Discussion Best Defense, Endurance, Durability - Finished

[Kiki]

Top 10!

10th place (score: 20)

Skullion Raider
@One4All (3) @IamtherealMirajane (5) @Ebony Maw (4) @Ajeel Ramal (3) @Jko (5)​

 

[grey matter]

No need for the language guys....it's a civil discussion

Yeah I know, I was civil in my first response. The guy started being aggressive, I'm just responding in kind

 

[Kiki]

9th place (score: 26)

God Serena
@Sevently (5) @grey matter (7) @Takuan (2) @Jko (7) @lakhan220 (5)​

 

[lakhan220]

Works only when opponen'ts relative magic power is similar or lower.
Why are we even discussing this, you bought up her offense for no reason in a post about tankiness

And not many characters in FT with magic above her. U asked me why and i responded to why i placed her there.
U could have ignored but u did respond with ridiculing the offense. So, simple, I responded in kind.

Stop with the retarded platitudes, we're talking about technical defense. She can barely dodge lucy tier attacks, which means anyone with respectable speed fodderize her

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Getting BLITZED by Lucy

It is really funny u need to post tht panel link but purely ignore few pages afterwards. Tht battle was FARCE. Brandish was just putting up an act there. Simple. Lucy tier attacks would not even touch her.
https://i8.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/501/fairy-tail-8205169.jpg
https://i2.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/501/fairy-tail-8205175.jpg

You didn't say shit except that her durability is verified.

Because i don't need to say shit when it is already clear as a day.

She was getting rekt by Neinhart who got fodderized by base Natsu. GTFOH.

And what happened to tht base natsu then ?
Even OP zeref was fodderized by base natsu. Guess even he is at lower level, right ?
I would love it if u would offer something better. I m getting bored tbh.

Yeah, saving Gray while Skullion not noticing because she being far off is top tier feat too. Lul
Brandish was holding back against Lucy in the sense that she didn't just explode her organs. The fact is that she was getting injured by Lucy. She's all magic power and hax, with fodder tier physical stats.

Is it tht hard to see tht LUCY could not have even attacked her in 1st place had she desired ? meaning she was deliberately taking those attacks.
And as i said to takuan. She had minimized mira's injury who was injured by AUGUST - means potential to do same to her injuries as well. Meaning she can absorb a lot of damage. Simple

August was affected by Cana's magic, but showed no injuries form her attacks. His tankiness is not shit because he tanked GILDARTS' attack that he wasn't immune to, while being off guard

Brandish too survived Dimaria's attack going by very same analogy.

Wank. She has no feats of being a tank.

Already replied to takuan below u . So, not going to type it again & am not interested in any further discussion on this topic.

No need for the language guys....it's a civil discussion

was just having fun after a long time. MEH, will keep it for later.

Yeah I know, I was civil in my first response. The guy started being aggressive, I'm just responding in kind

Aggressive ? LMAO. Boy, I have not even started an inch of aggressiveness. And u were civil? News to me.

Her tankiness is shit lmao

Ur initial response. HOW CIVIL, right . MEH w/e. let's get this over with.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 3, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 3, 2020 ---

11th place (score: 15)

Mirajane Strauss
@Seven777 (1) @IamtherealMirajane (8) @Jko (4) @Jean Grey (2)





top 10 soon! who are in it? who are in top 3????? *drum noises*

I totally forgot to include MIRA.

 

[grey matter]

And not many characters in FT with magic above her. U asked me why and i responded to why i placed her there.
U could have ignored but u did respond with ridiculing the offense. So, simple, I responded in kind.

All said said was that her offense is debatable, and then said it's not related to tankiness anyway. If you think that was 'ridicule', that's on you. It clearly fucking wasn't.
All top tiers in the FT have magic power above her. Natsu in any of his powered up form, Gray after invel, Laxus, Jellal, buff'd Erza, DF Gajeel are sure. Mira is a maybe.
More than half the Spriggans also, sure.
You were the one who even bought it up when I just asked how was Brandish tanky.

It is really funny u need to post tht panel link but purely ignore few pages afterwards. Tht battle was FARCE. Brandish was just putting up an act there. Simple. Lucy tier attacks would not even touch her.
https://i8.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/501/fairy-tail-8205169.jpg
https://i2.mangareader.net/fairy-tail/501/fairy-tail-8205175.jpg

I clearly mentioned that: yes, she was holding back. Just because she was holding back doesn't mean she wasn't blitzed there. You next pages are irrelevant to that fact.
She got blitzed by Lucy = her defense is shit. Any character with respectable speed and offense instantly blitz and end her.

