One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[nik87]

1. He didn't humiliate either Supernova he fought. Vs Hawkins, he was the only 1 injured of the 2 and he was running away so it was less of a fight and more of a tactical retreat. Vs Killer, Killer got him down just as easily as Zoro put him down (stomach issues or not.

2. He didn't split a mountain casually. He used his strongest attack to date(nonashura)

And was clearly tired from the fight. So no, not casual.

3. Said Admiral was clearly not by any means serious and just underestimated Zoro being able to break out of that level of gravity.

4. Showed flow haki but not of the highest grade. That belongs to Luffy.


All good feats, but not OMG impressive unless your a mega fanboy of the character. I think his most impressive of those feats was countering Fujitora, but we all know if Funjitora was serious it wouldn't have gone that smoothly.

And any way, impressive is a matter of opinion.

1. He did humiliate a Supernova. Killer was unable to pull his scythe out of Zoro. That's by far the biggest humiliation to date. Scaring a logia Monet shitless is nothing compared to this. Killer never downed Zoro. Zoro defeated Killer despite the injury and Killer only managed to injure him due to a 3rd party.
Luffy has yet to pull off such a humiliating feat against a fellow Supernova. Not just Luffy, basically anyone.
2. He used several nameless slashes which were dicing the mountain and the biggest slash - the vertical was no named as well - casual.
He wasnt tired, he used a lot of haki to lift and dice a mountain. No context can you come up with can make this not impressive.
3. Yeah, "he wasnt serious"... More serious than when he was pinning Law down for sure. Still cut through and pushed back an Admiral. Luffy only managed to push the Admiral back without being pressed by gravity, Zoro has better feat.
4. Luffy's haki flow is an excuse for those who cant harm Kaido's scales. Those who dont make excuses deal with the scales.

More impressive feats than what Luffy has...

 

[Pirate Queen]

More impressive feats than what Luffy has...

 

[afromarco005]

We haven't seen Shanks fight a real fight, so we don't know his main style. We do know he's considered one of the 4 strongest pirates, someone whose presence makes people reconsider fighting any longer...

It's not nitpicking to say that characters get stronger, not just the main character. We've seen it in this manga. Luffy got stronger, his crew got stronger. Colby got much stronger. Is he unique too? Is Colby able to grow but Shanks not?

Are you saying that in the 6 years between losing an arm and becoming a Yonko Shanks didn't grow? Is me asking that "nitpicking"?

So Shanks grew but not Mihawk ?
Get real dude stop overhyping Shanks.

 

[Luke Beifong]

1. He didn't humiliate either Supernova he fought. Vs Hawkins, he was the only 1 injured of the 2 and he was running away so it was less of a fight and more of a tactical retreat. Vs Killer, Killer got him down just as easily as Zoro put him down (stomach issues or not.

2. He didn't split a mountain casually. He used his strongest attack to date(nonashura)

And was clearly tired from the fight. So no, not casual.

3. Said Admiral was clearly not by any means serious and just underestimated Zoro being able to break out of that level of gravity.

4. Showed flow haki but not of the highest grade. That belongs to Luffy.


All good feats, but not OMG impressive unless your a mega fanboy of the character. I think his most impressive of those feats was countering Fujitora, but we all know if Funjitora was serious it wouldn't have gone that smoothly.

And any way, impressive is a matter of opinion.

Perfect arguments. The only thing I can add is, Pica didn’t seem so strong to me... His DF is broken and the landscape of Dressrosa give Pica power a huge help. I know @nik87 will say otherwise, but for me Pica is just a good matchup for Zoro and just because os his DF. Zoro fighting style is the better one to fight Pica power. Is much easier to cut a mountain in half than punch or kick it to dust. When Pica comes out of his stone golem, when the real fight can begin, he is defeated in one slice. Not a good fight, a few blows exchanged, just one attack and it’s all.

