Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2019] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[Halloween]

and i really doubt that even the female readers of SJ cares much about representation

Probably because feminism isn't that prevalent in Japan.

But even ignoring that, I feel your points are a bit too reductive. You can always strive for better, even if something is "accepted".

 

[Shinuki no Reborn]

Probably because feminism isn't that prevalent in Japan.

But even ignoring that, I feel your points are a bit too reductive. You can always strive for better, even if something is "accepted".

I don't think this has to do with lack of feminism, is just that what a big part of japanese girls are looking for in Shonen Jump isn't feminist mangas or feminist pandering by authors in mangas, specially considering is just a shounen magazine aimed mainly for boys, they just like the whole cute/hot guys doing things, friendship forever and etc.

And the problem with this is that i don't see being "progressive" or "feminist" just for the sake of it as "striving to be better", isn't like any author on Shonen Jump is literally trying to make woman looks like inferior to man, trying to be sexist, misogynist and etc, i think is the opposite today, but they're doing this in a much more natural way than what happens on current western pop culture, so for me this topic is just "meh...", and that's it for me.

 

[Thores]

This is like the third time in the past three days that a poster has said "I'm out of this conversation", and then immediately rejoined the conversation to further argue their point. Why even say it at this point?

I do agree that most Shonen Jump mangaka aren't trying to be sexist. But there's internalized misogyny and some backwards ideals in a lot of different manga, and the fact that the writers are unaware that it's backwards almost makes the problem worse.

 

[chrisbj]

Yaiba is really about to flirt with 1 million individual volume sales within a year. I don't think anyone saw that coming.i predicted a peak of 750k within a year but it's selling that in a month.

 

[Paze]

Probably because feminism isn't that prevalent in Japan.

But even ignoring that, I feel your points are a bit too reductive. You can always strive for better, even if something is "accepted".

There is feminism in Japan, but I think they don't try to influence pop culture as much, I believe when the UN was pushing Japan and other countries to censor some kinds of ****** a big women's group in Japan said this is a waste of time so they dropped it.

Feminism is very prevaliant in South Korea and pushed for pop culture changes, but as a result they enacted limitations and censorship on their comics market, so keep in mind the possible downsides.

Boichi who is in jump now said he saw his livelihood fall apart and had to move to Japan, and he said comics in South Korea are dead. But I think they're making a comeback so he was probably exaggerating.

 

[101nemesis]

Naruto's portrayal of women has always been sad. Sakura is such a big example of this and her progress as a character from where she started to where she ended. It showed nothing for her character because she still chose the abusive fucktard who almost killed her.

And the problem with this is that i don't see being "progressive" or "feminist" just for the sake of it as "striving to be better", isn't like any author on Shonen Jump is literally trying to make woman looks like inferior to man, trying to be sexist, misogynist and etc, i think is the opposite today, but they're doing this in a much more natural way than what happens on current western pop culture, so for me this topic is just "meh...", and that's it for me.

I have to disagree. Saying that it's done in a "natural way" is exactly what's wrong with how women are portrayed in most male driven manga. It's like saying the "natural way" in movies is for men to be the hero and the heroine to be the damsel in distress.
It only seems "natural" because no one has tried to change that approach since the beginning and hence it obviously seems more familiar. Doesn't make it right.

 

[Shinuki no Reborn]

This is like the third time in the past three days that a poster has said "I'm out of this conversation", and then immediately rejoined the conversation to further argue their point. Why even say it at this point?

I do agree that most Shonen Jump mangaka aren't trying to be sexist. But there's internalized misogyny and some backwards ideals in a lot of different manga, and the fact that the writers are unaware that it's backwards almost makes the problem worse.

How about when someone says that they're out of the conversation, other users try to not quote them? it would be easier without being quoted many times lol

In the end of the day is just your way of think and ideas of being backwards, it doesn't make them wrong because they don't think like you.

I have to disagree. Saying that it's done in a "natural way" is exactly what's wrong with how women are portrayed in most male driven manga. It's like saying the "natural way" in movies is for men to be the hero and the heroine to be the damsel in distress.
It only seems "natural" because no one has tried to change that approach since the beginning and hence it obviously seems more familiar. Doesn't make it right.

I think you understand wrong what i mean, i'm saying that the way we see more mangas with female main characters, or stronger woman and etc appearing on Shonen Jump are done in a more natural way than what happens in western pop culture when everything has to be done in a political way, has to be in your face, a example being the director of the the new Terminator movie literally saying the movie will "scare the shit out of misogynists" just because it have a main female cast (as if it's anything new in the franchise), or the whole backlash with Crunchyroll original "anime" made by "only women, no men allowed", you don't see any kind of stuff like this in the manga/anime industry, the authors just do it without trying to make it political or make anyone feel like they hate woman and etc.

 

[Koni]

Going back to Jump, I think the magazine as a whole has gotten quite a bit better with it's female characters, though it's still got a ways to go in many respects.

 

[Shinuki no Reborn]

Is the toc coming out today? i think #50 will either be Black Clover or Jujutsu Kaisen (unless new series start, almost sure Beast Children is ending this week)

 

[Halloween]

Is the toc coming out today?

