Theory Final Tournament Line-up Discussion/Predictions

[Kaoz]

i think ryoga will join swiss rather than spain..maybe there will be a s3 match between amadeus and medanore that resulted in amadeus first lost..ryoga plays s1 for swiss and pick up the win with 3-2..

It's not really Konomi's style to show upcoming opponents lose. If the quarters or semis end 3-2, we'll either jump in at S1 without knowing who lost to whom or it'll be revealed that the losses weren't reflective of those players' true strength like in Rikkai vs Nagoya. It also seems unlikely that a big shot like Amadeus would lose unless it gets him a power-up.

i dunno what ryoga's motive for luring echizen to join america ??

He probably just wanted to play together with Ryoma on the same team. If Ryoma hadn't gotten kicked out of the Japanese camp, chances are Ryoga would've stayed as well.

for semifinal to final, what is the order of match ? does it in s3 d2 s2 d1 s1 orders or starts with two doubles ??

It's unlikely that the order will change between rounds, so doubles then singles.

does the tournament registration still open ? for players to switch team l.

No.

can they switch player ? i think duke vs camus is at s2 rather than s1 because i dont think duke can win against camus. he did suffered lost to swiss's double before. what if japan won 3-1 ? duke and camus will not take place.. thats not cool.. we did liked to see all the introduced characters will play their match.. such as greece, hermes n vulcan.. australia, hewitt n crawford..

We don't know. It's not clear if the switching rule still applies in the main tournament. But the probability that Camus doesn't play is just about zero.

 

[Kaoz]

Over the past few days, I've been wondering if more middle schoolers will play during these final two rounds than we've imagined so far. Specifically, all the remaining ones. There are ten middle schoolers who have yet to take the court:

• Atobe
• Yukimura
• Sengoku
• Kintaro
• Marui
• Fuji
• Nio
• Oshitari
• Kite
• Kirihara

Eleven, if you count Ryoma's potential repeat, maybe as the reserve or whatever.

Of course, this doesn't leave many spots for the high schoolers, but we know the middle schoolers are the stars of the show and it's not inconceivable that Konomi would want to put the finals mostly in their hands. It'd be a different take on his original scenario, where the teams were split and the high schoolers defeated, only for the middle schoolers to take the glory in the end. Tokugawa and Irie are probably going to play, and then you can pick the remaining ones from Byodoin, Tanegashima, Duke, and Oni.

We could, for example, have something like this:

Vs Germany
D2 Tanegashima/Kirihara
D1 Byodoin/Sengoku
S3 Fuji
S2 Yukimura
S1 Tokugawa

Vs Spain
D2 Oshitari/Nio
D1 Kite/Marui
S3 Kintaro
S2 Irie
S1 Atobe
RS Ryoma

We had Tokugawa lead a group of middle schoolers against the G10 and Oni captain them during the group league, so maybe it's Irie's turn to do the same in the finals.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

Over the past few days, I've been wondering if more middle schoolers will play during these final two rounds than we've imagined so far. Specifically, all the remaining ones. There are ten middle schoolers who have yet to take the court:

• Atobe
• Yukimura
• Sengoku
• Kintaro
• Marui
• Fuji
• Nio
• Oshitari
• Kite
• Kirihara

Eleven, if you count Ryoma's potential repeat, maybe as the reserve or whatever.

Of course, this doesn't leave many spots for the high schoolers, but we know the middle schoolers are the stars of the show and it's not inconceivable that Konomi would want to put the finals mostly in their hands. It'd be a different take on his original scenario, where the teams were split and the high schoolers defeated, only for the middle schoolers to take the glory in the end. Tokugawa and Irie are probably going to play, and then you can pick the remaining ones from Byodoin, Tanegashima, Duke, and Oni.

We could, for example, have something like this:

Vs Germany
D2 Tanegashima/Kirihara
D1 Byodoin/Sengoku
S3 Fuji
S2 Yukimura
S1 Tokugawa

Vs Spain
D2 Oshitari/Nio
D1 Kite/Marui
S3 Kintaro
S2 Irie
S1 Atobe
RS Ryoma

We had Tokugawa lead a group of middle schoolers against the G10 and Oni captain them during the group league, so maybe it's Irie's turn to do the same in the finals.

