One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[HereNThere]

Yeah, there is no indication that Mihawk wants Zoro to fight Shanks.

Since Shanks lost his arm, Mihawk stopped trying to fight him. Yet, Shanks clearly got stronger since then because that was before becoming a Yonkou.

To me, that Vivre Card means he wants to fight someone who'll give him an even greater thrill than his days of fighting Shanks, because he's gone so long without a decent one and his own rival is "off limits".

 

[nik87]

his own rival is "off limits"

Why do you think that?

On topic, I doubt that either Luffy or Zoro are gonna fight Shanks because Shanks isnt setup as their opponent but if they had to fight, it would be really weird for Zoro to leave a swordsman to Luffy.

 

[Shasha23]

To me, that Vivre Card means he wants to fight someone who'll give him an even greater thrill than his days of fighting Shanks, because he's gone so long without a decent one and his own rival is "off limits".

He clearly says he wants Zoro to surpass him and become strong enough to fight him, he clearly means Shanks is not strong enough to be a challenge that's why he wants Zoro to become stronger than his former rival so he can enjoy fights with him now.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 23, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 23, 2020 ---

Why do you think that?

On topic, I doubt that either Luffy or Zoro are fight Mihawk because Shanks isnt setup as tehir opponent but if they had to fight it would be really weird for Zoro to leave a swordsman to Luffy.

Very true, given that the 2nd strongest is the crew is not even a swordsman makes it even more so.

For me this just means when the Strawhats run into the Redhaired pirates Zoro will just challenge Shanks to a duel and beat him just before they move on their way to find One Piece

 

[Rmstorm]

Why do you think that?

On topic, I doubt that either Luffy or Zoro are fight Mihawk because Shanks isnt setup as tehir opponent but if they had to fight it would be really weird for Zoro to leave a swordsman to Luffy.

Luffy will fight Shanks. Luffy's opponents are hands off.

Shanks and Luffy will fight. Zoro has zero say in the matter.

 

[Shasha23]

Luffy will fight Shanks unless Zoro wants to be beaten by Luffy and kicked out of the crew.

That is his only option, as Luffy will fight Shanks. Luffy's opponents are hands off.

Shanks and Luffy will fight. Zoro has zero say in the matter.

If you dont know early one piece Zoro has told Luffy he will fight every swordsman and if Luffy ever got in his way he will kill him.

Luffy wont fight Shanks since -A) he is a swordsman and Zoro always fights swordsman; B- Mihawk wants Zoro to beat Shanks

Zoro and Shanks will fight and Luffy will have zero say unless he wants to get killed.

 

[jaymizzo]

Where in my post did you hear me take a piss on the notion Luffy wants to beat all 4 yonko?

And where did I accuse you of doing so?
It's laughable that Zoro has to fight Shanks when there actually is no indication that he could, just as laughable (rightfully) as when I claimed that Luffy could beat BM simply because of Fujitoras words. Pointing something out and observation are not taking the piss.

Mihawk wants in to happen since he only thinks Zoro can be his true rival after he beats Shanks, Mihawk didnt mean anything about respect, respect does not equate strength, and Oda meant it as strength.

After he beats Shanks or surpasses Shanks? Two very different things there. Mind you, Mihawk refused to battle Shanks because he lost an arm, as it would not really be a true test. Why in Gods name would Zoro beating someone who is handicapped by Mihawks own observation mean he surpassed him. For all we know, he could have meant the Shanks who was capable of fighting with two swords or both arms.

Yes but unlike you im not blinded by warped logic and discrediting what Oda has said!

Its easy to just say Oda said without actually providing any proof of when he said it.

Lets not forget one can use CoO to gauge how strong someone is, also Shanks has never fought Mihawk after Mihwak reached the level of strongest in the world also do you even know what a stepping stone is?

The same CoO that made him gauge Vistas strength right? Or the same CoO that helped him gauge WBs strength? The guy wanted to test himself to see the gap between him and WB but CoO will somehow tell him how much stronger he is than Shanks... (incase you misunderstand, this part is me taking the piss)

Mihawk cant be a stepping stone since he is the titleholder and everyone who Zoro has to beat are just insignificant stepping stones for him to reach the top and surpass the holder.

I know what a stepping stone is, thanks for asking. However, no one else has shown any particular interest of becoming WSS. The only way Zoro can be WSS is to beat Mihawk. Its not hard to follow.

