Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2019] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[lgrmjauffre]

Oh, no, I know full well it was the shakey overall animation quality that was the problem. Just still wish it had gotten at least some more people to pick up the manga. It's a good series.

 

[101nemesis]

KNY's anime adaptation was miles better, it's just the truth. BC took like 60+ episodes to get an episode that was well produced and a lot of people hyped it, even Crunchyroll was raving about it, but the episode had a mixed reaction. Now, even when the anime gets a really well produced episode (and it has had quite a few recently), only fans and sakuga enthusiasts care.

Stop putting it all on the anime.
World Trigger had a very minimal budget anime with low quality animations but its overall boost was slower but greater than BC.
I'm not saying its not liked. But it's very clear that it's something majority didn't find interesting or as something that stood out.

 

[Franz]

Oh, no, I know full well it was the shakey overall animation quality that was the problem. Just still wish it had gotten at least some more people to pick up the manga. It's a good series.

But nothing would have changed. Why are people so fixated with studies?

But is it not that if one manga sells more than another it is because ...... people like it more?

Even if the Pierrot had done Kimetsu and the Ufotabile had done BC would not have changed anything.

Look at Fire Force. Anime made more than good by a highly respected study, but I don't think sales have skyrocketed .....

 

[lgrmjauffre]

But nothing would have changed. Why are people so fixated with studies?

But is it not that if one manga sells more than another it is because ...... people like it more?

Even if the Pierrot had done Kimetsu and the Ufotabile would not have changed anything.

Look at Fire Force. Souls made more than good by a highly respected study, but I don't think sales have skyrocketed .....

I wasn't saying it was a bad thing that KnY sells more. It deserves its sales. I just said I thought Black Clover deserved to sell more than it currently does, anime is usually a good way to get exposure and boost a series' sales, and KnY was a very relevant, recent goal point to compare it to.

People read way too much into what was an innocent, no strings attached comment too often on here.

 

[Franz]

Stop putting it all on the anime.
World Trigger had a very minimal budget anime with low quality animations but its overall boost was slower but greater than BC.
I'm not saying its not liked. But it's very clear that it's something majority didn't find interesting or as something that stood out.

For once, I agree.

Anime or not, Kimetsu is more liked by the Japanese than Black Clover simply.

Pre anime Kimetsu was already selling a lot, while Black Clover's pre-anime sales were more modest.

The motivations can be many, trivially for Kimetsu the purely Japanese settings play well, while Black Clover pays for being a fantasy, a genre that is quite abused in manga

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 1, 2019, Original Post Date: Oct 1, 2019 ---

I just said I thought Black Clover deserved to sell more than it currently does, anime is usually a good way to get exposure and boost a series' sales, and KnY was a very relevant, recent goal point to compare it to.

The boost due to the anime, BC had it as well as an increase in popularity.

If Kimetsu sells more it is simply because the manga is liked more than Black Clover, that's all.

I repeat look at Fire Force and its post anime sales ...

 

[animeexpert]

The anime or the studio has nothing to do with it.

Simply Kimetsu is more liked than Black Clover, that's all.

Even if the BC anime was made by the Ghibli studio it would change nothing.

extacly.

Nothing controversial about it. KNY's adaptation was better in every way compared to BC. Season 2 as a movie should be even better.

beginning of bc was nothing special, just ur average shonen but worse.

 

[Mankichi Togawa]

Black Clover has its aura of "generic and very shit and worse version of Fairy Tail" that has unfortunately haunted it since the beginning. Is probably the current Jump manga I've read more people thrashing about, without giving it any chance. Also, the bad animation of Pierrot and Asta shouting all the time in episode 1 didn't help. Expect in the future even Jujutsu Kaisen getting more love.

Worse for those people. For me Black Clover is one of the best action manga there is currently, with a lot of strong points like Noelle, who is the most amazing lead shonen female MC I've ever read.

TBH I prefer Black Clover to Dr.Stone or Neverland for example. And there were periods I prefered it over My Hero Academia. Is a matter of giving it a chance.

 

[Franz]

Black Clover has its aura of "generic and very shit and worse version of Fairy Tail" that has unfortunately haunted it since the beginning. Is probably the current Jump manga I've read more people thrashing about, without giving it any chance.

Well what does it have to do with it? Here we talk about the tastes of the Japanese as they are buying the manga, not the tastes of the West.

