Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2019] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[Rain Spectre]

Such a thing was touched on in the discussion between Nakano and Takekawa Shingo:

"Firstly, the editorial department is slowly loosening up its policy on manga ending. In the past, Nakano admitted during the interview that the editorial department often wouldn’t let a manga end as long as it was popular, refusing any author’s request to do so."

"However, sometimes letting a series end is the best thing to do for the series itself. Hiryouki Nakano offered the example of Yusei Matsui’s Assassination Classroom during the interview as a series that was allowed to end according to the author’s plan and ended up being an instant Jump classic because of it."

Basically, it's less that series are running shorter, and more that creators are more freely allowed to end when they want.

 

[101nemesis]

I think they confused cohesiveness with stability because they mention series running long.

Jesus Christ. Stability is the word I kept looking for. I just stayed with cohesive. Also, I assumed that's what Rain meant ie stability and/or successful series that found a footing.

 

[Leoat12]

Yaiba is also pretty much ending in few months if the author doesn't introduce anything new.

I don't think SJ changed that much, is just that most people here started in a generation where Jump had a good number of longer battle shounens so it gives this impression that current things looks shorter, but if you pick the list of all mangas that were published since 2000, most of the popular mangas were all 5 years of serialization at most and currently we have the "typical" battle shounens like BNHA and Black Clover that will be here for a long time yet, i don't know about Jujutsu Kaisen but i don't see being short like Yaiba or Neverland.

The rest are mangas that you really don't expect to be so long.

Honestly, I don't see any of them running a long time, meaning, something like Naruto or Bleach. When I say long it is 300+ chapters, before that it is really not that long, it is normal for Jump standards like you said, I think.

 

[Shinuki no Reborn]

Honestly, I don't see any of them running a long time, meaning, something like Naruto or Bleach. When I say long it is 300+ chapters, before that it is really not that long, it is normal for Jump standards like you said, I think.

But BNHA and Black Clover will run over 300 chapters, easily, Horikoshi already confirmed he doesn't how much time it will take to end but it's already more than what he expected, Tabata also wants Black Clover to be long, of course i don't see any of them reaching 700 chapter (15 years) tho.

 

[Nemesis]

My two cents. I know no one cares but shhhhh
What I seem to be seeing is a lot of people who have been getting into manga and anime and learning how the industry works recently, especially in the past 2-4 years (just like some in this forum), seem to equate a series popularity outside of Japan to it's popularity inside it.

Everything recent seems "more popular" mainly because the internet and the world is more connected now than it was 15 years ago. People seem to be mistaking the mainstream success anime and manga have found outside Japan and equating that to a series' popularity inside. The manga community outside Japan is the largest it's ever been with 100s of forums, manga Edited Manga sites for SO MANY languages, anime websites, Youtube, streaming apps and all sorts of resources available, most of which didn't exist 10 years ago.

Its the same reason people assume MHA's popularity is on the same lines as Naruto or Bleach. Or like this whole Nisekoi / TLR argument. Same with BC and how some overestimates its popularity in Japan (Before you @ me, it IS popular but its definitely more popular outside Japan than in it). Or like how some think Gintama's sales were "average" without realizing the impact it had as a comedy manga and how impressive its accomplishments are.

I disagree. I think that BC is MORE popular in Japan than here.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 28, 2019, Original Post Date: Sep 28, 2019 ---

Such a thing was touched on in the discussion between Nakano and Takekawa Shingo:

"Firstly, the editorial department is slowly loosening up its policy on manga ending. In the past, Nakano admitted during the interview that the editorial department often wouldn’t let a manga end as long as it was popular, refusing any author’s request to do so."

"However, sometimes letting a series end is the best thing to do for the series itself. Hiryouki Nakano offered the example of Yusei Matsui’s Assassination Classroom during the interview as a series that was allowed to end according to the author’s plan and ended up being an instant Jump classic because of it."

Basically, it's less that series are running shorter, and more that creators are more freely allowed to end when they want.