He clearly says he wants Zoro to surpass him and become strong enough to fight him, he clearly means Shanks is not strong enough to be a challenge that's why he wants Zoro to become stronger than his former rival so he can enjoy fights with him now.

No, you are twisting facts. Mihawk did not fight Shanks because he only had one arm.

Zoro does not have to fight every swordsman, evidenced by the fact that Mihawk has not fought every swordsman. No matter how hard you try, that does not make it a reality in the cannon.

Mihawk wants Zoro to beat Shanks

Surpass or beat? Pick one.

 

[nik87]

Luffy will fight Shanks. Luffy's opponents are hands off.
Shanks and Luffy will fight. Zoro has zero say in the matter.

Luffy and Shanks wont fight lol...
If the fight between RHP and SHP happens, Oda would have to go out of his way not to pair Shanks with Zoro lol.

Zoro will just challenge Shanks to a duel and beat him

I think he would still lose. Going in the fight against Mihawk while being above Shanks sounds weird, unless Mihawk is considerably above Shanks.

 

[jaymizzo]

Luffy and Shanks wont fight lol...
If the fight between RHP and SHP happens, Oda would have to go out of his way not to pair Shanks with Zoro lol.

I could be wrong (haven't checked) but is Shanks the only swordsman in RHP?

 

[nik87]

I could be wrong (haven't checked) but is Shanks the only swordsman in RHP?

Two more methinks.
However, when has Zoro passed on a best swordsman present and went to fight inferior ones?

 

[Pirate Queen]

The idea that Luffy fights anyone but Shanks is absolute nonsense if the 2 crews fight eachother....

 

[Shasha23]

And where did I accuse you of doing so?
It's laughable that Zoro has to fight Shanks when there actually is no indication that he could, just as laughable (rightfully) as when I claimed that Luffy could beat BM simply because of Fujitoras words. Pointing something out and observation are not taking the piss.

Did you hear me taking a piss on a factual opinion like you and give an ifi explanation on the matter?
Im not Oda, he clearly plans for Zoro to overcome him one way or another and by having Mihawk say he wants Zoro to surpass him how then do you turn and say Oda's statements are laughable just because you dont agree with them?

After he beats Shanks or surpasses Shanks? Two very different things there. Mind you, Mihawk refused to battle Shanks because he lost an arm, as it would not really be a true test. Why in Gods name would Zoro beating someone who is handicapped by Mihawks own observation mean he surpassed him. For all we know, he could have meant the Shanks who was capable of fighting with two swords or both arms.

Given the little information we have 1 can deduce Zoro will either challenge Shanks to a duel and beat him or Oda will explicitly make it clear when they meet that Zoro is stronger.
Why are you asking me these questions? im not Oda nor do i know how his brain works, im just stating facts, statement and implications Oda has made over the years, so dont ask me silly questions

Its easy to just say Oda said without actually providing any proof of when he said it.

Yes i know, you keep doing that a lot

The same CoO that made him gauge Vistas strength right? Or the same CoO that helped him gauge WBs strength? The guy wanted to test himself to see the gap between him and WB but CoO will somehow tell him how much stronger he is than Shanks... (incase you misunderstand, this part is me taking the piss)

Don't bring up any haki related issue that happened before time-skip since it will just have you more confused.
He didnt want to test himself against WB, he wanted to test the difference between them and WB, this has been made clear many times by correct translations and its what the original source material said!
Yeah sure keep using inconsistent haki feats from 2 years ago like the genius you are

I know what a stepping stone is, thanks for asking. However, no one else has shown any particular interest of becoming WSS. The only way Zoro can be WSS is to beat Mihawk. Its not hard to follow.

You clearly dont buddy!
We are following the story of Luffy being PK not the story of swordsman aiming for WSS, please stop being confused!

No, you are twisting facts. Mihawk did not fight Shanks because he only had one arm.

He pretty much says this,........................................wait WAIT wait, are you also reading Bizarro One Piece by Ado?

Zoro does not have to fight every swordsman, evidenced by the fact that Mihawk has not fought every swordsman. No matter how hard you try, that does not make it a reality in the cannon.

Yeah Zoro does not have to fight every swordsman in the world, we all know this so why are you quoting me on it as if i said otherwise?
Mihawk wishes for Zoro to do so, who are you to deny it?

Surpass or beat? Pick one.

Since you clearly havent been following what i have been saying ill repeat it again :
1) Zoro will either challenge Shanks to a duel and beat him
2) Oda will explicitly make it clear when they meet that Zoro is stronger.

