One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[McNuss]

It's not that simple.

They cannot risk Doflamingo opening his mouth. We don't know what the secret is, but it's something very bad for the World Government. Maybe all nations would turn against it, and engulf the world into a war?

The Tenryuubito cannot risk it. It's better for them to leave Doflamingo alone.

And it's not Fujitora could do anything for the sake of Dressrosa. He knows the government solution in these cases is killing all citizens like they did in Ohara. The may even blame Fujitora and turn him into a criminal, as punishment for provoking Doflamingo.

Doflamingo can't open his mouth if an admiral is already at his throat.

And why would the government have exterminated Dressrosa? It's totally different from Ohara. Also they didn't even plan to kill the citizens of Ohara, that was Akainu acting on his own.

 

[Fox666]

Doflamingo can't open his mouth if an admiral is already at his throat.

Assuming Fujitora could do it.

But didn't Aokiji tried it already, and failed?

The question is not if they could defeated Doflamingo, but if they could catch a guy who can fly before he can open his mouth.

That's not saying that Doflamingo could have told some of his subordinates, to be used in case the World Government killed him.

And why would the government have exterminated Dressrosa? It's totally different from Ohara. Also they didn't even plan to kill the citizens of Ohara, that was Akainu acting on his own.

The Gorosei ordered the extermination of Ohara.

If the Gorosei suspected the National Treasure secret leaked in Dressrosa, the odds of they killing everyone there would be 100%.

 

[McNuss]

Assuming Fujitora could do it.

But didn't Aokiji tried it already, and failed?

The question is not if they could defeated Doflamingo, but if they could catch a guy who can fly before he can open his mouth.

That's not saying that Doflamingo could have told some of his subordinates, to be used in case the World Government killed him.

The Gorosei ordered the extermination of Ohara.

If the Gorosei suspected the National Treasure secret leaked in Dressrosa, the odds of they killing everyone there would be 100%.

The Buster Call on Ohara was an event prepared way in advance with Sengoku personally picking the Vice Admirals for it. They had prepared an escape ship for the citizens, which Sakazuki destroyed on his own to prevent any archeologists from escaping. That was not planned based on Kuzans reaction.

The Buster Call was clearly targeted at the island and the archeologists. There would be no reason to kill random people, it wouldn't even have mattered what these people believed, they are not dangerous. Skilled archeologists with a library full of knowledge, that is dangerous.

 

[Fox666]

The Buster Call on Ohara was an event prepared way in advance with Sengoku personally picking the Vice Admirals for it. They had prepared an escape ship for the citizens, which Sakazuki destroyed on his own to prevent any archeologists from escaping. That was not planned based on Kuzans reaction.

The Buster Call was clearly targeted at the island and the archeologists. There would be no reason to kill random people, it wouldn't even have mattered what these people believed, they are not dangerous. Skilled archeologists with a library full of knowledge, that is dangerous.

It seems a single person who knows about the National Treasure is worse than all archeologists in Ohara combined. :/

 

[nik87]

Yes and he displayed that strength by bringing down Kaido in dragon form and pummelling his indestructible ass.
On the contrary, they do have the strength to fight the strongest but they'll be defeated either way.
Point is Fujitora confirmed Luffy had the strength to fightback Admirals and not run away like he used to Pre TS.
He has the Haki to defend himself, he has the power to pummel them but he's not beating/defeating any in that category at that point in the story (Dressrosa).

I'll translate it and make it easy for you - Fujitora statement is a lie, Luffy doesnt have the strength to fight Yonko/Admirals.
Manga statements shouldnt be taken literally, HP did and thought Luffy would take out BM in WCI. You know how that ended.

 

[Fox666]

I'll translate it and make it easy for you - Fujitora statement is a lie, Luffy doesnt have the strength to fight Yonko/Admirals.
Manga statements shouldnt be taken literally, HP did and thought Luffy would take out BM in WCI. You know how that ended.

I think Big Mom case is different. It's something that Luffy said he would do, but the series is full of plot twists.

