One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[jaymizzo]

It’s actually 1 person saying Zoro cant fight yonko commanders without any basis and other people trying to understand why and dispute how significant a different sword from the same grade is. How tf can you say someone just cant fight someone, I would get if anybody would say Zoro cant beat Katakuri and provide some logic why, but we have seen pretty weak YC from BM and WB crew and dont know how strong others are, wtf is he even talking about, sounds like outright trolling so imma stop giving him attention lol.

Sure, I'm the only one who thinks Zoro is not YC level (not that Im just choosing to be vocal in the midst of all this), yet all you have done is simply claim he can. See the manga has not shown that, therefor I don't have to strain myself into proving he can't take them on, its on you to prove why someone who has not been tested at that level can fight at that level.

Am I the only one who considers Enma a higher grade (in essence) than Shusui? Are we forgetting that turning a blade black increases its rank? So Enma unhardened is the same grade as a black Shusui. Zoro turning Enma black makes it higher ranked than Shusui... Does that not mean the sword has more potential?

And weak YC relative to who exactly?

If you can't prove any proof as to where and when Zoro has been tested at that level, don't bother responding with because he can or because Oda can choose to. Find manga evidence to back up your claim. The lack of evidence aids my argument.

 

[Brandish μ]

I think Zoro in the right circumstances can beat a YC, like the one Urogue defeated. I don't find that far-fetched.

 

[King Moe]

It’s actually 1 person saying Zoro cant fight yonko commanders without any basis and other people trying to understand why and dispute how significant a different sword from the same grade is. How tf can you say someone just cant fight someone, I would get if anybody would say Zoro cant beat Katakuri and provide some logic why, but we have seen pretty weak YC from BM and WB crew and dont know how strong others are, wtf is he even talking about, sounds like outright trolling so imma stop giving him attention lol.

I am not trolling and never said Zoro will never reach YC lvl as he will. But it's about putting legit facts instead of hard headcannons. Focus on his performance and how YCs match up. So far got see more before I said he can defeat one cause his past 4 fights haven't been stellar on development.

Enma is like G4 on matching similar drawbacks. We can't pretend that each time Zoro swings it won't hurt him especially his Haki. That gives more struggle to him in long run give his durability feats are no longer same as pre-timeskip.

Going to need to see in his fights before judging especially he is heading to face Orochi for revenge.

 

[HereNThere]

I think Zoro in the right circumstances can beat a YC, like the one Urogue defeated. I don't find that far-fetched.

I don't think anyone is saying it's far fetched, only that we've not seen any proof of Zoro's upper limit being at the level of YC just yet.

 

[jaymizzo]

I don't think anyone is saying it's far fetched, only that we've not seen any proof of Zoro's upper limit being at the level of YC just yet.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

It’s actually 1 person saying Zoro cant fight yonko commanders without any basis and other people trying to understand why and dispute how significant a different sword from the same grade is. How tf can you say someone just cant fight someone, I would get if anybody would say Zoro cant beat Katakuri and provide some logic why, but we have seen pretty weak YC from BM and WB crew and dont know how strong others are, wtf is he even talking about, sounds like outright trolling so imma stop giving him attention lol.

Big Mom didn't have any weak commander. In fact, no YC is weak. The only one of Big Mom's commander to have lost to a Supernova prior to the Luffy debacle was Snack, and that's after defeating high profile Supernovae.

View media item 23013
View media item 23014
The likes of Kid and Apoo lost to Snack. Only Urouge won his fight against Snack and obviously Cracker proved to be too much for him.

So @jaymizzo has a solid point. Zoro isn't at YC level yet until proven so since we can't even put Zoro above Kid, Law, or Urouge.
Though with Enma he should be ranking there but that still depends on feats.

As far as the Whitebeard pirates are concerned. The only true powerhouses there are the first 4 commanders, others are comparable to Big Mom's ministers. So outside Marco, Jozu, Vista and the dead Ace, there's really not a true commander level character on his ship.
Instead of doing what Big Mom did with her less stronger crew members calling them Ministers or something else like Kaido's T6H and Headliners, Whitebeard went and lengthen his commander numbers into divisions.
So, aside from his first 4 commanders, the rest are just meh.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 15, 2019, Original Post Date: Sep 15, 2019 ---

I think Zoro in the right circumstances can beat a YC, like the one Urogue defeated. I don't find that far-fetched.

