Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2019] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[Samael Morningstar]

S8 seems have been already axed lol since it's scans of the latest chapters ain't coming till now when it should be here 2 days earlier.

 

[gnut]

I think I should stress that all these talks about Samurai 8 underperforming are just mere observations about how it's doing at the moment. This is Kishimoto we're talking about so he might bring readers back any moment and realize his visions for S8 while making it entertaining at the same time. However, it's clear that he needs to change his writing approach and cater more to his audiences.

Why does he need to cater to an audience?
That doesn't necessarily lead to greatness....


You think when Moby Dick was released there were high sales or even high publications?

Hell....i doubt most people at the time could read

Just saying....I believe the guy isn't receiving a fair chance because alotta people are hung up on Naruto.

 

[Thundercat27]

The major reasons for S8 being a failure lies mostly with the readers.
1. The trash talking and hate it got for the first chapters but currently it's good but I'm sure those people ain't even reading it.
2.japanesse have a niche to sci fi that's just not their type.
3. Lack of patience which is another important reason I'm sure most readers left it after the first few chapters . There's a saying in our language that"Savr ka fal mitha hota hai" Meaning the results of patience is Sweet.
4.A part of its failure lies with kishimoto too as he did what he wanted, not knowing what the readers wanted to, even though he could bring them as his readers in future but that would be a lot of hard work .

So with all these I hate to say this but Our Beloved Japanese Have Failed to Evolve

Wow, so you put all the blame on the customers.
Customers are the one who decide a product's success by their purchase decision. If they don't like it, they won't buy it.
Unless you are some kind of high-art misunderstood genius who talent won't be discovered years later (which is definitely not the case here), if your works doesn't sale, you much have done something wrong.

 

[Kharthas]

Why does he need to cater to an audience?
That doesn't necessarily lead to greatness....

Of course not. But it will lead to more people supporting and buying his manga. No matter how big Kishimoto is, he needs support from readers.

 

[Samael Morningstar]

Wow, so you put all the blame on the customers.
Customers are the one who decide a product's success by their purchase decision. If they don't like it, they won't buy it.
Unless you are some kind of high-art misunderstood genius who talent won't be discovered years later (which is definitely not the case here), if your works doesn't sale, you much have done something wrong.

Even if I take everything back but one thing's clear that they all lack patience. The only wrong in S8 were it's first few chapters being boring but now it's getting better and might be a masterpiece in future who knows

 

[gnut]

Of course not. But it will lead to more people supporting and buying his manga.

Is this not art?
Does one create art from/for all to enjoy but most importantly to fulfill oneself?


True artist does not worry about such things...otherwise I believe he wouldn't try again"to create"

 

[Rain Spectre]

Also, the biggest complaint surrounding Samurai 8 that was the result of the manga itself isn't something that "was Kishi proving his artistic merit", it's that the series world-building was horrendously complicated with a power system that included too many moving parts and terminology that reads like gibberish to an Japanese readerbase (all the terminology is in katakana, which designates foriegn words). There was nothing forcing Kishi to not simplify such elements.

 

[Thundercat27]

Also lmao at comparing Kishi to one of the greatest American Renaissance writers. I bet the character writing of Sakura would make Dostoevsky shed tears.

 

[Samael Morningstar]

Wow, so you put all the blame on the customers.
Customers are the one who decide a product's success by their purchase decision. If they don't like it, they won't buy it.
Unless you are some kind of high-art misunderstood genius who talent won't be discovered years later (which is definitely not the case here), if your works doesn't sale, you much have done something wrong.

Btw it is off topic but the thing you said about customers are the one who decides the product's success but in some cases it's businessmen who decide it

 

[Rain Spectre]

Btw it is off topic but the thing you said about customers are the one who decides the product's success but in some cases it's businessmen who decide it

Not in Jump.

Nakano outright said it's the readers and authors who truly drive things.

 

[gnut]

Also lmao at comparing Kishi to one of the greatest American Renaissance writer. I bet the character writing of Sakura would make Dostoevsky shed tears.

Didnt compare the writers only that sales mean shit...when it comes to creativity.
Audience doesnt dictate if someone should keep being artistic... whether it being writing,drawing,singing etc etc

 

[TJQ15]

Ain't the Japanese superbly talented individuals.... So can't they understand the infos....... Damn I need to change a lot of my perspectives regarding Japanese people

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 6, 2019, Original Post Date: Oct 6, 2019 ---

And I said in some cases. But the sad thing is that they ain't me who could have even drive readers into my stuff

Dude what are you talking about. The Japanese are neither some ultra-intelligence ethnic group or brainless troglodytes. They’re humans like the rest of us that have individual opinions that are partially affected by they genetics and environment (I.e. culture). Plus WSJ purpose is to write enjoyable series not “high art”.

 

[Tamil]

Just posting because... https://honto.jp/ranking/gr/bestseller_1101_1201_011_029004000000.html
Honto Daily Rankings 10/4

1. One Piece #94
2. Kimetsu no Yaiba #17
3. The Promised Neverland #16
4. Spy x Family #2
5. Jujutsu Kaisen #7
6. Koyoharu Gotoge Short Story Collection
8. Shokugeki no Soma #36
9. Black Clover #22
11. Boruto #10
12. Chainsawman#4
20. Yuuna #18
21. Hinomaru Sumo #27
43. Samurai 8 #1
57. Samurai 8 #2

Go Jujutsu! HZ making out of the 30k club would be cool even if its is unlikely. Btw what chapters does CSM volume 4 cover?