Zoro is one of my favorite characters in OP, but I’m not blind. Zoro is sub used in NW, that’s really sad for me. I just want a good fight against a good swordsman for real, like the fights we have in the good old days

 

[nik87]

When Pica comes out of his stone golem, when the real fight can begin,

You got it all wrong... Getting Pica out of golem is where the real fight is, once he is out of the golem, that's when the fight is over.

His DF is broken and the landscape of Dressrosa give Pica power a huge help.

Is he not allowed to make use of his DF? Since when is that a minus for anyone?

Dealing with Pica's golem is the main issue and most characters, even among high tier+ have not shown to be able to deal with regenerating mountain.

 

[thedude]

So Shanks grew but not Mihawk ?
Get real dude stop overhyping Shanks.

"stop overhyping the guy who is considered one of the 4 strongest pirates".

The only people overhyping someone are those trying to put a warlord on the level of the Yonko. Mihawk measures his distance in strength from WB from 200 yards away, Shanks casually strolls on his ship alone, knocks out his men, and clashes with him without breaking a sweat.

It's sad. I like Mihawk. Love Zoro. But the fanboys of these guys are more and more absurd trying to place them above everyone else.

 

[nik87]

"stop overhyping the guy who is considered one of the 4 strongest pirates".

The only people overhyping someone are those trying to put a warlord on the level of the Yonko. Mihawk measures his distance in strength from WB from 200 yards away, Shanks casually strolls on his ship alone, knocks out his men, and clashes with him without breaking a sweat.

It's sad. I like Mihawk. Love Zoro. But the fanboys of these guys are more and more absurd trying to place them above everyone else.

Your entire comment is based on false translations.

 

[thedude]

1. He did humiliate a Supernova. Killer was unable to pull his scythe out of Zoro. That's by far the biggest humiliation to date. Scaring a logia Monet shitless is nothing compared to this. Killer never downed Zoro. Zoro defeated Killer despite the injury and Killer only managed to injure him due to a 3rd party.
Luffy has yet to pull off such a humiliating feat against a fellow Supernova. Not just Luffy, basically anyone.
2. He used several nameless slashes which were dicing the mountain and the biggest slash - the vertical was no named as well - casual.
He wasnt tired, he used a lot of haki to lift and dice a mountain. No context can you come up with can make this not impressive.
3. Yeah, "he wasnt serious"... More serious than when he was pinning Law down for sure. Still cut through and pushed back an Admiral. Luffy only managed to push the Admiral back without being pressed by gravity, Zoro has better feat.
4. Luffy's haki flow is an excuse for those who cant harm Kaido's scales. Those who dont make excuses deal with the scales.

More impressive feats than what Luffy has...

lol, so Luffy learning an advanced technique is now going to be brushed aside as less impressive than regular Haki? I mean, I can say using Enma is an excuse for those who can't harm Kaido's scales with their own strength...

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 11, 2020, Original Post Date: Apr 11, 2020 ---

Your entire comment is based on false translations.

it's false that Mihawk was measuring his strength vs WB? It's false that Shanks casually walked on WB's ship and knocked out his crew and clashed with WB?

Maybe the pictures were also false?

 

[HereNThere]

Your entire comment is based on false translations.

What's the correct translation. Please give a source as well.

 

[nik87]

lol, so Luffy learning an advanced technique is now going to be brushed aside as less impressive than regular Haki? I mean, I can say using Enma is an excuse for those who can't harm Kaido's scales with their own strength...

Luffy cant harm the scales, Oden didnt have any issues. You tell me whats better...
You dont need Enma to cut Kaido, any sword will do. Ame no Habakiri already has proven that.

it's false that Mihawk was measuring his strength vs WB? It's false that Shanks casually walked on WB's ship and knocked out his crew and clashed with WB?
Maybe the pictures were also false?

Mihawk noticed WB's power declining and he wanted to test him, to see if he can handle the slash. Mihawk was right, Marco confirms it after Squardo's stab.
He wasnt measuring his own power, his was measuring Whitebeard's power.

What's the correct translation. Please give a source as well.

I think it can be found somewhere in the Wayback machine archives of this forum, Stephen Paul's translations, afaik.
I'll ask around if anyone can find it for me.

