Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2020] - Discussion and ToC Talk

[Shinuki no Reborn]

MANGAHELPERS "TOC" POLL ISSUE #51 - VOTING!​

The poll for issue #51 is now open, vote for your favorite chapters of the week clicking HERE!

Alongside the release of Sakamoto Days, the extra series this week are:

-Dragon Ball Super 66
-Boruto: Naruto Next Generations 52
-Ghost Reaper Girl 10

Good Votes!

 

[Halloween]

Moderator Notice:
Henceforth, I will be deleting posts that complain about Weekly Shonen Jump having too many/not enough gag/battle/exorcism/sports/etc series.

These posts are not insightful, and do not meaningfully contribute to this thread. Also, this decision is not up for discussion, so posts discussing this decision will also be deleted.~ Halloween

 

[Ryuusei]

Spoiler: 52 TOC & 01 Preview

呪 僕 O マ ブ S C D 破 C B 夜 C 僕 あ 灼 ぼ チ 高 ア 森 A 仄 ぼ 次号カラー ヒロアカ アンデラ 夜桜 約ネバ 道産子 GIGA 岸本先生が描くコラボポスター 爆豪クリアファイル

Spoiler: Issue #52 ToC & Preview

Jujutsu Kaisen (Cover & LCP)
My Hero Academia
One Piece
Mashle
Black Clover
Sakamoto Days (CP)
Dr. Stone
Magu-chan: God of Destruction (CP)
Build King
Mission: Yozakura Family
Me & Roboco
Ayakashi Triangle (CP)
Shakunetsu no Niraikanai
We Never Learn
Chainsaw Man
Koukousei Kazoku
Undead Unluck
Moriking
Agravity Boys
Honomieru Shounen
Bokura no Ketsumei

Issue #1
Cover & LCP: My Hero Academia
CP: Undead Unluck, Mission: Yozakura Family, The Promised Neverland, Dosanko Gyaru wa Namaramenkoi

GIGA Preview
Collab poster by Kishimoto
Bakugou clear file

 

[Halloween]

Everyone should have a say, and the decision as to whose words should be given more weight is left for others to decide.

That's an interesting take.

I'm curious, do you think white people's opinion on the usage of the N-word is as valid as the opinion of black people's?

You know, since everyone should have a say and all.

 

[101nemesis]

Everyone should have a say, and the decision as to whose words should be given more weight is left for others to decide.
There is no "by default" such that your race means your opinion makes more sense.
In general of course more Koreans would know about this issue than Canadians for example. But stating that only Koreans get to have a say is simply eliminating any possibility for discourse. There is a possibly that a vocal minority of such an ethnic group can be WRONG about a specific part of their outrage - where it is directed, what they think is the cause of its perpetuation, etc. The answers to these questions are in part founded on knowledge and research, and cannot be wholly answered by the gut feelings of an ethnic group. In such a case deferring to the "basic position" of "They are [ethnic group] hence only they have the right to speak" goes against several principles of freedom and is racist in and of itself. That is undeniable.
This is now off-topic and I hope I've made you understand why your statement is dangerously exclusive and full of generalization.

When it comes to backward attitudes and traditions that are restricting and offensive to many today, then your statement stands. Women rights / equality etc all fall under that.

When it comes atrocities and torture done to one race by another race, you (an external race) don't get a say in it. It's very simple.

 

[supercow297]

That's an interesting take.

I'm curious, do you think white people's opinion on the usage of the N-word is as valid as the opinion of black people's?

You know, since everyone should have a say and all.

I stated this in my post:

In general of course more Koreans would know about this issue than Canadians for example. But stating that only Koreans get to have a say is simply eliminating any possibility for discourse. There is a possibly that a vocal minority of such an ethnic group can be WRONG about a specific part of their outrage - where it is directed, what they think is the cause of its perpetuation, etc. The answers to these questions are in part founded on knowledge and research (in which, of course, the opinions and beliefs of said ethnic groups is very valuable!), and cannot be wholly answered by the gut feelings of an ethnic group.

Simply replace Koreans with Blacks and Canadians with Whites.