That Kimetsu volume would probably do 550-600k in a month. Its gonna be insane lol

 

[Rain Spectre]

Ain't the Japanese superbly talented individuals.... So can't they understand the infos....... Damn I need to change a lot of my perspectives regarding Japanese people

Putting aside how incredibly questionable that comment is, you seem to be forgetting that all the terminology in Samurai 8 is in katakana, which, again, is used for foregin words and names. This is importent because it makes half the dialogue in Samurai 8 read like gibberish to a JP reader, the series includes vast swamths of terminology with only vague/basic explanations. Take the use of "Samurai" and "Bushi", for example. The two are literally the same thing in the Japanese language, but they mean seperate things here, and their written in such a way that implies neither is the standard use of the word.

Do you understand why that is confusing?

Dude what are you talking about. The Japanese are neither some ultra-intelligence ethnic group or brainless troglodytes. They’re humans like the rest of us that have individual opinions that are partially affected by they genetics and environment (I.e. culture). Plus WSJ purpose is to write enjoyable series not “high art”.

Functionally speaking, there is no such thing as "high art" in a modern sense.

Art in such a concept became invalidated when literature became available to all, and not just the rich.

Go Jujutsu! HZ making out of the 30k club would be cool even if its is unlikely. Btw what chapters does CSM volume 4 cover?

That Kimetsu volume would probably do 550-600k in a month. Its gonna be insane lol

Same as any normal Vol 4. In other words Chapter 26 to 34.

 

[Thundercat27]

Also if you want to create real "art" that are not constraint with pleasing readers for commercial success, then weekly shounen jump is not the place for you. Weekly schedule demands constant content every week, and got instance feedbacks from readers. Those responses force authors to alter their vision in order to make their work be as appealing as possible to the broadest general populace. Jump is not the place for rebellious authors who dare to clash with the audience to keep their artistic integrity. The fact that Kishi went back to jump show that's he is not looking forward to those high art things.
Hell, when he decided to go along with his editors with that bombastic pr, he definitely struct for the broad Jump readers. Thus, I don't know how can any of you think Kishi shouldn't/won't compromise and pander towards general low-attention span Jump readers.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 6, 2019, Original Post Date: Oct 6, 2019 ---

Ain't the Japanese superbly talented individuals.... So can't they understand the infos....... Damn I need to change a lot of my perspectives regarding Japanese people

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 6, 2019, Original Post Date: Oct 6, 2019 ---

And I said in some cases. But the sad thing is that they ain't me who could have even drive readers into my stuff

Btw it is off topic but the thing you said about customers are the one who decides the product's success but in some cases it's businessmen who decide it

Dude, not sure if it's your intention but are you implying Japaneses are all hivemind who buy stuff because businessmen told them to. They are no different from you or me, just a random person looking for interesting stuffs to read. It's their personal freedom to choose what to read, to purchase and directly make it a bestseller.

 

[Thundercat27]

Tastes do change. But, I haven't find anyone praise level e nor platinum end nor Illegal rare nor gun blaze west yet
On a side note, the only one I see praising u19 is supercow. So it's not impossible for bad title to garner fan tho.

 

[Aeneas]

Togashi (still made Level E tho)

Though remember that comment from him? I always got the sense that it was meant to be a short-term thing, with him just having fun with a mishmash of ideas before starting up a more mainstream serialization. Especially since it was a monthly series in Jump. And I wanna say it did 1 million copies over the 3 volumes? But I'm most likely misremembering (if that info even exists lol).

 

[Rain Spectre]

Their interests and willingness will be manipulated naturally

You do realize that the discussion we are having is about how poorly Samurai 8 has done in spite of Kishi's name value and the amount of promotion, right?

If such a thing had any merit in this conversation, we wouldn't be having it.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 6, 2019, Original Post Date: Oct 6, 2019 ---

Though remember that comment from him? I always got the sense that it was meant to be a short-term thing, with him just having fun with a mishmash of ideas before starting up a more mainstream serialization. Especially since it was a monthly series in Jump. And I wanna say it did 1 million copies over the 3 volumes? But I'm most likely misremembering (if that info even exists lol).

Level E is a shitpost from Togashi reflecting his disillusionment with Jump as a system at the time. The whole thing was basically made with the intent to confuse and piss everyone off.

 

[TJQ15]

Though remember that comment from him? I always got the sense that it was meant to be a short-term thing, with him just having fun with a mishmash of ideas before starting up a more mainstream serialization. Especially since it was a monthly series in Jump. And I wanna say it did 1 million copies over the 3 volumes? But I'm most likely misremembering (if that info even exists lol).

Yea I agree with that, was just throwing it in there cuz it was short and most likely cancelled. I did enjoy the anime adaptation tho when it came out (never read the manga).

 

[Aeneas]

Level E is a shitpost from Togashi reflecting his disillusionment with Jump as a system at the time. The whole thing was basically made with the intent to confuse and piss everyone off.

Yea I agree with that, was just throwing it in there cuz it was short and most likely cancelled. I did enjoy the anime adaptation tho when it came out (never read the manga).

It definitely reads like a fever dream. Back when the anime came out, I was hoping Viz was gonna pick it up (given how short it is), but that time came and went. Though in 2011, that was when manga in the west was struggling, right? Same year they stopped doing Gintama.