Do you have a source for it? Can be japanese or english, I wanted to read the entire interview.

 

[Rain Spectre]

Do you have a source for it? Can be japanese or english, I wanted to read the entire interview.

David and Goliath: Hiroyuki Nakano and Takekawa Shingo in New Interview – OTAQUEST

Hiroyuki Nakano and Takekawa Shingo sitting down for an interview may have resembled David and Goliath, but it did offer some valuable insights.

www.otaquest.com

Here.

BTW, for the likes of Thores, I think this is a good point to consider:

"All of these changes are being made to address the changing landscape of manga, namely the fact that paper magazine circulation is falling while digital consumption is on the rise."

"During the interview, Nakano explained how this change has caused a pretty significant shift in how manga get popular. In general, manga take much longer to catch on nowadays than before, as fewer people are reading the magazines and are only picking up the collected volumes as they release a couple of months after the initial magazine printing."

"Yet, these changes also bring with them new audiences. Hiroyuki Nakano brought up Kimetsu no Yaiba during the interview as an example of a series that took a while to catch on, but when it did, brought in a whole new audience of people who don’t usually read Jump."

Interesting...

 

[Nemesis]

Very interesting interview. So many things that they said that I don't even know what to talk about exactly haha But I'll save it for the future if I need, which I probably will in some discussion.

Btw, no idea that Nakano was the editor chief of Saikyu Jump. And he and the others really talk about kids, while in the west the majority of the people look at those manga as if they're made for adults even though they're shonen.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 28, 2019, Original Post Date: Sep 28, 2019 ---

Those were interesting...

Consciously crafting a specific image for Jump leads, quite naturally, to some big differences between it and Weekly Shonen Champion. Nakano professed during the interview that he probably wouldn’t have given BEASTARS a serialization due to its rough art at the beginning – echoing Weekly Shonen Magazine editor Kurita Hirotoshi’s own comments – instead, he probably would have given it time to grow as one shot in Jump or have it published in a separate magazine. The fact that Champion was willing to give the series and author Paru Itagaki a chance, however, is cause for more than a little bit of regret for Nakano now – especially since the series has massively improved (including the artwork) since the beginning of its serialization.

The Jump editorial team is also dedicated to developing its digital presence through Jump Plus, which allows them to pick up different types of manga that wouldn’t necessarily fit in with the paper magazine’s aforementioned ‘image.’ Developing new competitions and prizes are also important for allowing Jump to gather interesting new material for serializations, that will, in turn, hopefully, become hits in the future.
That being said, Hiroyuki Nakano said during the interview that he does not view this as a sudden change. Rather, the Jump editorial team has always been one that accepts change and strives to move with the times. If the changes do seem sudden, though, Nakano explained during the interview that it’s probably because the team over at Jump Plus are more willing and able to put out wildly different new things.

During the interview, Nakano explained how this change has caused a pretty significant shift in how manga get popular. In general, manga take much longer to catch on nowadays than before, as fewer people are reading the magazines and are only picking up the collected volumes as they release a couple of months after the initial magazine printing.
Yet, these changes also bring with them new audiences. Hiroyuki Nakano brought up Kimetsu no Yaiba during the interview as an example of a series that took a while to catch on, but when it did, brought in a whole new audience of people who don’t usually read Jump.

 

[Rain Spectre]

Very interesting interview. So many things that they said that I don't even know what to talk about exactly haha But I'll save it for the future if I need, which I probably will in some discussion.

Btw, no idea that Nakano was the editor chief of Saikyu Jump. And he and the others really talk about kids, while in the west the majority of the people look at those manga as if they're made for adults even though they're shonen.

Well, I think the translation is a little iffy there, because Nakano has outright said in other interviews that the main demographic is teenagers. I think it's because "Shonen" is used in a broader context that what many think?