Because i don't need to say shit when it is already clear as a day.

Said said jack about BRadnish's durability except that it's 'verified' and now say it's clear. Ok big guy

And what happened to tht base natsu then ?
Even OP zeref was fodderized by base natsu. Guess even he is at lower level, right ?
I would love it if u would offer something better. I m getting bored tbh.

Yeah, she enlarged organs of Natsu who didn't pay attention because he thought she was an ally. Great feat there.
Base Zeref needed DF Natsu to be matched.
God Zeref was beaten by Natsu with all of the guild's power combined, it was clearly mentioned and his guild mark was shown glowing.
And lets not act like Zeref was casually one shotted by a punch from Natsu, unlike fodder Neinhart was.

Is it tht hard to see tht LUCY could not have even attacked her in 1st place had she desired ? meaning she was deliberately taking those attacks.
And as i said to takuan. She had minimized mira's injury who was injured by AUGUST - means potential to do same to her injuries as well. Meaning she can absorb a lot of damage. Simple

She can minimize injury, but not in middle of the fight. She's not gonna shrink her injury if she's taken out cold lmao.
But still that's a valid point, I'll agree there......just that it cannot be applied in the middle of the fight.

Brandish too survived Dimaria's attack going by very same analogy.

Big difference between August outright tanking Gildart's spell, and Brandish being left for the dead by Dimaria. You really aren't good at this lmao

Already0 replied to takuan below u . So, not going to type it again & am not interested in any further discussion on this topic.

I saw it, it was basically you saying she tanked Lucy and that she can shrink injuried.
Taking Lucy's attacks with injuries is nothing to be proud of lmao.

Aggressive ? LMAO. Boy, I have not even started an inch of aggressiveness. And u were civil? News to me.


Ur initial response. HOW CIVIL, right . MEH w/e. let's get this over with.

Neither have I, I'm gonna end up getting from the site banned if I do.

Me saying Brandish's tankiness is shit was in no way anything directed at you. Yes, I was civil to you in the beginning, inspite of you going off topic with her offense, defense and what-not when all I asked was about her tankiness.

 

[lakhan220]

All said said was that her offense is debatable, and then said it's not related to tankiness anyway. If you think that was 'ridicule', that's on you. It clearly fucking wasn't.
All top tiers in the FT have magic power above her. Natsu in any of his powered up form, Gray after invel, Laxus, Jellal, buff'd Erza, DF Gajeel are sure. Mira is a maybe.
More than half the Spriggans also, sure.
You were the one who even bought it up when I just asked how was Brandish tanky.

It is quite clear u didn't get at all. I mentioned her offense as her offense ability is related to her durability - ability to endure - her tankiness. It is tht simple.
Pretty sure natsu, gajeel, erza , laxus are not the only characters in FT. As for Spriggans, quite debatable.

I clearly mentioned that: yes, she was holding back. Just because she was holding back doesn't mean she wasn't blitzed there. You next pages are irrelevant to that fact.
She got blitzed by Lucy = her defense is shit. Any character with respectable speed and offense instantly blitz and end her.

Nope, u r totally ignoring the fact she deliberately let lucy injure her, which does not prove jack at all abt her speed or anything else. For all we know, she was holding back. So, no, not irrelevant .

Said said jack about BRadnish's durability except that it's 'verified' and now say it's clear. Ok big guy

U want me to type every damn time abt tht when i have mentioned just in the post below BOI ? Sorry, not tht much of a kind person.

Yeah, she enlarged organs of Natsu who didn't pay attention because he thought she was an ally. Great feat there.

Tht is me pointing out the inconsistency which u are banking on. Brandish not able to harm neinhart purely might be due to irene's magic which was on him. But brandish took out Natsu, who has superior MP to Neinhart.........So, any basis to claim it is impossible to not be able to do to others bar few ?
+ U already know MIRA one. Reduced injury done by superior mage AUGUST.

