One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[afromarco005]

What if zoro was stronger than luffy until his fight with dogtooth ?

Zoro have not yet shown the limit of his strength after timeskip ?

Maybe that is so because it would make luffy look bad in comparison. They did not even tell him about the contest in the colosseum.


Did sabo seem stronger than luffy in dressrosa ?

In my opinion he did.

It would be a bold move for Oda to break his well established "Luffy>Zoro>>Sanji" rule and have a subordinate be stronger than his captain.

Its not impossible but very unlikely imo.

Yes I feel like sabo was stronger than Luffy in dressrossa even with gear 4th, however post Udon Luffy >Sabo imo.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 17, 2019, Original Post Date: Sep 17, 2019 ---

Not at all, you're having it backwards. How could Zoro be stronger during the new world saga when it has already been stated Luffy was stronger? You get the irony in your statement, right?

The gap was getting too big, that's why he had to be given the Enma. It literarily sucks out haki at the detriment of wielder's physical well being; think you're greatly underestimating Enma here.

So you are implying that Enma is a way better than the legendary Black blade Shusui a higher grade sword?

What I am trying to say is that Given how little Zoro improved during the new world, if just getting enma makes him as strong or on a comparable level as Udon Luffy then it means that Zoro was stronger than his capitain all along which I highly doubt.

Hence why I think that Zoro </=Yonko commander even with Enma. However I believe that Zoro will have a Katakuri like fight and improve during the battle eventually surpassing his limits.

 

[Shasha23]

Not at all, you're having it backwards. How could Zoro be stronger during the new world saga when it has already been stated Luffy was stronger? You get the irony in your statement, right?

The gap was getting too big, that's why he had to be given the Enma. It literarily sucks out haki at the detriment of wielder's physical well being; think you're greatly underestimating Enma here.

Who stated this?
Maybe i dont get what you're trying to say with this, can you rephrase your statement

The thing is 1 sword cant magically get him to a point where he cant beat King if before he was weaker than Doffy, what afro(i think) is saying is that Zoro after time skip he was stronger than Luffy but as Luffy fought and pushed himself, he got more used to G4 and strengthened his haki and by the end of his fight with Katakuri he was number 1 again, since if its not like this a Zoro was weaker than Doffy enma shouldnt be able to boost him to a point of being weaker than Doffy to being stronger than Katakuri.

 

[nik87]

The red scabbards, the marines/former WBP and Stealth black baby.
Nik let's be honest we both know that Luffy is out of Zoro's league right now.

Zoro already has portrayal that places him above Scabbards...
There are no marines/former WB in Wano and with Stealth black baby taking out one, there are still 3 commanders left to take on.
Luffy wont be dealing with commanders here, imo so him being out of Zoro's league or not isnt really of importance here.

 

[kcd]

Hence why I think that Zoro </=Yonko commander even with Enma. However I believe that Zoro will have a Katakuri like fight and improve during the battle eventually surpassing his limits.

OK, if you say so.

My logic is, since Luffy could play with commanders before this particular armament haki power up, I believe Zoro can fight them as well since he has always been close to Luffy in strength.
And of course, he would also grow stronger too during the fight.

Who stated this?
Maybe i dont get what you're trying to say with this, can you rephrase your statement.

It was stated in Zoro's vivre card that he was the strongest in the crew after his captain.

 

[triniman121]

Luffy possibly won't fight with any commanders. He already fought them and clearly already beaten the right hand of one Yonkou. At this point they would just get in the way. Oda historically uses someone strong to display Luffy's new powers so there is a possibility he fights a YC but I doubt it. I think the YC will be used to improve the other characters like Zoro, Sanji, Law who haven't been tested or pushed to the brink yet. If anything I see Luffy taking down an executive level/ Number in his base form with his new Haki abilities.

Luffy/Zoro debates are always entertaining to observe however, I think you have to look at the journey of Luffy compared to the rest of the straw hats after Sabaody Archipelago Arc. While everyone got teleported, Luffy went to Amazon Lilly, then broke into Impel Down where he almost died, broke out of Impel down and joined the War during the Marineford Arc. Marineford Arc Luffy would be stronger than Sabaody Archipelago Arc Luffy.

Followed the two year skip Luffy -> Fishman Island -> Punk Hazard Arc -> Dressrosa Arc -> Whole Cake Arc -> Wano Arc. At each island or place luffy lists we can assume he got stronger while being tested to his limits in every way possible. Ex: Poison antibodies, All forms of Haki, Core Strength (sea stone handcuffs) and Devil Fruit.

Zoro -> Fishman Island -> Punk Hazard Arc -> Dressrosa Arc -> Wano Arc

This is the first time since Enies Lobby where all the Straw Hats are going to be tested outside of Luffy to push past their own limits. Zoro including.

 

[Shasha23]

It was stated in Zoro's vivre card that he was the strongest in the crew after his captain.

Didnt those come out after WCI

 

[kcd]

Didnt those come out after WCI

The card said "being the second strongest Strawhat, he usually fights the second strongest villain."

What do you think that implies? Or do you think Zoro became second strongest after whole cake island?

 

[Shasha23]

The card said "being the second strongest Strawhat, he usually fights the second strongest villain."

What do you think that implies? Or do you think Zoro became second strongest after whole cake island?

No one is saying Zoro is not second strongest in the crew, anyone who thinks otherwise is trolling, but read what we are saying before you quote people on things that arent even relevant to what they said!