 

[HereNThere]

I think it can be found somewhere in the Wayback machine archives of this forum, Stephen Paul's translations, afaik.
I'll ask around if anyone can find it for me.

With my brief bit of detective work, Stephen Paul stopped his translations at 545 and didn't pick up the translations again until recently, so, unless of course you asked him yourself, his translations for that particular chapter aren't available.

 

[nik87]

With my brief bit of detective work, Stephen Paul stopped his translations at 545 and didn't pick up the translations again until recently, so, unless of course you asked him yourself, his translations for that particular chapter aren't available.

Correct, not available for ch.553.
Here is his translation for ch 432:

@Fox666 You also provided somewhere the explanation for Raws using kanji for political power instead actual physical power?

Here is etenboby's and denden mushi's take on Mihawk's speech about WB, they are known translators:

Spoiler

 

[HereNThere]

Hmm, okay, that brings more perspective to Mihawk's character.

However, I don't really see what this contributes to the comparison between Mihawk and Shanks. All I'm seeing is that Mihawk determined WB was sick and he himself admits that the gap between the two of them is smaller than it should have been.

 

[Fox666]

@Fox666 You also provided somewhere the explanation for Raws using kanji for political power instead actual physical power?

Not exactly, I just pointed out it doesn't actually says anything about their strength

Good catch

Spoiler

今や星の数程おる海賊達の中で......かの"白ヒゲ"に並ぶ
四人の大海賊の内の一人じゃ"偉大なる航路"の後半の海に
まるで"皇帝"の様に君臨するそやつらを
世に「四皇」と呼ぶ!!!

There are as many pirates as there are stars...... And the ones along with "White Beard" (I'm not sure about the first sentence, but it just means there are many pirates)
He's one of the four great pirates, over the second half of the "Grand Line"
They reign just like "emperors"
Around the world they are called "Four Emperors"!!!

四人の大海賊 just mean four great pirates

 

[Fox666]

Just wait for a Mihawk ou Skanks fight and BON! This thread will explode

Can you imagine it?

There will be like, a flashback of 1 panel in the manga showing their swords clashing

And the balloon will say something like "we fought in the past... before I lost my arm..."

And it will turn into a 200 pages long heated debate

 

[afromarco005]

"stop overhyping the guy who is considered one of the 4 strongest pirates".

The only people overhyping someone are those trying to put a warlord on the level of the Yonko. Mihawk measures his distance in strength from WB from 200 yards away, Shanks casually strolls on his ship alone, knocks out his men, and clashes with him without breaking a sweat.

It's sad. I like Mihawk. Love Zoro. But the fanboys of these guys are more and more absurd trying to place them above everyone

So you are going to use the fact that Mihawk was a shichibukai to discredit him? Blackbeard was a schichibukai too now is considered a yonko. Or do you think that Mihawk is as strong as moria or buggy?

The only difference is that you guys cant possibly consider the possibility that Shanks could be weaker than someone (even if just by a little) so you will try to find all sorts of excuses and reasons to put Mihawk lower when neither him or mihawk have any concrete feats.

Some go as far as saying that Shanks is not a swordsman just so it could fit their headcanons.
What if Mihawk is stronger than Shanks? it doesn't take anything away from the yonko he is still a top tier fighter in his verse...

Mihawk was Shanks rival but is the only one who got the world strongest swordsman title at the end of their many duels.
Finally, there is a reason why Zoro's objective is Mihawk and not Shanks.

 

[Luke Beifong]

You got it all wrong... Getting Pica out of golem is where the real fight is, once he is out of the golem, that's when the fight is over.

Is he not allowed to make use of his DF? Since when is that a minus for anyone?

Dealing with Pica's golem is the main issue and most characters, even among high tier+ have not shown to be able to deal with regenerating mountain.

