Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2020] - Discussion and ToC Talk

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Shinuki no Reborn

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MANGAHELPERS "TOC" POLL ISSUE #51 - VOTING!​

The poll for issue #51 is now open, vote for your favorite chapters of the week clicking HERE!

Alongside the release of Sakamoto Days, the extra series this week are:

-Dragon Ball Super 66
-Boruto: Naruto Next Generations 52
-Ghost Reaper Girl 10


Good Votes!
 
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Halloween

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Moderator Notice:
Henceforth, I will be deleting posts that complain about Weekly Shonen Jump having too many/not enough gag/battle/exorcism/sports/etc series.

These posts are not insightful, and do not meaningfully contribute to this thread. Also, this decision is not up for discussion, so posts discussing this decision will also be deleted.~ Halloween
 
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Ryuusei

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呪 僕 O マ ブ S C D 破 C B 夜 C 僕 あ 灼 ぼ チ 高 ア 森 A 仄 ぼ 次号カラー ヒロアカ アンデラ 夜桜 約ネバ 道産子 GIGA 岸本先生が描くコラボポスター 爆豪クリアファイル
Jujutsu Kaisen (Cover & LCP)
My Hero Academia
One Piece
Mashle
Black Clover
Sakamoto Days (CP)
Dr. Stone
Magu-chan: God of Destruction (CP)
Build King
Mission: Yozakura Family
Me & Roboco
Ayakashi Triangle (CP)
Shakunetsu no Niraikanai
We Never Learn
Chainsaw Man
Koukousei Kazoku
Undead Unluck
Moriking
Agravity Boys
Honomieru Shounen
Bokura no Ketsumei

Issue #1
Cover & LCP: My Hero Academia
CP: Undead Unluck, Mission: Yozakura Family, The Promised Neverland, Dosanko Gyaru wa Namaramenkoi

GIGA Preview
Collab poster by Kishimoto
Bakugou clear file
 
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NyanPower

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Facts. Facts. Facts. Tell him. KNY was already popular but it only boosted this much because of how good the adaptation was and that's an indisputable fact. The story is very basic and you can't argue with that. (Not saying it's bad ffs) If it was animated but like JC staff or something, that wouldn't have looked as good and the boost wouldn't have been that big
Facts? Then show me your proofs. If you have them, I will be gladly listen to you.

Tokyo Ghoul had a horrible adaptation from what I’ve heard, yet it got a modest boost.
Gotoubun no Hanayome had a very cheap adaptation, yet it got a big boost.
Bleach had a so and so adaptation from what I’ve heard, yet it got a huge boost.
Naruto had a questionable adaptation at times, yet it is now one of the biggest titles ever.
And I could go on and on.

You see, you can’t say that if Yaiba got a mediocre adaptation it wouldn’t have had the same boost, there’s no proof at all. Of course Ufotable played a big part here, but as many already said, there’s no way it would be selling like this if the content was bad to begin with.

You should just accept the fact the Kimetsu no Yaiba is one of the biggest titles WSJ had this decade.
 

DreamcastDazia

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Facts? Then show me your proofs. If you have them, I will be gladly listen to you.

Tokyo Ghoul had a horrible adaptation from what I’ve heard, yet it got a modest boost.
Gotoubun no Hanayome had a very cheap adaptation, yet it got a big boost.
Bleach had a so and so adaptation from what I’ve heard, yet it got a huge boost.
Naruto had a questionable adaptation at times, yet it is now one of the biggest titles ever.
And I could go on and on.

You see, you can’t say that if Yaiba got a mediocre adaptation it wouldn’t have had the same boost, there’s no proof at all. Of course Ufotable played a big part here, but as many already said, there’s no way it would be selling like this if the content was bad to begin with.

You should just accept the fact the Kimetsu no Yaiba is one of the biggest titles WSJ had this decade.
Facts? Then show me your proofs. If you have them, I will be gladly listen to you.

Tokyo Ghoul had a horrible adaptation from what I’ve heard, yet it got a modest boost.
Gotoubun no Hanayome had a very cheap adaptation, yet it got a big boost.
Bleach had a so and so adaptation from what I’ve heard, yet it got a huge boost.
Naruto had a questionable adaptation at times, yet it is now one of the biggest titles ever.
And I could go on and on.