Base Zeref needed DF Natsu to be matched.
God Zeref was beaten by Natsu with all of the guild's power combined, it was clearly mentioned and his guild mark was shown glowing.
And lets not act like Zeref was casually one shotted by a punch from Natsu, unlike fodder Neinhart was.

Yep, GOD ZEREF was taken out by base natsu is a fact. Guild mark glowing means at most 12-15-50 members where as GOD ZEREF had infinite MP + Time magic..........Calculate the difference and u may get the analogy.
And nope, he is not fodder . But u used analogy of base Natsu & neinhart to downplay brandish. Thus, i m pointing out the same using similar one.

She can minimize injury, but not in middle of the fight. She's not gonna shrink her injury if she's taken out cold lmao.
But still that's a valid point, I'll agree there......just that it cannot be applied in the middle of the fight.

Well, quite debatable because why not ? Her very basic magic of offense is tht. I have not seen anything indicating she can't do so.
Even if said condition was applicable, in middle of fight, create barrier arnd her and in very moment minimise injury....meaning ways are available.

Thus her versatility also plays a part here.

Big difference between August outright tanking Gildart's spell, and Brandish being left for the dead by Dimaria. You really aren't good at this lmao

The only thing AUGUST tanked was the robotic arm attack of gildarts. If u r referring cardia cathedral, then no proof AUGUST might not have negated the spell with copy. But benefit of doubt given.
Naah, u r not seeing the picture. AUGUST got to block. BRANDISH didn't get to block and suffered full brunt of the attack. And yet, she survived.

I saw it, it was basically you saying she tanked Lucy and that she can shrink injuried.
Taking Lucy's attacks with injuries is nothing to be proud of lmao.

If u had seen it, there was no point of discussion because pretty sure LUCY point i have addressed and also had included MIRA one,.

Neither have I, I'm gonna end up getting from the site banned if I do.

Me saying Brandish's tankiness is shit was in no way anything directed at you. Yes, I was civil to you in the beginning, inspite of you going off topic with her offense, defense and what-not when all I asked was about her tankiness.

Sorry but off topic is not uncivil and it clearly was not since have already established relations as to why so.
Well, u quoted my post, so ofc it would be taken as tht....U in no way had clarified ur directions.

And NP, u can come back after some time after getting banned Worth experiencing it.

U can request @Kiki for this.

 

[Fyron]

I think I'll have to intervene here because I don't agree with some points.

It is quite clear u didn't get at all. I mentioned her offense as her offense ability is related to her durability - ability to endure - her tankiness. It is tht simple.
Pretty sure natsu, gajeel, erza , laxus are not the only characters in FT. As for Spriggans, quite debatable.

No , her offense =× durability. Larcade's offense hax can floor Laxus , yet gets KOed by WSD Sting.

Tht is me pointing out the inconsistency which u are banking on. Brandish not able to harm neinhart purely might be due to irene's magic which was on him. But brandish took out Natsu, who has superior MP to Neinhart.........So, any basis to claim it is impossible to not be able to do to others bar few ?
+ U already know MIRA one. Reduced injury done by superior mage AUGUST.

We're assuming it's magic power because Brandish said that she cannot affect END because his magic power is way more than her. And END's tumor was willingly rejecting all contact , hence Brandish couldn't affect him. She shrunk August's wound too , August's MP > Brandish's MP. Natsu wasn't aware that Brandish is gonna use her magic on him.

Yep, GOD ZEREF was taken out by base natsu is a fact. Guild mark glowing means at most 12-15-50 members where as GOD ZEREF had infinite MP + Time magic..........Calculate the difference and u may get the analogy.

There's no difference in power between God Zeref and Base Zeref. It's a misconception that God Zeref is somehow more stronger than Base Zeref. What Fairy Heart does is it just provides a supply of infinite magic. How much magic you can funnel out of it depends. It was stated that if FH was used for Etherion , an unlimited number of Etherions could be fired. FH increases your magic stamina to neverending , doesn't mean your attacks should be stronger. Zeref's strongest attack matched Natsu's attack combined with POF + power of guild and was overpowered and knocked out. It means PoF Natsu + power of guild > Zeref. We've seen power of guild is capable of no selling Acnologia's strongest attack , if it was used against Neinhart even his bones and blood would not remain.

And nope, he is not fodder . But u used analogy of base Natsu & neinhart to downplay brandish. Thus, i m pointing out the same using similar one.

