparently could break into giant, dissimilar animals.

And these releases only represent a fraction of the original giant. Roughly a fifth and that's IF they are the actual original 5, not something watered down.

So now natives one are compared to enryu? If even zahard can't fight a guardian, how will natives one be able to when zahard annihilated them .

Do YOU know what they're supposed to be?

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 9, 2019, Original Post Date: Sep 9, 2019 ---

So now natives one are compared to enryu? If even zahard can't fight a guardian, how will natives one be able to when zahard annihilated them .

Oh, and Zahard has not, in fact, per the storyline thus far, 'annihilated' the original native ones themselves. It's probable that he can't.

Because they approach or exceed admin in power?

 

[Mlu]

Can we talk about how Mado's suit changed colors?

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 9, 2019, Original Post Date: Sep 9, 2019 ---

Posts like this make me wish the forum had a dislike button

Baam is the herald sent by the outer god. A son of two of the original 13 (we only know of one other person like that and she's #7 and locked away cuz of how powerful she was). He's also an irregular who has 1 of the 13 blades, 2 admins inside him, AND 1/2 of the admin slaying thorn (2/4)

He's also a slayer candidate of fug as a regular, who has earned the alliance of 2 slayers and now a third. Yeah ofc you see a lot of high ranker shit around him cuz he's literally go to the places where high rankers congregate. It would be illogical if we didn't see more action.

Do I wish we had more strategy? Sure. I loved the Moon blade and puzzles of before, I'm sure we'll get more of it, but SIU is world building atm

None of these guys can compare to what Urek did. Just putting that out there.

All of these guys will have an uphill fight vs what's to come, so it wont be all easy peasy

Yea the series is definitely going downhill. Sure a bunch of the people fighting right now are high rankers and high rankers should be able to just nuke places but IDK how I feel about this. Even their regular punches are causing huge shockwaves, I thought when Urek did it, it was cause he is an OP character, but seeing pretty much everyone cause massive damage with their attacks makes me wonder how any structure or building ever existed in the tower in the first place.

It would be nice if they were a bit weaker in some ways and would actually need to charge up or something to do the big hits. Right now they are just blasting away and no one seems to even be getting tired or anything.

Man this post is so uninformed though... Reason why HR fights don't happen too often is because of the fact that they do so much damage. From the start this is what was implied, now you just getting to actually see just how crazy their fights are. Which is why floor heads and administrators often step in to stop such fights. White once sacrifed 1billion people to gain his power, that alone should give an idea of how powerful highrankers are and the amount of destructive force they can wield. Funny enough I feel like we actually are yet to see just what HR's can do.

 

[Madelin]

Where in the story does Siu mentioned that Zahard unable to eliminate a guardian?

Hint - nowhere

Does 'being eliminate by Zahard' imply that the native one is weaker than Zahard?

Hint - Nein

For all that we know, native one could be eliminated by the combined effort of few family head, along with treachery or whatever. We've been told that Native One had been cursed, this imply even sorcerers were involved in the genocide.
----------------------------
But I do disagree with 'Khel Hellam giving life' bits of speculation - I'd prefer to think that each native power is conjuring their respective element out of nothing

Khel hellam being nature element
Evie being fire
Rak being earth
-----------------------------
And i still think that Khell and Evie is a crossbreed, part of the native's dying attempt at ensuring the survival of their races. Rak on the other hand is the pure breed native, perhaps his race had gone to isolation long before Jahad did what he did to the native?

Or remnant of Wraithraiser managed to flee into isolation following the genocide

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

I'll take it a step further - what does it mean the Native Ones had 'direct' and 'indirect' descendants?

We have seen 'direct descendants' are purely animal, like Rak. This *probably* is a feature extending to all 'direct' descendants - they are pure-blooded creatures and as such remain looking like creatures.

We have seen 'indirect descendants' that are more humanoid, with weak (comparatively) elemental powers, like Hesse. This *probably* is a feature extending to all 'indirect' descendants - they are creature/human hybrids that give them more humanoid appearances and thus their powers are far weaker than 'directs' (this is canon) as the human blood watered down the powers AND the look (this is uncertain but seems to be the trend so far without exception).

