Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2019] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[Aeneas]

That's exactly what I said but he ignored it.

Ah.

In his first interview about the manga he already stated that the manga would have a slow start and gets better with time and even that he expected readers to not be much engaged with it at the beginning.

For sure, but I imagine he didn't envision a start this slow. Though as usual, just a waiting game at this point to see how volumes 3-5 do.

 

[Ryuusei]

HQ's peak is 990k my guy

I feel like people need to clarify which peak they are talking about. HQ's peak in a month before leaving the charts is somewhere in the early 800s. So Kimetsu still has a bit more to go. HQ's peak print for a volume is more than a million.

The 990k you're talking about is not its peak per month nor is its peak over a 12 month period. The highest HQ volume peak in sales was a bit over a million over 10-12 month period.

Someone posted that few pages back, actually.

HQ's peak within a month was 776k with volume 20, while the peak within a year was 1 million with volume 19. The volume that did 990k within a year was volume 14.

 

[animeexpert]

If I had a choice between buying boruto or getting samurai 8 for free

Spoiler

I wouldve bought another volume of burrito

 

[Kharthas]

HQ's peak within a month was 776k with volume 20

How did that volume sell first week?

 

[Ryuusei]

How did that volume sell first week?

371k with a three day first week, it's HQ's biggest first week with that time frame. Volume 19 came really close with 370k. A curious fact, volume 14 and volume 18 both had a two day first week and they sold 378k and 367k, respectively.

 

[Kharthas]

371k with a three day first week, it's HQ's biggest first week with that time frame. Volume 19 came really close with 370k. A curious fact, volume 14 and volume 18 both had a two day first week and they sold 378k and 367k, respectively.

Then Kimetsu vol 17 has a similar start. It's absolutely amazing that last volume sold 600k in 3 months, but this one can potentially reach that milestone in 3 weeks. I downplayed all the talks of Kimetsu surpassing Neverland and MHA before, but this volume might just do that.

 

[hhht3x]

There are mainly two types of readers from what i can tell: Weekly or by volume. Personally, I can't keep up with Act-Age or samurai 8 weekly. There's a lot going on. So I save up a couple chapters and then read em all at once, its much more enjoyable. Therefore, I think its unfair to compare samurai 8's start to the Big dogs in the magazine. Series like kimetsu and Dr. stone are fun to read in short burst, with little gags and funny faces here and there. The dialogue is much simpler in comparison as well. They are high action from the start with simple quirky characters. Zenitsu's the scardy cat, Taiju's the strong one. Yes, there is more depth to them, but it's given later on. In samurai 8's case, the characters are much more realistic from the start.

Since kishimoto only has to focus on the writing, i don't think its far out there to assume he already has the whole story planned out. Character progression, story beats, etc. Especially since the first couple weeks we got a lot of world building and fundamentals explained.

Basically what i'm trying to say is that even though kishimoto's a big name author, it doesn't mean his series is going to kick off running (sales wise or storywise). Its a bit out of the standard, kinda like act-age. Most people read jump for high octane comedic adventures, and samurai 8 stepped out the gate with a prologue. Not saying whether its good or bad, or that it gets a pass for BEING good or bad. It just needs to find its audience and get rolling with the plot.



btw someone said earlier they wish Act-Age was higher in the ToC. But idk about that. The ToC doesn't reflect how well series is doing in jump so it shouldn't really matter. Its just formatted to be most enjoyable for the reader. So like, one piece is always at the top because a lot of people buy jump FOR one piece, or at the very least keep up with it. HxH is super popular, but it comes out so infrequently that the main demographic won't see it in jump anyway (of course some people read it there, but it started in 1998. Most of those readers aren't grabbing jump for the latest chapter of Beast children or some shit) . Nakano can just slide it in the middle and wait later for the success of the volume sales. Going back to Act-Age, it'll stay in the magazine since it can bring a new demographic to jump and it does good with manga sales. But it surely wont be prioritized in the magazine till more people vote it in the Surveys.
(btw idk if this is actually how it works. Just pieced together what the mangakas and editors have said in the passed. Makes sense in my head).

 

[Shinuki no Reborn]

That's exactly what I said but he ignored it.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 9, 2019, Original Post Date: Oct 9, 2019 ---

Of course it matters because it did not sell 100k initially that was after 4 years.

Kyōkai no Rinne #1 - 50,888
Kyōkai no Rinne #2 - 46,601

And that is very disappointing regardless since back then sales expectations were way higher and especially coming after Inuyasha.

Ehh you got that wrong: https://mangahelpers.com/forum/threads/weekly-oricon-comic-rankings-2009-2015.50703/post-1649848

Oricon: 10/19 - 10/25 (2nd Week)

18. Rinne volume 1 (44,672/95,560)
20. Rinne volume 2 (41,838/88,439)

And this was at the time we didn't get the top 50, just top 30 so it's pretty obvious that both would appear in the next week between 30th and 50th place with above 100k.