No, don’t get me wrong. It’s not a problem for Pica to use his DF powers. But it’s what you said, his powers are troublesome for the majority of the contenders in Dressrosa, Zoro is the only one that can put a fight against his powers. And that’s for me is a problem... I want to see what Zoro and the others learn in the time skip, not them overtaking everyone like it’s nothing. Just imagine if Luffy or other SH fights Pica and Zoro fights Diamante? For me that’s a lot more interesting than that golem pursuit that Zoro do with Pica

 

[nik87]

So you are going to use the fact that Mihawk was a shichibukai to discredit him? Blackbeard was a schichibukai too now is considered a yonko. Or do you think that Mihawk is as strong as moria or buggy?

I agree, the title doesnt affect his strength, besides there is no better title for a single individual other than WSx and Oda spread them out to 3 characters.
Weevil was as strong as he is even before he got the title and he is compared to Whitebeard's prime...

No, don’t get me wrong. It’s not a problem for Pica to use his DF powers. But it’s what you said, his powers are troublesome for the majority of the contenders in Dressrosa, Zoro is the only one that can put a fight against his powers. And that’s for me is a problem... I want to see what Zoro and the others learn in the time skip, not them overtaking everyone like it’s nothing. Just imagine if Luffy or other SH fights Pica and Zoro fights Diamante? For me that’s a lot more interesting than that golem pursuit that Zoro do with Pica

Well, I would say that Law and Fujitora can deal with Pica too. Luffy can at least stall if he cannot beat him.
Zoro fighting Diamante results in Diamante being dead in 1 second. Giving him to one-legged Kuros at least looked like a decent fight.

 

[afromarco005]

I'm not sure about how strong Mihawk is supposed to be

There's are numerous indications that the Shichibukai are no match for the Yonko, and the Shichibukai strength is comparable to the commanders. This would includes Mihawk

Evidence:

• Garp says the Yonko are the strongest pirates in the world
• The 3 Admirals are called the "World Government's strongest", meaning they are more powerful than any force of the World Government, including the Shichibukai and Cipher Pol
• Mihawk fought equally with Vista during the war
• Kaido mocked Luffy and Law for "defeating a Shichibukai or two"

However, Mihawk is called the "strongest swordman"

• We have seen Shanks or Big Mom using swords. I would expect Mihawk could win against any of them in a sword fight, given his title
• This would also be consistent with Mihawk dueling with Shanks in the past
• Vista and Ryuma are the only known swordman who were capable of turning their blades black

But that raises the question, how was Vista still standing? When the likes of Oden or Roger used their swords, the Whitebeard Pirates were sent flying by the shockwave, including Vista. A Yonko-level swordman should be able to defeat Vista instantly

My theory is that either

• Mihawk wasnt serious or at 100% as he was enjoying a workout. Mihawk is spending most of his time alone in his castle so he didnt want to end the fight too quickly(especially against a world tier swordsman like vista). Further proving this theory is the fact that mihawk never used any of his named attacks only resorting to unamed slashes and came out of the war unscathed.
• Another theory is that Vista is very skilled and may very well be stronger than we think. And we have seen that in one piece fights can last for hours or even days when top tiers are fighting. If Vista challenged Shanks it could end up during a few hours/Days too.
• Last reason and my least favourite is that Vista was a plot device to prevent Mihawk from having a bigger role in the war.

Anyways Mihawk is the stronger character until proven that Shanks is not a swordsman.

As for roger no idea we dont have enough info.

There are a few characters with a "world strongest" but for some reason only Mihawk doesn't get the respect and hype he deserves.

 

[afromarco005]

I agree, the title doesnt affect his strength, besides there is no better title for a single individual other than WSx and Oda spread them out to 3 characters.
Weevil was as strong as he is even before he got the title and he is compared to Whitebeard's prime...

Well, I would say that Law and Fujitora can deal with Pica too. Luffy can at least stall if he cannot beat him.
Zoro fighting Diamante results in Diamante being dead in 1 second. Giving him to one-legged Kuros at least looked like a decent fight.

Exactly Oda chose to give the world strongest moniker to only 3 characters yet only mihawk gets disrespected I don't get it.