One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
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• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Pirate Queen]

It doesnt matter what I think about it, that is what manga says. You are the one who is trying to go around it and make those titles not what they are.

He did, Akainu was done in the face of Whitebeard. What happened later has nothing to do with him not being able to continue the fight vs WB himself.

He was WSM, his title and his response to Crocodile confirm it. "Days long fights" are just empty hype for off-paneled fights in case you didnt notice.
Akainu can fight Aokiji for 10 days off-panel, he cant stand 10 seconds vs Whitebeard on the panel. Good luck expecting days long fights on the panel.
They could win in 1vs1 while ganging up on him they couldnt? lol...

Obviously was a stronger individual as I have mentioned several times. He was equal to Roger without his DF fruit, Roger didnt have the power to destroy the world. Garp has never had the "equal" portrayal.

If your getting a title that's so absolute, there should be no question and there are nothing but questions surrounding the titles.

 

[M3J]

Other than that, we saw what almost dead Whitebeard did to Akainu, two-shot him,

And still was unable to take him down. Akainu did more damage to Whitebeard than Whitebeard did to him. Akainu also seems to be feared by Blackbeard enough that he retreated when he saw Akainu, right after the war. Kind of weird considering he didn't think about retreating during the war until Shanks joined.

 

[nik87]

And still was unable to take him down.

Sliding into abyss and unable to do anything about it aside from cursing Whitebeard... Doesnt look to me like someone capable of standing against WB.
Yes, he did more damage to WB because he had a free shot on WB during a heart attack and his fruit is way more lethal but still was spanked by him.

Akainu also seems to be feared by Blackbeard enough that he retreated when he saw Akainu, right after the war. Kind of weird considering he didn't think about retreating during the war until Shanks joined.

I think he retreated because he had nothing to gain by fighting Akainu and could lose his crew members considering that he challenged the entire Marines back in Marineford.

 

[M3J]

Nah, he was perfectly capable of standing against Whitebeard, otherwise Akainu would have been down for the count after all the beating he took from Whitebeard.

 

[Holt]

Oden should have been made the WSS to clarify because an attack on a creature 100 meters long is hardly an impressive feat as Kaido is at his most vulnerable. Of Oden could to it in Kaodo's human/hybrid form then it wouldn't even be an issue.

Oden wasn't a pirate for long enough and there would be almost no possibility of him clashing with Mihawk. Vista has been a pirate way longer and he only clashed with Mihawk for the first time at marineford. Mihawk was said to challenge numerous powerful foes but obviously you can't just pick a fight with a commander on WB's crew. There's nothing that even says WSS was a thing then. After he joined Roger, it was basically a one way road to laugh tale and then backed to the close borders on Wano. Both WB and Roger acknowledged Oden. Kaido was wary of him as well. Oden actually managed to best Kaido too. Not sure why you would say an attack on Kaido in dragon form is non-impressive or that he is at his most vulnerable then. Sure there's more mass to attack, but there's really no proof to say he is any weaker than his human form.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Oden wasn't a pirate for long enough and there would be almost no possibility of him clashing with Mihawk. Vista has been a pirate way longer and he only clashed with Mihawk for the first time at marineford. Mihawk was said to challenge numerous powerful foes but obviously you can't just pick a fight with a commander on WB's crew. There's nothing that even says WSS was a thing then. After he joined Roger, it was basically a one way road to laugh tale and then backed to the close borders on Wano. Both WB and Roger acknowledged Oden. Kaido was wary of him as well. Oden actually managed to best Kaido too. Not sure why you would say an attack on Kaido in dragon form is non-impressive or that he is at his most vulnerable then. Sure there's more mass to attack, but there's really no proof to say he is any weaker than his human form.

I'm confused and sorry of I'm misunderstanding... are you asking why I dont consider Oden cutting Kaido in his dragon form as impressive as if Kaido was in his human form?

If so I can answer.... his human form is far more likely to see an attack from Oden coming and react whereas Kaido is not as mobile or versatile as a 200 foot long dragon that can wrap around a palace.

It would be like landing an attack on Oars because your a tiny human in comparison to a 60 meter tall giant.

Go back and reread the chapter. Kaido was so large and massive that he didn't even see Oden until after Oden started screaming his attack and no way a dragon that large could move fast enough to do anything but be a target.