In general of course more Blacks would know (more) about this issue than Whites for example. But stating that only Blacks get to have a say is simply eliminating any possibility for discourse. There is a possibly that a vocal minority of such an ethnic group can be WRONG about a specific part of their outrage - where it is directed, what they think is the cause of its perpetuation, etc. (only listing blanket examples here! Not intended to be pointing towards anything specific whatsoever) The answers to these questions are in part founded on knowledge and research (in which, of course, the opinions and beliefs of said ethnic groups is very valuable!), and cannot be wholly answered by the gut feelings of an ethnic group.

Edit: As for your question "is [X] as valid as [Y]", most likely the average validity of a Black person's beliefs on the subject is more valid than the average validity of a White person's due to the direct impact it has on Black people, but that does not mean that there are not completely ignorant Black people who have a malformed view on the use of the N-word and its impact, and similarly there could be white university professors who dedicated their life to studying this topic and are more able to help than a large number of Black people could on the subject. (Of course there could also be much more well-studied Black professors on the subject as well!) Simply reducing these issues to an issue of race is exactly the same mistake you are attempting to end.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 3, 2020, Original Post Date: Feb 3, 2020 ---

When it comes to backward attitudes and traditions that are restricting and offensive to many today, then your statement stands. Women rights / equality etc all fall under that.

When it comes atrocities and torture done to one race by another race, you (an external race) don't get a say in it. It's very simple.

Nothing is simple and that is the basic point that you have to stop trying to avoid.

Simplifying, categorizing, is all a means to ease the complicated extrasensory deluge of information that comes in our lives, and it is a useful tool and helps comfort ourselves but is exactly the thing that in cases like this we should combat.

 

[Ryuusei]

Rigthfully ?

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 3, 2020, Original Post Date: Feb 3, 2020 ---

And who cares, he apologized, what else do these want?

A derogatory term was used and one that reminds people of the horrors of war, people are allowed to be hurt and are allowed to express it and drop the series like many have done already.

These people are tired and done with Japan's revisionism of their war crimes, this was triggering to them. If they accept or not Horikoshi's and Jump's posts, let them be.

 

[Franz]

A derogatory term was used and one that reminds people of the horrors of war, people are allowed to be hurt and are allowed to express it and drop the series like many have done already.

Remember who, there were 80 years ago?



And above all, since when is remembering bad?

These people are tired and done with Japan's revisionism of their war crimes, this was triggering to them.

But what revisionism? Indeed it is the exact opposite, giving a name similar to the character stimulates readers to learn more.

If they accept or not Horikoshi's and Jump's posts, let them be.

Did they want an apology? They had them. So they just have to shut up.

 

[supercow297]

Remember who, there were 80 years ago?



And above all, since when is remembering bad?




But what revisionism? Indeed it is the exact opposite, giving a name similar to the character stimulates readers to learn more.







Did they want an apology? They had them. So they just have to shut up.

There was no apology. Speedreader

 

[Halloween]

Guys, I'm gonna draw the line here and make sure something is absolutely clear with all of you.

This isn't 4chan. As long as I'm moderator, this section is going to be progressive. If I see that any anti-SJW or alt-right crap pops up, I'm going to immediately delete it.

If you don't like it, you're more than welcome to leave.

 

[Franz]

There was no apology

Read the Twitter post

 

[supercow297]

Guys, I'm gonna draw the line here and make sure something is absolutely clear with all of you.

This isn't 4chan. As long as I'm moderator, this section is going to be progressive. If I see that any anti-SJW or alt-right crap pops up, I'm going to immediately delete it.

If you don't like it, you're more than welcome to leave.

Wait did something I say get anti-SJW or alt-right?

Read the Twitter post

I did.

 

[Ryuusei]

Remember who, there were 80 years ago?



And above all, since when is remembering bad?




But what revisionism? Indeed it is the exact opposite, giving a name similar to the character stimulates readers to learn more.







Did they want an apology? They had them. So they just have to shut up.

Look, as it seems, I could speak hours about this topic but it won't do anything if you're not willing to be any sensitive towards this topic. Have a nice day.

 

[Halloween]

Wait did something I say get anti-SJW or alt-right?

