Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2020] - Discussion and ToC Talk

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Shinuki no Reborn

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MANGAHELPERS "TOC" POLL ISSUE #51 - VOTING!​

The poll for issue #51 is now open, vote for your favorite chapters of the week clicking HERE!

Alongside the release of Sakamoto Days, the extra series this week are:

-Dragon Ball Super 66
-Boruto: Naruto Next Generations 52
-Ghost Reaper Girl 10


Good Votes!
 
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Halloween

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Moderator Notice:
Henceforth, I will be deleting posts that complain about Weekly Shonen Jump having too many/not enough gag/battle/exorcism/sports/etc series.

These posts are not insightful, and do not meaningfully contribute to this thread. Also, this decision is not up for discussion, so posts discussing this decision will also be deleted.~ Halloween
 
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Ryuusei

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呪 僕 O マ ブ S C D 破 C B 夜 C 僕 あ 灼 ぼ チ 高 ア 森 A 仄 ぼ 次号カラー ヒロアカ アンデラ 夜桜 約ネバ 道産子 GIGA 岸本先生が描くコラボポスター 爆豪クリアファイル
Jujutsu Kaisen (Cover & LCP)
My Hero Academia
One Piece
Mashle
Black Clover
Sakamoto Days (CP)
Dr. Stone
Magu-chan: God of Destruction (CP)
Build King
Mission: Yozakura Family
Me & Roboco
Ayakashi Triangle (CP)
Shakunetsu no Niraikanai
We Never Learn
Chainsaw Man
Koukousei Kazoku
Undead Unluck
Moriking
Agravity Boys
Honomieru Shounen
Bokura no Ketsumei

Issue #1
Cover & LCP: My Hero Academia
CP: Undead Unluck, Mission: Yozakura Family, The Promised Neverland, Dosanko Gyaru wa Namaramenkoi

GIGA Preview
Collab poster by Kishimoto
Bakugou clear file
 
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BX-02BLODIA

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Don't think he was talking about the CP at all though?
Somewhat, It was a springboard for what I said.
I find behaviors like sexual assualt and rape to be reprehensible and abhorrent, in real life that is. Characters can do whatever they want in fiction, what they do is none of my concern.
 

Shinuki no Reborn

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I could say so many things about this topic that would probably upset a lot users here because i cant just bring myself to be outraged over a 2d fictional girl drawn in a paper, thats the problem with these topics here, its just a big "going in circles", literally no one here think its nice to go and grope a girls's breast, but the difference is that some users are able to separate fiction and reality, so while a part of the users here go all "wah wah think about the children (while cheering for CSM glorification of violence) or think about a girl that will see this wah wah", the others are just "man, its just a manga, japan is smart enough to know this isn't real life, just a drawing in a paper and that doing it in reality is wrong" but in the moment you do that, someone will start to quote you with a bible about woman this, woman that and blah blah blah, think about the children or the rights of a 2d girl blah blah blah and this never ends, because while everybody agrees that is something wrong to do, not everybody will be outraged about a manga.

Seriously, i'm not trying to be "insensitive", attack someone or anything, but ehhh, it's just a f@king manga, it's mainly for the japanese public and Shonen Jump know their readers better than anyone here, so if they're allowing this to be published is because they know readers, including girls, will not have a mental breakdown because a grope scene in one page or something, if they don't like they will just not support the series.



Not that art can't depict things that may be triggering, but it shouldn't be in a kids magazine, nor presented as one of the "funny gags" the character does on a regular basis.
While you say that, you have Chainsaw Man and Yuuna being published in the kids magazine...
 

Rain Spectre

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Somewhat, It was a springboard for what I said.
I find behaviors like sexual assualt and rape to be reprehensible and abhorrent, in real life that is. Characters can do whatever they want in fiction, what they do is none of my concern.
There is a strong difference between depicting sexual assault and playing it for laughs.

One is a creative decision.

The other makes you look like an asshole.
 

DreamcastDazia

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Because PTSD over traumatic events doesn't result in triggers, right?
People can absolutely have meltdowns over a fucking drawing.
Not that art can't depict things that may be triggering, but it shouldn't be in a kids magazine (as much as I love Chainsaw Man I don't think the content is all that suited to the shonen demographic), nor presented as one of the "funny gags" the character does on a regular basis.
It wasn't okay with Meliodias, and it's not okay with whoever the soon to be cancelled zombie guy is
But you are just reaching though!!! Wtf?!?!? So because some people have PTSD they should show people dying in manga. Because people have PTSD they shouldn't show someone getting stabbed. Because people have PTSD they should talk about or show war.

This is what I mean.

