Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2020] - Discussion and ToC Talk

[Shinuki no Reborn]

MANGAHELPERS "TOC" POLL ISSUE #51 - VOTING!​

The poll for issue #51 is now open, vote for your favorite chapters of the week clicking HERE!

Alongside the release of Sakamoto Days, the extra series this week are:

-Dragon Ball Super 66
-Boruto: Naruto Next Generations 52
-Ghost Reaper Girl 10

Good Votes!

 

[Halloween]

Moderator Notice:
Henceforth, I will be deleting posts that complain about Weekly Shonen Jump having too many/not enough gag/battle/exorcism/sports/etc series.

These posts are not insightful, and do not meaningfully contribute to this thread. Also, this decision is not up for discussion, so posts discussing this decision will also be deleted.~ Halloween

 

[Ryuusei]

Spoiler: 52 TOC & 01 Preview

呪 僕 O マ ブ S C D 破 C B 夜 C 僕 あ 灼 ぼ チ 高 ア 森 A 仄 ぼ 次号カラー ヒロアカ アンデラ 夜桜 約ネバ 道産子 GIGA 岸本先生が描くコラボポスター 爆豪クリアファイル

Spoiler: Issue #52 ToC & Preview

Jujutsu Kaisen (Cover & LCP)
My Hero Academia
One Piece
Mashle
Black Clover
Sakamoto Days (CP)
Dr. Stone
Magu-chan: God of Destruction (CP)
Build King
Mission: Yozakura Family
Me & Roboco
Ayakashi Triangle (CP)
Shakunetsu no Niraikanai
We Never Learn
Chainsaw Man
Koukousei Kazoku
Undead Unluck
Moriking
Agravity Boys
Honomieru Shounen
Bokura no Ketsumei

Issue #1
Cover & LCP: My Hero Academia
CP: Undead Unluck, Mission: Yozakura Family, The Promised Neverland, Dosanko Gyaru wa Namaramenkoi

GIGA Preview
Collab poster by Kishimoto
Bakugou clear file

 

[savethecat]

Hmm the mc wasn’t given permission though, the true creator just didn’t believe microwave storyline. If she stuck around to help him write then he ghostwriting would apply.

At the moment the mc is an opportunist and technically plagiarising. I just hope the mc over the course of the story comes into his own as a artist/creative.

Don’t think you understanding.

Yes, Toppei definitely IS plagiarizing

Future Itsuki Aino, is his Ghostwriter. Even if unknowingly, she’s writing the series for someone else without getting credit

 

[101nemesis]

I'm talking about team paradox, you forget a detail.

Who sent the manga to Sasaki? Didn't Aino of the future send the manga so he could publish it in the present?
If so, then it is not plagiarism.

Yeah possibly. There could be a twist that one of her competitors from the future is sending it in the hopes that their present (or the MC's future) changes.
The series is interesting because of all these possibilities. I just hope the mangaka keeps delivering.

 

[Stivie]

Don’t think you understanding.

Yes, Toppei definitely IS plagiarizing

Future Itsuki Aino, is his Ghostwriter. Even if unknowingly, she’s writing the series for someone else without getting credit

If Aino of the future itself is sending the story to him, then it is not plagiarism.

 

[tirakai]

Whether future Aino did it on purpose or not, MC still took the series and claimed it is his own work. He doesn't know the future author's intentions, so from his point of view (and hence ours) he plagiarised it. It's really silly to even deny it since the plagiarism is the main conflict in the series so far with the main character feeling awful about doing it once he realised.

I'm certainly curious how it'll rank in a few weeks, it's well made enough that I can see it possibly doing well but I can definitely picture it failing too as well if most readers can't get past the ideas of the premise.

 

[AbrahamOmosun]

At least we can all agree that Time Paradox Ghostwriter sounds a lot better than Time Paradox Plagarist

 

[MrDropCombo]

Disclaimer - I’m not rushing the story just alluding to the fact as it stands the mc plagiarised.

I’m very much aware that this will change over the course of the series.

Don’t think you understanding.

Yes, Toppei definitely IS plagiarizing

Future Itsuki Aino, is his Ghostwriter. Even if unknowingly, she’s writing the series for someone else without getting credit

Unless future Aino was the one sending the Toppei the manga, it’s still plagiarising, you can’t unknowingly be a ghostwriter.

 

[tirakai]

How about, as a bit aside from the topic, we make early guesses for 1st chapter placements of Moriking, Bone Collection, and Ghost Writer?
We do polls right before the ToC leaks, but that's affected by people reading 7 chapters and being more used to it.