And honestly, considering how much was revealed of the Big Mom Pirates, yet most of them did nothing, I think it was predictable they would play a big part in the near future.

 

[Mwhitt]

Do yourself a favor and block him or put him on ignore. You're just encouraging him by responding.

How was Luffy strong enough to fight a Yonkou when Kaidou barely felt anything and was just taken by surprise?

I'll ignore him more times than I'll respond he is the embodiment of comedy I'll respond when I want a good laugh.

Luffy is strong enough to fight a yonko, he has all the tools and fire power. What he doesn't have is complete mastery and I would say even knowledge of his entire arsenal and he needs that to "beat" one. He subconsciously used haki to destroy the collar on Hyo from the inside out. I'm not of the belief his subconscious "learned" it at that moment he had it in him all along and didn't realize it. Once Hyo saw him use it he helped him be able to consciously use it at will.

Now it "seems" like this is a weapon Luffy believes will help him damage Kaido. I mean me personally I'm skeptical of just that putting him in a position to beat Kaido we will have to see. Its similar to how he used conquerors haki pre time skip subconsciously. He had it in him the entire time and has even subconsciously used it but didn't have it mastered. Get me? He's not learning anything new per se he is mastering the power he already possess.

 

[nik87]

I think Big Mom case is different. It's something that Luffy said he would do, but the series is full of plot twists.
And honestly, considering how much was revealed of the Big Mom Pirates, yet most of them did nothing, I think it was predictable they would play a big part in the near future.

It was pretty evident that Luffy was nowhere close to having the strength to fight top tiers.
Sanji said he'd reduce enemy numbers. Should we believe that manga fact despite knowing it is a lie?
Manga statements shouldnt be taken literally, questioning them is a healthy approach.
If they are true it will be backed up by facts, if not a club can come flying out of nowhere...

Unless Zoro shows something specifically mentioned as result of "getting used to Enma", nothing will support that he got stronger despite his statement.
Also, maybe it is only there so it is easier for people to swallow the fact that Zoro is that strong but that would be even funnier if people start thinking that preventing haki from being taken away improved Zoro anywhere close to a whole tier and for those who have him under Commanders would have to justify a jump of like 4 tiers due to Enma, lol. Assuming he doesnt pull anything new that isnt result of TS training.

 

[Fox666]

But there's no reason to question Zoro statement that he would get stronger. He said he would in that time, that time has already passed and nothing happened that would prevent it.

IMHO I do think the series provided Luffy, Zoro and Sanji with power-ups for Wano arc.

 

[nik87]

IMHO I do think the series provided Luffy, Zoro and Sanji with power-ups for Wano arc.

It is obvious what power-ups do for Luffy and Sanji, you can point a finger and tell it obviously.
What does the "power-up" do for Zoro?

 

[Fox666]

It's based on Zoro own words. Why question it?

Unless Zoro says in the next chapters "I said I would train to get stronger last week, but that didn't happened. Kaido cast a spell that prevents swordman from training in this country!" his own assessment about his strength should hold true.

 

[nik87]

It's based on Zoro own words. Why question it?

Why question Fujitora's words or Sanji's?

Unless Zoro says in the next chapters "I said I would train to get stronger last week, but that didn't happened.

Fujitora and Sanji didnt say that their statements were incorrect either.

his own assessment about his strength should hold true.

Only true if some manga facts back it up. Unless nothing happens, no reason to believe it.
And on the other hand, if he did get stronger, it would be foolish to think it significantly changed his power level that it even matters, unless proven wrong.

 

[Fox666]

it would be foolish to think it significantly changed his power level that it even matters

It's a manga, characters get stronger as the plot demands

For example, when did Zoro got so strong to fight Daz Bones? He looks way stronger than Arlong, or anyone in East Blue.

 

[nik87]

It's a manga, characters get stronger as the plot demands

For example, when did Zoro got so strong to fight Daz Bones? He looks way stronger than Arlong, or anyone in East Blue.

