One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Takuan]

This is just going too far at this point, seriously what am i reading

 

[Mwhitt]

You realize it is Oda himself who never paired Luffy with a swordsman and the one time he did, he was eating biscuits?
Plot babysitted Luffy because Lucci was barehanded, you dont need 4k Dorikki to mincemeat Luffy.
At the same time, plot babysits Luffy's opponents by keeping them away from Zoro because they wouldnt look as mighty against a real beast.

Of course cause baby sitting is having Luffy face logia, 2 weapon wielding yonko commanders one who can see the future, and a yonko. While Zoro only faces swordsmen...................oh and Monet. Yes Luffy is the one being baby sat.

--- Double Post Merged, May 14, 2020, Original Post Date: May 14, 2020 ---

This is just going too far at this point, seriously what am i reading

Nonsense is what I believe its called lol

 

[Aliocha]

I would say Luffy defeats them with equal or easier difficulty than Zoro. Not greater difficulty.

Besides Mr.. 1 Zoro has yet to face an opponent that Luffy couldn't deal with at equal difficulty or easier where as Luffy has faced people Zoro would have no chance against (Crocodile, Enel, Lucci, Moriah) just talking PTS.

Luffy would have far greater difficulty against Mr 1 than Zoro did, but not due to not being a swordsman but due to Mr. 1's steel body...

There has always been a large gap between the fighters Luffy and Zoro have faced and often Zoro only faces a 1 trick pony and once the trick is exploited the opponent is easily beaten. Zoro has never faced a truly versatile opponent and with good reason, he'd lose or at the very least not look nearly impressive as he is now. Imagine Zoro up against the likes of Crocodile who is CQC, Long Range Fighter, Loria, and in the middle of a desert. Imagine him up against Doflamingo who would play him like he played Sanji. Versatile opponents aren't a good match up for Zoro. The one true time it happened vs Pika, Pika ended up being a cpward and playing hide and seek and even ten to finish it Zoro needed the momentum on being thrown combo's with his strongest attack (or one of) to catch him.

I bet you his fight in Wano is going to be more of the same.... a opponent thats straightforward that all he needs to do is outmuscle. The problem is he is in a world of highly versatile fighters, none of which he has come across conveniently enough.

Every one Zoro has fought IS basically fodder once their trick is exploited.

If it was only about strength, I'd probably rank him closer to Jinbe than I do now, or even over Jinbe... but it's not all about strength in this manga.

I agreed 100% with you

And lol, conveniently talk about Zoro's opponents that Luffy could not defeat (which I disagree). But what about the opposite?

Lucci would have killed the entire crew in 1v1

 

[nik87]

Of course cause baby sitting is having Luffy face logia, 2 weapon wielding yonko commanders one who can see the future, and a yonko. While Zoro only faces swordsmen...................oh and Monet. Yes Luffy is the one being baby sat.

What use is being a logia if plot armor nullifies all your work... What use is being a logia if MC is natural counter for that logia?
You mean that weapon wielding commander who was applauding his enemy for 11 hours? Or the YC who dropped his weapon bcs MC had no answer for it?
The Yonko who instead of using her sword uses her elbow? The Yonko who one-shot the MC and failed to leave even a scar, god forbid something worse?

Zoro on the other hand faces "only" swordsmen. Let's see how powerful swordsmen can be: Rocks, Roger, Rayleigh, Shanks, Big Mom, Fujitora and Mihawk.
Seems like being "only" a swordsman didnt stop any of those powerhouses from being a top tier. Lame excuse for not realizing that those "only" swordsmen would have rekt Luffy, that's why Zoro is the one taking them on.

Lucci would have killed the entire crew in 1v1

With Asura, Zoro would have clapped Lucci in a blink of an eye.

 

[Aliocha]

With Asura, Zoro would have clapped Lucci in a blink of an eye.

No

With Shigan, Lucci would have clapped Zoro in a blink of an eye.

 

[nik87]

No
With Shigan, Lucci would have clapped Zoro in a blink of an eye.

Afaik, factually Zoro took on several Shigans back in W7 and wasnt clapped but Luffy was.

 

[Mwhitt]

What use is being a logia if plot armor nullifies all your work... What use is being a logia if MC is natural counter for that logia?
You mean that weapon wielding commander who was applauding his enemy for 11 hours? Or the YC who dropped his weapon bcs MC had no answer for it?
The Yonko who instead of using her sword uses her elbow? The Yonko who one-shot the MC and failed to leave even a scar, god forbid something worse?

Zoro on the other hand faces "only" swordsmen. Let's see how powerful swordsmen can be: Rocks, Roger, Rayleigh, Shanks, Big Mom, Fujitora and Mihawk.
Seems like being "only" a swordsman didnt stop any of those powerhouses from being a top tier. Lame excuse for not realizing that those "only" swordsmen would have rekt Luffy, that's why Zoro is the one taking them on.