And for that I say unimpressive. Oden still had to actually PEIRCE Kaido's scales with enough force and that shows how strong he is... if somehow Kaido's durability was less back then (which cant be proven).

I'm not going to pretend Oden isn't strong, but I'm not going to say he is Yonko tier for the sole purpose of him hitting a target a half mile long.

You said WB and Roger acknowledge him. Yes that's true, but that doesnt put him on the same level as them. It just doesnt.

If I miss understood you, sorry lol

 

[Holt]

I'm confused and sorry of I'm misunderstanding... are you asking why I dont consider Oden cutting Kaido in his dragon form as impressive as if Kaido was in his human form?

If so I can answer.... his human form is far more likely to see an attack from Oden coming and react whereas Kaido is not as mobile or versatile as a 200 foot long dragon that can wrap around a palace.

It would be like landing an attack on Oars because your a tiny human in comparison to a 60 meter tall giant.

Go back and reread the chapter. Kaido was so large and massive that he didn't even see Oden until after Oden started screaming his attack and no way a dragon that large could move fast enough to do anything but be a target.

And for that I say unimpressive. Oden still had to actually PEIRCE Kaido's scales with enough force and that shows how strong he is... if somehow Kaido's durability was less back then (which cant be proven).

I'm not going to pretend Oden isn't strong, but I'm not going to say he is Yonko tier for the sole purpose of him hitting a target a half mile long.

You said WB and Roger acknowledge him. Yes that's true, but that doesnt put him on the same level as them. It just doesnt.

If I miss understood you, sorry lol

Ah well, yes Kaido is an easier target in his dragon form. I was referring to Oden being able to cut him. I don't think Oden hitting Kaido would be impossible though. Luffy hit Kaido both in Dragon/human form with pretty much no effect, and this is considering Luffy was already at least mid YC level. Even at marineford, we saw the YCs could barely hurt the admirals who don't have Kaido's toughness. So there's precedence to say Kaido can be hit in either form, the problem is being able to actually inflict damage on him which Oden could do (the impressive part). It's difficult to fully say if Oden was yonko level since we didn't really get to see much of him against them, but his injury on Kaido shows he was pretty close imo

 

[hokageji]

wait, i still cant get over Oden being Yonko level...

I think at best, he's the strongest Yonkou captain level ever... but he's basically only had a skirmish with Whitebeard which went nowhere, managed to cut Kaido, but got one hit KO even with him. i dont think you can treat him as Yonko level, but surely stronger than all the Yonko captains we've seen.

Now on Kaido getting slashed by Oden, sure that he was an easier target when he's a dragon, but those Dragon scales are still pretty hard, so Oden's cut cannot be underestimated.

 

[Fox666]

When Oden clashed with Whitebeard, he sent the other commanders flying. Isn't that proof that he's way above the rest?

 

[M3J]

Not really. I mean, would you have said the same about Luffy when Lucci knocked him away with one shot? Hell, Luffy was inferior to Crocodile to the point that he lost two rounds, but no one brings that up often.

 

[Fox666]

But like at this:

The commanders are sent flying because of the shockwave from two blades colliding near them. Who is capable of doing that if not someone at the level of the Yonko?

Other than that, we saw what almost dead Whitebeard did to Akainu, two-shot him, barehanded and was still holding back and not using his lethal weapon.

That's not that happened.

Whitebeard attacked Akainu by surprise, Akainu stood up and lethally wounded Whitebeard.

Whitebeard landed another attack, and Akainu disappeared. But in reality Akainu used it to sneak away and chase Luffy and Jinbe.

Akainu challanged the entirety of the Whitebeard Pirates afterwards, and took down one commander. It took Shanks to finally stop him.

Honestly it was a win for Akainu. Whitebeard was in a deplorable state, considering how easily the Blackbeard Pirates killed Whitebeard, Akainu could have finished him if that's what he wanted.

I think he retreated because he had nothing to gain by fighting Akainu and could lose his crew members considering that he challenged the entire Marines back in Marineford.

Blackbeard had a big mouth, but in practice he was definitely not capable of challenging the big-shots. Sengoku alone humilhated all the Blackbeard Pirates.