Maybe current Zoro can defeat Snack, but not the Zoro of Dressrosa.

 

[Brandish μ]

I don't think anyone is saying it's far fetched, only that we've not seen any proof of Zoro's upper limit being at the level of YC just yet.

Yea but that's obvious, to put it bluntly. If we had the proof, there would not be the discussion. edit: there still could be a discussion, but unlikely to be largely speculative.

 

[XXGenesis]

If Zoro is low VC...Which I do agree with
I believe his upper limit to be of that lv. How is a low VC lv character with Flow haki cutting Kaidou pre latest chapter

 

[nik87]

If Zoro is low VC...Which I do agree with
I believe his upper limit to be of that lv. How is a low VC lv character with Flow haki cutting Kaidou pre latest chapter

Remember that his trainer was THE best man in that line of business.

 

[XXGenesis]

Remember that his trainer was THE best man in that line of business.

Huh? What are you trying to say here? Trainer? Mihawk...

Nik87, lol you've been trolling all weekend with Zoro...lml your having a fricking field day with our boi this arc

 

[nik87]

Huh? What are you trying to say here? Trainer? Mihawk...
Nik87, lol you've been trolling all weekend with Zoro...lml your having a fricking field day with our boi this arc

You asked how is low VC lvl, someone who trained under Mihawk himself and 2nd strongest MC gonna cut Kaido... The arc itself will show us how.

 

[XXGenesis]

You asked how is low VC lvl, someone who trained under Mihawk himself and 2nd strongest MC gonna cut Kaido... The arc itself will show us how.

O, nah that's not what I was asking or saying. I was referring to the other dumb thread topic of if Zoro can cut Kaido with Shusui..or better yet could pre Enma Zoro cut Kaido. Since he knows flow...

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

Only urog was told to went against snak ?

Every worst generation member who entered into Big Mom's territory faced a commander.
She always sends out her lowest ranked commander, Snack, to deal with them since they are not worth the effort and it worked every time until Urouge, who defeated Snack.
She made her commanders 3 instead of 4 after Snack's defeat, and then the lowest ranked was Cracker. Then, Luffy came along and defeated Cracker.

It's obvious she takes Luffy seriously out of all the Supernovae since he defeated her strongest commander.

 

[King Moe]

Yea but that's obvious, to put it bluntly. If we had the proof, there would not be the discussion. edit: there still could be a discussion, but unlikely to be largely speculative.

He is heading there, but have to rate him steadily due to his past 4 fights that make him less believable and Enma's weakness as well. We got to see how his fight with Orochi go first off.

 

[Brandish μ]

He is heading there, but have gave to rate him steadily due to his past 4 fights that make him less believable and Enma's weakness as well. We got to see how his fight with Orochi go first off.

Yea I know where you're coming. Just when supernova's like Urogue beat a commander, I think the possibility opens up. I wouldn't have had Urogue above Killer, X Drake etc before that; or Zoro for that matter. That said, Urogue being stronger than Zoro, or having an advantage over the 4th commander is a good reason for that outcome.

I was wondering if YC1-YC3 were distinctively stronger than the rest:
Kaido - has 3 commanders
BigMom - her 4th commander was off-paneled
Whitebeard - Marco, Ace and Jozu; Thatch was dead become of BB. Vista seemed strong though.
Shanks and BB - have similar lineups, with not defined YC1-YC3 afaik.

Luffy will have Zoro, Sanji and Jinbe on one tier, and the others below that. So it's probably more of a balance against the SH crew that the top three commanders are stronger, if they were to battle the SH straight up.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

Yea I know where you're coming. Just when supernova's like Urogue beat a commander, I think the possibility opens up. I wouldn't have had Urogue above Killer, X Drake etc before that; or Zoro for that matter. That said, Urogue being stronger than Zoro, or having an advantage over the 4th commander is a good reason for that outcome.

Actually, during the debut of the Supernovae back in Sabaody, and their individual performance against the Pacifistas.
I always felt Urouge was among the stronger Supernovae and Luffy wasn't a clear no.1.