How powerful swordsmen can be is irrelevant. You said plot has been babysitting Luffy and not Zoro when its literally the exact opposite. Luffy has fought a variety of opponents being forced to think outside the box, adapt and overcome disadvantages of having to fight outside of his comfort zone. A swordsman who only fights swordsman is the definition of being baby sat.

 

[Aliocha]

Afaik, factually Zoro took on several Shigans back in W7 and wasnt clapped but Luffy was.

a few seconds later:

great kick

 

[nik87]

How powerful swordsmen can be is irrelevant. You said plot has been babysitting Luffy and not Zoro when its literally the exact opposite. Luffy has fought a variety of opponents being forced to think outside the box, adapt and overcome disadvantages of having to fight outside of his comfort zone. A swordsman who only fights swordsman is the definition of being baby sat.

It is very relevant because it points out that your try of belittling swordsmen has failed from the get go.
He can think outside of box all he wants, he had no answer for swordmen and that's why plot never puts him against one. Not in the past, not in the future.
Zoro will be one of the strongest individuals in OP world, if not the strongest, just by fighting swordsmen.
No babysitting, just too dangerous for non-weapon users. Barehanded combatants are low diff fights for Zoro, they can give Luffy a good fight tho.

a few seconds later:

great kick

How is that relevant to your Shigan from previous reply?

 

[Pirate Queen]

a few seconds later:

great kick

And Zoro took a shigan from a significantly weaker member of CP9 and was wrecked almost instantly without putting up any fight a page later.

--- Double Post Merged, May 14, 2020, Original Post Date: May 14, 2020 ---

How powerful swordsmen can be is irrelevant. You said plot has been babysitting Luffy and not Zoro when its literally the exact opposite. Luffy has fought a variety of opponents being forced to think outside the box, adapt and overcome disadvantages of having to fight outside of his comfort zone. A swordsman who only fights swordsman is the definition of being baby sat.

He will ignore and make excuses for every instance that Luffy goes up against a dwordsmen because it defeats his entire arguement that Luffy needs Zoro when that has never been the case lol.

Which is why he can't accept that Luffy defeated cracker who is a better swordsmen than Zoro has ever defeated.

 

[Aliocha]

How is that relevant to your Shigan from previous reply?

I dont know man

You mentioned Zoro taking Kaku's Shigan and posted a much stronger guy hitting Luffy

And Zoro took a shigan from a significantly weaker member of CP9 and was wrecked almost instantly without putting up any fight a page later.

--- Double Post Merged, May 14, 2020, Original Post Date: May 14, 2020 ---

Exactly

 

[Mwhitt]

It is very relevant because it points out that your try of belittling swordsmen has failed from the get go.
He can think outside of box all he wants, he had no answer for swordmen and that's why plot never puts him against one. Not in the past, not in the future.
Zoro will be one of the strongest individuals in OP world, if not the strongest, just by fighting swordsmen.
No babysitting, just too dangerous for non-weapon users. Barehanded combatants are low diff fights for Zoro, they can give Luffy a good fight tho.

How am I belittling swordsmen? Why do you believe simply possessing a sword is a feat of power? YOU pointed out Luffy is baby sat and Zoro is not when its a fact Luffy has been taken out of his comfort zone and been victorious multiple times where Zoro has only been written to fight people who fight like himself which directly contradicts your statement.

Cracker is a stronger swordsman than anyone Zoro has every faced in his life and that goes for double in the NW as Zoro's opponents have been essentially fodder. You attempting to demean the nature of Cracker's df doesn't disprove that it only makes your logic even more comical and clearly conveys your desperation cause you can't come up with a counter argument.

Having a sword does not make you top tier ask Hyouzou, Monet and Pica. Listing powerful accomplished pirates that have swords IS irrelevant as none of them have ANYTHING to do with Zoro's recent opponents. Cracker was an 800k bounty threat who is a top 3 commander in a yonko crew. He had good haki and was a swordsman that Luffy has defeated. Zoro has not faced anyone of that level EVER and has never faced any one that level who directly contrasts his fighting style. Luffy has end of convo

 

[thedude]

This is just going too far at this point, seriously what am i reading

You have to understand, Nik reads a different manga than the rest of us. Once you understand that it all makes more sense. It becomes "Oda is babysitting Luffy" instead of "Oda is creating fighters specifically for each strawhat to fight to show their growth in the story...and Luffy's is always the strongest".

In Nik's world, Oda creates these characters and panics when he realizes the #2 is stronger than the number 1, so he rejiggers everything to have Luffy face the real second strongest, then when the issue goes to the presses, he breathes a sigh of relief at once more avoiding killing off Luffy.