 

[Shinuki no Reborn]

No, is just the classic western insecurity with animation, manga/comic books and fantasy stuff, people here hate the "notion" that these mangas, animes, superhero movies and stuff are made mainly for teens and kids, so they create this idea that shounen mangas/animes, superhero movies and etc are made mostly for teens/adults to not feel like they're consuming something for kids, i actually had to read DB fans arguing that the original manga was made for adults because it had violence, how many times i had to read that Marvel movies are made for kids while the Snyder crap was for adults because a dark filter and the list goes on, western otaku/geeks don't want to be treated like kids while consuming and mostly acting like kids...

Edit: Remembering the classic years with people treating One Piece like crap and not giving a chance because it looked like a manga for kids while Naruto and specially Bleach were treated like the stuff for adults!

 

[hisoga]

"During the interview, Nakano explained how this change has caused a pretty significant shift in how manga get popular. In general, manga take much longer to catch on nowadays than before, as fewer people are reading the magazines and are only picking up the collected volumes as they release a couple of months after the initial magazine printing."

"Yet, these changes also bring with them new audiences. Hiroyuki Nakano brought up Kimetsu no Yaiba during the interview as an example of a series that took a while to catch on, but when it did, brought in a whole new audience of people who don’t usually read Jump."

Wait.. somebody please help me here because my english is not good but if this is what i think it is, isn't this mean that its not really good of an idea trying to judge the survivality and readers reception of the new series even before its volume 2 come out?

And also, isn't this quote is in some way is an answer why many new series that have terrible reception still serialize longer in the magazine than in the previous eras?

 

[Rain Spectre]

Wait.. somebody please help me here because my english is not good but if this is what i think it is, isn't this mean that its not really good of an idea trying to judge the survivality and readers reception of the new series even before its volume 2 come out?

And also, isn't this quote is in some way is an answer why many new series that have terrible reception still serialize longer in the magazine than in the previous eras?

In all likelyhood? Yes.

Is worth noting there is a limit, of course. Kimetsu and Act-Age, while they started small-ish, still sold 20k or so with Vol 1. A series with poor online reception and sales of 5k or under is unlikely to ever grow, so off to the axe factory it goes.

Same interview BTW explicitly notes that Jump's reader survey's aren't the end all be all regarding deciding what to axe. Bakuman exaggerated that for dramatic effect.

 

[animeexpert]

Different context, 2010 wasn't really a good year but Shonen Jump was full of hits, the line up was stacked at the time while at the moment the magazine is actually working with two less mangas than the usual and veteran series ending left and right, i know that popular stuff will come but my point is more that Shonen Jump needs to step it up in 2020 because they have a lot of left spaces to fill.

Different context, 2010 wasn't really a good year but Shonen Jump was full of hits, the line up was stacked at the time while at the moment the magazine is actually working with two less mangas than the usual and veteran series ending left and right, i know that popular stuff will come but my point is more that Shonen Jump needs to step it up in 2020 because they have a lot of left spaces to fill.

ehh not true entirely to be honest.. losing 2 hits is nothing compared what we had in 2016 (assanation classroom, toriko, nisekoi) we had more big loses. here are the proofs.

nisekoi 2011- 2016
assanation classroom: 2012 - 2016
toriko: 2008 - 2016
kuroko no basket: 2008 - 2014

shonenjump progam having 18 titles (saiki, beezlebub & 1 other manga that were populair inside japan) with other manga come and go just like today


shonenjump progam changed to being more steady with ''globally known'' mangas with an long time span, instead of the ones that are mostly only famous in japan.

Readers taste changed and the demand is higher

we have mha and bc being the face on jump like we had with the big 3 & haikyuu going for another 300+ chapters



now we have 19 titles, 12 manga that are the face of shonenjump (inclusive S8).

My point is jump doesnt need 14 to 15 ''hits'' titles anymore on their magazine, their program can live with a minimum of 12 with others come and go, since long ago. there no need for ''rush'', how many hits do you want from jump?.. that's the biggest question.

Btw "hits" were different than we have now, what's your image of hits?.