You see, you can’t say that if Yaiba got a mediocre adaptation it wouldn’t have had the same boost, there’s no proof at all. Of course Ufotable played a big part here, but as many already said, there’s no way it would be selling like this if the content was bad to begin with.

You should just accept the fact the Kimetsu no Yaiba is one of the biggest titles WSJ had this decade.
Good lord. I'm using the words fact in a way that's like basically saying "I agree with you 100%" I don't mean he is literally telling facts.
And this sentence "You should just accept the fact the Kimetsu no Yaiba is one of the biggest titles WSJ had this decade." I don't quite know why you said that.

I already accepted it. I'm happy that Demon Slayer beat One Piece ffs and I'm more of a Ome Piece fan than I am a Demon Slayer one. I just don't get how someone can say that the same boost would have happened regardless which studio animated it. It's obvious that ufotable is the reason why the anime came out so good
 

Nemesis

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Completely agree with your assessment.
Anime adaptations are , afterall, an exposure of the manga content to a wide audience, if the content is lackluster or dont hold major appeal, it wont see a "kimetsu" boost
That's true for the west since manga and comics in general aren't that big (France being a exception and US in the 90s for superhero comics), but I wouldn't say that to japan. Anime of course will help it with a boost, after all, it's one of the parts of a media mix that all companies do since ever, much like manga adaptations for anime and LN. But manga in itself is already really big in JP even without anime due to the culture of reading, even more now that there's digital buying, digital magazines on apps/websites, amateur manga on pixiv and twitter, etc. Unlike here where only when anime exists that people know things, in JP a ton of series already have a sizeable public before the adaptation because the media mix even before the anime is already reaching them.
 

101nemesis

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I do think some posters need to calm down when talking about this.
Don't want Buranchi-sensei getting annoyed with the vibe here and removing comments, do we?

I just don't get how someone can say that the same boost would have happened regardless which studio animated it. It's obvious that ufotable is the reason why the anime came out so good
Ufotable's adaptation means nothing if the source is shitty. The most important thing for any adaptation is to have a good source material. There's no point in investing time and money into something that's clearly bad...unless that's what the general appeal tends to be.

But a case where the adaptation fails the source is if it was marketed towards the wrong audience.
Prime example being Toriko. Anime's prime audience were little children and thereby got censored which was definitely not the direction that series should've gone.
THAT definitely affected it's growth potential.

No one can predict what will succeed or not. But (not to blow my own horn), I was very sure KnY had more potential than BC and could even hit 500k. Hitting 1 million and beyond is something I did not see happening in my lifetime but here we are. It just shows KNY had everything going for it to appeal to a wide variety of mainstream audience.
 

Shinuki no Reborn

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That isn't ONLY Ufotable the reason why Kimetsu no Yaiba is so much popular, is true, but you will never convince me that if Black Clover for example, had the same anime production, it wouldn't be selling waaay more than what its selling, despite all the problems the production had from day 1, the terrible animation and etc, the manga were still able to go over 300k/400k at most, now imagine BC fights with that level of animation, coreography and etc from Kimetsu no Yaiba in every episode, people on Twitter/Youtube already go crazy with the great scenes that the staff are able to do from time to time, if it was like that but from day 1 the boost would be way bigger and also have longer legs, so really, i don't buy this "Black Clover just didn't have a good enough material in the start" one bit, the manga would definitely reach much more if it wasnt the bad animation and slow pace by the staff from the start, but at least is popular enough to keep going on.
 