I would say Base Natsu > Brandish and Neinhart provided he can react to her because her magic is instantaneous.


But I would still say Brandish is capable of beating Neinhart if she uses her magic the right way. Like , she can turn herself into a giant and squish him. She probably could even beat Base Natsu like that. But the problem is she doesn't .

 

[lakhan220]

I think I'll have to intervene here because I don't agree with some points.

No need to be so formal. U r all welcome to state ur opinion. This is more of a discussion thread. Just tht due to new years, it is pretty stagnant.

No , her offense =× durability. Larcade's offense hax can floor Laxus , yet gets KOed by WSD Sting.

A bit different as larcade's offense cannot be used for defense (literal damage reduction) . What i meant was Brandish's offense ability can be used to minimize her wounds and increase her ability to withstand attacks. Her offense ability used for defense & durability as well, making her one of the tanky mage.

We're assuming it's magic power because Brandish said that she cannot affect END because his magic power is way more than her. And END's tumor was willingly rejecting all contact , hence Brandish couldn't affect him. She shrunk August's wound too , August's MP > Brandish's MP. Natsu wasn't aware that Brandish is gonna use her magic on him.

Well, technically she is wrong because in case of END, it would be Curse power probs. Brandish said same for NEINHART too . Which. i stated above tht it is really inconsistent because AUGUST's attack with more MP can be reduced yet neinhart could not be affected ? Natsu who has greater Mp can be affected and neinhart could not be ?
Basically What u r pointing out abt MP thing is what i had stated as inconsistency in the series in above post.

So, a possibility tht it could more be a nature of magic and irene's magic might have made neinhart immune probs, not mere MP or quantity exists.

There's no difference in power between God Zeref and Base Zeref. It's a misconception that God Zeref is somehow more stronger than Base Zeref. What Fairy Heart does is it just provides a supply of infinite magic. How much magic you can funnel out of it depends. It was stated that if FH was used for Etherion , an unlimited number of Etherions could be fired. FH increases your magic stamina to neverending , doesn't mean your attacks should be stronger. Zeref's strongest attack matched Natsu's attack combined with POF + power of guild and was overpowered and knocked out. It means PoF Natsu + power of guild > Zeref. We've seen power of guild is capable of no selling Acnologia's strongest attack , if it was used against Neinhart even his bones and blood would not remain.

Debatable tbh. Since FH zeref got time access and now had MP on level of ACNO which he didn't in base form (Stated by him- can't defeat acno without FH) meaning obviously attack power and all has to get stronger else the logic is flawed.
Base Zeref's attack are not gonna hurt acno. And if in FH, he keeps on attacking with same MP but infinitely, doesn't make sense or even at all in line with plot...because tht would not accomplish anything at all. no proofs it may work on acno.

I would say Base Natsu > Brandish and Neinhart provided he can react to her because her magic is instantaneous.

base natsu is stronger which is not even debatable. Tht thing was used to draw parallels as to point out inconsistency surrounding neinhart situation, which was used to downplay brandish.

But I would still say Brandish is capable of beating Neinhart if she uses her magic the right way. Like , she can turn herself into a giant and squish him. She probably could even beat Base Natsu like that. But the problem is she doesn't .

Well, so basically sufficing conditions in terms of potential tht she is one of tanky mage with good endurance and durability, which was original point of debate between me and grey .

 

[Fyron]

A bit different as larcade's offense cannot be used for defense (literal damage reduction) . What i meant was Brandish's offense ability can be used to minimize her wounds and increase her ability to withstand attacks. Her offense ability used for defense & durability as well, making her one of the tanky mage.

Oh , okay I get it. But still , that's kinda useless if you're oneshotted by an attack right ? Like , we have got no durability feats from Brandish to suggest she can take attacks similar to what Natsu dishes out. Like Dimaria has - she tanked multiple bloodlusted attacks from END without getting KOed.

Well, technically she is wrong because in case of END, it would be Curse power probs. Brandish said same for NEINHART too . Which. i stated above tht it is really inconsistent because AUGUST's attack with more MP can be reduced yet neinhart could not be affected ? Natsu who has greater Mp can be affected and neinhart could not be ?
Basically What u r pointing out abt MP thing is what i had stated as inconsistency in the series in above post.