 

[shoyoboyo]

Even if the Pierrot had done Kimetsu and the Ufotabile had done BC would not have changed anything

Nah, a big reason Kimetsu got the initial attention it got was because of the ufotable name attached to it, along with the A-list cast and composer. None of those would've been guaranteed with Pierrot at the helm, and it definitely would not have looked nearly as good with them either. It most likely would've just been a decent battle shonen adaptation.

Pre anime Kimetsu was already selling a lot, while Black Clover's pre-anime sales were more modest.

They both sold pretty much the same before their anime, dropping out of oricon at around 140-150k. I don't get where this statement came from.

Spoiler: Source

BC got its anime at v13, KNY at v15 so compare their sales before those volumes.

Weird how you used to defend black clover from any criticism it got and now you're downplaying its success

 

[Ryuusei]

I meant to say quality production is important, of course, but I agree that story is also a key point in making people get into a series. BC is a very generic shounen and in a fantasy setting, which we have seen plenty of times. As for FF, even if the anime is well produced, the story is just very slow paced and there is a lot of unnecessary fanservice. My apologies if I made it sound like production was the only important factor.

Black Clover has its aura of "generic and very shit and worse version of Fairy Tail" that has unfortunately haunted it since the beginning. Is probably the current Jump manga I've read more people thrashing about, without giving it any chance. Also, the bad animation of Pierrot and Asta shouting all the time in episode 1 didn't help. Expect in the future even Jujutsu Kaisen getting more love.

Worse for those people. For me Black Clover is one of the best action manga there is currently, with a lot of strong points like Noelle, who is the most amazing lead shonen female MC I've ever read.

TBH I prefer Black Clover to Dr.Stone or Neverland for example. And there were periods I prefered it over My Hero Academia. Is a matter of giving it a chance.

I love BC and, even if I wasn't a big fan of latter half of the Reincarnation Arc, it was a great experience overall. The anime turned me off for the first few episodes, but I gave the manga a chance and I was hooked, I binged it in like 2 days or something. In my opinion, the series has a lot of heart and that's something I really look for in a series.

 

[Ctkk]

Black Clover is a better Fairy Tail if you ask me.

 

[Franz]

Weird how you used to defend black clover from any criticism it got and now you're downplaying its success

????
What ?
No one downplayed anything here, it was being discussed that Kimetsu had more success than Black Clover.

They both sold pretty much the same before their anime, dropping out of oricon at around 140-150k. I don't get where this statement came from.

Those diagrams are not updated.

 

[MangAniMY]

 

[shoyoboyo]

No one downplayed anything here, it was being discussed that Kimetsu had more success than Black Clover.

Kimetsu had much more success than BC after the anime yeah but before the anime they were in a similar situation.

Those diagrams are not updated.

They don't need to be up to date when the relevant information is there (the pre-anime volume sales)

 

[101nemesis]

Nah, a big reason Kimetsu got the initial attention it got was because of the ufotable name attached to it, along with the A-list cast and composer. None of those would've been guaranteed with Pierrot at the helm, and it definitely would not have looked nearly as good with them either. It most likely would've just been a decent battle shonen adaptation.


They both sold pretty much the same before their anime, dropping out of oricon at around 140-150k. I don't get where this statement came from.

Spoiler: Source

BC got its anime at v13, KNY at v15 so compare their sales before those volumes.

Weird how you used to defend black clover from any criticism it got and now you're downplaying its success

He isn't downplaying its success. On the contrary, you're downplaying Kimetsu's achievement in an attempt to externalize the blame for BC's inability to do similar sales.
Sure a better anime studio might have pushed its sales a bit further but it definitely would not achieve anything close to what KnY achieved.

BC got a decent anime adaptation. Or are we forgetting how Attack on Titan had a low budget adaptation with many still shots but still managed to become a cultural phenomenon, not just in Japan, but also worldwide? Tokyo Ghoul had the same studio and despite the negative response from manga fans in general about the adaptation, it still pushed TG's sales to amazing numbers. If your material is strong enough to get people talking, it will.