Moriking - just above the bottom 5 - it's pretty much just Spring Weapon again but insects which I think was 5th last first ranking, but I think the characters are established a little better in Moriking's first chapter
Bone Collection - edge of the bottom 5 - I think the main girl is cute enough to maybe keep it out of the bottom (or just barely in it as 5th last) for the first chapter, but the other aspects are too weak for it to do well
Ghost Writer - either top 5 or bottom 3 - series is certainly distinct enough to gather a lot of attention and be an instant hit, but the controversial premise could also result in it being widely hated

although that's if we don't get a big new batch by then, if there's only 11 or 12 ranked like this week things will be harder to place (just look at this issue, where Mashle is in the bottom 5 but also 2 spots away from top 5 due to the low number or ranked series).

 

[101nemesis]

I've actually not read Moriking. So I'm unsure of it's quality.
Having read 2 chapters of Bone Collection, I actually think some of the japanese might like it. But what do I know.

I'm hoping Paradox gets a decent mid toc ranking. But it's still too early to tell given how we are just 3 chapters in. The quality could drop exponentially within the next few chapters for all we know and WSJ would have no motivation to put it high in the TOC, at that point.

 

[OtterBrigade]

Ghostwriting and Plagiarism aren't mutually exclusive. If I pay someone to write my term paper for me I'd obviously have their permission and most people here would probably agree that falls into the ghost writing category but if I get caught the university's plagiarism policy is what kicks in. Even if Aino is sending the series back herself it's still plagiarism.

Moriking - just above the bottom 5 - it's pretty much just Spring Weapon again but insects which I think was 5th last first ranking, but I think the characters are established a little better in Moriking's first chapter
Bone Collection - edge of the bottom 5 - I think the main girl is cute enough to maybe keep it out of the bottom (or just barely in it as 5th last) for the first chapter, but the other aspects are too weak for it to do well
Ghost Writer - either top 5 or bottom 3 - series is certainly distinct enough to gather a lot of attention and be an instant hit, but the controversial premise could also result in it being widely hated

I pretty much agree with your ratings but I think Moriking will actually be in bottom 5 (maybe even bottom 3). I never bothered with it or Spring Weapon but if they are so close I don't see why insects would be more successful than robots.

 

[Stivie]

How about, as a bit aside from the topic, we make early guesses for 1st chapter placements of Moriking, Bone Collection, and Ghost Writer?
We do polls right before the ToC leaks, but that's affected by people reading 7 chapters and being more used to it.

Moriking - just above the bottom 5 - it's pretty much just Spring Weapon again but insects which I think was 5th last first ranking, but I think the characters are established a little better in Moriking's first chapter
Bone Collection - edge of the bottom 5 - I think the main girl is cute enough to maybe keep it out of the bottom (or just barely in it as 5th last) for the first chapter, but the other aspects are too weak for it to do well
Ghost Writer - either top 5 or bottom 3 - series is certainly distinct enough to gather a lot of attention and be an instant hit, but the controversial premise could also result in it being widely hated

although that's if we don't get a big new batch by then, if there's only 11 or 12 ranked like this week things will be harder to place (just look at this issue, where Mashle is in the bottom 5 but also 2 spots away from top 5 due to the low number or ranked series).

Dude, we're discussing the author of time paradox runs the risk of having the manga canceled because of the theme, even with the story and the characters being well presented so far.
And the author is not showing plagiarism as a good thing, it is bad, and the author himself is telling it.
We are literally forbidden the guy to tell his story, the name of this is censorship and you can't understand the Japanese for such a reason.

 

[Serinox]

Ghostwriting and Plagiarism aren't mutually exclusive. If I pay someone to write my term paper for me I'd obviously have their permission and most people here would probably agree that falls into the ghost writing category but if I get caught the university's plagiarism policy is what kicks in.

Technically, that university policy covers both ghostwriting and plagiarism seperately. In the "Declaration of Independend Work" for each paper, you declare that you 1. have written the paper yourself (covering ghostwriting) and 2. that you have given all cited sources and quoted correctly and appropriately (covering plagiarism).

And yes, a ghostwriter can of course plagiarize. But it is not something inherent to ghostwriting itself.

 

[Stivie]

In mangaplus TPGW it is in 15th position.

Sorry I don't know how to print.

MANGA Plus by SHUEISHA

mangaplus.shueisha.co.jp

 

[101nemesis]

In mangaplus TPGW it is in 15th position.

Sorry I don't know how to print.

MANGA Plus by SHUEISHA

mangaplus.shueisha.co.jp

It's irrelevant. S8 was also higher up because fans kept viewing it. Didn't really save it.
Japanese reception is what matters, at this point. Lets wait and see for few chapters and see how WSJ places it.

