One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[HereNThere]

Do Luffy's wins over higher level Pirates than himself speak more to Luffy's stunning growth as a shounen protagonist? What do you take into account? The fact that Crocodile, Katakuri.. even Kaido no longer live their lives battle to battle and have become COMPLACENT in their roles in the One Piece Verse?

For example, Mihawk spent his youth searching out swordsmen to fight and now that there is no one left he just sits around drinking wine?

Have top tiers gotten rusty? Now that Luffy has shaken the seas, are they forced to remember why they were considered the best in the first place?

Hancock's own words at the end of the latest chapter speak to this

Are Luffy's wins (tho no less impressive) a combination of his stunning growth + a decline of worthy opponents for said Pirates to hone their skills + constantly underestimating a "rookie pirate" that only took to the seas 2 years prior?

Is it possible Kaido losses partly because he has forgotten the strength + hunger + and willpower of those trying to climb to the top?

Are we seeing Prime Kaido? Or are we seeing a Kaido who has lost his drive and just wants the world to end while he drinks himself into a stupor? Are we seeing both?

Let's disregard plot for the sake of this discussion, while I do understand plot being a central fact in discussion like these.

This is certainly something that has crossed my mind every once and a while.

I do think that some of the top tiers had indeed gotten complacent in their status and got super rusty. But that was only for the first part of the story. As we get later in the series, I think it goes down.

Moriah was a clear example of this and got booted from the Shichibukai because of it.

Crocodile, I believe, was moreso him underestimating Luffy rather than him being completely complacent. He actually would've killed Luffy all three times in their fight had it not been for outside intervention and some great luck during the second fight. There is still some rust to probably account for as he was in the weakest sea and had a good thing going on for years, but he bounced back incredibly quick by the time Marineford rolled around. He should be impressive when he finally shows back up.

Doffy was basically Crocoboy 2.0 and was super cocky against both Luffy and Law and underestimated what they could do. It's funny, because he did acknowledge that they were strong, but he still didn't take them seriously enough to end them as quickly as he should have.

As for the Yonkou (their crews included), I think they are far from complacent. They live in the strongest seas and, while they rule, they are constantly being challenged by upstarts, the marines, and the general threat of other Yonkou.

Katakuri took Luffy deadly seriously and nearly killed him several times. If anything, his growing respect for Luffy is what saved Luffy from being utterly obliterated by him. He gave Luffy the chance to grow so he could see it. Hell, I think Katakuri probably could've won the fight if he wanted too.

Mihawk is like Zoro, so I doubt he'd let his skills get rusty.

Kaido still has that hunger. That's the whole reason why he's trying to create his army of zoans. Kaido is at the peak and one of the main obstacles in Luffy's and every other pirates path because he and the other Yonkou are the closest to becoming the Pirate King. Kaido's loss will be because he'll, most likely, be going up against a group of kids who's hunger for the title matches his own and they won't give up. Probably some other shenanigans involved as well, but it won't be because of he has a lack of willpower or because he's rusty. I think that'd be a cop out considering where he's at.

 

[Shasha23]

Nope. The 2nd strongest was Vergo!

Vergo was not the 2nd strongest, also he was not on Dressrosa for the fight!

 

[McNuss]

Vergo was not the 2nd strongest, also he was not on Dressrosa for the fight!

Pretty sure he was. Pica is just destructive power but no raffinesse, no actual fighting skill. In the end, Pica barely injured Zoro, and I don't think he could injure Smoker or Sanji either as they are too fast.

 

[Shasha23]

Pretty sure he was. Pica is just destructive power but no raffinesse, no actual fighting skill. In the end, Pica barely injured Zoro, and I don't think he could injure Smoker or Sanji either as they are too fast.

Nope, thats just what you want but it doesnt make it true!
Vergo was never 2nd in strength and we have Distractive feats from Pica and Diamante that put anything he had done to shame.
You think Pica was not fast enough but guess what, Smoker and Sanji would be helpless before him since they have no way to overcome his ability, it would only be a matter of time before they couldnt outrun his city-sized punches, lets not forget once Pica is merged with the stones he could travel from the lower levels of the mountain to the sunflower field back to his sone mecha all before Zoro could do anything.

 

[McNuss]

Nope, thats just what you want but it doesnt make it true!
Vergo was never 2nd in strength and we have Distractive feats from Pica and Diamante that put anything he had done to shame.
You think Pica was not fast enough but guess what, Smoker and Sanji would be helpless before him since they have no way to overcome his ability, it would only be a matter of time before they couldnt outrun his city-sized punches, lets not forget once Pica is merged with the stones he could travel from the lower levels of the mountain to the sunflower field back to his sone mecha all before Zoro could do anything.