While I don't agree with your opinion that everyone should get a say on the usage of the N-word, that post wasn't specifically in reference to you. It's something I've noticed over time that I felt I should get off my chest.

 

[Newkerzy]

There's no way it was a coincidence. The character in the series experiments on people. Maruta is in reference to people being experimented on. Not just that, but it was literally an insult the Japanese used against victims to disparage them.

No, that's too strong of a connection to be coincidental. Look, I know you guys love Horikoshi and MHA. But there really isn't a defense for this.

Again, Maruta not only refers to the victims, but also the project. If someone is going to refer to it, it can be interpreted either way. In this case, I believe Horikoshi went for the latter. People are claiming Horikoshi is championing the Japanese war effort through naming the character, which is absolutely ridiculous on so many levels. People really need to understand context before tweeting.

S8 new 3 characters look promising I guess, Ryu being a key is most obvious WSJ plot twist since Tobi/Obito

At least it didn't take years to be confirmed.

It was definitely not coincidental and whether he had any ill intentions or not it doesn't really matter right now cause the damage has been done and the Korean and Chinese fandoms are rightfully hurt. Japan's relationship with other eastern/southeastern Asian countries is a very sensitive topic. They will keep asking for an apology until Horikoshi gives it to them and even then this has tainted the series's reputation in those countries.

So, let's get this straight: we're not allowed to have racist antagonists in any story-telling medium yelling the n-word or whatever derogatory term have you or someone loudly and proudly claiming they're Hitler's true heir and named Adolf by the author? I'll even go the extra mile that we're not allowed to have a fictional religious cult leader who's similarly named after Bin Laden. And I say this as a Muslim.

The Japanese revisionist views can be traced all the way back to Eisenhower, who even encouraged them. Eisenhower needed Japan to counter the Soviets' influence, so he basically blamed the Japanese going to war because the Emperor was influenced by "a few powerful opportunistic men" and only a few Japanese Top brass went to court (most of them likely committed Seppuku, anyways). Eisenhower cut a deal with the Japanese government agreeing to let the monarch off the hook, in exchange for coalition and partnership.

Eisenhower relentlessly campaigned that the Emperor and in extension, the Japanese common folk were duped into going to war. The campaign was a success, and thus, most of the Japanese war crimes were swept under the rug and wasn't re-discovered until years later.

 

[Ryuusei]

Again, Maruta not only refers to the victims, but also the project. If someone is going to refer to it, it can be interpreted either way. In this case, I believe Horikoshi went for the latter. People are claiming Horikoshi is championing the Japanese war effort through naming the character, which is absolutely ridiculous on so many levels. People really need to understand context before tweeting.



At least it didn't take years to be confirmed.



So, let's get this straight: we're not allowed to have racist antagonists in any story-telling medium yelling the n-word or whatever derogatory term have you or someone loudly and proudly claiming they're Hitler's true heir and named Adolf by the author? I'll even go the extra mile that we're not allowed to have a fictional religious cult leader who's similarly named after Bin Laden. And I say this as a Muslim.

The Japanese revisionist views can be traced all the way back to Eisenhower, who even encouraged them. Eisenhower needed Japan to counter the Soviets' influence, so he basically blamed the Japanese going to war because the Emperor was influenced by "a few powerful opportunistic men" and only a few Japanese Top brass went to court (most of them likely committed Seppuku, anyways). Eisenhower cut a deal with the Japanese government agreeing to let the monarch off the hook, in exchange for coalition and partnership.

Eisenhower relentlessly campaigned that the Emperor and in extension, the Japanese common folk were duped into going to war. The campaign was a success, and thus, most of the Japanese war crimes were swept under the rug and wasn't re-discovered until years later.

Sorry, let me rephrase this.The term maruta refers to the victims of the experiments but in the context of MHA it was used to name a villain. To many people this seems like the victims are being painted as the bad ones in history.

 

[BX-02BLODIA]

Correct me if i'm wrong, the kanji for Maruta are 丸 and 太 which means round and thick respectively.

Round and thick? I can think of one thing that fits that description perfectly....

Spoiler

Anyways, can we move on from this topic? You guys are confusing poor Gon.

