Canon Sanji vs Vergo in PH

[goldb]

This isn't about Zoro. You all need to stop bringing him up ( or any characters for that matter) unless he's fought opponents you're debating Sanji against, or can otherwise show some relevance to your discussion.

Debate your points constructively, provide evidence where possible and respect each other's opinions.

Failing that, don't post; noone is being forced into a debate. Move on; there are plenty of threads and discussions you can be involved in. I will close this thread if you continue posting the same crap over and over again.

 

[XXGenesis]

I've mentioned the manga several times including how Sanji continued to fight Vergo with his broken leg without any issue and Sanji's history of breaking through hard defenses before... on top of never using Hell Memories and fighting cuisine. Your just ignoring my point because they clearly counter any point you could make.in fact it is you who hasnt countered a single point. I even proved Smoker intentionally lost to Vergo as his true aim was getting Law's heart, thus countering your point about Smoker and you completely ignored it.

0 conjecture. Everything I have stated is fact. Haki is not infinite, Sanji was no debilitated by the break and he didn't use haki while his first kick that connected to Vergo caused Vergo to fall back and instantly became bloody.

Better haki is not the deciding factor in a 1 v 1.

But I bet you are tired so I'll just leave it here unless you wish to continue.... Which I know your going to.

Haki is limited. We've seen only Luffy run out of Haki. *Law criticizes G4 saying he uses too much haki...

Imo Vergo's & Pica's fullbody Haki is slightly similar, it's not something they can do for an entire battle. That being said, we saw both characters use it to end their fights, not during.....

Manga alludes to Vergo having better CoA haki. Sanji* loses fighters IQ points for not haki'ing up. Vergo has feats of having better haki than another VA Smoker. Same VA Smoker who lost to Law miserably..Fandom all the aside, VA Smoker alone seems to be a High/Extreme diff for Sanji. So why would Vergo lose?

Sanji felt His Father's spear, from a brief clash...That's a low showing feat.

let's talk stamina & endurance. Why was Sanji tired and exhausted when he tried to save Luffy. He was slow ass hell, and couldn't manage to get away or provide solid defense against non executive BMP.

Wikia Sanji's technique for the New World..He has 2 offensive moves...

There's Hype, Feats and speculation/potential for growth...

With 2 offensive moves and no fights his hype is meh. Feats are also mehish..Potential is still there. Look honestly..let's Say Vergo was saved for dressrosa..Sanji defeating Vergo with extreme or high diff is possible....but it's a what if, maybe Win, a win we need Oda to create to give Sanji more machismo.

Its Not a concrete Sanji kicks this guys ass..It leans to, Vergo walking Sanji like a dog. Like he did to Smoky.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Haki is limited. We've seen only Luffy run out of Haki. *Law criticizes G4 saying he uses too much haki...

Imo Vergo's & Pica's fullbody Haki is slightly similar, it's not something they can do for an entire battle. That being said, we saw both characters use it to end their fights, not during.....

Manga alludes to Vergo having better CoA haki. Sanji* loses fighters IQ points for not haki'ing up. Vergo has feats of having better haki than another VA Smoker. Same VA Smoker who lost to Law miserably..Fandom all the aside, VA Smoker alone seems to be a High/Extreme diff for Sanji. So why would Vergo lose?

Sanji felt His Father's spear, from a brief clash...That's a low showing feat.

let's talk stamina & endurance. Why was Sanji tired and exhausted when he tried to save Luffy. He was slow ass hell, and couldn't manage to get away or provide solid defense against non executive BMP.

Wikia Sanji's technique for the New World..He has 2 offensive moves...

There's Hype, Feats and speculation/potential for growth...

With 2 offensive moves and no fights his hype is meh. Feats are also meh..Potential is still there. Look honestly..let's Say Vergo was saved for dressrosa..Sanji defeating Vergo with extreme or high diff is possible....but it's a what if, maybe..Win. Not a concrete Sanji kicks this guys ass..

That's an interesting take on it for sure.