 

[Leoat12]

Today is a good day because I read Yozakura. What a manga, I really hope the voters don't mess up this time.
Also read Chainsaw man. There are two rules in this manga and both were apparent in this chapter for me:

Spoiler

1) Everybody wants to kill Denji. The moment the girl smiled to him I thought "oh God, she is a monster who wants to kill him."
I'm automatically triggered for any new character. XD
2) Denji falls in love to any girl he comes across although this one is the cutest so far. All the more reason to think she is the most terrible monster we will see. XD

 

[pamuchi]

?

need more context there... anyway

|Week 1(F)|Week 2|Week 3|Week 4|Week 5┃OriconLTD (DIP)┃Pub. Date |Title

|******(3)|------|------|------|------┃*,621,561(1207)┃2016/06/03|Kimetsu no Yaiba 1

|*16323(4)|------|------|------|------┃*,595,670(1145)┃2016/08/04|Kimetsu no Yaiba 2

|*25967(6)|------|------|------|------┃*,583,347(1084)┃2016/10/04|Kimetsu no Yaiba 3

|*21815(3)|------|------|------|------┃*,572,601(1025)┃2016/12/02|Kimetsu no Yaiba 4

|*41476(3)|*65822|------|------|------┃*,572,610(*934)┃2017/03/03|Kimetsu no Yaiba 5

|*65937(6)|*84742|------|------|------┃*,578,013(*874)┃2017/05/02|Kimetsu no Yaiba 6

|*57083(3)|*96527|------|------|------┃*,563,646(*780)┃2017/08/04|Kimetsu no Yaiba 7

|*81312(5)|109936|122681|------|------┃*,561,059(*719)┃2017/10/04|Kimetsu no Yaiba 8

|*89077(7)|110729|******|130267|------┃*,551,520(*658)┃2017/12/04|Kimetsu no Yaiba 9

|*65861(3)|118511|133976|------|------┃*,549,581(*570)┃2018/03/02|Kimetsu no Yaiba 10

|113325(7)|135313|******|153976|------┃*,551,200(*476)┃2018/06/04|Kimetsu no Yaiba 11

|*64061(3)|118990|138412|------|------┃*,543,111(*416)┃2018/08/03|Kimetsu no Yaiba 12

|*74425(3)|129051|146318|------|------┃*,537,487(*325)┃2018/11/02|Kimetsu no Yaiba 13

|*78819(3)|126981|145143|******|160110┃*,522,930(*262)┃2019/01/04|Kimetsu no Yaiba 14

|107041(4)|159717|183206|198458|214609┃*,529,300(*172)┃2019/04/04|Kimetsu no Yaiba 15

|225102(4)|302423|337978|357346|384400┃*,551,608(**81)┃2019/07/04|Kimetsu no Yaiba 16

|*51963(4)|******|******|******|119215┃*,233,572(**81)┃2019/07/04|Kimetsu no Yaiba Official Fanbook Demon Coprse Records

admittedly this is not the normal looking graph, with newser volumes having larger sales than previous one, I mostly attribute it to race conditions(due to sudden influx), the 1-10 boxset (which is only counted as a single sku), and actual copies distributed (as in whether the store is tracked by oricon or not)

Sorry I forgot to put it's about KnY anime blu ray and DVD.

 

[NeeNeen]

Well what does it have to do with it? Here we talk about the tastes of the Japanese as they are buying the manga, not the tastes of the West.

What makes you think the tastes of the Japanese will be drastically different in this regard?

If anything, wouldn't they find it even more generic, since they've seen more manga than we have?

 

[Mankichi Togawa]

Now, for the special issue of Jump news, legend titles:

-Otoko Ippiki Gaki Daisho chapter 10 Edited Manga is out.

-And this:

 

[Koni]

He isn't downplaying its success. On the contrary, you're downplaying Kimetsu's achievement in an attempt to externalize the blame for BC's inability to do similar sales.
Sure a better anime studio might have pushed its sales a bit further but it definitely would not achieve anything close to what KnY achieved.

BC got a decent anime adaptation. Or are we forgetting how Attack on Titan had a low budget adaptation with many still shots but still managed to become a cultural phenomenon, not just in Japan, but also worldwide? Tokyo Ghoul had the same studio and despite the negative response from manga fans in general about the adaptation, it still pushed TG's sales to amazing numbers. If your material is strong enough to get people talking, it will.

To add another example, though this isn’t Jump, Gotoubun no Hanayome has a generally bad adaptation all around, yet it still manage to boost the series numbers to such an extend that it will surpass some of the biggest current Jump series in volume sales this year.