 

[albertwv]

To go back a few pages regarding Mihawk... While Mihawk is pretty strong I would NOT put him on Yonko level, top Admiral level or YC1 level. Yes he was rival to Shanks, but that was before Shanks was a Yonko and even before he had lost his arm (not that that matters). I think Shanks surpassed him in strength, not in swordsmanship. Besides he hasnt shown us much feats to put him above Admiral level. He was almost being matched evenly by Vista, though I think Mihawk would have won in the end.

Regarding Pica, he is strong and has a big destructive capability, but I would still put him below Vergo, but above Diamante and Trebol though. I want to say Dressrosa Sanji would have some difficulty fighting him due to his DF and based on the fact that Sanji at that time seemed weaker than Vergo. IDC if you disagree but Vergo> Dressrosa Sanji. I still think Sanji could defeat Pica though if he manages to get him out of his stone statue.

Now Oden, Oden is not Yonko level but he is close to it. He has been the only one to scar Kaido, even if he was in dragon form. BUT Oden was taken out in one hit afterwards by Kaido even if he was caught off guard. I would put Oden above Admiral level. I would even say if Oden was alived today he would be higher than Mihawk, but thats my opinion.

Now WB and Akainu, WB at MF was weakened but he still managed to take down Akainu in 2 hits. Had they fought for real long enough, WB would be easily defeat Akainu. Keep in mind, WB did NOT go all out at MF because he did not want to hurt his own crew as well. Now I don't know why people put Akainu above Yonkos or think he is End of Series villain. Him and BB have been categorized as EoS villains by many fans but I don't think that should cloud our judgement. Let's pretend they are not EoS villains. The reason why BB fled from Akainu was because he did not want to lose his crew by fighting Akainu. BB and his crew could have won that fight most likely but they would taken some heavy damage and not have been able to be Yonko crew right away. So BB was smart in running away from Akainu at that time. Now POST TS BB im sure he can take down Akainu by himself with some difficulty though.

Regarding Yonkos, I want to give them the benefit of the doubt, since there is so much confusion with the titles "WSM" and "WSC", they are all close to equal. WB, Kaido, BM, and Shanks...with BB being inferior. But in my power scale I would say: WB>Kaido>BM>Shanks>>BB. Since WB was equals with Roger and Kaido and BM were not mentioned to have being that closed in power to Roger. Shanks well he is still upcoming compared to the rest of the Yonko and BB is still fresh to the Yonko.

Finally, garp and Sengoku. While Garp has been hailed as the hero of the marines and cornered Roger, I want to say they are similar to Smoker and Luffy, Luffy could kick Smoker's ass but somehow Smoker managed to capture Luffy so maybe thats how it was with Roger and Garp. Maybe Garp was a little inferior in strength to Roger.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

If anything we've been shown Oden is super strong, like every RHM (1st commander) of a Yonko and even till this day he'll be considered the strongest Yonko commander we've seen bar the PK's crew were Rayleigh sits as the strongest RHM of any pirate captain in the verse.

Oden as a commander is not on the level of Yonkos. He was able to clash with a younger Whitebeard who had no intention of fighting as a testament of being strong enough to join his crew.
In fact, there were many pirates during Oden's voyage with Whitebeard who were way stronger than him and Whitebeard was the only one capable of dealing with them.
This panel is an example:
View media item 23238
He stood no chance against prime Whitebeard's greatest rival Roger (who was ill BTW) and was badly injured in a single strike (even worse than what Big Mom did to Queen). He had to run away (again) and let Whitebeard face him.
It still shows the gap between Yonko/PK and their commanders is very significant.

The Oden vs Kaido parallel even made things more apparent. Kaido who was still in his younger days, not yet prime - perhaps at a similar level with current YC's back then, of which Oden is one, clashed evenly with Oden in their skirmishes.
He later defeated Oden in a OHKO style but not without sustaining injuries.

Oden is top Yonko commander level period. The only commander stronger than him would be Rayleigh.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

Regarding Pica, he is strong and has a big destructive capability, but I would still put him below Vergo

But why? Both have a full body haki which they use and we have no real measurement who has the stronger one. Pica seemed even quite confident that he can tank Zoros attack thanks to his haki. His DF is just the fruit of the cake which puts him above Vergo in my opinion.