Also i didn't ignored, Kishi's comments in the volume isn't marketing or advertising...

 

[Rain Spectre]

There are mainly two types of readers from what i can tell: Weekly or by volume. Personally, I can't keep up with Act-Age or samurai 8 weekly. There's a lot going on. So I save up a couple chapters and then read em all at once, its much more enjoyable. Therefore, I think its unfair to compare samurai 8's start to the Big dogs in the magazine. Series like kimetsu and Dr. stone are fun to read in short burst, with little gags and funny faces here and there. The dialogue is much simpler in comparison as well. They are high action from the start with simple quirky characters. Zenitsu's the scardy cat, Taiju's the strong one. Yes, there is more depth to them, but it's given later on. In samurai 8's case, the characters are much more realistic from the start.

Since kishimoto only has to focus on the writing, i don't think its far out there to assume he already has the whole story planned out. Character progression, story beats, etc. Especially since the first couple weeks we got a lot of world building and fundamentals explained.

Basically what i'm trying to say is that even though kishimoto's a big name author, it doesn't mean his series is going to kick off running (sales wise or storywise). Its a bit out of the standard, kinda like act-age. Most people read jump for high octane comedic adventures, and samurai 8 stepped out the gate with a prologue. Not saying whether its good or bad, or that it gets a pass for BEING good or bad. It just needs to find its audience and get rolling with the plot.



btw someone said earlier they wish Act-Age was higher in the ToC. But idk about that. The ToC doesn't reflect how well series is doing in jump so it shouldn't really matter. Its just formatted to be most enjoyable for the reader. So like, one piece is always at the top because a lot of people buy jump FOR one piece, or at the very least keep up with it. HxH is super popular, but it comes out so infrequently that the main demographic won't see it in jump anyway (of course some people read it there, but it started in 1998. Most of those readers aren't grabbing jump for the latest chapter of Beast children or some shit) . Nakano can just slide it in the middle and wait later for the success of the volume sales. Going back to Act-Age, it'll stay in the magazine since it can bring a new demographic to jump and it does good with manga sales. But it surely wont be prioritized in the magazine till more people vote it in the Surveys.
(btw idk if this is actually how it works. Just pieced together what the mangakas and editors have said in the passed. Makes sense in my head).

I'm baffled as to why we're still using this argument that apparently everything with S8 is fine because Kishi wrote it to have a slow start. Why does that factor in to the series having sales equivalent of a newbie author in spite of the massive buildup and being the return of a massive figure in Jump's history? If the series was supposed to start off small, why did Jump give it a first printing so huge that bookstores are struggling to sell off their stock?

The simple matter of the fact here is that Jump clearly intended it to be a hit in the magazine from the start, and that aim backfired spectacularly. Why is another question, but we're really getting nowhere by trying to act like the series is doing just fine.

Ehh you got that wrong: https://mangahelpers.com/forum/threads/weekly-oricon-comic-rankings-2009-2015.50703/post-1649848

Oricon: 10/19 - 10/25 (2nd Week)

18. Rinne volume 1 (44,672/95,560)
20. Rinne volume 2 (41,838/88,439)

And this was at the time we didn't get the top 50, just top 30 so it's pretty obvious that both would appear in the next week between 30th and 50th place with above 100k.

Also i didn't ignored, Kishi's comments in the volume isn't marketing or advertising...

Shinuki, you appear to underestimate how big a deal Takahashi was. Woman was writing hit manga for 30 years, and I still see Inuyasha art on Japanese twitter from time to time. Rinne selling so little is definitely a disappointment given the surrounding circumstances.

 

[Jovan]

So we went from Samurai 8 talk to Inuyasha vs Rinne now. Ugh.

 

[Shinuki no Reborn]

Shinuki, you appear to underestimate how big a deal Takahashi was. Woman was writing hit manga for 30 years, and I still see Inuyasha art on Japanese twitter from time to time. Rinne selling so little is definitely a disappointment given the surrounding circumstances.

The fact she's writting hit mangas for 30 years doesn't make the two first volumes of a new manga by her selling over 100k on Oricon a "disappointment" it wouldn't be on Shonen Jump, let alone on Sunday, the fact the manga dropped on sales after that is another story (and still a quite profitable series for them overall) i'm talking about first volume sales.

 

[Halloween]

Guys, we're starting to get off-topic. If you wish to continue talking about the circumstances surrounding Rumiko Takahashi, please do so in a topic that's more suitable for that kind of discussion.

 

[Leoat12]

In his first interview about the manga he already stated that the manga would have a slow start and gets better with time and even that he expected readers to not be much engaged with it at the beginning.