Now. Rak in his 'chibi' state isn't 'true' Rak. He's at least much larger - how he was originally introduced - and there exists the possibility that Rak without the 'curse' on him, lifted, would be even larger.

Nevertheless, chibi or otherwise, how would a human (female assumedly) be able to, ahem, receive such a creature - particularly if GIANT? Now, I've seen some crazy cartoon creations on the interwebs (...) but this doesn't seem possible. Imagine Androssi, arbitrarily, and that bull.... well, yeah.

So the Native Ones themselves and possibly the 'directs' were able to modulate size AT LEAST. Proof is in Rak to some extent. That still doesn't solve the... inter-species-ness of it all. And size manipulation is at least along the lines of shape-shifting, an *ahem* ADMIN ABILITY.

I'd also suggest the Native Ones (and full-blooded descendants?) were ALSO able to shape-shift to humanoids. We see a humanoid that was one of the iterations of creatures in 'Enryu vs the floor admin' battle. So admin can, in fact, simulate humanoids (at least giant ones, if not smaller versions). And, if we count Headon, they can modulate size to normal human dimensions. It's reasonable to think all admin could do both because they can at least shape-shift to humans.

And, if my theory is correct and the Native Ones/Giant are related to/connected to the admin, they should also be able to not only modulate size (we know they can) but also shape-shift as well as there is much overlap in these powers and - if related - it's not unreasonable to expect both to be able to do as much.

Edit: another reason to believe at least the giant itself if not the original Native Ones could shape-shift is the actual result of the creatures that came of it - having nothing to do with each other. While not shape-shifting per se the offspring - as Native Ones - do not appear similar at all to the original giant other than their size. They are all unrelated creatures bearing no resemblance to each other or the original giant. So they can modulate size AND break into unrelated creatures - this is just the smallest bit removed from actual shape-shifting as we have seen the admin do. I bet the giant, as a fellow admin, COULD in fact also shape-shift.

It's the only reasonable way to get half-humanoid hybrids that are the 'indirect descendants'. Which in fact exist.





TL;DR - Native Ones are like the fallen angels, reproducing with humans, to create the 'nephilim' hybrids as 'indirect descendants' (direct would be pure-blood angels, if such a thing were possible...).

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 9, 2019, Original Post Date: Sep 9, 2019 ---

Where in the story does Siu mentioned that Zahard unable to eliminate a guardian?

Hint - nowhere

Does 'being eliminate by Zahard' imply that the native one is weaker than Zahard?

Hint - Nein

For all that we know, native one could be eliminated by the combined effort of few family head, along with treachery or whatever. We've been told that Native One had been cursed, this imply even sorcerers were involved in the genocide.
----------------------------
But I do disagree with 'Khel Hellam giving life' bits of speculation - I'd prefer to think that each native power is conjuring their respective element out of nothing

Khel hellam being nature element
Evie being fire
Rak being earth
-----------------------------
And i still think that Khell and Evie is a crossbreed, part of the native's dying attempt at ensuring the survival of their races. Rak on the other hand is the pure breed native, perhaps his race had gone to isolation long before Jahad did what he did to the native?

Or remnant of Wraithraiser managed to flee into isolation following the genocide

2 points:

- it IS said (in a blog) that Zahard could NEVER kill a guardian no matter how hard he tried
- it is NOT said that the actual Native Ones, the OGs, the progenitors were eliminated, only their descendants (children) were killed and cursed. It's the difference between a FH being killed and just the FH's extended family/children. The later is way easier and the former might be impossible as of right now.

 

[Madelin]

Oh

I'll take it a step further - what does it mean the Native Ones had 'direct' and 'indirect' descendants?

We have seen 'direct descendants' are purely animal, like Rak. This *probably* is a feature extending to all 'direct' descendants - they are pure-blooded creatures and as such remain looking like creatures.