Smoker and Sanji can fly at high speed in what universe does Pica ever catch them? He only rarely got Zoro who has zero movement techniques. Sanji has has enough endurance to run for days and Smoker is so fast that someone who runs at his flight speed sets the ground on fire.

Diamante has better feats? Diamante's cuts are what Zoro already could do pre-skip (Giant Jack). You think Preskip Zoro would beat Vergo, despite the fact that Luffy got owned by Vice Admirals pre-ts?

If you have to start your argumentation by saying the others arguments are just wishful thinking, well that just means your own argumentation isn't very convincing. It is a very bad strategy.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Yeah, there no concrete evidence that Pica>Vergo

We have every reason to assume they are closer to being equals, given their positions and abilities

 

[Shasha23]

Smoker and Sanji can fly at high speed in what universe does Pica ever catch them? He only rarely got Zoro who has zero movement techniques. Sanji has has enough endurance to run for days and Smoker is so fast that someone who runs at his flight speed sets the ground on fire.

Diamante has better feats? Diamante's cuts are what Zoro already could do pre-skip (Giant Jack). You think Preskip Zoro would beat Vergo, despite the fact that Luffy got owned by Vice Admirals pre-ts?

If you have to start your argumentation by saying the others arguments are just wishful thinking, well that just means your own argumentation isn't very convincing. It is a very bad strategy.

Pica moved from the bottom of the plateau where he was fighting Zoro to the sunflower field after Diamante was defeated, Smoker and Sanji have never shown to be able to move that fast!

Go read the manga for the fight the anime downplayed his abilities, why are you comparing pre-timeskip Luffy and Zoro feats and bringing them up? thats just stupid!

What's wrong in me stating this obvious fact that your argument is wishful thinking? there is no manga panel saying he is 2nd strongest and every other panel in Dressrosa just shows how delusional saying Vergo is 2nd strongest is, since other characters showed better feats proving they were stronger.

 

[McNuss]

Pica moved from the bottom of the plateau where he was fighting Zoro to the sunflower field after Diamante was defeated, Smoker and Sanji have never shown to be able to move that fast!

Go read the manga for the fight the anime downplayed his abilities, why are you comparing pre-timeskip Luffy and Zoro feats and bringing them up? thats just stupid!

What's wrong in me stating this obvious fact that your argument is wishful thinking? there is no manga panel saying he is 2nd strongest and every other panel in Dressrosa just shows how delusional saying Vergo is 2nd strongest is, since other characters showed better feats proving they were stronger.

Pica can move fast inside the stone. The stone itself was never shown to be fast.

By the way I never watched the Anime after elementary school and read this manga for almost 20 years.

But you know what I don't want to be called stupid or delusional and I don't think it is allowed on this board to call others as such.

 

[Shasha23]

Pica can move fast inside the stone. The stone itself was never shown to be fast.

By the way I never watched the Anime after elementary school and read this manga for almost 20 years.

But you know what I don't want to be called stupid or delusional and I don't think it is allowed on this board to call others as such.

Yes he can move fast within the stone and he had merged with Dressrosa meaning he can move anywhere in the country almost instantaneously, he can pop out anywhere and attack and disappear before you can do anything.

Then you should have seen that Diamante's half-moon attack was far above anything Zoro did pre time skip

I didnt call you stupid, called a childish comparison like that stupid and delusional! thankfully our OP threads are not rated PEGI7 like BnHA and the like

 

[desin24]

Moderator Notice:

Please keep in mind to keep the tone of your posts appropriate just as you do with your choice of words. This is a discussion thread and as such the point of it is a civil discussion. Getting confrontational or calling names whether direct or indirect does not further any discussion. ~ desin24

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

Vergo was not the 2nd strongest, also he was not on Dressrosa for the fight!

You never restricted it to Dressrosa only so it's seemingly your fault.Youare just mentioned the Dressrosa bit now.

That aside though, Vergo no doubt was the strongest member of the Donquixote family after Dofy himself. The following scenarios implied it:

View media item 23037
View media item 23038
View media item 23039
The fact that this especially was coming from Dofy himself proves it:
View media item 23040
To say Law is nothing compared to Vergo even while aware of Law's Shichibukai status (which is a strong indication of strength) and his hax DF says a lot about how Dofy views Vergo's strength.
He even expected Vergo's Haki to be powerful enough to stop Laws Ope Ope no mi.
I've not seen Dofy say this or anything remotely close to it about his other subordinates.