 

[kcd]

No one is saying Zoro is not second strongest in the crew, anyone who thinks otherwise is trolling, but read what we are saying before you quote people on things that arent even relevant to what they said!

What do you mean?

Weren't you and Afromarco insinuating Zoro was stronger than Luffy in the new world? But then after Luffy fought so many people, he then became stronger than Zoro?

Or was it just Afromarco? Sorry then, it was an oversight. My bad!

 

[Shasha23]

Before you give me advice next time, give yourself first. Read your post below:

Just admit your in the wrong an move on please

Like I said, either one or the both of insinuated something; I was trying to debunk it.

Afromarco was saying:
If the sword gets Zoro to Luffy's Level, then it means Zoro was stronger than Luffy in the new world.
He also said, since that may not be the case, then Enma didn't take Zoro to Luffy's level. I was trying to point out that Luffy has always been stronger.

That was what we were discussing before you butt in. Don't mean to sound rude in case it sounded that way.

You cant debunk something with information from after the fact, and then try and take the high road when you called up on it!

You clearly failed to see the point of why im pointing out the fact that Enma cant boost Zoro from weaker than Doffy to stronger than Katakuri, it doesnt make sense

 

[kcd]

I think katakuri might be bad matchup for zoro. Cracker would be better.

Lol, Cracker would be worst! You also think it's easier to cut than break those hard biscuits huh?

 

[Fox666]

Not sure what the point of discussion here is.

Enma relies on the user own reserve of Haki to make them stronger than normal. It's like the Kaio-ken, or any other ability in Shonen that multiplies someone power but with some drawback.

I do not expect Zoro to fight a Yonko commander this arc. His last opponent, Pica, was nowhere close to that level. I don't see the progression. Besides which opponent would be left if Zoro defeated a Yonko commander? Only Mihawk himself.

Shiryu is also an obvious rival for Zoro in the future. He's the Yonko commander that Zoro will have to surpass, not someone in Wano. And after Shiryu, Zoro will challenge Mihawk.

 

[Shasha23]

Not sure what the point of discussion here is.

Enma relies on the user own reserve of Haki to make them stronger than normal. It's like the Kaio-ken, or any other ability in Shonen that multiplies someone power but with some drawback.

I do not expect Zoro to fight a Yonko commander this arc. His last opponent, Pica, was nowhere close to that level. I don't see the progression. Besides which opponent would be left if Zoro defeated a Yonko commander? Only Mihawk himself.

Shiryu is also an obvious rival for Zoro in the future. He's the Yonko commander that Zoro will have to surpass, not someone in Wano. And after Shiryu, Zoro will challenge Mihawk.

Enma is nothing like Kaio-ken and its also not a strength multiplier, powers like that are the Raid Suit and Gears, Enma only boosts attack power not any other stat!

If you dont expect Zoro to fight king who do you think he will fight?

Zoro will first have to surpass Shanks before Mihawk fights him again.

 

[nik87]

I'll remember all this Zoro doubt and make sure to remind you after Wano is done.

 

[Fox666]

If you dont expect Zoro to fight king who do you think he will fight?

There are too many allies in this arc who are strong enough to fight the Yonko commander (like Law, Jinbe or the Scabbards) for Zoro to have to deal with them.

It seems more logical if Zoro opponents was someone like Page One or Perosperos, who I'm sure could wipe the floor with Pica. There are also those of unknown strength, like the Mimawarigumi, Numbers, among others. Even Orochi could be stronger than he appears.

 

[Shasha23]

There are too many allies in this arc who are strong enough to fight the Yonko commander (like Law, Jinbe or the Scabbards) for Zoro to have to deal with them.

It seems more logical if Zoro opponents was someone like Page One or Perosperos, who I'm sure could wipe the floor with Pica. There are also those of unknown strength, like the Mimawarigumi, Numbers, among others. Even Orochi could be stronger than he appears.

Zoro always fights the second strongest of the enemies i dont see that changing, but what makes you think Oda will just have Zoro fight some headliners and break from tradition

 

[M3J]

unless Zoro can do with other swords what he did with Enma, it's a powerup. Sure there's a drawback to it (which doesn't seem to be long-term), but he gets one hell of a cutting power... unless he could already do that. Would cutting the stones to get to Pica count?

 

[Fox666]

Zoro always fights the second strongest of the enemies i dont see that changing, but what makes you think Oda will just have Zoro fight some headliners and break from tradition

Because he has broke this tradition more than he followed it by now?

Besides Big Mom is the 2nd strongest so far...

 

[Shasha23]

Because he has broke this tradition more than he followed it by now?

Besides Big Mom is the 2nd strongest so far...

He has never, he has always been fighting the second strongest of the enemies so far, so i don't see him fighting some nobody, he will fight King.

I don't see Linlin being a factor in the war between the Beast Pirates and the Strawhat Pirates

 

[Fox666]

Assuming "2nd strongest" also includes a group (i.e. any of Enel's priests count)...

- Zoro fought against Mr. 1 in Arabasta, despite Smoker being around.

- Zoro fought Kuma in Thriller Bark, who was the 1st strongest.

- Things got way out of hand in Shabondy.

- Zoro fought against Zeo in Fishman Island, the 2nd strongest was obviously Wadatsumi.

- Zoro fought against Monet in Punk Hazard, who was the 3rd strongest (behind Ceasar and Vergo).

- Zoro fought against Pica in Dressrosa, despite Fujitora being around (if not stronger than Doflamingo himself).

- Zoro was not in the Whole Cake Island team.