We have seen 'indirect descendants' that are more humanoid, with weak (comparatively) elemental powers, like Hesse. This *probably* is a feature extending to all 'indirect' descendants - they are creature/human hybrids that give them more humanoid appearances and thus their powers are far weaker than 'directs' (this is canon) as the human blood watered down the powers AND the look (this is uncertain but seems to be the trend so far without exception).

Now. Rak in his 'chibi' state isn't 'true' Rak. He's at least much larger - how he was originally introduced - and there exists the possibility that Rak without the 'curse' on him, lifted, would be even larger.

Nevertheless, chibi or otherwise, how would a human (female assumedly) be able to, ahem, receive such a creature - particularly if GIANT? Now, I've seen some crazy cartoon creations on the interwebs (...) but this doesn't seem possible. Imagine Androssi, arbitrarily, and that bull.... well, yeah.

So the Native Ones themselves and possibly the 'directs' were able to modulate size AT LEAST. Proof is in Rak to some extent. That still doesn't solve the... inter-species-ness of it all. And size manipulation is at least along the lines of shape-shifting, an *ahem* ADMIN ABILITY.

I'd also suggest the Native Ones (and full-blooded descendants?) were ALSO able to shape-shift to humanoids. We see a humanoid that was one of the iterations of creatures in 'Enryu vs the floor admin' battle. So admin can, in fact, simulate humanoids (at least giant ones, if not smaller versions). And, if we count Headon, they can modulate size to normal human dimensions. It's reasonable to think all admin could do both because they can at least shape-shift to humans.

And, if my theory is correct and the Native Ones/Giant are related to/connected to the admin, they should also be able to not only modulate size (we know they can) but also shape-shift as well as there is much overlap in these powers and - if related - it's not unreasonable to expect both to be able to do as much.

Edit: another reason to believe at least the giant itself if not the original Native Ones could shape-shift is the actual result of the creatures that came of it - having nothing to do with each other. While not shape-shifting per se the offspring - as Native Ones - do not appear similar at all to the original giant other than their size. They are all unrelated creatures bearing no resemblance to each other or the original giant. So they can modulate size AND break into unrelated creatures - this is just the smallest bit removed from actual shape-shifting as we have seen the admin do. I bet the giant, as a fellow admin, COULD in fact also shape-shift.

It's the only reasonable way to get half-humanoid hybrids that are the 'indirect descendants'. Which in fact exist.





TL;DR - Native Ones are like the fallen angels, reproducing with humans, to create the 'nephilim' hybrids as 'indirect descendants' (direct would be pure-blood angels, if such a thing were possible...).

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 9, 2019, Original Post Date: Sep 9, 2019 ---

2 points:

- it IS said (in a blog) that Zahard could NEVER kill a guardian no matter how hard he tried
- it is NOT said that the actual Native Ones, the OGs, the progenitors were eliminated, only their descendants (children) were killed and cursed. It's the difference between a FH being killed and just the FH's extended family/children. The later is way easier and the former might be impossible as of right now.

I must've missed that Zahard part, will reread tomorrow

Btw, i reread the native one part just now, Data Eduan mentioned ".. Direct descendent from the pure bloodline of the native we all slaughtered, remaining is cursed"

Direct descendent from pure bloodline, is there direct descendent from mixed bloodline?

 

[Sade Morte]

Hmm

Evie, wielder of ancient power has 'Ganesha' as avatar upon release, her attribute is fire

Khell, wielder of ancient power has 'minotaur' as avatar upon release, his attribute is... Nature?

Rak, a native one with ancient power already looking like some kinda avatar, his attribute is earth

Wild theory - native one, realising their eventual demise frantically looking for a way for survival. One of the way is crossbreed

The tier of ancient power would then be like this

Ancient giant being > native one > crossbreed native > crossbreed until native blood diminish

The last type is those regular that we seen previously like that dude that can emboldened himself with mud.