Rain Spectre

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Let's spin the argument around, what exactly is the elements that give Kimetsu such a wide appeal? Because we've debated a lot if it's the anime or no, but never the why that is.
 

wothab

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That isn't ONLY Ufotable the reason why Kimetsu no Yaiba is so much popular, is true, but you will never convince me that if Black Clover for example, had the same anime production, it wouldn't be selling waaay more than what its selling, despite all the problems the production had from day 1, the terrible animation and etc, the manga were still able to go over 300k/400k at most, now imagine BC fights with that level of animation, coreography and etc from Kimetsu no Yaiba in every episode, people on Twitter/Youtube already go crazy with the great scenes that the staff are able to do from time to time, if it was like that but from day 1 the boost would be way bigger and also have longer legs, so really, i don't buy this "Black Clover just didn't have a good enough material in the start" one bit, the manga would definitely reach much more if it wasnt the bad animation and slow pace by the staff from the start, but at least is popular enough to keep going on.
I personally dont believe Black Clover would explode like Kimetsu.
If it had a good adaptation nothing stops it from going the fire force/dr.stone route of good/decent adaptations which led to minimal boosts.
 

Shinuki no Reborn

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I personally dont believe Black Clover would explode like Kimetsu.
If it had a good adaptation nothing stops it from going the fire force/dr.stone route of good/decent adaptations which led to minimal boosts.
Of course i don't think it would explode like Yaiba, but the entire point is that despite the very bad production in the beginning it was able to rise from 150k to over 300k, so the manga is already on a league above FF and Stone.
 

101nemesis

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1.5x to 2x is the general boost most series from WSJ get with an anime. BC falls within that range.
Also, we need to stop acting like BCs anime was a low budget crap fest. It wasn't. It very clearly has an average level of production and budget into it, especially for something that is in a long running format.

Now. Here's a series.
World Trigger.

The anime it received was arguably the lowest budget a studio could provide for a battle manga's (from WSJ) first anime season.
A much slower growth both before the anime and after the anime when compared to something like BC. Its sales increase was initially as low as something Dr. Stone. But now, despite coming back from a hiatus, it sells close to 400k if not more.

WT managed to keep going up despite an extremely low budget anime. If the logic that a poorly done anime, despite a good source material = low sales boost then WT should not be outselling BC before the hiatus let alone after it.
 

Shinuki no Reborn

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1.5x to 2x is the general boost most series from WSJ get with an anime. BC falls within that range.
Also, we need to stop acting like BCs anime was a low budget crap fest. It wasn't. It very clearly has an average level of production and budget into it, especially for something that is in a long running format.
I don't think you watched Black Clover, at least more than 3 episodes, average production? it would be great if it was the case kkkkk

Also, the point isn't doing comparisons with who had the worst production but the fact that if with a bad production it was able to pull of a decent to good boost, what wouldn't be able to do with a Yaiba's level of production?
 
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Halloween

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WT managed to keep going up despite an extremely low budget anime. If the logic that a poorly done anime, despite a good source material = low sales boost then WT should not be outselling BC before the hiatus let alone after it.
Toriko definitely is a valid counter to this, though. Not to say Toriko didn't get a big boost, but I really do feel a well-done adaptation in the same vein as Ufotable, would have made it go way higher.

Hell, I'd go as far as to say that if Toriko had an exceptional adaptation, it'd likely still be running.
 

Shinuki no Reborn

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Toriko definitely is a valid counter to this, though. Not to say Toriko didn't get a big boost, but I really do feel a well-done adaptation in the same vein as Ufotable, would have made it go way higher.

Hell, I'd go as far as to say that if Toriko had an exceptional adaptation, it'd likely still be running.
The irony of the Jump Festa OVA being by Ufotable, imagine what could have been for Toriko...
 

Rain Spectre

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Toriko definitely is a valid counter to this, though. Not to say Toriko didn't get a big boost, but I really do feel a well-done adaptation in the same vein as Ufotable, would have made it go way higher.

Hell, I'd go as far as to say that if Toriko had an exceptional adaptation, it'd likely still be running.
I'd dispute that. Toriko's appeal became very limited as time went on and readers taste changed. Even if the anime were adequate, it likely still fall off due to the weak character writing and extremely retro art-style.
 

DreamcastDazia

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I don't think you watched Black Clover, at least more than 3 episodes, average production? it would be great if it was the case kkkkk

Also, the point isn't doing comparisons with who had the worst production but the fact that if with a bad production it was able to pull of a decent to good boost, what wouldn't be able to do with a Yaiba's level of production?
I don't even think he watched Black Clover now. Every time I check a few clips, if it isn't some major fight there is seriously something going wrong in the scenes for example the contestant off model faces. Everything just looks jarring all the time. The music is terrible too and that really doesn't help.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Toriko definitely is a valid counter to this, though. Not to say Toriko didn't get a big boost, but I really do feel a well-done adaptation in the same vein as Ufotable, would have made it go way higher.