I cant just say 1 or 2 since the information we have is vague!

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 23, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 23, 2020 ---

I think he would still lose. Going in the fight against Mihawk while being above Shanks sounds weird, unless Mihawk is considerably above Shanks.

By the point they meet he will be as strong and eventually beat him if they fight or Oda will do a copout and make it clear to us in some way that Zoro is stronger.
I do believe Mihawk to be considerably stronger than Shanks, every person who has had the World Strongest tittle has been up normal and even up normally strong by the standard of monstrously strong people in the verse and I dont see Mihawk being different.

 

[hokageji]

The idea that Luffy fights anyone but Shanks is absolute nonsense if the 2 crews fight eachother....

That is if they even fight which i dont think they will.... But if they do, Luffy always fights the strongest, its just ridiculous to think Zoro is going to fight them.

Captain vs Captain, first mate vs first mate... Zoro vs Ben Beckmann

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 23, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 23, 2020 ---

Luffy and Shanks wont fight lol...
If the fight between RHP and SHP happens, Oda would have to go out of his way not to pair Shanks with Zoro lol.

I think debating whether Strawhats and Red Hairs even have a battle is debatable, but Shanks vs Zoro, come on... Why? because they are swordsmen?

BBP will beat RHP and eventually SHP will beat BBP, which is how Luffy will surpass Shanks....

But lets assume that SHP fight RHP, why would Zoro fight SHanks? What is the reasoning for it? Because he's a swordsmen?
Luffy has history with Shanks, and has a commitment towards him. You think when they face each other, Luffy will be like, one arm one sword vs 3 sword style makes complete sense... NO, not happening.

When Roger faced Whitebeard, he didnt say oh, a swordsmen, let me fight him... He went straight to Whitebeard, the strongest... We've seen whitebeard fight, he can use a weapon, but he primarily uses his DF ability.


To think Zoro vs Shanks is just ridicoulus, i am sorrry...

 

[jaymizzo]

Im not Oda

Spoiler: Okay Oda

he clearly plans for Zoro to overcome him one way or another and by having Mihawk say he wants Zoro to surpass him how then do you turn and say Oda's statements are laughable just because you dont agree with them?

Because there is no clarity in what is meant by surpassing Shanks. Which Shanks? The one Mihawk was willing to fight with occasionally or the one who is handicapped but is now a Yonkou?

Why are you asking me these questions? im not Oda nor do i know how his brain works, im just stating facts, statement and implications Oda has made over the years, so dont ask me silly questions

Don't make silly claims with no intention of backing them up other than... Oda says

Yes i know, you keep doing that a lot

I strictly discuss my opinion. I don't bring Oda said unless I actually have something to back it up. Call me out on it and I will gladly retract my statement if I cannot prove it.

Having fun with @nik87 and @King Moe is one thing, making a bold claim that Oda is backing me up one thing i'm careful not to do.

He didnt want to test himself against WB, he wanted to test the difference between them and WB, this has been made clear many times by correct translations and its what the original source material said!

Every time someone brings this up, it amuses me how they fail to see how its bad on Mihawk. A collective trying to measure up to an individual... Yet WSS is taken so seriously by posters on here... When only two men so far have actually vied for that title.

Yeah sure keep using inconsistent haki feats from 2 years ago like the genius you are

Is it cannon though?

We are following the story of Luffy being PK not the story of swordsman aiming for WSS, please stop being confused!

Im glad you get this.

He pretty much says this

Read what you posted

Yeah Zoro does not have to fight every swordsman in the world, we all know this so why are you quoting me on it as if i said otherwise?

Spoiler: But

Mihawk wishes for Zoro to do so, who are you to deny it?

Since you clearly havent been following what i have been saying ill repeat it again :
1) Zoro will either challenge Shanks to a duel and beat him
2) Oda will explicitly make it clear when they meet that Zoro is stronger.

Clearly, Luffy, the captain... will step down as Zoro, the VC, fights Luffys idol and mentor(ish). We are following the story of Luffy being PK, an obstacle in his road is the Yonko, but Zoro will fight Shanks because swords.

I mean, its not like Zoro waited his turn until Luffy was done with Fujitora. I mean, clearly Luffy ran away against Fujitora, a swordsman, because Zoro will cut him up if he ever fought a swordsman. The logic Zoro fans use at times while ignoring the happenings of the story is magical.