Zoro never hit his limits in NW, not even close. He was as strong as he is now back on FI.

Zoro's first limit was Daz, he didnt grow until then.

 

[M3J]

I'll ignore him more times than I'll respond he is the embodiment of comedy I'll respond when I want a good laugh.

Luffy is strong enough to fight a yonko, he has all the tools and fire power. What he doesn't have is complete mastery and I would say even knowledge of his entire arsenal and he needs that to "beat" one. He subconsciously used haki to destroy the collar on Hyo from the inside out. I'm not of the belief his subconscious "learned" it at that moment he had it in him all along and didn't realize it. Once Hyo saw him use it he helped him be able to consciously use it at will.

Now it "seems" like this is a weapon Luffy believes will help him damage Kaido. I mean me personally I'm skeptical of just that putting him in a position to beat Kaido we will have to see. Its similar to how he used conquerors haki pre time skip subconsciously. He had it in him the entire time and has even subconsciously used it but didn't have it mastered. Get me? He's not learning anything new per se he is mastering the power he already possess.

--- Double Post Merged, May 11, 2020, Original Post Date: May 11, 2020 ---

King moe is my personal favorite, Nik is #2. They are forum teasures that must be protected at all cost lol

Prior to learning the new CoA, LUffy was not strong enough to even hurt a Yonkou. Kaidou and Big Mom are extremely durable, and Kaidou's strong enough to one-shot Luffy. I'm not sure if this power will help him beat Kaidou, but it'll be a super difficult fight nonetheless.

 

[Aki1991]

Was thinking about this yesterday since I am reading the complete manga again from the beginning. I am currently at volume 32.

I think he was pretty overpowered back then and it made no sense for Luffy to beat him, but it was possible thanks to plot armor. Same like with Crocodile. Both nice fights though.

However, is it possible that Enel had an awakened fruit and the strongest observation Haki we have seen so far? I mean in combination with Ark Maxim he was on Whitebeard destruction level imo. He could destroy whole islands with these black clouds.

Do you think Enel will come back after 2 years training in the moon? He has potential to be Admiral or Yonko level with the right Haki training and with Ark Maxim powers.

What is your opinion?

--- Double Post Merged, May 11, 2020, Original Post Date: May 11, 2020 ---

Zoro never hit his limits in NW, not even close. He was as strong as he is now back on FI.

Zoro's first limit was Daz, he didnt grow until then.

What about losing to Enel and Kuma?

--- Double Post Merged, May 11, 2020 ---

How strong was Mount Blanc Noland? Do you think he was on Admiral level?

 

[nik87]

What about losing to Enel and Kuma?

Not sure what you want to say with Enel and Kuma. Both are after Daz.
My post says about Zoro not hitting his limits in NW.

 

[Aki1991]

Not sure what you want to say with Enel and Kuma. Both are after Daz.
My post says about Zoro not hitting his limits in NW.

He was not able to beat Dofi imo. See he hit his limit there. But agree, we are missing all out fight for Zoro and also for the other SH. Only Luffy went all out so far in NW.

 

[nik87]

He was not able to beat Dofi imo. See he hit his limit there. But agree, we are missing all out fight for Zoro and also for the other SH. Only Luffy went all out so far in NW.

Kuma and Enel are pre-TS, my post about limit is post-TS and we have yet to see where his limits are. Most likely above King who is YC1 while Doffy is YC3...
Also, he didnt hit his limits again Enel as he didnt even fight him. Nobody was able to fight Enel back then without neutralizing his DF. Luffy would have fallen the same if he had no natural counter for Enel's DF. No limits there, just a mismatch. He never took on Kuma in the fresh state but unlikely to beat him anyway.

 

[HereNThere]

How strong was Mount Blanc Noland? Do you think he was on Admiral level?

The level of a Veteran New World Captain at the least. He could easily kill a Sea King bare handed and survived basically being crushed by a fissure in the earth, even managing to push them apart briefly.

Not enough real feats to guess his upper limit though.