Now We know that.

S3 - Oni
D2- Niou/Duke
S2 -?
D1-?
S1?

If Volk and Tezuka is in Singles,it will be hard to place middle schooler against them. Except if Japan win both doubles.

 

[Kaoz]

@Hardy and I talked line-ups earlier and came to the conclusion that, surprisingly, Irie might not be a bad pick for the Germany S1 match. The idea mostly rests on the birthday theory, which has been around for a while, and that with the current pace, there's not really many candidates that would work out for the S1 match.

To briefly reiterate, the theory came up because vs France, the matches lined up with the MSers' birthdays. It held for Oni and Duke and while we're a month off in Niou's and Yukimura's case, that's still reasonably close. If we assume S2 will go on for about half a year, D1 might be revealed in September or October, which would work for Kirihara's, who is a fair candidate for D1 to begin with. D1 might then be a bit shorter than S2, say three months or so, meaning we could be looking at January 2021 for S1.

Now, looking at a list of potential candidates for S1, with their birthdays, we get the following list:

• Byoudouin: July 4
• Tanegashima: May 29
• Tokugawa: July 27
• Irie: December 7
• Atobe: October 4
• Kintarou: April 1
• Fuji: February 29
• Ryoma: December 24

Going by the theory, Atobe is out for sure. Byoudouin and Tokugawa could work if all three matches run really long, but even then it'd be at the very end of the S1 match, which wouldn't follow the pattern we've seen so far. Tanegashima and Kintarou are closer, but still face the same issue. So overall we're left with Irie, Fuji and Ryoma.

Fuji is probably the least likely candidate from that list to begin with. Ryoma seems like a fair pick; depends on how you feel about him playing all three rounds I guess.

Irie could be interesting and having him beat Volk would be a pretty amazing payoff after him hiding his skills for 300 chapters.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

@Hardy and I talked line-ups earlier and came to the conclusion that, surprisingly, Irie might not be a bad pick for the Germany S1 match. The idea mostly rests on the birthday theory, which has been around for a while, and that with the current pace, there's not really many candidates that would work out for the S1 match.

To briefly reiterate, the theory came up because vs France, the matches lined up with the MSers' birthdays. It held for Oni and Duke and while we're a month off in Niou's and Yukimura's case, that's still reasonably close. If we assume S2 will go on for about half a year, D1 might be revealed in September or October, which would work for Kirihara's, who is a fair candidate for D1 to begin with. D1 might then be a bit shorter than S2, say three months or so, meaning we could be looking at January 2021 for S1.

Now, looking at a list of potential candidates for S1, with their birthdays, we get the following list:

• Byoudouin: July 4
• Tanegashima: May 29
• Tokugawa: July 27
• Irie: December 7
• Atobe: October 4
• Kintarou: April 1
• Fuji: February 29
• Ryoma: December 24

Going by the theory, Atobe is out for sure. Byoudouin and Tokugawa could work if all three matches run really long, but even then it'd be at the very end of the S1 match, which wouldn't follow the pattern we've seen so far. Tanegashima and Kintarou are closer, but still face the same issue. So overall we're left with Irie, Fuji and Ryoma.

Fuji is probably the least likely candidate from that list to begin with. Ryoma seems like a fair pick; depends on how you feel about him playing all three rounds I guess.

Irie could be interesting and having him beat Volk would be a pretty amazing payoff after him hiding his skills for 300 chapters.

Wow. Interesting theory. But I would disagree with Fuji. He have higher chance than ryoma.

if Fuji beats volk, then it means he surpassed tezuka. And able tho have success with hos new style.

Ryoma already played vs france. and maybr in finals too.

That would be interesting for irie. Thats why I made a thread about him.

 

[ShadowHeart]

I'm curious who's gonna get the 4 remaining singles spots well 3 because it's obvious Ryoma will get one. Because you Byo, Irie, Tane from HS and Atobe, Fuji, Kin-chan from MS. I said Tane but I suspect he'll play D1 in the match with Seaweed boy.

 

[Kaoz]

if Fuji beats volk, then it means he surpassed tezuka. And able tho have success with hos new style.