We can suddenly have 5 hits in 2020, or maybe yozakura and mitama survive

There are so many factors about this, but there is no many reasons of "needs"

 

[Rain Spectre]

Well, in terms of stability, the issue is that we have no idea where it'll go. Of the current roster, TPN is ending in about two months, WNL in three and KNY most likely a few months after that (let's say April). Likewise, the chances of Yuuna ending in that time period are relatively high (one ecchi manga can only sustain itself for so long at this point, especially when Jump appears to have stopped advertising it), and there's also a fair chance towards Dr Stone in the next eight months depending on how the current arc concludes. Add in the four obvious cancellation fodder, Samurai 8 (which is flopping like a fish) and the empty slot, and you are left with just seven established members of the roster (One Piece, Haikyu, MHA, BC, Act-Age, Jujutsu and Chainsaw), plus the two newbies (Yozakura and Mitama).

That's literally more than half the magazine which will most likely be gone in less than a year. Even less if you argue Yozakura and Mitama have no chance, though for benefit of the argument I'm going to grant them such, though neither series is looking especially likely (I'm still holding out for Yozakura right now, though).

The question becomes, how exactly do we fill up the massive hole that is opening up, without making a bigger mess of what we already have? There's really no easy solution here, especially with how the market itself has changed per Nakano.

 

[Roacher]

The question becomes, how exactly do we fill up the massive hole that is opening up, without making a bigger mess of what we already have? There's really no easy solution here, especially with how the market itself has changed per Nakano.

Isekai!!!

So if Jump finally axe some series, do you think they greenlight next manga with girl protagonist?

 

[Leoat12]

No, is just the classic western insecurity with animation, manga/comic books and fantasy stuff, people here hate the "notion" that these mangas, animes, superhero movies and stuff are made mainly for teens and kids, so they create this idea that shounen mangas/animes, superhero movies and etc are made mostly for teens/adults to not feel like they're consuming something for kids, i actually had to read DB fans arguing that the original manga was made for adults because it had violence, how many times i had to read that Marvel movies are made for kids while the Snyder crap was for adults because a dark filter and the list goes on, western otaku/geeks don't want to be treated like kids while consuming and mostly acting like kids...

Edit: Remembering the classic years with people treating One Piece like crap and not giving a chance because it looked like a manga for kids while Naruto and specially Bleach were treated like the stuff for adults!

It's not insecurity based on nothing though, it really happens. People who don't know anything about mangas or comics in general think it is something for children, principally in Brazil, now talking specifically about it, where the majority of them are obviously for kids, Disney comics, Mauricio de Souza, etc.
Who ever heard about mangas have a misconception that everything is ******. So either you are a kid, a perverted reading ****** or a perverted reading lolicon. That's about it. So we have to somehow educate people on that.

However, the ideia that Shounen Jump is for kids is not true even in Japan since the majority of the readers are not even kids anymore at least since I started reading it. It already became an universal magazine that can entertain anybody, from kids to adults, men and women.

 

[Rain Spectre]

It's not insecurity based on nothing though, it really happens. People who don't know anything about mangas or comics in general think it is something for children, principally in Brazil, now talking specifically about it, where the majority of them are obviously for kids, Disney comics, Mauricio de Souza, etc.
Who ever heard about mangas have a misconception that everything is ******. So either you are a kid, a perverted reading ****** or a perverted reading lolicon. That's about it. So we have to somehow educate people on that.

However, the ideia that Shounen Jump is for kids is not true even in Japan since the majority of the readers are not even kids anymore at least since I started reading it. It already became an universal magazine that can entertain anybody, from kids to adults, men and women.

Kids aren't even Jump's primary readership anymore:

Shueisha Reveals New Circulation Numbers, Demographics for its Manga Magazines

Average print circulation for Weekly Shonen Jump in 2018 was 1.74 million

www.animenewsnetwork.com

"The guide did not list the gender demographics for its Weekly Shonen Jump magazine, but did list a breakdown by age. 27.4% of readers are 25 years old or older, 25.8% are 19-24 years old, 17.6% are 16-18 years old, 16.4% are 13-15 years old, 9.6% are 10-12 years old, and 3.2% are nine years old or younger."