Obviosuly I'm not one to tell you what to do and I don't want to bee rude or offensive or anything but I'm basically trying to say just say you don't like it and leave it at that. Not make arguments like that
 

Shinuki no Reborn

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There is a strong difference between depicting sexual assault and playing it for laughs.

One is a creative decision.

The other makes you look like an asshole.
If you go by that what all the authors that publish manga depicting violence and murdering as something normal, cool or even funny look like? what all the ****** authors look like?
 

Konja9

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But you are just reaching though!!! Wtf?!?!? So because some people have PTSD they should show people dying in manga. Because people have PTSD they shouldn't show someone getting stabbed. Because people have PTSD they should talk about or show war.

This is what I mean.

Obviosuly I'm not one to tell you what to do and I don't want to bee rude or offensive or anything but I'm basically trying to say just say you don't like it and leave it at that. Not make arguments like that
True.

PTSD is not exclusive to sexual harassment. Other forms of violence could trigger this.

Even if you think the violence in a manga is unrealistic, it could still trigger other people.
 

savethecat

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I could say so many things about this topic that would probably upset a lot users here because i cant just bring myself to be outraged over a 2d fictional girl drawn in a paper, thats the problem with these topics here, its just a big "going in circles", literally no one here think its nice to go and grope a girls's breast, but the difference is that some users are able to separate fiction and reality, so while a part of the users here go all "wah wah think about the children (while cheering for CSM glorification of violence) or think about a girl that will see this wah wah", the others are just "man, its just a manga, japan is smart enough to know this isn't real life, just a drawing in a paper and that doing it in reality is wrong" but in the moment you do that, someone will start to quote you with a bible about woman this, woman that and blah blah blah, think about the children or the rights of a 2d girl blah blah blah and this never ends, because while everybody agrees that is something wrong to do, not everybody will be outraged about a manga.

Seriously, i'm not trying to be "insensitive", attack someone or anything, but ehhh, it's just a f@king manga, it's mainly for the japanese public and Shonen Jump know their readers better than anyone here, so if they're allowing this to be published is because they know readers, including girls, will not have a mental breakdown because a grope scene in one page or something, if they don't like they will just not support the series.





While you say that, you have Chainsaw Man and Yuuna being published in the kids magazine...
I think most people in the anime/manga community can agree that there are a lot of tropes in anime/manga that are problematic, despite Japan having no issue with it

Loli ******, series like “Ero-Manga Sensei” where a 10 year old girl is heavily sexualized, incest relationships etc.

Point is, wouldn’t necessarily say that the Japanese Manga community, and Jump editors finding something’s okay means that it’s okay.

I’m only arguing that purely from a writing perspective. I loved Master Roshi as a child, but as an adult I find it difficult to view characters like Master Roshi as heroic when I think back to that one time he negotiated with a 16 year old girl to see her naked, and those times he harassed the wives and girlfriends of his own students.
 

Shinuki no Reborn

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I think most people in the anime/manga community can agree that there are a lot of tropes in anime/manga that are problematic, despite Japan having no issue with it

Loli ******, series like “Ero-Manga Sensei” where a 10 year old girl is heavily sexualized, incest relationships etc.

Point is, wouldn’t necessarily say that the Japanese Manga community, and Jump editors finding something’s okay means that it’s okay.

I’m only arguing that purely from a writing perspective. I loved Master Roshi as a child, but as an adult I find it difficult to view characters like Master Roshi as heroic when I think back to that one time he negotiated with a 16 year old girl to see her naked, and those times he harassed the wives and girlfriends of his own students.
Problem is that you're bringing some complicated points, first, what it's okay or not isn't decided by only one person or "community", we're talking about a whole different society, culture and etc, the fact that the japanese manga community isn't as outraged or easily offended as the western one, doesn't make them insensitive or that what they think it's okay its not really okay.

The entire answer for the other parts is just so simple, its a work of fiction drawn in a paper, Japan knows better than anyone how to separate those things and that if you enjoy something like Eromanga-sensei, this doesn't make you a pedophile, if you enjoy a incest or loli ****** this also doesn't make you a pedophile or means you want to have sex with your partents, because it's something separated from reality, there's no crime, there's no victim or something wrong happening, and most people realise that and understand it, this is why Japan don't see this as something problematic.
 
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BX-02BLODIA

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There is a strong difference between depicting sexual assault and playing it for laughs.

One is a creative decision.

The other makes you look like an asshole.
Humor is a very slippery slope, as it's highly variable and subjective. I might not find sexual assault funny, but earthian number #16,450,208 might.
And if we're going call people assholes for the stuff they create, I might as well call Tsutsui and Miura assholes because their manga constantly remind me of how alone I am, but I digress.

While you say that, you have Chainsaw Man and Yuuna being published in the kids magazine...
Remember that Shonen isn't really made for kids. Sure, adolescents are legally called children, but you have to consider there is already a demographic for manga for actual kids.
 