Technically true, but Fuji doesn't really feel like a S1 pick to me. I guess mostly because first Tezuka and later Ryoma got priority over him and Fuji was almost always confined to S2 or doubles. So I'd consider him a bigger surprise than Ryoma vs Volk, personally.

I said Tane but I suspect he'll play D1 in the match with Seaweed boy.

Still wondering if he's going to play at all. I'd like to see him again in a longer match, but looking back, he's had less of a player and more of a mentor role in various situations. Starting with his introduction and him just observing the team shuffle - unlike Tokugawa, Irie and Oni, who all actively stood on the court within the first 30 chapters of the series - the whole bit with Shiraishi, and then helping Tohno and Kimijima to sort out their differences.

Despite Tanegashima being the no. 2 guy, it wouldn't be shocking if he helped out someone else in some way instead of playing another match I think.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

Technically true, but Fuji doesn't really feel like a S1 pick to me. I guess mostly because first Tezuka and later Ryoma got priority over him and Fuji was almost always confined to S2 or doubles. So I'd consider him a bigger surprise than Ryoma vs Volk, personally.

Imagine Fuji beating volk by finding his real self. He will be the strongest middle schooler in an instant. And will be a true genius.

Fuji is the only seigaku character that ryoma did not defeat. In fact Fuji is leading, and not even serious.

Fuji could beat shiraishi if he is serious from the start.

Actually I have a feeling that Ryoga, Ryoma, Tezuka, Fuji will battle each other in ATP pro grand slam tennis version of prince of tennis.

Back to the topic,

As I said the key for japan is for Yuki to win. Bismarck and Siegfried are easily defeatable by a lot of genius 10. And Japan will win 3-1. Volk will not play doubles. Germany doesnt have a strong singles player left.

 

[Ichiruki1512]

I hope Marui get to play. We'll whats the sense of adding him in the chosen lineup
Renji was newly added and got a match already

 

[mathematicianrcg]

I hope Marui get to play. We'll whats the sense of adding him in the chosen lineup
Renji was newly added and got a match already

Maybe because he is weak compared to the competition they are now. I think even frankensteiner will beat marui.

But if Irie/Marui will play doubles 1 against sieg/bismarck, I am still leaning towards germany. Because so far, irie doesnt show us anything yet that says that he is very strong.

I will even say Kirihara have more chance to play compared to marui.

 

[André Vinícius]

Maybe because he is weak compared to the competition they are now. I think even frankensteiner will beat marui.

That's kinda rude to Frankensteiner, it sounds like he is weak when he is one of the strongest MSr around.

But if Irie/Marui will play doubles 1 against sieg/bismarck, I am still leaning towards germany. Because so far, irie doesnt show us anything yet that says that he is very strong.

Weren't you the one saying that D1 was easy victory for Japan ?

And about Marui, he still has 3 more chances to play, and as his partner I can only think of Ochi or Kite, if he goes with Kite vs Spain my bet is on Japan doubles, but if he goes with Ochi vs Germany I don't think they could win. Marui/Ochi vs Spain i guess 50-50, not sure.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

That's kinda rude to Frankensteiner, it sounds like he is weak when he is one of the strongest MSr around.


Weren't you the one saying that D1 was easy victory for Japan ?

And about Marui, he still has 3 more chances to play, and as his partner I can only think of Ochi or Kite, if he goes with Kite vs Spain my bet is on Japan doubles, but if he goes with Ochi vs Germany I don't think they could win. Marui/Ochi vs Spain i guess 50-50, not sure.

But frank is the weakest among germany lineup. (known players). And he is a robotish. He have no brain. Sorry, I mean little brain.

Germany
1.Volk
2. Qp
3. Tezuka
4. Bismarck
5. Bertie
6. Scheidner
7.Siegfried
8.Frankensteiner

Yes. Sieg/Bis are beatable. But not to the point that Japan will pick as low as a level of marui. I consider marui low tier. very low tier.
I will even choose kirihara/kintaro(both younger) than marui to play D1. Isnt marui the second weakest in rikkai?(jackal and him are 1 and 2 in rikkais weakest). I cant believe he is chosen over renji. Maybe because renji/inui will sideline as data staff

 

[Adamska]

But frank is the weakest among germany lineup. (known players). And he is a robotish. He have no brain. Sorry, I mean little brain.