Well , curse power is kinda equal to magic power. And we don't know for sure whether END uses curse power or magic. Larcade is a demon too, he uses white magic. Well , Brandish reduced August's attack's aftereffects , she did not do anything to the actual attack. That isn't really a feat. Especially considering Mirajane was sleeping that time and was unaware. She didn't shrink or expand anyone's organs while they were fighting with her. What makes her dangerous is it will take just like 0.01 seconds for her to expand your brain so if you lose concentration you're done.

And obviously there are other ways where if she used her magic efficiently then she could've been a huge threat , but well ...

So, a possibility tht it could more be a nature of magic and irene's magic might have made neinhart immune probs, not mere MP or quantity exists.

Brandish kinda confirmed it was MP which mattered. Also it's NLF , will Brandish's magic affect Human Ignia or Human Mercuphobia because they have no counters against it ?

Debatable tbh. Since FH zeref got time access and now had MP on level of ACNO which he didn't in base form (Stated by him- can't defeat acno without FH) meaning obviously attack power and all has to get stronger else the logic is flawed.
Base Zeref's attack are not gonna hurt acno. And if in FH, he keeps on attacking with same MP but infinitely, doesn't make sense or even at all in line with plot...because tht would not accomplish anything at all. no proofs it may work on acno.

Zeref didn't have MP only on the lvl of Acno , he had infinite MP. Greater than 9999999 Acnos. And the reason I choose to believe this is that it's not stated just once but several times , an example is cited too that if FH was used for Etherion's power source , then an infinite number of Etherions could be fired. And if Zeref's attack power was influenced by FH , then his attack power should be infinite. Since a fraction of infinity is also infinity. Which suggests that Zeref merely has access to an infinite amount of MP , but he can't use all of that. He can only use how much Mp attacks he can dish out in base form. But , it's not necessary that he has to use his own body for utilising fairy heart's power. He can connect that FH to anything , now that he has infinite power. So he connected it to the Ravines of Time. Base Zeref didn't possess enough power to control the Ravines of Time , with FH he has infinite MP and can use it as a power source for using the Ravines of Time.

Zeref directly attacking Acno wouldn't do anything to him. First of all , that statement is moot considering he never cared about Acno and he only wanted to return to his past. His plan of defeating Acno was bullshit lie he was never gonna do anything and god knows why he even invited him to the war. Second , who said Zeref has to directly attack him. As we saw , he's capable of erasing a timeline if his FH connects to the ROT. He just has teleport away somewhere far and quickly return to the past and erase the timeline. Discarding the PIS that happened in his fight with Natsu , realistically he could've easily just ran out of the door or even teleported somewhere else and opened the door there. He's capable of teleporting even in his base form.

So FH's output varies on what you connect it to. Zeref can erase Acno if he connects FH to the ROT. But he cannot defeat Acno by himself.

base natsu is stronger which is not even debatable. Tht thing was used to draw parallels as to point out inconsistency surrounding neinhart situation, which was used to downplay brandish.

I made my view in the first points.

 

[Demon Hunter]

@lakhan220 yo fam, long time no see

Debatable tbh. Since FH zeref got time access and now had MP on level of ACNO which he didn't in base form (Stated by him- can't defeat acno without FH) meaning obviously attack power and all has to get stronger else the logic is flawed.
Base Zeref's attack are not gonna hurt acno. And if in FH, he keeps on attacking with same MP but infinitely, doesn't make sense or even at all in line with plot...because tht would not accomplish anything at all. no proofs it may work on acno.

it definitely increases his power. people just try to justify Natsu beating him

Spoiler

since FG made Cana's attack, who was an ant to Jura, superior to him and Law magic can make fodder Mavis able to one shot a Skeleton dragon then FH increases your power by MAGNITUDES.

Makarov also wanted to use it during Tartaros.

it gives you infinite MP (AKA can do many Etherions) but it also increases your stats MANY folds. since it is also a transformation then it increases everything unlike FL and FG.

since FH is way beyond Legendary Fairy Spells then it makes you a God basically.

saying FH doesn't increase your power is WRONG.

you might as well give it to Lucy then

 

[lakhan220]

@lakhan220 yo fam, long time no see


it definitely increase his power. people just try to justify Natsu beating him

Spoiler

since FG made Cana's attack, who was an ant to Jura, superior to him and Law magic can make fodder Mavis able to one shot a Skeleton dragon then FH increases your power by MAGNITUDES.