 

[XXGenesis]

So if Vergo can possibly defeat P1. Which I dont Believ I think P1 has him beat Mid Diff.

P1 vs Sanji...Sanji never drew blood from P1 he tanked all his attacks with a boost he got from equipment.

This all leads me to believe. Sanji just lacks the offensive penetrating power of CoA haki, to defeat a bulk out Vergo.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

RS Sanji might win, but i dont think sanji wins here

 

[XXGenesis]

RS Sanji might win, but i dont think sanji wins here

RS definitely wins.
Vergo still took damage from DJ & Smoker's blow. He's a mini tank that bruises. So RS would have keeling over.

Vergo cracked Sanji bone after he recieved a blow and turnt it up a notch. So I doubt Sanji has a way to K.O when he's Bulk'd Out.

 

[M3J]

Sanji wins. Vergo hasn't shown overwhelming power, and Sanji was still able to move even after the damage from Vergo's haki, so Sanji can last longer than people think. Vergo has a tough defense, but so far his only feat was making Sanji say he'd be in trouble if the fight continued, which would be true as Sanji would likely win with injuries a lot like Luffy and Zoro usually do.

 

[XXGenesis]

Sanji wins. Vergo hasn't shown overwhelming power, and Sanji was still able to move even after the damage from Vergo's haki, so Sanji can last longer than people think. Vergo has a tough defense, but so far his only feat was making Sanji say he'd be in trouble if the fight continued, which would be true as Sanji would likely win with injuries a lot like Luffy and Zoro usually do.

Ok, not being funny. But your deduction and opinion that Sanji wins is more more speculative. Than it is factual or based on manga feats..

I'm not attacking you. It's just the phantom upper limit ppl speculate Sanji has just isnt backed by the manga, but feeling and speculation.

 

[M3J]

I don't really care, Vergo doesn't have feats either as far as I recall, other than having hard haki that fractured Sanji's leg, who went from smarting to moving like nothing. If Sanji shows hardening like Vergo, then there's no reason to believe Sanji wouldn't win.

 

[XXGenesis]

I don't really care, Vergo doesn't have feats either as far as I recall, other than having hard haki that fractured Sanji's leg, who went from smarting to moving like nothing. If Sanji shows hardening like Vergo, then there's no reason to believe Sanji wouldn't win.

you dont even make factual sense. Vergo actually had a Fight PTS in One Piece, Sanji has not.

Vergo didnt show overwhelming power?
Who are you comparing him to a Yonkou. He whipped Law & Smoker.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

He whipped Law & Smoker.

Jeah he wipped Law because he had his heart and got oneshotted afterwards.

 

[M3J]

you dont even make factual sense. Vergo actually had a Fight PTS in One Piece, Sanji has not.

Vergo didnt show overwhelming power?
Who are you comparing him to a Yonkou. He whipped Law & Smoker.

I know Sanji would beat Vergo. Vergo's only feat was beating a kid Law and Smoker who was trying to buy Law time so he could find his heart. There's literally no feat here, and he even used haki to defend against Sanji, who went from claiming he was injured to moving around without an issue and fighting. And if you're using Vergo vs. Sanji as a feat for Vergo, Vergo basically hurt an already injured and battered Sanji.

 

[XXGenesis]

Jeah he wipped Law because he had his heart and got oneshotted afterwards.

Yea, but look at when Law tried to get his heart back what happened. He even took a counter shock and endured it. Depending on what a characters ability and skills are physical and defense stats matter. So Vergo was able to hurt Law enough physically and DF powers aside, Vergo's defense was pretty solid...