Germany
1.Volk
2. Qp
3. Tezuka
4. Bismarck
5. Bertie
6. Scheidner
7.Siegfried
8.Frankensteiner

Yes. Sieg/Bis are beatable. But not to the point that Japan will pick as low as a level of marui. I consider marui low tier. very low tier.
I will even choose kirihara/kintaro(both younger) than marui to play D1. Isnt marui the second weakest in rikkai?(jackal and him are 1 and 2 in rikkais weakest). I cant believe he is chosen over renji. Maybe because renji/inui will sideline as data staff

Well, one thing about THE list! Nr 3 Tezuka? what we know about Bismark? Nothing! he's too mysterious ... and remind u that double match is different than single! and both of them are PRO! now about Siegfried! He's in Tezuka level for sure maybe Tezuka a bit stronger but i'm not sure! However after this game, maybe that happend! Right now,no! and Frankensteiner He is the weakest But Remember he passed Black Hole! So still Dangerous!
So the list:
1.Volk
2. Qp
3. Bismarck? Or 4
4. Bertie ? 3?
5. Scheidner
6. Tezuka (After this game maybe 4 or 5?)..(he will win against Yuki OR draw)
7.Siegfried
8.Frankensteiner

 

[mathematicianrcg]

Well, one thing about THE list! Nr 3 Tezuka? what we know about Bismark? Nothing! he's too mysterious ... and remind u that double match is different than single! and both of them are PRO! now about Siegfried! He's in Tezuka level for sure maybe Tezuka a bit stronger but i'm not sure! However after this game, maybe that happend! Right now,no! and Frankensteiner He is the weakest But Remember he passed Black Hole! So still Dangerous!
So the list:
1.Volk
2. Qp
3. Bismarck? Or 4
4. Bertie ? 3?
5. Scheidner
6. Tezuka (After this game maybe 4 or 5?)..(he will win against Yuki OR draw)
7.Siegfried
8.Frankensteiner

There is a reason why I put tezuka at 3. And If Tezuka wins by an aura stronger than POP. It will validate his top 3 ranking on germany.

Bismarck- I may consider him= tezuka but not better. Maybe they are equal. But I go towards tezuka because he is trained by volk. And Bismarck arrogance also affects his mental strength and focus.

Bertie/Scheidner- I doubt they will be as strong in singles. They are still elite but not as great as they are in doubles. So I will rank Tezuka above them in singles. I believe Tezuka will beat Scheidner easily especially his gigantamax will not be effective. Bertie would be tougher, but Tezuka can pull a win mid difficulty.

Siegfried- Really? The one who was affected by a single Duke Homerun, and just sit aside majority of the match. I doubt tezuka will be affected by Duke Homerun especially zone/phantom can counter it. I believe Tezuka may beat duke 1v1 depending on the circumstances.
It looks like Tezuka>Duke>Siegfried. So I dont think siegfried is in the level of tezuka.

 

[André Vinícius]

Siegfried- Really? The one who was affected by a single Duke Homerun, and just sit aside majority of the match. I doubt tezuka will be affected by Duke Homerun especially zone/phantom can counter it. I believe Tezuka may beat duke 1v1 depending on the circumstances.
It looks like Tezuka>Duke>Siegfried. So I dont think siegfried is in the level of tezuka.

The funny thing here is that Siegfried only mistake was lowing his guard (Tezuka wouldn't have, probably ?) now, are you saying that a MSr would not be sent flying the same way Siegfried was when getting hit by a duke homerun right in the face ? or are you saying that Tezuka would use phantom to counter the homerun so he would not get hit by it ? because if you are saying that Tezuka can counter, well Siegfried clearly counter duke homerun, and without even using any technique (and countering Fuji wind at the same time), and now he also has TnK, the only advantage that Tezuka has over Siegfried is Zone/Phantom but even that is not 100% since we have never really saw Sieg playing and he seems to use a counter playstyle so for now is hard to say

 

[mathematicianrcg]