Makarov also wanted to use it during Tartaros.

it gives you infinite MP (AKA can do many Etherions) but it also increases your stats MANY folds. since it is also a transformation then it increases everything unlike FL and FG.

since FH is way beyond Legendary Fairy Spells then it makes you a God basically.

saying FH doesn't increase your power is WRONG.

you might as well give it to Lucy then

Yeah man. Long time since i participated in FT debates. So was enjoying myself a bit there. But, unlike old times, it is lacking the and debates. Has it gone so silent ?
Anyways, How have u been ?

Well, exactly man. In simple terms saying, it shld increase the power because what use is attacking with same attack infinitely if it is not gonna be at a level to affect him. ? ACNO practically would be unbeatable if it didn't increase its magnitude in terms of force.

Had forgotten abt makarov wanting to use it xDDDDD.
Also, if i m not wrong, didn't zeref basically get new abilities after he absorbed FH ?

See, NATSU got him with PoF is what we have to accept and he defeated GOD with PoF also stands true. Basically in base mode.

 

[Axiomus]

Alvarez arc basically proved that MP is useless if it doesn't translate into something physical. Zeref may have had infinite magic power, but the power he puts into his attacks are finite. We know this because Natsu's attack was stronger, and Natsu's attack was finite.

The attack that beat Zeref was a Fire Dragon King's Demolition Fist. That's an Fire Dragon King spell, and therefore not base Natsu.

I will argue that Fairy Heart Zeref is stronger than base Zeref though. Mainly because he can rewind time and reconstruct his body indefinitely unless you burn his time magic. This alone would make him much harder to beat than base Zeref.

 

[Fyron]

@lakhan220 yo fam, long time no see


it definitely increase his power. people just try to justify Natsu beating him

Spoiler

since FG made Cana's attack, who was an ant to Jura, superior to him and Law magic can make fodder Mavis able to one shot a Skeleton dragon then FH increases your power by MAGNITUDES.

Makarov also wanted to use it during Tartaros.

it gives you infinite MP (AKA can do many Etherions) but it also increases your stats MANY folds. since it is also a transformtasion so it increases everything unlike FL and FG.

since FH is way beyond Legendary Fairy Spells then it makes you a God basically.

saying FH doesn't increase your power is WRONG.

you might as well give it to Lucy then

Cana probably already has large MP , just her AP is not good enough. ( She's Gildarts' daughter , her MP should be high ) What Fairy Glitter did was it managed to bring out Cana's MP in her attacks i.e. increase her AP.

I'd reckon a dragon who's only bones doesn't have much MP.

Not just many Etherions , it allows you to do unlimited number of Etherions. If FH's power really did increase your stats , then it should increase them to infinite , not just many folds. Because a fraction of infinity is still infinity. It doesn't make sense that even 1000 Acnos would surpass FH if it really did increase your stats.

It doesn't increase your power. It's a source of unlimited magic , but it depends on what you connect it to. For example , when Zeref connected it to the Ravines of time , he was capable of erasing an entire timeline. Literally , everyone including Ignia , Mercuphobia , Acnologia , Aldoron , everyone. However , he himself with Fairy Heart is just equal to his base form.

Although some try to justify that power of guild is very strong and was capable of no selling Acnologia's attack , it shouldn't be infinite. At least that's what I believe.

 

[Demon Hunter]

Yeah man. Long time since i participated in FT debates. So was enjoying myself there. But, unlike old times, it is lacking the and debates. Has it gone so silent ?
Anyways, How have u been ?

same here. I'm a bit sick now so I have time for debates

got back during this Fighting Festival 2.0.

Well, exactly man. In simple terms saying, it shld increase the power because what use is attacking with same attack infinitely if it is not gonna be at a level to affect him. ? ACNO practically would be unbeatable if it didn't increase its magnitude in terms of force.

Had forgotten abt makarov wanting to use it xDDDDD.
Also, if i m not wrong, didn't zeref basically get new abilities after he absorbed FH ?

See, NATSU got him with PoF is what we have to accept and he defeated GOD with PoF also stands true. Basically in base mode.

yeah, basically.