People in the know think it will.

 

[Konja9]

There is feminism in Japan, but I think they don't try to influence pop culture as much, I believe when the UN was pushing Japan and other countries to censor some kinds of ****** a big women's group in Japan said this is a waste of time so they dropped it.

Feminism is very prevaliant in South Korea and pushed for pop culture changes, but as a result they enacted limitations and censorship on their comics market, so keep in mind the possible downsides.

Boichi who is in jump now said he saw his livelihood fall apart and had to move to Japan, and he said comics in South Korea are dead. But I think they're making a comeback so he was probably exaggerating.

I've seen Korean webtoons, I don't know how these could be considered censored.

Also, feminism and censoring doesn't need to be related. I mean feminism isn't strong in China, but the censoring is pretty strong there.

 

[Paze]

I've seen Korean webtoons, I don't know how these could be considered censored.

Also, feminism and censoring doesn't need to be related. I mean feminism isn't strong in China, but the censoring is pretty strong there.

Hmm well then I don't know why Boichi said that. I wasn't trying to imply feminism is responsible for all censorship in the world, sorry If it came off that way.

 

[Tamil]

I don't think Toriko's lack of female characters means it treated its female cast the worst. There were still decent/good female characters like Froese, Melk the second & Setsuno. Ofc there were not so good characters like Rin but overall it wasnt great but definitely not the worst.

Anime producers even added that filler journalist since they judged the manga lacked women.

I don't know if it's the manga which handles its females worse, but from what I've read in Chainsawman (not much tbh), it's the manga that annoys me the most. I felt almost like the author hates women.

You mean Tina? I thought she was added to make it more kid friendly more so than the series lacked women. Hence her gourmet TV segment.

I never felt that way about CSM tbh. Honestly I agree with Shokugeki but even then I doubt its the worst. I feel like I'm forgetting another series.

 

[Vizard]

Bokutachi wa Benkyou ga Dekinai #14 (With Anime BD Version)

Hidarikiki no Eren #10

 

[Koni]

Bokutachi wa Benkyou ga Dekinai #14 (With Anime DB Version)

Hidarikiki no Eren #10

So is the WNL cover a limited edition or something? Sorry, I'm just a bit confused. Also, I'm honestly not sure who'll win between Fumino and Mafuyu. One has the best chemistry with the MC but comparatively little screentime, the other is literally the most popular female character that's ever been put on a WSJ poll but is a teacher with ties to the MC's father.

 

[Nemesis]

WSM puts out full-blown sex scenes for two weeks in a row and no one bats an eye.

Jump shows some nipples in a roundabout way and everyone loses their mind

It's because we're on the west, so those things only will have repercussion if it happens there. The only magazine that exists here and people mostly know is Shonen Jump (even more in anime circles). The rest no one even know the name of them even in the manga space (as we don't consume manga via magazines, and most people don't search information about the industry), and most people even think that shonen jump is a company, not just a magazine.

 

[Shinuki no Reborn]

So is the WNL cover a limited edition or something? Sorry, I'm just a bit confused. Also, I'm honestly not sure who'll win between Fumino and Mafuyu. One has the best chemistry with the MC but comparatively little screentime, the other is literally the most popular female character that's ever been put on a WSJ poll but is a teacher with ties to the MC's father.

Is a limited edition with the OVA beach included, so it will split the sales of volume 14 a little, probably WNL will seems like is selling less because of it

 

[iamnightwing]

KNY 17 is #1 on Monday and Tuesday in the daily ranking at Shoseki...
http://shosekiranking.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-2845.html

What's the over/under odds it has on dethroning OP at the yearly Oricon chart? I imagine it's over 50% now...

 

[Nemesis]

Naruto's portrayal of women has always been sad. Sakura is such a big example of this and her progress as a character from where she started to where she ended. It showed nothing for her character because she still chose the abusive fucktard who almost killed her.



I have to disagree. Saying that it's done in a "natural way" is exactly what's wrong with how women are portrayed in most male driven manga. It's like saying the "natural way" in movies is for men to be the hero and the heroine to be the damsel in distress.
It only seems "natural" because no one has tried to change that approach since the beginning and hence it obviously seems more familiar. Doesn't make it right.

About your second point, this isn't exactly a thing only from male focused works. It literally has a similar problem on Josei and Shoujo demographics, which is 95% written by women unlike Shonen and Seinen which has a more fair distribution of man and woman authors and artists. I have read a sizeable number of manga from both demographics and there's many examples of fetishzation of rape, abuse and many things, which is never mentioned on the west because for the most part, we only comment about works from shonen and seinen.

 

[Ryuusei]

I just took a look at Shoseki and KNY volume 17 has been #1 for 4 days now and the backlog is still selling pretty well. Given how the backlog has probably sold 40k+ (we need Oricon's numbers to have a concrete idea) for each volume just last week and they are on track to sell well this week again, there's a higher possibility that KNY will take over the #1 spot in yearly sales in the following weeks. Also, Samurai 8 volume 1 dropped out of the daily ranking, but weirdly enough volume 2 is still charting (it's at #415).