The funny thing here is that Siegfried only mistake was lowing his guard (Tezuka wouldn't have, probably ?) now, are you saying that a MSr would not be sent flying the same way Siegfried was when getting hit by a duke homerun right in the face ? or are you saying that Tezuka would use phantom to counter the homerun so he would not get hit by it ? because if you are saying that Tezuka can counter, well Siegfried clearly counter duke homerun, and without even using any technique (and countering Fuji wind at the same time), and now he also has TnK, the only advantage that Tezuka has over Siegfried is Zone/Phantom but even that is not 100% since we have never really saw Sieg playing and he seems to use a counter playstyle so for now is hard to say

I meant to say tezuka's phantom will counter duke homerun. And Tezuka will not let his guard down. He is more humble and not arrogant(Arrogance is the biggest weakness of siegfried)

The one who discovered the counter for duke homerun first is bismarck. Siegfried just adapt and got an idea while sitting aside 90% of the match. Again, 90% of the match sitting down. And I believe bismarck setup siegfried in that last rally.

I doubt siegfried POP will be that strong. His arrogance makes him looks like a player that doesn't enjoy tennis. (maybe he have a fake POP, I dont know)

 

[Adamska]

There is a reason why I put tezuka at 3. And If Tezuka wins by an aura stronger than POP. It will validate his top 3 ranking on germany.

Bismarck- I may consider him= tezuka but not better. Maybe they are equal. But I go towards tezuka because he is trained by volk. And Bismarck arrogance also affects his mental strength and focus.

Bertie/Scheidner- I doubt they will be as strong in singles. They are still elite but not as great as they are in doubles. So I will rank Tezuka above them in singles. I believe Tezuka will beat Scheidner easily especially his gigantamax will not be effective. Bertie would be tougher, but Tezuka can pull a win mid difficulty.

Siegfried- Really? The one who was affected by a single Duke Homerun, and just sit aside majority of the match. I doubt tezuka will be affected by Duke Homerun especially zone/phantom can counter it. I believe Tezuka may beat duke 1v1 depending on the circumstances.
It looks like Tezuka>Duke>Siegfried. So I dont think siegfried is in the level of tezuka.

I don't believe his arrogance would affect him, especially after the loss in pre-WC and D2( Bertie and Scheidner). The guy's been playing in Germany plus practicing alongside QP, Volk, Bertie, etc. While Tezuka was trained by Volk since national camp. we are yet to see what Bismarck is capable of.

I don't think this Tezuka have the strength to beat Bertie. He collects data like no other plus he became pro at very young age. and B&S underestimated Duke and Niou, if they'd gone all out from the very start, the winner would've been them,

Tezuka>Duke? really? We haven't really seen Duke play singles, and with Niou, it was Niou's spot to shine. Not to mention playing against two pros, one who is somewhat an otherworldly data collector, Scheidner with magnificent power that even Duke doesn't possess. Scheidner might be the most powerful german, if not, second most right behind the monster Volk. Duke was in France, then two years with Hoo and Japan, do not underestimate him.

This game would show us how much strength Tezuka has. Siegfried and Frankensteiner might play D1 since if i'm not mistaken, 3 MS must play in each game. Depends on Tezuka's game. If he wins, they'd send probably send MS, and S1 for Volk or Bismarck, if they lose D1.

The monster Volk seems to be unbeatable when looking at Japan's players. Tokugawa wasn't physically strong to stand against him, and the Monster Volk only hit one special shot, and he didn't break a sweat. Byodoin has gained an immense power since his game against Tokugawa, probably. so he might be the only Japanese having a chance against Volk.

 

[André Vinícius]

I doubt siegfried POP will be that strong. His arrogance makes him looks like a player that doesn't enjoy tennis. (maybe he have a fake POP, I dont know)

If I'm not wrong there are 3 ways to reach TnK and they should give the same type of boost since Kintaro/Ryoma TnK is diferent from Oni TnK and we don't really know wich is Tezuka and Siegfried, Tezuka is implied to be the same as Ryoma, but I'm sure we never saw a smiling on Tezuka face while on TnK, and Siegfried we saw a smile so who knows.