 

[Newkerzy]

Sorry, let me rephrase this.The term maruta refers to the victims of the experiments but in the context of MHA it was used to name a villain. To many people this seems like the victims are being painted as the bad ones in history.

See my reply to @Buranchi. As I said, it refers to both the victims and the project. There probably wasn't any official name by the Japanese military. Formally, that is. I'm guessing either the Japanese military came up with it to refer the project informally, or historians referred it so, and from there it became a catch-all term of sorts.

Honestly, there could be so many ways to interpret Maruta's naming.

-Horikoshi could be demeaning the Doctor by giving him the name.
-Horikoshi is associating the Doctor's heinous crimes with one of Japan's darkest chapters. Adding another weight to how despicable and irreprehensible the Doctor is.
-Or he's just naming him in a literal sense. Which is "round and fat"

If people could understand how sometimes there's no "one-size-fits-all" answer for everything, I'd say the world would be a better place.

 

[AbrahamOmosun]

Round and thick? I can think of one thing that fits that description perfectly....

Spoiler

I see your a man of exquisite taste ;-)

Anyway, since there is no possible way to prove or disprove Hirokoshi's statement about this whole thing (unless you have a telepathy/truth saying quirk), lets talk about if hunter x hunter will ever resume complete sterilization

 

[101nemesis]

I stated this in my post:

In general of course more Koreans would know about this issue than Canadians for example. But stating that only Koreans get to have a say is simply eliminating any possibility for discourse. There is a possibly that a vocal minority of such an ethnic group can be WRONG about a specific part of their outrage - where it is directed, what they think is the cause of its perpetuation, etc. The answers to these questions are in part founded on knowledge and research (in which, of course, the opinions and beliefs of said ethnic groups is very valuable!), and cannot be wholly answered by the gut feelings of an ethnic group.

Simply replace Koreans with Blacks and Canadians with Whites.

In general of course more Blacks would know (more) about this issue than Whites for example. But stating that only Blacks get to have a say is simply eliminating any possibility for discourse. There is a possibly that a vocal minority of such an ethnic group can be WRONG about a specific part of their outrage - where it is directed, what they think is the cause of its perpetuation, etc. (only listing blanket examples here! Not intended to be pointing towards anything specific whatsoever) The answers to these questions are in part founded on knowledge and research (in which, of course, the opinions and beliefs of said ethnic groups is very valuable!), and cannot be wholly answered by the gut feelings of an ethnic group.

Edit: As for your question "is [X] as valid as [Y]", most likely the average validity of a Black person's beliefs on the subject is more valid than the average validity of a White person's due to the direct impact it has on Black people, but that does not mean that there are not completely ignorant Black people who have a malformed view on the use of the N-word and its impact, and similarly there could be white university professors who dedicated their life to studying this topic and are more able to help than a large number of Black people could on the subject. (Of course there could also be much more well-studied Black professors on the subject as well!) Simply reducing these issues to an issue of race is exactly the same mistake you are attempting to end.

Nothing is simple and that is the basic point that you have to stop trying to avoid.

Simplifying, categorizing, is all a means to ease the complicated extrasensory deluge of information that comes in our lives, and it is a useful tool and helps comfort ourselves but is exactly the thing that in cases like this we should combat.

Except every individual of that race grows up knowing the atrocities committed by the other race. Brown people learn about the atrocities caused by the English in history classes in actual excruciating detail. I'm fairly certain this is how History classes are taught around the world as well.

You're making an assumption that the outrage about a minority within the ethnic group might be channeling their outrage in the wrong manner. EVEN if they were, it's again NOT YOUR place (a person who was not affected by it in any form or manner) to tell them that. That concept really is THAT simple.

You can say you're trying to be logical in this matter by being "educated" but no amount of education will relay the emotional and traumatic distress such events cause over generations. Hence, you will never be "educated" enough to understand what it means to have that emotion in such situations.

This is literally the argument used by people who say that "Black Lives Matter" protests or the Pride Parade is illogical, offers no solution and is misdirected.