FH gave Zeref a boost but Zeref probably realized he can't beat Acno head on or something so he went with easiest way possible - go back in time to create a new timeline.

yeah, he gained some new stuff.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 3, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 3, 2020 ---

Cana probably already has large MP , just her AP is not good enough. ( She's Gildarts' daughter , her MP should be high ) What Fairy Glitter did was it managed to bring out Cana's MP in her attacks i.e. increase her AP.

I'd reckon a dragon who's only bones doesn't have much MP.

Not just many Etherions , it allows you to do unlimited number of Etherions. If FH's power really did increase your stats , then it should increase them to infinite , not just many folds. Because a fraction of infinity is still infinity. It doesn't make sense that even 1000 Acnos would surpass FH if it really did increase your stats.

It doesn't increase your power. It's a source of unlimited magic , but it depends on what you connect it to. For example , when Zeref connected it to the Ravines of time , he was capable of erasing an entire timeline. Literally , everyone including Ignia , Mercuphobia , Acnologia , Aldoron , everyone. However , he himself with Fairy Heart is just equal to his base form.

Although some try to justify that power of guild is very strong and was capable of no selling Acnologia's attack , it shouldn't be infinite. At least that's what I believe.

will have to agree to disagree here fam.

 

[Axiomus]

To chip in on the Brandish durability debate.... She's not among the tankiest characters imo. She was taken out by Cana's punch, and the best attacks she has ever tanked were like cuts from Scorpio's stardress. She probably has respectable durability, but her feats don't suggest anything remarkable.

 

[Demon Hunter]

and yeah, MP is meaningless.

having bigger MP doesn't translate to victory at all.

Jacob's physical attacks are nothing and yet his MP is higher than Natsu'.

 

[Fyron]

Alvarez arc basically proved that MP is useless if it doesn't translate into something physical. Zeref may have had infinite magic power, but the power he puts into his attacks are finite. We know this because Natsu's attack was stronger, and Natsu's attack was finite.

The attack that beat Zeref was a Fire Dragon King's Demolition Fist. That's an Fire Dragon King spell, and therefore not base Natsu.

I will argue that Fairy Heart Zeref is stronger than base Zeref though. Mainly because he can rewind time and reconstruct his body indefinitely unless you burn his time magic. This alone would make him much harder to beat than base Zeref.

So you're on my side right ? You agree that FH doesn't increase Zeref's AP right ?

If I'm right , the attack which beat him was a punch from Natsu amped with power of the guild and PoF. Where did Fire Dragon King Demolition Fist come from ? If I remember correctly , it wasn't successful in burning his magic , whereas Guild Mark Natsu's attack was.

 

[lakhan220]

Oh , okay I get it. But still , that's kinda useless if you're oneshotted by an attack right ? Like , we have got no durability feats from Brandish to suggest she can take attacks similar to what Natsu dishes out. Like Dimaria has - she tanked multiple bloodlusted attacks from END without getting KOed.

DImaria tanked multiple attacks ? When ?It was offpanelled and nothing was said abt it.
Tht one shot ..sure, if it is AUGUST level mages...other than tht, not normal ones can do tht. + She can also defend instantaneously too. And if we r talking abt durability - ALong with physical, u also need to take injuries and such into consideration.

Well , curse power is kinda equal to magic power. And we don't know for sure whether END uses curse power or magic. Larcade is a demon too, he uses white magic. Well , Brandish reduced August's attack's aftereffects , she did not do anything to the actual attack. That isn't really a feat. Especially considering Mirajane was sleeping that time and was unaware. She didn't shrink or expand anyone's organs while they were fighting with her. What makes her dangerous is it will take just like 0.01 seconds for her to expand your brain so if you lose concentration you're done.

Feat as in able to heal tht injury with tht big MP. It can be applied to her body too..meaning she can also reduce hers. And when we talk abt tankiest, it specifically is concentrated on durability, endurance and Defense.
Sure, her offensive ability is better than her defense, but doesn't mean her endurance is negated. The stronger her offensive ability, stronger her powers to reduce damages......hence the reason i included her in tank mages.

And obviously there are other ways where if she used her magic efficiently then she could've been a huge threat , but well ...

Brandish kinda confirmed it was MP which mattered. Also it's NLF , will Brandish's magic affect Human Ignia or Human Mercuphobia because they have no counters against it ?

Well, tht is the inconsistency. Stating MP matters but then, results r different.