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savethecat

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Problem is that you're bringing some complicated points, first, what it's okay or not isn't decided by only one person or "community", we're talking about a whole different society, culture and etc, the fact that the japanese manga community isn't as outraged or easily offended as the western one, doesn't make them insensitive or that what they think it's okay its not really okay.

The entire answer for the other parts is just so simple, its a work of fiction drawn in a paper, Japan knows better than anyone how to separate those things and that if you enjoy something like Eromanga-sensei, this doesn't make you a pedophile, if you enjoy a incest or loli ****** this also doesn't make you a pedophile or means you want to have sex with your partents, because it's something separated from reality, there's no crime, there's no victim or something wrong happening, and most people realise that and understand it, this is why Japan don't see this as something problematic.
eeeeeh.
I’m not gonna say someone deserves to be jailed for enjoying something’s thats fiction. But regardless of culture, or fiction, if someone enjoys sexual series in which a key aspect of the series involves assault, and extremely young sexualized girls , that’s very questionable.
And it’s especially questionable regarding the person who created the content.

Real or fiction, the material a person creates or consumes says something about them.

They’re free to have the culture of their media there. But when the media involves things that most other cultures find deeply uncomfortable, like assault and sexualizing children, they’re just as free to share their discomfort and disgust with the content
 

4Eyes

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Humor is a very slippery slope, as it's highly variable and subjective. I might not find sexual assault funny, but earthian number #16,450,208 might.
And if we're going the asshole route, I might as well call Tsutsui and Miura assholes because their manga constantly remind me of how alone I am, but I digress.
Then earthian number #16,450,208 should not be given an audience of ~2mi people (which is roughly the WSJ circulation numbers according to Wikipedia).
As my last point on this matter, I'm not even a bit surprised that mangas like that still exist. The surprise for me is things like this running on Jump.
Editors really found it funny and thought this was the level of content the magazine should advertise to its readers. It's telling.
 
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OniluapL

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Just one thing, because I don't want to discuss the entirety of this topic right now, but...

Japan is not a country completely isolated from our culture nor is it completely homogeneous, we might not follow much of the debates that happen over there regarding content, but... they do exist, there are people who are offended or outraged or whatever. And the Jump editors and part of the public finding something okay doesn't mean everybody will, maybe doesn't even mean the majority will. Editors, producers, people who decided what gets published anywhere... get things wrong, they aren't machines. It obviously happens over here, why wouldn't it be the case over there? Maybe it was in fact a bad decision and people will complain, maybe not, but the point is, just because something got to be published, doesn't mean everyone in Japan is okay with it.
 

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Yeah, that is worth considering. If KnY's boost is at this level when the anime adapted arguably the weakest material, what's the sales boost going to be like when it gets to the better arcs?
These kinds of boosts usually happen once so I don't see there being gigantic boosts for later Kimetsu seasons (not at this level at least)

It is definitely crazy though that the series exploded this much because of a fight that is literally nothing compared to later stuff. We haven't even seen any of the Upper Moons animated yet :D
 

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I think most people in the anime/manga community can agree that there are a lot of tropes in anime/manga that are problematic, despite Japan having no issue with it

Loli ******, series like “Ero-Manga Sensei” where a 10 year old girl is heavily sexualized, incest relationships etc.

Point is, wouldn’t necessarily say that the Japanese Manga community, and Jump editors finding something’s okay means that it’s okay.

I’m only arguing that purely from a writing perspective. I loved Master Roshi as a child, but as an adult I find it difficult to view characters like Master Roshi as heroic when I think back to that one time he negotiated with a 16 year old girl to see her naked, and those times he harassed the wives and girlfriends of his own students.
I know, I hope, that you aren't trying to be that kind of guy but it's kind of like you are saying Japan has things wrong and they should follow the cultural rules of wherever you're from.

Look it's disgusting but maybe let's not try to judge how good or bad it is just because of groping scenes. It might be reoccurring gag but it shouldn't affect your enjoyment of it. IF it is good. If the scenes affect you that much that is understandable as it's a personal thing but you can always skip it.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Just one thing, because I don't want to discuss the entirety of this topic right now, but...

Japan is not a country completely isolated from our culture nor is it completely homogeneous, we might not follow much of the debates that happen over there regarding content, but... they do exist, there are people who are offended or outraged or whatever. And the Jump editors and part of the public finding something okay doesn't mean everybody will, maybe doesn't even mean the majority will. Editors, producers, people who decided what gets published anywhere... get things wrong, they aren't machines. It obviously happens over here, why wouldn't it be the case over there? Maybe it was in fact a bad decision and people will complain, maybe not, but the point is, just because something got to be published, doesn't mean everyone in Japan is okay with it.
That's very true. Guess we'll wait and see 😄
 

savethecat

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I know, I hope, that you aren't trying to be that kind of guy but it's kind of like you are saying Japan has things wrong and they should follow the cultural rules of wherever you're from.