 

[Leoat12]

Kids aren't even Jump's primary readership anymore:

Shueisha Reveals New Circulation Numbers, Demographics for its Manga Magazines

Average print circulation for Weekly Shonen Jump in 2018 was 1.74 million

www.animenewsnetwork.com

"The guide did not list the gender demographics for its Weekly Shonen Jump magazine, but did list a breakdown by age. 27.4% of readers are 25 years old or older, 25.8% are 19-24 years old, 17.6% are 16-18 years old, 16.4% are 13-15 years old, 9.6% are 10-12 years old, and 3.2% are nine years old or younger."

That's what I said. O.o

 

[Roacher]

However, the ideia that Shounen Jump is for kids is not true even in Japan since the majority of the readers are not even kids anymore at least since I started reading it. It already became an universal magazine that can entertain anybody, from kids to adults, men and women.

WSJ it's kids magazine that's are target audience even if majority readership are adults. Like Marvel and Star Wars movies are kids movies even that plenty adults watch them.

 

[animeexpert]

Well, in terms of stability, the issue is that we have no idea where it'll go. Of the current roster, TPN is ending in about two months, WNL in three and KNY most likely a few months after that (let's say April). Likewise, the chances of Yuuna ending in that time period are relatively high (one ecchi manga can only sustain itself for so long at this point, especially when Jump appears to have stopped advertising it), and there's also a fair chance towards Dr Stone in the next eight months depending on how the current arc concludes. Add in the four obvious cancellation fodder, Samurai 8 (which is flopping like a fish) and the empty slot, and you are left with just seven established members of the roster (One Piece, Haikyu, MHA, BC, Act-Age, Jujutsu and Chainsaw), plus the two newbies (Yozakura and Mitama).

That's literally more than half the magazine which will most likely be gone in less than a year. Even less if you argue Yozakura and Mitama have no chance, though for benefit of the argument I'm going to grant them such, though neither series is looking especially likely (I'm still holding out for Yozakura right now, though).

The question becomes, how exactly do we fill up the massive hole that is opening up, without making a bigger mess of what we already have? There's really no easy solution here, especially with how the market itself has changed per Nakano.

Well, in terms of stability, the issue is that we have no idea where it'll go. Of the current roster, TPN is ending in about two months, WNL in three and KNY most likely a few months after that (let's say April). Likewise, the chances of Yuuna ending in that time period are relatively high (one ecchi manga can only sustain itself for so long at this point, especially when Jump appears to have stopped advertising it), and there's also a fair chance towards Dr Stone in the next eight months depending on how the current arc concludes. Add in the four obvious cancellation fodder, Samurai 8 (which is flopping like a fish) and the empty slot, and you are left with just seven established members of the roster (One Piece, Haikyu, MHA, BC, Act-Age, Jujutsu and Chainsaw), plus the two newbies (Yozakura and Mitama).

That's literally more than half the magazine which will most likely be gone in less than a year. Even less if you argue Yozakura and Mitama have no chance, though for benefit of the argument I'm going to grant them such, though neither series is looking especially likely (I'm still holding out for Yozakura right now, though).

The question becomes, how exactly do we fill up the massive hole that is opening up, without making a bigger mess of what we already have? There's really no easy solution here, especially with how the market itself has changed per Nakano.

brother, in that time we will have other new hits. btw what make you think drstone gonna ''maybe'' end in 8 months?, what do you make you think drstone gonna end that soon.. btw i dont see chainsawman as an long running

 

[Leoat12]

WSJ it's kids magazine that's are target audience even if majority readership are adults. Like Marvel and Star Wars movies are kids movies even that plenty adults watch them.

We had this discussion many times here before. The target is different from the actual. We are talking about the actual audience. The editors may talk what they want, but let's say they are not doing a good job at that, the audience is adults and teens from 16 onwards.