 

[Shasha23]

You never restricted it to Dressrosa only so it's seemingly your fault.Youare just mentioned the Dressrosa bit now.

That aside though, Vergo no doubt was the strongest member of the Donquixote family after Dofy himself. The following scenarios implied it:

View media item 23037
View media item 23038
View media item 23039
The fact that this especially was coming from Dofy himself proves it:
View media item 23040
To say Law is nothing compared to Vergo even while aware of Law's Shichibukai status (which is a strong indication of strength) and his hax DF says a lot about how Dofy views Vergo's strength.
He even expected Vergo's Haki to be powerful enough to stop Laws Ope Ope no mi.
I've not seen Dofy say this or anything remotely close to it about his other subordinates.

I seem to remember saying their finall fights, and that Luffy will fight the leader and Zoro fights the 2nd strongest

Vergo was not the 2nd strongest just because he was called strong by fodder like Corazon doesnt mean he is 2nd strongest, people also sid once Pica steps into the fight they will all lose, Law said laughing at Pica means death, everyone on the island feared Pica, Trebol claimed he was the 2nd in comand, etc that doesnt make it fact.

He talked up Vergo and down played Law and then next panel Law one shots, Doffy was just an ignorant idiot who thought Vergo can beat Law or that Luffy cant beat Diamante, taking his word as absulute fact is just a NO NO.

"I've not seen Dofy say this or anything remotely close to it about his other subordinates."

He said Luffy was stronger than Law and expected Diamante to beat him! which should tell you a lot!!!!!!

 

[Fox666]

He said Luffy was stronger than Law and expected Diamante to beat him! which should tell you a lot!!!!!!

Do you have the exact line about Doflamingo "expecting Diamante to beat Luffy"?

IMHO the difference between Vergo and the 3 executives is obvious. While the other 3 are around the same level, Vergo is in a different league.

Here's the list of feats of Vergo:

Doflamingo said Law was no match for Vergo, and that Law ability would be useless against Vergo's Haki. Doflamingo would never say something like that about the other 3 executives.

Spoiler

In fact Doflamingo was scared of letting Trebol get close to Law. This is the opposite reaction he had to Vergo.

Spoiler

Vergo kicked the ass of Sanji and Smoker. The other 3 executives could never do that.

Spoiler

Vergo was also a formidable opponent against Law. It was an unfair fight because he got Law's heart. But Vergo still tanked Law attacks, and he even outspeed Law to get his heart back. That's something the other 3 executives would not be capable of.

Spoiler

Ceasar also called Vergo a monster.

Spoiler

Ceasar himself is quite powerfull. Maybe he could even put a fight against the other 3 executives.

 

[Fox666]

I see ceasar as similar character that caribou.

I don't think that's fair to Ceasar. He was just unlucky to have Luffy as his opponent.

Ceasar got quite a few techniques on his arsenal and that "lightsaber" sword. Luffy passed out once because he lowered his guard. Law even removed his seastone handcuffs when they were crossing the bridge so he could fight.

Caribou was just a joke...

 

[Shasha23]

Do you have the exact line about Doflamingo "expecting Diamante to beat Luffy"?

IMHO the difference between Vergo and the 3 executives is obvious. While the other 3 are around the same level, Vergo is in a different league.

Here's the list of feats of Vergo:

Doflamingo said Law was no match for Vergo, and that Law ability would be useless against Vergo's Haki. Doflamingo would never say something like that about the other 3 executives.

Spoiler

In fact Doflamingo was scared of letting Trebol get close to Law. This is the opposite reaction he had to Vergo.

Spoiler

Vergo kicked the ass of Sanji and Smoker. The other 3 executives could never do that.

Spoiler

Vergo was also a formidable opponent against Law. It was an unfair fight because he got Law's heart. But Vergo still tanked Law attacks, and he even outspeed Law to get his heart back. That's something the other 3 executives would not be capable of.

Spoiler

Ceasar also called Vergo a monster.

Spoiler

Ceasar himself is quite powerfull. Maybe he could even put a fight against the other 3 executives.

Its his whole reason for giving the mera mera no mi to Diamante so Luffy can go fight for it so he can lose, i cant remember but i think the time he said Luffy was a league above Law was when he was talking to Vergo, Monet and CC about Luffy having CoC.

Yes in your opinion he is but manga feats say he isnt, even Doffy believed Diamante can beat Luffy who he said was stronger than Law the same Law who just beat Vergo with little to no effort.