Vergo has good positioning the Marines & Doffy was confident in hin taking out Law n Smoker...Vergo was def stronger than Smoker, So was Law. So Sanji is def 2nd from the bottom, above smoker....who showed better haki, Sanji just has more power with his legs than Smoker's fist..but haki matters a lot PTS

 

[M3J]

In the end, Law still beat Vergo after Smoker distracted him long enough so Law could get his heart back. Despite Sanji's fractured leg that had him wincing, he was still moving and running like nothing happened. Doflamingo's confidence was likely due to Vergo beating up a kid Law more than adult Law's strength.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

yeah vergo wins this. His CoA is too much for sanji.
Maybe sanji post wano arc can do this, depends how good sanji perform in this onigashima raid

 

[King Moe]

yeah vergo wins this. His CoA is too much for sanji.
Maybe sanji post wano arc can do this, depends how good sanji perform in this onigashima raid

Nah, Vergo is defeated. He couldn't beat even him even Nerf. Vergo gets defeated easily and one-shots by current Sanji at this point.

Though I do know certain 'weapon user' who have trouble with someone like this.

 

[M3J]

Sanji wins this one. I can't imagine the Monster Quartet not beating Vergo one-on-one, especially given the trio's ability to push themselves.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

Nah, Vergo is defeated. He couldn't beat even him even Nerf. Vergo gets defeated easily and one-shots by current Sanji at this point.

nah vergo wins. He broke sanji legs in one hit and wasn't even serious (no bamboo or full hardening)

Though I do know certain 'weapon user' who have trouble with someone like this.

RS sanji? Well i agree that RS sanji would have trouble with vergo. Vergo has good CoA game going

 

[sir_rocky]

I don't post much but i used to come here and read some interesting discussions.
Lately in every thread i start reading it's only Zoro fans downplaying Sanji or Sanji fans downplaying Zoro.
Please just give up, it's pointless. You are never going to agree because you don't care what other people say and what arguments they have.
If it is not the same as what you think then it is wrong.

If Sanji and Vergo continued to fight I believe that Sanji would win.

So what if he got injured, they get heavily injured in many fights and win in the end. You can't look at injuries in One Piece the same way as in real world.
They heal broken bones with milk and still fight after they lose enough blood for five people and even get stronger instead of weaker.

Without RS i don't think there is much difference between Sanji in Wano and PH. Sanji simply didn't show his full strength because there was no need to do it, just like someone said that Luffy had gear 4 but didn't use it until Dressrosa.

 

[XXGenesis]

I don't post much but i used to come here and read some interesting discussions.
Lately in every thread i start reading it's only Zoro fans downplaying Sanji or Sanji fans downplaying Zoro.
Please just give up, it's pointless. You are never going to agree because you don't care what other people say and what arguments they have.
If it is not the same as what you think then it is wrong.

If Sanji and Vergo continued to fight I believe that Sanji would win.

You’ve stated your opinion. Sanji would have won.
What’s your argument/reasoning to that? I’m juss curious.

So what if he got injured, they get heavily injured in many fights and win in the end. You can't look at injuries in One Piece the same way as in real world.
[\QUOTE]

Injuries matter, because the manga would be boring as hell, if the SHP just kicked ass and never took damage every single fight. We’re reading a fictional story so it’s part of the story elements of suspended belief. It Shows the difficulty of the battle, I.E Every battle SHP were bloodied but pulled a win through new ability or w/e.

So being injured by Vergo showed Vergo had better CoA & Sanji doesn’t. Also shows Vergo is durable and can endure Sanji’s attack just like Jabura was doing

Without RS i don't think there is much difference between Sanji in Wano and PH. Sanji simply didn't show his full strength because there was no need to do it, just like someone said that Luffy had gear 4 but didn't use it until Dressrosa.
[/QUOTE]

Agreed. But there were chances/opportunities/circumstances for Sanji to show a glimpse of something more/different since FIshman Island...He hasn’t besides getting a equipment boost. I.e...Rescuing Luffy after his fight with Katakuri...Sanji needed help from his siblings anOr Should I Say he hasn’t given enough to tip many opinions the other way...

Sanji hasn’t shown that lv of CoA Haki or Physical power before his RS that would let me believe he could have won.....Without Heavy/extreme Difficulty....

If many believe Sanji can’t beat Smoker w/o RS. Then it’s the same for Vergo. Smoker in the manga did terrible against Vergo.