 

[Fox666]

What do you guys define as "Yonko-level"?

There's a massive gap between the Yonko and their commanders, at least the ones we have seen. Enough that Kaido or Big Mom can defeat them in a single blow.

Oden is clearly much closer to the Yonko than the commanders. His clash with Whitebeard sent the rest of the Whitebeard Pirates flying. Another proof of that is that some of the Scabbards are commander-level, yet they talk about Oden like he was invincible.

I'm sure Oden would also defeat Luffy or Queen without breaking a sweat.

To put it into numbers:
- Whitebeard: 100
- Oden: 80
- Marco, Vista, etc: 20

For me that's Yonko-level. Btw, this is speculation, but I also expect Shanks will be a 80 compared to Whitebeard.

 

[nik87]

That's not that happened.
Whitebeard attacked Akainu by surprise, Akainu stood up and lethally wounded Whitebeard.
Whitebeard landed another attack, and Akainu disappeared. But in reality Akainu used it to sneak away and chase Luffy and Jinbe.
Akainu challanged the entirety of the Whitebeard Pirates afterwards, and took down one commander. It took Shanks to finally stop him.
Honestly it was a win for Akainu. Whitebeard was in a deplorable state, considering how easily the Blackbeard Pirates killed Whitebeard, Akainu could have finished him if that's what he wanted.

What do you mean "that's not what happened"? That's literally what happened, he ended Akainu with 2 punches while holding back.
Akainu didnt lethally wound Whitebeard, the ones who finished off Whitebeard are Blackbeard pirates. If you think missing an ear is lethal, what is Squardo's stab then? What is Kizaru's laser through his chest? What is clean shot in middle of the chest from Akainu? They are all potentially lethal but none of those have stopped the great Whitebeard.

In reality, the Red Dog Akainu, sneaked away? That's a nice way to say he lost to Whitebeard, cursing him while he was helpless to stand up...
Akainu definitely couldn't finish him since he couldn't even stand in front of Whitebeard, let's not joke ourselves here, it was clear as day.
Blackbeard Pirates killed Whitebeard "easily" because at that point his body was long past its limit and yet, in such state, he was still superior to Akainu.

 

[XXGenesis]

Oden wasnt Yonkou lv imo but he was close. And probably be Yonkou lv if he survived .

WB vs Akainu.....WB was old so imo that translate into W/E we saw WB do during Marinefor War, it all was limited. Give him his health and age back, his stamina & endurance increase. As for Power, he would of displayed more dominance

 

[nik87]

Oden said that if he couldnt beat Kaido, nobody else could in long time. That includes Whitebeard so it means that Oden considered himself possibly even stronger than Whitebeard. Kaido is a 1vs1 champ so it isnt a surprise that Oden was a "Yonko level"...

 

[thedude]

Oden said that if he couldnt beat Kaido, nobody else could in long time. That includes Whitebeard so it means that Oden considered himself possibly even stronger than Whitebeard. Kaido is a 1vs1 champ so it isnt a surprise that Oden was a "Yonko level"...

How do you make such massive leaps? Whitebeard was stronger than Oden. Oden was pushed aside easily by Roger, while Whitebeard fought Roger equally.

One Piece Chapter 966 Page 4

Read One Piece Chapter 966 Page 4 Online For Free

mangaseeonline.us

How do you make the leap that if Oden isn't enough to beat Kaido, WB isnt?

 

[HereNThere]

It's hard to gauge Oden's strength level since we never got a decent measurement for him. Every comparable person was in their early days, so the power they have now can't be compared to the power they had then.

His clashing with Whitebeard and blowing back the Commanders doesn't make much of a difference seeing as the Commanders weren't the Commanders we know now. Hell, Marco was still a cabin boy when they met.

The only thing that was made crystal clear was that he was inferior to Roger and Primebeard and there was no indication that he ever caught up to them.

Him getting a mark in Kaido isn't a great testament either. Not that it wasn't impressive, but again, Kaido then isn't Kaido now. At the least, they were shown to be comparable to each other and the fight was inconclusive. Kaido certainly wasn't out yet.

I'll say this though, if Oden did get to live to the present day, I assume he'd have been comparable to a Yonkou or a living legend like Rayleigh.