 

[Konja9]

I stated this in my post:

In general of course more Koreans would know about this issue than Canadians for example. But stating that only Koreans get to have a say is simply eliminating any possibility for discourse. There is a possibly that a vocal minority of such an ethnic group can be WRONG about a specific part of their outrage - where it is directed, what they think is the cause of its perpetuation, etc. The answers to these questions are in part founded on knowledge and research (in which, of course, the opinions and beliefs of said ethnic groups is very valuable!), and cannot be wholly answered by the gut feelings of an ethnic group.

Simply replace Koreans with Blacks and Canadians with Whites.

In general of course more Blacks would know (more) about this issue than Whites for example. But stating that only Blacks get to have a say is simply eliminating any possibility for discourse. There is a possibly that a vocal minority of such an ethnic group can be WRONG about a specific part of their outrage - where it is directed, what they think is the cause of its perpetuation, etc. (only listing blanket examples here! Not intended to be pointing towards anything specific whatsoever) The answers to these questions are in part founded on knowledge and research (in which, of course, the opinions and beliefs of said ethnic groups is very valuable!), and cannot be wholly answered by the gut feelings of an ethnic group.

Edit: As for your question "is [X] as valid as [Y]", most likely the average validity of a Black person's beliefs on the subject is more valid than the average validity of a White person's due to the direct impact it has on Black people, but that does not mean that there are not completely ignorant Black people who have a malformed view on the use of the N-word and its impact, and similarly there could be white university professors who dedicated their life to studying this topic and are more able to help than a large number of Black people could on the subject. (Of course there could also be much more well-studied Black professors on the subject as well!) Simply reducing these issues to an issue of race is exactly the same mistake you are attempting to end.

I don't think education or research give you the right to comment on the personal conflicts of other races (especially one that caused so much pain). And even less the right to ignore opinions of some people of that race because you think they "lack education".

No matter how educate or knowledgeable you are, if that has not affected you in a closer way, I don't think you fully understand it.

Not to mention that people can be "educated", but that doesn't prevent them from having biased or obsolete ideas.

 

[MysticCatto]

I dunno if you'd consider this fitting, but there is the deliquent boxing Jump manga Rokudenashi Blues which ran over 9 years and sold ~60 million copies, yet never received an anime series (though there were two anime movies and live-action stuff).

That is rather interesting. Psyren is also another (rather popular I guess) manga with no adaptation, anybody know why that is?

 

[supercow297]

Except every individual of that race grows up knowing the atrocities committed by the other race. Brown people learn about the atrocities caused by the English in history classes in actual excruciating detail. I'm fairly certain this is how History classes are taught around the world as well.

You're making an assumption that the outrage about a minority within the ethnic group might be channeling their outrage in the wrong manner. EVEN if they were, it's again NOT YOUR place (a person who was not affected by it in any form or manner) to tell them that. That concept really is THAT simple.

You can say you're trying to be logical in this matter by being "educated" but no amount of education will relay the emotional and traumatic distress such events cause over generations. Hence, you will never be "educated" enough to understand what it means to have that emotion in such situations.

This is literally the argument used by people who say that "Black Lives Matter" protests or the Pride Parade is illogical, offers no solution and is misdirected.

It is definitely my place to tell someone that they are channeling their outrage in a wrong manner. You have freedoms, as long as they don't infringe on my freedoms. That's the fundamental principle, here. By education I mean educating people on things like studies and research that can find out what actually has a positive impact and what doesn't. Obviously even if you have a million people protesting if they go about it the wrong way maybe they'll do more harm than not. That's just an example.
Education may or may not help the process of understanding, but that does not mean that education on a certain subject does not lend credibility to people even if they are from a different race.
If you believe so, like it or not, that is RACISM. By definition.

I don't think education or research give you the right to comment on the personal conflicts of other races (especially one that caused so much pain). And even less the right to ignore opinions of some people of that race because you think they "lack education".

No matter how educate or knowledgeable you are, if that has not affected you in a closer way, I don't think you fully understand it.

Not to mention that people can be "educated", but that doesn't prevent them from having biased or obsolete ideas.

The point isn't that education lets you "comment", it's that education is a large part of what provides actual answers and solutions, and that you shouldn't think because someone isn't part of a certain ethnic group, their arguments are immediately invalid.

The point is literally that you shouldn't always generalize, aka don't be racist.