We didnt see Smoker and Sanji vs the others so its an unfair comparison, but i will go back to feats and say while the both would easily defeat Trebol i cant say the same for Diamante and Pica who have better feats than Vergo.
Law's attacks aren't that strong, countershock is a shitty attack that even internally injured Doffy didnt care much about, Law's attacks are more hex ment to OHKO all his not OHKO attacks are laughable.

Yes CC called Vergo a monster but all the other executives feared Pica, dont see how that is relevant, CC is not powerful once you know his ability he is trash, base Luffy could have OHKO him anytime if he was serious enough, no way CC stands a chance on Vergo, Pica and Diamante, i exclude Trebol because his showing was poor and his feats are trash no to forget CC's ability would hard counter him

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

everyone on the island feared Pica,

Everyone? Really? I don't recall Luffy, Law, Zoro, Robin, to name a few, fearing Pica or acknowledging that they feared Pica.

Instead, I'll assume by everyone you mean the majority of people which still proves nothing since all members of the family are obviously feared.

Law said laughing at Pica means death

Are u kidding me? You are using this to prove Pica is 2nd strongest?
Well, sorry to bust your bubbles but laughing at Pica is a well known abomination in their crew. Even a fellow comrade would be killed (and not necessarily by Pica) so imagine what they'd do to an outsider or ordinary citizen?
Laughing at Pica is like going against Doflamingo. It's Doffy who made that rule and whoever does that will be punished by death.
Did you miss what Buffalo said?
View media item 23041"they nearly tortured me to death" was his word not "he" to mean Pica. It's a family rule so your point here is debunked.

I seem to remember saying their finall fights, and that Luffy will fight the leader and Zoro fights the 2nd strongest

Head cannon!
I just recently read the Dressrosa arc and found nothing like this. You should probably do the same. I bet it's been a while.

He said Luffy was stronger than Law and expected Diamante to beat him! which should tell you a lot!

You need to back this up cos I'm pretty sure you've misquoted this part.

 

[Shasha23]

Everyone? Really? I don't recall Luffy, Law, Zoro, Robin, to name a few, fearing Pica or acknowledging that they feared Pica.

Instead, I'll assume by everyone you mean the majority of people which still proves nothing since all members of the family are obviously feared.



Are u kidding me? You are using this to prove Pica is 2nd strongest?
Well, sorry to bust your bubbles but laughing at Pica is a well known abomination in their crew. Even a fellow comrade would be killed (and not necessarily by Pica) so imagine what they'd do to an outsider or ordinary citizen?
Laughing at Pica is like going against Doflamingo. It's Doffy who made that rule and whoever does that will be punished by death.
Did you miss what Buffalo said?
View media item 23041"they nearly tortured me to death" was his word not "he" to mean Pica. It's a family rule so your point here is debunked.




Head cannon!
I just recently read the Dressrosa arc and found nothing like this. You should probably do the same. I bet it's been a while.




You need to back this up cos I'm pretty sure you've misquoted this part.

Yes by everyone i meant the majority of the country once he went full stone mecha, even Robin was afraid/concent

Yes Pica on Dressrosa was the 2nd strongest, who else was stronger...Diamante, Trebol, Lao G, Gladius? nope it was Pica

Law represents Zoro and Luffy for laughing at Pica, you showing me one character statement doesnt mean debunk anything or are you saying Law was wrong?

Read PH, Doffy informs his underlings to be weary of Luffy since he is of a higher caliber than Law because he possesses CoC

I didnt misquote you in any way, i was making a point to you sa to how Doffy stupidly talked up his cre3w when they weren't even strong to handle business to begin with.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

Read PH, Doffy informs his underlings to be weary of Luffy since he is of a higher caliber than Law because he possesses CoC

I'm not talking about Luffy been superior to Law. I'm talking about your statement after that where you claim Diamante was expected to beat Luffy.
That's what I'm asking you to back up and you sure as hell better do.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 26, 2019, Original Post Date: Sep 26, 2019 ---

Yes Pica on Dressrosa was the 2nd strongest, who else was stronger...Diamante, Trebol, Lao G, Gladius? nope it was Pica

He wasn't second strongest at any point. He was number 1 most destructive guy.
You are most likely confusing these two things.

 

[nik87]

There is no Doffy subordinate who can take out Pica in stone form while Pica can take all of them out.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

Law represents Zoro and Luffy for laughing at Pica, you showing me one character statement doesnt mean debunk anything or are you saying Law was wrong?

Like I said. You've definitely misread or misunderstood (in this case).
Law reprimanded both Zoro and Luffy for laughing bcos Pica's focus would be on them and then he'd slow them down from going after Dofy.
They basically became Pica's center of focus which was what Law was trying to avoid not bcos Pica was strong enough to beat them.