He was trying to do something that never worked in the magazine. He just has this audacity because he knows the magazine will never cancel him, not matter how bad it looks. The same cannot be said about the readers, it will affect Jump credibility in the eyes of the readers, they advertised it like it was the best manga on the planet Earth and people didn't buy nor the idea, nor the volumes. They spent a big chunk of their marketing power and it will take time to recover, even if the series start to get really good, people will be caution, I even dare to say that any veteran author that may be planning a come back hold their horses and wait thing to settle down a little bit.

Anyway, in short, I don't think it is all right to say that everything is good because he predicted it. If he knew that it would happen then make the damn manga more interesting, it is his job. lol

 

[TxxT]

371k with a three day first week, it's HQ's biggest first week with that time frame. Volume 19 came really close with 370k. A curious fact, volume 14 and volume 18 both had a two day first week and they sold 378k and 367k, respectively.

Yeah HQ's peak was insane

HQ 20 - Week 1: 371,265 (3)
HQ 20 - Week 2: 639,558
HQ 20 - Week 3: 725,098
HQ 20 - Week 4: 776,531
HQ 20 - Week 5: 809,210

 

[Leoat12]

One thing I never understood about Haikyuu is why they didn't make a spin-off featuring the female volleyball team. Fear of surpassing the main series in success?
The glimpses we had showed a lot of potential, it is a rare diamond awaiting to be discovered.

 

[Leoat12]

Please, why you're being such a drama queen about this? as if Samurai 8 underperforming despite some promotion is something that will shake Shonen Jump forever in a negative way or make the magazine "lose credibility" in readers eyes or even prevent veterans for coming back lol, big names not selling like before happens all the time and in any magazine, if S8 don't get better in sales will probably be cancelled after 1 year, life continues, Shonen Jump continues, readers will continue to read the magazine and veterans will keep trying new things there.

Now you are talking as if Kishimoto was like any author? It is easy to say this now that we have the results. I knew that it would happen, although I didn't think it would be that bad. If the magazine treated the series like any other series like I said since the beginning, I think it would have sold more, even. lol
I, personally, will be more careful about Shonen Jump and its advertisements after this mess. Big mistake by not treating all the authors fairly.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 10, 2019, Original Post Date: Oct 10, 2019 ---

Kimetsu no Yaiba and Spy x Family making a huge success is symbolic now because they advertised Kishimoto new series like it was the next big thing, not putting much confidence in what they have now in the magazine. It failed and Kimetsu no Yaiba and Spy x Family rose as if saying "calm down, we have everything under control, no need of a savior".

 

[Koni]

To transition back to WSJ from Rumiko:


I wonder if this is an actual Twitter of hers. I’ve seen a lot of Yaiba fanart from her and I honestly wouldn’t mind a spin-off from her if she wasn’t working on MAO.

 

[Shinuki no Reborn]

Now you are talking as if Kishimoto was like any author? It is easy to say this now that we have the results. I knew that it would happen, although I didn't think it would be that bad. If the magazine treated the series like any other series like I said since the beginning, I think it would have sold more, even. lol
I, personally, will be more careful about Shonen Jump and its advertisements after this mess. Big mistake by not treating all the authors fairly.

You quoted me after they deleted my comment lol

But answering, no i'm not talking as if Kishimoto is like any other author but your comment was way too much dramactic, Samurai 8 isn't selling like expected while they made some bigger effort to market it, so what? this happens from time to time with bigger names not selling like expected, do the regular reader even care? people will stop buying SJ because of this? the regular reader isn't a person in a forum being overdramactic about manga sales, print and etc.

Don't know why you're acting like this suddenly proves anything about your opinion regarding treatment, or SJ should basically do nothing to promote a new manga from such a big name?

 

[Leoat12]

You quoted me after they deleted my comment lol

But answering, no i'm not talking as if Kishimoto is like any other author but your comment was way too much dramactic, Samurai 8 isn't selling like expected while they made some bigger effort to market it, so what? this happens from time to time with bigger names not selling like expected, do the regular reader even care? people will stop buying SJ because of this? the regular reader isn't a person in a forum being overdramactic about manga sales, print and etc.

Don't know why you're acting like this suddenly proves anything about your opinion regarding treatment, or SJ should basically do nothing to promote a new manga from such a big name?

I believe that good mangas don't need advertisement, they themselves are the advertisement. It may take time, but people will eventually realize its value. As for bad manga, no amount of advertisement will make them sell. I just think they overdid in the volumes knowing that the series was not going well in the magazine. They thought like many people here: "it is going bad at the magazine? No problem! Kishimoto name will make it sell volumes". They just forgot to tell Japanese readers about this.

 

[Halloween]

What chapter was Bleach on when the anime first aired?