Hell, I'd go as far as to say that if Toriko had an exceptional adaptation, it'd likely still be running.
Bruh, Ufotable adapted the first chapter of Toriko and it's 1000000x better than anything toei did with it.

We need a toriko remake ASAP
--- Double Post Merged, ---

I'd dispute that. Toriko's appeal became very limited as time went on and readers taste changed. Even if the anime were adequate, it likely still fall off due to the weak character writing and extremely retro art-style.
Man said weak character writing...
 

NeeNeen

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TSE now in MANGA Plus.

And so, the new MANGA Plus schedule should be this one, with 1 series left? Who knows, since they're picking up a shitton of stuff, anything can happen. Got the SQ ones right tho, so should work.
I was wondering if they'd ever add that, I guess now's the perfect timing to start from the newest chapter.
Yeah... "start from the newest chapter" is about all you'll be able to do, since they only posted chapter 1-3 and then 77. There isn't even the usual spoiler warning in between. Which is unfortunate, because chapter 77 is a semi-sequel that spoils basically everything the first chapters set up.
 

lazybones1717

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I wouldn't really call Black Clover's adaptation good in any sense, but the fact that the staff can still put out great episodes like #100 (and even decent ones like #104) on their hell-hole of a schedule with a lack of resources really speaks to Tatsuya Yoshihara's strength as a director. They're definitely doing the best they can with the situation they've been given.
 

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Yeah... "start from the newest chapter" is about all you'll be able to do, since they only posted chapter 1-3 and then 77. There isn't even the usual spoiler warning in between. Which is unfortunate, because chapter 77 is a semi-sequel that spoils basically everything the first chapters set up.
I haven't read twin star in years. I don't think I can ever catch up now. It's too long.
 

Shinuki no Reborn

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If the "extremely retro artstyle" was a problem, it would be from the start, Toriko is a 2008 manga, it was already super retro at the time but it's actually part of the charm of the series, i would say that Toei ending the anime at the time definitely hurted the manga a lot, it had all the problems but still a anime that was doing quite good at Sundays and keeping Toriko relevant for kids and overall readers.

I don't even think he watched Black Clover now. Every time I check a few clips, if it isn't some major fight there is seriously something going wrong in the scenes for example the contestant off model faces. Everything just looks jarring all the time. The music is terrible too and that really doesn't help.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
I was talking more about the beginning (first 50/60 episodes) where it was truly terrible, by now the adaptation is what i would call "average" with some good or great sequences but it's really stepped up from the beginning, still could be so much better.
 

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If the "extremely retro artstyle" was a problem, it would be from the start, Toriko is a 2008 manga, it was already super retro at the time but it's actually part of the charm of the series, i would say that Toei ending the anime at the time definitely hurted the manga a lot, it had all the problems but still a anime that was doing quite good at Sundays and keeping Toriko relevant for kids and overall readers.
This is a good point, but also, the main thing that stood out about Toriko was the world building.

It had, by far, the best world building in a series I've read, second only to One Piece. Although, I found the world in Toriko to be more interesting than One Piece's world.

Another thing I'd like to add, though. Toriko is not a series that is an especially great marathon read. It's a series that requires process time, and speculation, week to week.

Marathoning through it quickly will confuse new readers, since they'll likely not pick up on the subtle foreshadowing Shimabu sprinkled in. Or, for instance, the part where Teppei's head was in the food bowl.

That moment loses all impact when you can just instantly go to the next chapter. There's a lot of moments like that in Toriko, where you NEED to wait, to speculate, to absorb what you're reading.

So, when a person quickly marathons the series and tries to weigh in on the strengths and weaknesses of the series, it comes off as disingenuous, since they didn't experience the series the intended way. And I think that's a problem with a lot of other series and not just Toriko.

So many series benefit from week to week processing, and theorizing from other fans. Some series you can blast through quickly and lose nothing for it, but a lot of them aren't like that.
 
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