I do believe Mihawk to be considerably stronger than Shanks, every person who has had the World Strongest tittle has been up normal and even up normally strong by the standard of monstrously strong people in the verse and I dont see Mihawk being different.

A dying WSM had the entirity of the marines shitting their pants but WSS had all of Vista to contend with...

Lets not equate two titles because they share some similar words. If Mihawks WSS meant anything, he wouldn't need to test himself/themselves against someone holding an equal title...

What I said to Nik before, swordsmanship is about skill, Mihawk is the most skilled person with a sword and holds the greatest known feat (by having a black blade), it does not mean he will beat every single person infront of him if the rules include more than swordsmanship. It just means that in a fight that is strictly based on swordsmanship, he will come out on top.

 

[nik87]

By the point they meet he will be as strong and eventually beat him if they fight or Oda will do a copout and make it clear to us in some way that Zoro is stronger.
I do believe Mihawk to be considerably stronger than Shanks, every person who has had the World Strongest tittle has been up normal and even up normally strong by the standard of monstrously strong people in the verse and I dont see Mihawk being different.

You could be right, Zoro said after all that he would never lose again so he cannot lose against Shanks, however, a draw could be passable I guess.
Shanks leaves it with: If you want to beat him you will have to do a lot better than this.

I think debating whether Strawhats and Red Hairs even have a battle is debatable, but Shanks vs Zoro, come on... Why? because they are swordsmen?
BBP will beat RHP and eventually SHP will beat BBP, which is how Luffy will surpass Shanks....

But lets assume that SHP fight RHP, why would Zoro fight SHanks? What is the reasoning for it? Because he's a swordsmen?
Luffy has history with Shanks, and has a commitment towards him. You think when they face each other, Luffy will be like, one arm one sword vs 3 sword style makes complete sense... NO, not happening.

When Roger faced Whitebeard, he didnt say oh, a swordsmen, let me fight him... He went straight to Whitebeard, the strongest... We've seen whitebeard fight, he can use a weapon, but he primarily uses his DF ability.
To think Zoro vs Shanks is just ridicoulus, i am sorrry...

I do think that most likely SHP never get to deal with RHP, if they meet only shortly but not for a fight.
Yes because they are swordsmen and because Luffy still is unable to deal with master swordsmen unless he starts pulling haki blasts to stop swords without toughing them but even that would mean Shanks never landing a clean hit on Luffy. Do you know what that means? Luffy walking away from a fight with an Emperor clean... Impossible scenario.

Zoro, on the other hand, would not pass on such an opportunity to test himself against second best. He would have to go against his character and not be interested to cross his swords with Shanks. Zoro, unlike Luffy, can have direct clashes with Shanks, metal on metal and some scratches from hits that arent clean are passable, just like against Kaku while Luffy would have to either dodge everything or withstand a sword from emperor with his bare hands... Dunno whats worse to the point that it isnt happening, imo.

 

[hokageji]

I do think that most likely SHP never get to deal with RHP, if they meet only shortly but not for a fight.

Good, i am glad we agree on something atleast

Yes because they are swordsmen and because Luffy still is unable to deal with master swordsmen unless he starts pulling haki blasts to stop swords without toughing them but even that would mean Shanks never landing a clean hit on Luffy. Do you know what that means? Luffy walking away from a fight with an Emperor clean... Impossible scenario.

So you are saying, Luffy isnt capable of fighting a swordsmen? We can go back and forth on this part but one fact which has been true throughout the series is, Luffy encounters an obstacle and then he overcomes them.

Who says the fight has to be clean for it to happen? VS Croc, he lost, vs Lucci he lost, vs Katakuri he lost at the beginning, but each time, he came back stronger.

Zoro, on the other hand, would not pass on such an opportunity to test himself against second best. He would have to go against his character and not be interested to cross his swords with Shanks. Zoro, unlike Luffy, can have direct clashes with Shanks, metal on metal and some scratches from hits that arent clean are passable, just like against Kaku while Luffy would have to either dodge everything or withstand a sword from emperor with his bare hands... Dunno whats worse to the point that it isnt happening, imo.

Agreed, Zoro wont pass on an opportunity, you are right about that, but Zoro is also someone who is ready to put aside his ambitions for the sake of his captain. do you not see this as a Zoro fan? Luffy has history with Shanks, his inspiration and purpose is all tied to Shanks. If they end up fighting, you think Zoro will be like, Captain, let me make the man you adore the most armless.....

Zoro might test his skill against Shanks, but that'll be in the manner of which Mihawk tested his skill against Whitebeard at best.