This game would show us how much strength Tezuka has. Siegfried and Frankensteiner might play D1 since if i'm not mistaken, 3 MS must play in each game. Depends on Tezuka's game. If he wins, they'd send probably send MS, and S1 for Volk or Bismarck, if they lose D1.

The monster Volk seems to be unbeatable when looking at Japan's players. Tokugawa wasn't physically strong to stand against him, and the Monster Volk only hit one special shot, and he didn't break a sweat. Byodoin has gained an immense power since his game against Tokugawa, probably. so he might be the only Japanese having a chance against Volk.

If I'm not mistaken Germany used only Tezuka and Frankensteiner agaisnt South Africa on round of 16 so I guess the 3 MSr rule doesn't aply anymore

About Volk the best solution for Konomi is doing the same thing he did with France, he understood that Duke doesn't stand a chance so he ended the match before they could play, now Konomi needs to understand that no one in Japan should be able to beat Volk and then make Japan win S2 and D1 so Volk doesn't get to play or just end this by making Japan lose. If Germany goes to the final we will probably see Tezuka getting thrashed by Ryoga and Volk by Medanore (because like I said in other post since we don't know the power of Spain they can go just match whoever wins between Japan and Germany)

 

[mathematicianrcg]

If I'm not wrong there are 3 ways to reach TnK and they should give the same type of boost since Kintaro/Ryoma TnK is diferent from Oni TnK and we don't really know wich is Tezuka and Siegfried, Tezuka is implied to be the same as Ryoma, but I'm sure we never saw a smiling on Tezuka face while on TnK, and Siegfried we saw a smile so who knows.



If I'm not mistaken Germany used only Tezuka and Frankensteiner agaisnt South Africa on round of 16 so I guess the 3 MSr rule doesn't aply anymore

About Volk the best solution for Konomi is doing the same thing he did with France, he understood that Duke doesn't stand a chance so he ended the match before they could play, now Konomi needs to understand that no one in Japan should be able to beat Volk and then make Japan win S2 and D1 so Volk doesn't get to play or just end this by making Japan lose. If Germany goes to the final we will probably see Tezuka getting thrashed by Ryoga and Volk by Medanore (because like I said in other post since we don't know the power of Spain they can go just match whoever wins between Japan and Germany)

There are several ways Konami can pull off. Just like Tezuka will win. Then Germany will go for the kill and Volk will play D1, so that volk partner can cause them the game.(This will be suck)

But I agree that Germany should win. Maybe 3-1. To show Germany Dominance.

I already said in my previous posts that I prefer a

Spain Vs Germany - Finals
Japan Vs USA- Battle for 3rd.

I still believe Japan is only on USA level. And so we can know USA players strength more.

The downside is we will not see spain players. Because Konami will surely not show the finals and will concentrate on usa vs japan.

Imagine a skip match in finals. and we will be shown reaction of audience:

S3: "What? QP lost, impossible"
S2: "I cant believe it, tezuka is destroyed 6-3,6-3". (And we will see Medanore and Ryoga smiling on the sideline, implying that they did not play yet).
Ok I went too far.

Back to topic. We do not know if Ryoga is 1st yr or 3rd yr. I believe he must be 1st year. So he can be the next captain of spain in next world cup.

Next World Cup Captains
Spain- Ryoga
Germany- Tezuka
Swiss - Tatsuta
Japan- Akatsu

--- Double Post Merged, May 9, 2020, Original Post Date: May 9, 2020 ---

Konami stated that he did not confirm that Japan will win the championship, or even confirm that japan will reach finals.

--- Double Post Merged, May 9, 2020 ---

Verbatm
Konami: "I absolutely didnt confirm that I want the japanese representatives to win the championship, or go to the finals"

If he will be true to his words, germany should win the match

 

[Echizen]

You cannot say that Japan will lose to Germany.. no matter the case, Japan gonna win the world cup.. Volk will play s1 and lose.. Byodoin, Tokugawa and Tanegashima is more than enough to beat Volk.. in final, we can see that Byodoin vs Medanore in s1 and Ryoma vs Ryoga in s3.. for sure Ryoga beat Raplh in other semi.. then for third place, Reinhart beat QP.. so all the key players will suffer lose in the end... there could be someone who are better..