Back then, I'd rank them like this:

-Luffy
-Kid
-Law
-Drake
-Urouge
-Apoo
-Hawkins
-Zoro
-Killer
-Bege
-Bonney

But right now, it's looking more like:

-Luffy (defeated 2 commanders and is still getting stronger)

-Law (showed matching abilities with a commander level character in Doffy, was ultimately defeated - one of Luffy's 2 major rival)

-Urouge (beat a commander, lost against another)

Edit:

-Kid (defeated by a commander, apparently got stronger in prison along with Luffy, and is one of Luffy's 2 major rival)

-Zoro (drew level with Killer in an unfair duel and is still getting stronger)

-Drake (a high ranker in the Beast Pirate crew, looked good fighting Sanji)

-Apoo (defeated by a commander, seemingly a high ranker in the Beast Pirate crew)

-Hawkins (injured Zoro in a brief contest while looking good)

-Killer (drew level with Zoro even when he had the upper hand)

-Bege (world class defense but no Haki, most likely defeated by a commander)

-Bonney (no info available)

 

[Pirate Queen]

Actually, during the debut of the Supernovae back in Sabaody, and their individual performance against the Pacifistas.
I always felt Urouge was among the stronger Supernovae and Luffy wasn't a clear no.1.

Back then, I'd rank them like this:

-Luffy
-Kid
-Law
-Drake
-Urouge
-Apoo
-Hawkins
-Zoro
-Killer
-Bege
-Bonney

But right now, it's looking more like:

-Luffy (defeated 2 commanders and is still getting stronger)

-Law (showed matching abilities with a commander level character in Doffy, was ultimately defeated - one of Luffy's 2 major rival)

-Urouge (beat a commander, lost against another)

-Kid (defeated by a commander, one of Luffy's 2 major rivals)

-Zoro (drew level with Killer in an unfair duel and is still getting stronger)

-Drake (a high ranker in the Beast Pirate crew, looked good fighting Sanji)

-Apoo (defeated by a commander, seemingly a high ranker in the Beast Pirate crew)

-Hawkins (injured Zoro in a brief contest while looking good)

-Killer (drew level with Zoro even when he had the upper hand)

-Bege (world class defense but no Haki, most likely defeated by a commander)

-Bonney (no info available)

Luffy
Kidd
Urouge
Zoro = Law
Xdrake = Apoo
Hawkins
Bege
Killer
Bonney

My opinion of course.

I like your too tho

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

Ppl still unestimating zoro

You think?
Characters are ranked majorly based on feats and abilities. Right now, Zoro might seem underestimated but I'm betting he'll be shooting super high in the Supernovae rankings when he gets his feats. He's among those who haven't faced a Yonko commander level opponent in battle.

Forget the Fujitora BS. Even a wounded and healing Luffy dueled and got praised by Fuji as being a threat to Yonkos. Turned out he wasn't (at the time). And that was a recuperating Luffy
Something must be wrong with Fujitora, is he blind?
Ah! That must be it.

Like Nik, I'm predicting Zoro at the no.2 spot after the war.
Unlike Nik, I definitely do not think he's worthy of no.2 right now, whether in the Supernovae, strongest swordsman, alliance power rankings, or any other ranking to be frank. Not yet.

 

[Shasha23]

Ppl still unestimating zoro

Each strawhat are probably already best in what they do. At least in my opinion thats the idea.

Zoro have to still prove himself by defeating hawkeye until that he cannot lose. So its safe to say he will beat anybody, even luffy.

My opinions are biased on the story, thats how i think it goes.

Now they will start attacking you for speaking sense

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

Ppl still unestimating zoro

Each strawhat are probably already best in what they do. At least in my opinion thats the idea.

Zoro have to still prove himself by defeating hawkeye until that he cannot lose. So its safe to say he will beat anybody, even luffy.

My opinions are biased on the story, thats how i think it goes.

Yes Zoro can't lose to anybody in the story until he challenges Mihawk for number 1 swordsman.
How does that make him able to beat Luffy?

IIRC Katakuri was super duper strong and undefeated (until Luffy happened) yet he wasn't the strongest in his crew. Big Mom is!
Can he defeat Big Mom in combat? Hell no!
But he was nonetheless undefeated.

If a mere Yonko's RHM can achieve that, why not the future PK's RHM?
But achieving that doesn't make him automatically able to beat the strongest in the crew.
I mean no offense, but that's nonsense logic mate.
Zoro has to surpass Luffy first to be able to beat him and that's not happening. Not in this Manga as far as we know.

He's aiming for strongest swordsman in the world and that's nothing compared to the strongest pirate in the seas.
It's not even an argument. Zoro lost the fight with Luffy the moment he chose to pursue that dream.
Now this! This is logic.