 

[nik87]

We can go back and forth on this part but one fact which has been true throughout the series is, Luffy encounters an obstacle and then he overcomes them.
Who says the fight has to be clean for it to happen? VS Croc, he lost, vs Lucci he lost, vs Katakuri he lost at the beginning, but each time, he came back stronger.

But those obstacles have never been master swordsmen in 22 years of fight history...
True it doesnt have to be clean but Oda has to take a dump on Shanks in that case, to justify clean hits from yonko swordsman not being fatal.
Imagine a clean slice across the chest, a la Mihawk, and Luffy fighting with such wound and overcoming Shanks... Imagine the disappointment lol.
Getting a draw against Katakuri despite the injury cause people to rage, imagine a far worse wound being ignored...
Unless Oda wants to pull a Whitebeard and Luffy remains alive instead of dying like WB...

Zoro is also someone who is ready to put aside his ambitions for the sake of his captain.

I am not sure about this one. I dont think Zoro ever did this. With Kuma, he made the best decision available, he didnt put Luffy above his ambition, in fact, he made it clear that his ambition was a not worth much if he cant at least save captain's life. He clearly places his ambition there over Luffy but he realizes giving his own life is the option that causes the least harm. By sacrificing himself, SH lose the swordsman, while sacrificing Luffy the entire crew is done, including Zoro.

 

[hokageji]

True it doesnt have to be clean but Oda has to take a dump on Shanks in that case, to justify clean hits from yonko swordsman not being fatal.
Imagine a clean slice across the chest, a la Mihawk, and Luffy fighting with such wound and overcoming Shanks... Imagine the disappointment lol.
Getting a draw against Katakuri despite the injury cause people to rage, imagine a far worse wound being ignored...
Unless Oda wants to pull a Whitebeard and Luffy remains alive instead of dying like WB...

I just dont get your reasoning here.... are you saying Luffy will either get a single slice and lose, or Shanks will be dumped with a single hit KO? Its not gonna be ashort fight, its gonna a longer version with quite a hits and misses... AlsoFatal wounds are rare occurances in one piece..
When Mihawk fought Zoro, it was a great representation in the level of differences between them which he survived..

And my counter to that would be, why would Zoro fair any better? Just because he's a swordsmen?

I am not sure about this one. I dont think Zoro ever did this. With Kuma, he made the best decision available, he didnt put Luffy above his ambition, in fact, he made it clear that his ambition was a not worth much if he cant at least save captain's life. He clearly places his ambition there over Luffy but he realizes giving his own life is the option that causes the least harm. By sacrificing himself, SH lose the swordsman, while sacrificing Luffy the entire crew is done, including Zoro.

I meant about the time when he put his pride aside to get stronger and train under Mihawk. https://mangaseeonline.us/read-online/One-Piece-chapter-597-page-5.html

 

[M3J]

Luffy will fight Shanks not just because he wants to surpass Shanks, but because Luffy himself wants to fight him. Would be weird to have Blackbeard kill Shanks, at least before Luffy gets to meet him again.

 

[nik87]

I just dont get your reasoning here.... are you saying Luffy will either get a single slice and lose, or Shanks will be dumped with a single hit KO? Its not gonna be ashort fight, its gonna a longer version with quite a hits and misses... AlsoFatal wounds are rare occurances in one piece..
When Mihawk fought Zoro, it was a great representation in the level of differences between them which he survived..

And my counter to that would be, why would Zoro fair any better? Just because he's a swordsmen?



I meant about the time when he put his pride aside to get stronger and train under Mihawk. https://mangaseeonline.us/read-online/One-Piece-chapter-597-page-5.html

For Luffy to be able to take clean hits from Shanks and keep fighting, Oda has to nerf Shanks and his sword hits damage to be neutralized/ignored for Luffy to proceed fighting. A clean hit from a swordsman ends the fight, now imagine how Oda would have to change the rules for Luffy to keep going after such damage...

Either Shanks will miss everything or his damage will be ignored just so Luffy can continue, both scenarios are bad. Yes, Zoro can do better because he is a swordsman. He is at no risk of taking heavy damage when putting a sword against a sword.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

I dont think luffy will have time to fight shanks
The world seemed to be in a big chaos post reverie, so luffy might be in a rush after wano.
Also post wano luffy will already defeat world strongest creature and will take on WG, that already proves EoS luffy>shanks
In fact, depending on how wano final fight goes, post wano luffy will already be stronger than shanks