 

[nik87]

I dont know man
You mentioned Zoro taking Kaku's Shigan and posted a much stronger guy hitting Luffy

Shigan is a Shigan, once it pierces you it did the same damage no matter who performed it.
Zoro took more Shigans from Kaku, Lucci's Shigan had wider diameter, Zoro wasnt clapped, Luffy was.
Back to my original post - Zoro with Asura claps Lucci instantly.

How am I belittling swordsmen? Why do you believe simply possessing a sword is a feat of power? YOU pointed out Luffy is baby sat and Zoro is not when its a fact Luffy has been taken out of his comfort zone and been victorious multiple times where Zoro has only been written to fight people who fight like himself which directly contradicts your statement.

Cracker is a stronger swordsman than anyone Zoro has every faced in his life and that goes for double in the NW as Zoro's opponents have been essentially fodder. You attempting to demean the nature of Cracker's df doesn't disprove that it only makes your logic even more comical and clearly conveys your desperation cause you can't come up with a counter argument.

Having a sword does not make you top tier ask Hyouzou, Monet and Pica. Listing powerful accomplished pirates that have swords IS irrelevant as none of them have ANYTHING to do with Zoro's recent opponents. Cracker was an 800k bounty threat who is a top 3 commander in a yonko crew. He had good haki and was a swordsman that Luffy has defeated. Zoro has not faced anyone of that level EVER and has never faced any one that level who directly contrasts his fighting style. Luffy has end of convo

Zoro fights only swordsmen, that's how. You make it seem like fighting swordsmen is easy, especially for Luffy, lol.
Zoro only fights swordsmen because combatants without weapons cannot last a minute against him, not because he cant take them on.
Luffy is babysat, if you didnt realize that by now, nothing can help you.

Cracker is not stronger swordsman than anyone Zoro has ever faced in his life. Zoro faced Mihawk in chapter 50, a stronger character than anyone Luffy has faced in 800+ chapters. He also faces Mihawk during TS, he faced Kuma in TB, he faced Kizaru in SA, he faced Fujitora in DR, he faced Aokiji in LRLI.
Cracker is a toy which wouldnt last one minute against Zoro but such a perfect counter for Luffy's abilities that he had no answer for him.

Using Cracker as an example that Luffy can take on swordsmen only reinforces my argument if you didnt realize as he was clapping his hands for eleven hours and still, Luffy couldnt do shit, even with Nami's help and had to rely on plot armor to make Cracker jump into Luffy's stomach to make himself into a bullet. But dont mind me, please conticue to use Cracker as argument that Luffy can handle swordsmen.

Zoro is above the mere Yonko commanders since the TS ended so good luck with 860mil worth momma's boy who dislikes pain. He had haki better than Luffy's, which is not equal to having good haki since hakiless Fodder Jones has broken through Luffy's Haki. Unfortunately for you, Zoro has faced plenty of individual who clap Cracker with their eyes closed. You will need a lot better arguments if you want to end the convo.

Oda is creating fighters specifically for each strawhat to fight to show their growth in the story.

Oda creates different types of fighters and avoids swordsmen for Luffy because he cant grow against them and can only die... The truth is hard to admit.

 

[thedude]

Oda creates different types of fighters and avoids swordsmen for Luffy because he cant grow against them and can only die... The truth is hard to admit.

...and yet Luffy just beat Cracker, a swordsman...

Also, to your point about Ashura vs Lucci, given how much trouble he had with a guy half Lucci's strength, Zoro would get ruined before he even had a chance to use the move.

 

[nik87]

...and yet Luffy just beat Cracker, a swordsman...
Also, to your point about Ashura vs Lucci, given how much trouble he had with a guy half Lucci's strength, Zoro would get ruined before he even had a chance to use the move.

Thank you for reinforcing my argument with Cracker.
He had trouble against a guy who had 4 attack sources while Zoro defends with 3 most 2. Lucci doesnt use Yontoryu style to overwhelm Zoro.
Asura Zoro claps Lucci easily lol, they only look tough against Luffy who has no means of clapping them in one hit like Zoro.

 

[Aliocha]

Shigan is a Shigan, once it pierces you it did the same damage no matter who performed it.
Zoro took more Shigans from Kaku, Lucci's Shigan had wider diameter, Zoro wasnt clapped, Luffy was.
Back to my original post - Zoro with Asura claps Lucci instantly.

Lucci's Shigan was clearly stronger once he passed through Luffy, while Kaku only hit Zoro superficially

But ok, I will use your same logic: Rankyaku is Rankyaku, since you cut no matter who used it, right?

Luffy tanked Kaku + Khalifa's Rankyaku in W7, and stopped Lucci's Rankyaku with his gomo gomo stamp.

So, he would just tank Kaku's Amenadachi, right? For Ryankyaku is Ryankyaku, no matter who wears it as long as he cuts.