Zeref didn't have MP only on the lvl of Acno , he had infinite MP. Greater than 9999999 Acnos. And the reason I choose to believe this is that it's not stated just once but several times , an example is cited too that if FH was used for Etherion's power source , then an infinite number of Etherions could be fired. And if Zeref's attack power was influenced by FH , then his attack power should be infinite. Since a fraction of infinity is also infinity. Which suggests that Zeref merely has access to an infinite amount of MP , but he can't use all of that. He can only use how much Mp attacks he can dish out in base form. But , it's not necessary that he has to use his own body for utilising fairy heart's power. He can connect that FH to anything , now that he has infinite power. So he connected it to the Ravines of Time. Base Zeref didn't possess enough power to control the Ravines of Time , with FH he has infinite MP and can use it as a power source for using the Ravines of Time.

Zeref directly attacking Acno wouldn't do anything to him. First of all , that statement is moot considering he never cared about Acno and he only wanted to return to his past. His plan of defeating Acno was bullshit lie he was never gonna do anything and god knows why he even invited him to the war. Second , who said Zeref has to directly attack him. As we saw , he's capable of erasing a timeline if his FH connects to the ROT. He just has teleport away somewhere far and quickly return to the past and erase the timeline. Discarding the PIS that happened in his fight with Natsu , realistically he could've easily just ran out of the door or even teleported somewhere else and opened the door there. He's capable of teleporting even in his base form.

So FH's output varies on what you connect it to. Zeref can erase Acno if he connects FH to the ROT. But he cannot defeat Acno by himself.



I made my view in the first points.

Will have to agree to disagree with u here.Because clearly stats and attack power + new attacks were present. And NATSU burning - u can attribute it to PIS.

same here. I'm a bit sick now so I have time for debates

got back during this Fighting Festival 2.0.


yeah, basically.

FH gave Zeref a boost but Zeref probably realized he can't beat Acno head on or something so he went with easiest way possible - go back in time to create a new timeline.

yeah, he gained some new stuff.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 3, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 3, 2020 ---

will have to agree to disagree here fam.

xDDDD, same here. was free today, so went with these debates for old times nostalgia.

MEH, who knows? So much stuff is debatable.

Alvarez arc basically proved that MP is useless if it doesn't translate into something physical. Zeref may have had infinite magic power, but the power he puts into his attacks are finite. We know this because Natsu's attack was stronger, and Natsu's attack was finite.

The attack that beat Zeref was a Fire Dragon King's Demolition Fist. That's an Fire Dragon King spell, and therefore not base Natsu.

I will argue that Fairy Heart Zeref is stronger than base Zeref though. Mainly because he can rewind time and reconstruct his body indefinitely unless you burn his time magic. This alone would make him much harder to beat than base Zeref.

So, let me get this straight. He was using DF before. Now he wan't. Igneel's tattoo was gone and he balanced the attack of zeref with FDK punch in base mode ?
because there r no underlinings which he gets when he goes into DF mode. SO, GOD mode was taken down by FDK attack in normal mode and tht too when zeref had infinite magic leaving aside time one, where he could have very easily kept on replenishing the FINITE layer against limited FDK ? Did I get this right ?

To chip in on the Brandish durability debate.... She's not among the tankiest characters imo. She was taken out by Cana's punch, and the best attacks she has ever tanked were like cuts from Scorpio's stardress. She probably has respectable durability, but her feats don't suggest anything remarkable.

Even Natsu and Gray are taken out multiple times with headbutt from Erza. On a serious note, I have already stated my reasons with counting potential for reducing injuries as major advantage. And as far as one shot is counted, have yet to see being done to her.

 

[Ebony Maw]

So you're on my side right ? You agree that FH doesn't increase Zeref's AP right ?

If I'm right , the attack which beat him was a punch from Natsu amped with power of the guild and PoF. Where did Fire Dragon King Demolition Fist come from ? If I remember correctly , it wasn't successful in burning his magic , whereas Guild Mark Natsu's attack was.

I think @Axiomus was talking about the attack that beat FH Zeref, which was an FDK Demo Fist used by DF Natsu.

 

[Jko]

Let's be honest. FDK Demo-fist was the most overused technique in the Alvarez. Literally, he spam that stupid spell so much that it ranged from a Fodder level to a God level technique. I hated that stupid punch in Alvarez.