Look it's disgusting but maybe let's not try to judge how good or bad it is just because of groping scenes. It might be reoccurring gag but it shouldn't affect your enjoyment of it. IF it is good. If the scenes affect you that much that is understandable as it's a personal thing but you can always skip it.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---



That's very true. Guess we'll wait and see 😄
I am being that kind of guy. At the topic at hand I believe
 

Shinuki no Reborn

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eeeeeh.
I’m not gonna say someone deserves to be jailed for enjoying something’s thats fiction. But regardless of culture, or fiction, if someone enjoys sexual series in which a key aspect of the series involves assault, and extremely young sexualized girls , that’s very questionable.
And it’s especially questionable regarding the person who created the content.

Real or fiction, the material a person creates or consumes says something about them.

They’re free to have the culture of their media there. But when the media involves things that most other cultures find deeply uncomfortable, like assault and sexualizing children, they’re just as free to share their discomfort and disgust with the content
You're going for something way too problematic with the first part, that's basically what those fanatic groups do when they say that someone playing a violent video game have the tendency of, for example, shooting a school, or that some animes like Death Note induce kids to kill someone, you're making a pre judgment based on the fictional product someone is consuming, this open the door for a lot of bad stuff, and if you're talking about ****** or pornography? it's a whole different world and basically impossible to judge someone based only on that, unless of course you do what Watsuki did, a real crime.

Thats the thing about fiction and reality and the ability of totally separate these two, i can enjoy the most violent and graphic video game and that doesn't make me a violent person, in the same way i can enjoy Eromanga-sensei and the fanservice without being a pedophile or feeling any real atraction for young girls.

They're free to share a discomfort, ins't like asians don't to the same with us, but they aren't trying to go their way out to change or lecture us about it too.
 

Konja9

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The "Japan finds it okay, therefore it's okay" argument is wrong, full stop.

This is the same place that doesn't allow women to wear glasses at work.

I would never say that a culture allows people to do horrible things. There are many cultures with very questionable concepts.

However, we are discussing works of fiction about fictional characters. So, I am not going to judge people by what they like in this regard.
 

Shinuki no Reborn

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The "Japan finds it okay, therefore it's okay" argument is wrong, full stop.

This is the same place that doesn't allow women to wear glasses at work.

Sorry Buranchi, but you're trying too hard to reach with this post, no one is saying that everything that Japan do it's "okay" or perfect but that western people thinking something isn't okay in fiction doesn't mean they're right and it's a real problem because Japan don't think the same, what you're using is a real life thing.
 

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You're going for something way too problematic with the first part, that's basically what those fanatic groups do when they say that someone playing a violent video game have the tendency of, for example, shooting a school, or that some animes like Death Note induce kids to kill someone, you're making a pre judgment based on the fictional product someone is consuming, this open the door for a lot of bad stuff, and if you're talking about ****** or pornography? it's a whole different world and basically impossible to judge someone based only on that, unless of course you do what Watsuki did, a real crime.

Thats the thing about fiction and reality and the ability of totally separate these two, i can enjoy the most violent and graphic video game and that doesn't make me a violent person, in the same way i can enjoy Eromanga-sensei and the fanservice without being a pedophile or feeling any real atraction for young girls.

They're free to share a discomfort, ins't like asians don't to the same with us, but they aren't trying to go their way out to change or lecture us about it too.
Again, i think discussing sex and discussing violence is two completely different things.

It goes back to the rule of writing of “don’t include things like assault or rape in your stories because it tends to make people uncomfortable”.

I see nothing weird wanting to write a story about say, a guy who fights demons with chainsaws. It’s fantasy. No one ACTUALLY believes they can do that, nor does anyone actually want to live in a world where they have to survive by fighting demons with a chainsaw. It’s just a fun story. People tend to write and create stories of things they find cool or fun.

But if we’re talking say, something like Ero-Manga Sensei. A series that features a 10 year old girl who wears lingerie and talks about sex. What reason would some desire to make something like that? What’s fun and cool about that? I’m not going to necessarily say that creating such a series means they’re a predator. But it’s very questionable that someone would even think about making that as a series.

And going back to Undead Unluck to stay on topic with Jump series. The entire appeal of echii and fan service is that the writer and readers find said fan service hot. Does writing sexual assault mean that you’ll go out and sexually assault someone in real life? No. But the fact that you’re actively thinking up stories of a girl being assaulted and not writing it in a negative light means that you like find something appealing about it to include it in your story
 
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