These could mean Rak would have potential far higher than Evie and Khell Hellam, this should be comfortably in line with Baams progress later into the story

Jahad cursed and exterminated the ancient one's. Those who survived have breeding problems, so they cannot make a lot of descendants.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

I must've missed that Zahard part, will reread tomorrow

Btw, i reread the native one part just now, Data Eduan mentioned ".. Direct descendent from the pure bloodline of the native we all slaughtered, remaining is cursed"

Direct descendent from pure bloodline, is there direct descendent from mixed bloodline?

We know there are mixed bloodlines - they are the 'indirect descendants' and have all, so far, been shown to be humanoid - J.M. and Hesse

Native One

Native One(s) (네이티브 원, Neitibeu Won) are beings that are able to rule over the elements in the Tower. There was once a giant in the Tower who split himself into five beings, each with the power to control the elements of the Tower and each were known as a "Native One". The Native Ones had direct...

towerofgod.fandom.com

Jahad cursed and exterminated the ancient one's.[*] Those who survived have breeding problems, so they cannot make a lot of descendants.

*their descendants

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 9, 2019, Original Post Date: Sep 9, 2019 ---

Enryu

Enryu (엔류, Ehn-ryoo) is an Irregular. His status is unknown and he is currently ranked 2nd. He is the first known Irregular to have entered the Tower during Zahard's rule. Enryu is one of the most mysterious characters in the Tower, almost as mysterious as Phantaminum. Currently, Enryu's...

towerofgod.fandom.com

"
Notes and Trivia

• Enryu is the only known person to have ever killed a Guardian in the Tower's history.
  • As this is something that according to SIU not even Zahard is capable of achieving even if he tries with all his power, this feat marks Enryu as the second most powerful being in the whole Tower, with only the Axis Phantaminum being his superior. However, Enryu is currently inactive and therefore this has left Zahard the top Ranker currently active."

 

[N0Obz]

I was reading again, and had an interesting thought. So Bams transformation is Red Thryssa, right? So what if it's not the canine transformation everyone is thinking it is, and Bam is just using it like Hell Joe now. So it's not really the shounenization people are calling it where everyone gets one, but more Bam using more of his power in a new way, kind of like the souls. If he does obtain a full transformation, it will be an upgraded red Thryssa form or something. This is all just a quick theory I had tho.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

I was reading again, and had an interesting thought. So Bams transformation is Red Thryssa, right? So what if it's not the canine transformation everyone is thinking it is, and Bam is just using it like Hell Joe now. So it's not really the shounenization people are calling it, but more Bam using more of his power in a new way, kind of like the souls. If he does obtain a full transformation, it will be an upgraded red Thryssa form or something. This is all just a quick theory I had tho.

Doesn't it seem to be a little bit of both?

 

[Brian Taboada]

That would be terrible. Far higher than Evankhell (Rank 60) or Hellam (seems to be at the same level), et cetera is putting him where? Like top 25? That's getting pretty near into Irregular territory. SIU would be doing a huge disservice to his setting if that were the case.

3 out of the top 3 are not irregulars. And one out of the top ten is an axis. So not unprecedented. However, this whole ranking thing is

This is the biggest news. Seems like the elder is a 2 in 1 deal

Do you think that might be the same for Evankhell? (An Ancient inhabiting him)

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

3 out of the top 3 are not irregulars. And one out of the top ten is an axis. So not unprecedented. However, this whole ranking thing is


Do you think that might be the same for Evankhell? (An Ancient inhabiting him)

Yes. Rak is obviously the outlier to Eduan. I think the curse relates to them having to live in humans as symbiotes. Rak has somehow been able to side-step or escape the curse to some extent.

Kind of like how the 10-tails (giant) was split up (native ones) only to have those, well, giant creatures be subjugated to living in jinchuriki - which is the way we see most if not all of them (again, outside of Rak) exist now.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 9, 2019, Original Post Date: Sep 9, 2019 ---

I mean it's clearly the same thing with EVK - giant creature (bull/elephant) existing inside a humanoid (a... 'khell'? from hell?) doing their bidding and being summoned when called.