Ok, this is the end

 

[Pirate Queen]

...and yet Luffy just beat Cracker, a swordsman...

And you hit back with the perfect come back lol

The truth is hard to admit when you base your entire arguement on Swordsmen > Everyone else when there are so many examples saying other wise

 

[nik87]

Lucci's Shigan was clearly stronger once he passed through Luffy, while Kaku only hit Zoro superficially
But ok, I will use your same logic: Rankyaku is Rankyaku, since you cut no matter who used it, right?
Luffy tanked Kaku + Khalifa's Rankyaku in W7, and stopped Lucci's Rankyaku with his gomo gomo stamp.
So, he would just tank Kaku's Amenadachi, right? For Ryankyaku is Ryankyaku, no matter who wears it as long as he cuts.
Ok, this is the end

The only difference between Lucci's and Kaku's Shigan was that his finger in hybrid form was longer and has gone through Luffy while Kaku's shorter finger wasnt long enough to go out on the other side through Zoro. While piercing through is more damage than not going all the way through, Zoro took 3 Shigans.
Rankyaku, like all other cutting damage, is nerfed so yes, no matter whose Rankyaku you pick the result is the same. Sanji took it on without any serious damage while it has split huge towers and steel warships. If he took Mihawk's slash without any serious damage what's Amenadachi compared to that?

 

[Mwhitt]

Shigan is a Shigan, once it pierces you it did the same damage no matter who performed it.
Zoro took more Shigans from Kaku, Lucci's Shigan had wider diameter, Zoro wasnt clapped, Luffy was.
Back to my original post - Zoro with Asura claps Lucci instantly.


Zoro fights only swordsmen, that's how. You make it seem like fighting swordsmen is easy, especially for Luffy, lol.
Zoro only fights swordsmen because combatants without weapons cannot last a minute against him, not because he cant take them on.
Luffy is babysat, if you didnt realize that by now, nothing can help you.

Cracker is not stronger swordsman than anyone Zoro has ever faced in his life. Zoro faced Mihawk in chapter 50, a stronger character than anyone Luffy has faced in 800+ chapters. He also faces Mihawk during TS, he faced Kuma in TB, he faced Kizaru in SA, he faced Fujitora in DR, he faced Aokiji in LRLI.
Cracker is a toy which wouldnt last one minute against Zoro but such a perfect counter for Luffy's abilities that he had no answer for him.

Using Cracker as an example that Luffy can take on swordsmen only reinforces my argument if you didnt realize as he was clapping his hands for eleven hours and still, Luffy couldnt do shit, even with Nami's help and had to rely on plot armor to make Cracker jump into Luffy's stomach to make himself into a bullet. But dont mind me, please conticue to use Cracker as argument that Luffy can handle swordsmen.

Zoro is above the mere Yonko commanders since the TS ended so good luck with 860mil worth momma's boy who dislikes pain. He had haki better than Luffy's, which is not equal to having good haki since hakiless Fodder Jones has broken through Luffy's Haki. Unfortunately for you, Zoro has faced plenty of individual who clap Cracker with their eyes closed. You will need a lot better arguments if you want to end the convo.


Oda creates different types of fighters and avoids swordsmen for Luffy because he cant grow against them and can only die... The truth is hard to admit.

Wtf do you consider a fight?

Luffy had a FIGHT with Cracker. Zoro and Mihawk wasn't a fight that was akin to a father disciplining his son. I had no idea Zoro fought Kizaru could you show me the link to where Zoro fought him? Didn't know someone could fight while face down in the dirt. Zoro did not fight Aokiji, Luffy, Zoro and Sanji attempted to attack him and were each swatted. I'm not doing this all the people you tried to say Zoro "fought" thats stronger than Cracker clapped Zoro with no damage taken. Let's correct faced since you use the term so loosely, lets use defeated. The NW list is right back down to Hyouzou, Monet, Pica who are jokes when compared to Cracker. You can bring up irrelevant points, you can try to demean Cracker's df, whatever it doesn't matter Cracker is miles stronger than anyone Zoro has defeated.

Was Cracker's swordsmanship the issue or was Luffy figuring out how to fight his df? Thats what happens when you fight someone skilled in more areas than just swinging a sword.

Congrats you took me out of my original point the debate of Zoro being more baby sat than Luffy. You admit Luffy fight different opponents but he is kept away from swordsmen because he can't fight them only Zoro can. But Luffy beats Cracker who is a stronger swordsman than all of Zoro's opponents he has defeated so you are wrong . Luffy has defeated all types of fighters with a variety of skills and powers including a df wielding yonko commander swordsman stronger than anyone Zoro has defeated ever while Zoro only fights people that fight like him who are always notably weaker than Luffy's opponents. Always fighting in your comfort zone literally all the time is being baby sat. Luffy has proven to be able to fight top opponents that contrast his fighting style Zoro has not.