 

[RafGL]

Okay, so We Never Learn Volume 17 pretty much confirms what I already posted.

Each volume will be focused in 1 route, so volume per girl, ending with Volume 21 as long as there's no more content after last route.

Uruka: 142-150 Volume 17
Rizu: 151-159 Volume 18
Fumino: 160-168 Volume 19
Senpai: 169-177 Volume 20
Sensei: 178-186 Volume 21

 

[Stivie]

Okay, so We Never Learn Volume 17 pretty much confirms what I already posted.

Each volume will be focused in 1 route, so volume per girl, ending with Volume 21 as long as there's no more content after last route.

Uruka: 142-150 Volume 17
Rizu: 151-159 Volume 18
Fumino: 160-168 Volume 19
Senpai: 169-177 Volume 20
Sensei: 178-186 Volume 21

If we use this reasoning, a TPN is missing 7 chapters to close volume 21.

 

[RafGL]

If we use this reasoning, a TPN is missing 7 chapters to close volume 21.

Not quite the same reasoning. We don't know how much will TPN arc last, but every WNL route has had exactly 9 chapters each, with the first one filling a volume by itself. It's pretty much a fixated amount of chapters.

 

[westabyss]

Actually the plagiarism angle is one of my main problems with the manga, combined with a really bad MC. If the plagiarism plot would be executed well, i would have no problem but the story just plays out too convenient for the MC. Its really cartoonish at some point. Like the girl finds out about the MC stealing his work and in the end they just become friendly rivals? Thats too unrealistic, even for Manga. And the MC continues stealing her work even after realizing that it wasn't a dream. That's just evil and the problem is the Manga isn't portraying it as evil. Also the motivation of the MC to create Manga is just so devoid of anything. He wants to make people happy which is fine but we don't really get any insight how he tries to do it. He just seems like a guy who is incapable of really creating Manga and just is obsessed with that goal without really putting the work in.
I think it is probably the most offensive new title, Jump has ever serialized. The first time i followed the TOC, was when Lock On was serialized and since then i haven't seen a Manga as offensive as this. Were there worse Manga? Yes. But i'd rather take something boring as Bone Collection than something like this.

Also, because Death Note is brought up a lot. Light was never portrayed as good which the MC in this Manga is. The thing is if you make a evil main character, at least make him charismatic or give him some other kind of special personality. Teppei is devoid of any personality and is spineless. If he would actually be a person who would do knowingly evil things and have some kind of villainous personality, the Manga could become really interesting.

Judging by the japanese reaction which is pretty similar to mine, i don't think the Manga will last. Its really easy sometimes to predict which Manga will be liked more in MH and which more in Japan. I feel like a lot of people here like the idea of the Manga more than the actual series. Just because its trying something new, doesn't mean its good.

 

[Lil meen]

These seem like good signs for the series considering it’s getting manga bonuses and merchandise this early. Im sure jump won’t invest this much time in a cancelled series.

 

[Stivie]

Actually the plagiarism angle is one of my main problems with the manga, combined with a really bad MC. If the plagiarism plot would be executed well, i would have no problem but the story just plays out too convenient for the MC. Its really cartoonish at some point. Like the girl finds out about the MC stealing his work and in the end they just become friendly rivals? Thats too unrealistic, even for Manga. And the MC continues stealing her work even after realizing that it wasn't a dream. That's just evil and the problem is the Manga isn't portraying it as evil. Also the motivation of the MC to create Manga is just so devoid of anything. He wants to make people happy which is fine but we don't really get any insight how he tries to do it. He just seems like a guy who is incapable of really creating Manga and just is obsessed with that goal without really putting the work in.
I think it is probably the most offensive new title, Jump has ever serialized. The first time i followed the TOC, was when Lock On was serialized and since then i haven't seen a Manga as offensive as this. Were there worse Manga? Yes. But i'd rather take something boring as Bone Collection than something like this.

Also, because Death Note is brought up a lot. Light was never portrayed as good which the MC in this Manga is. The thing is if you make a evil main character, at least make him charismatic or give him some other kind of special personality. Teppei is devoid of any personality and is spineless. If he would actually be a person who would do knowingly evil things and have some kind of villainous personality, the Manga could become really interesting.

Judging by the japanese reaction which is pretty similar to mine, i don't think the Manga will last. Its really easy sometimes to predict which Manga will be liked more in MH and which more in Japan. I feel like a lot of people here like the idea of the Manga more than the actual series. Just because its trying something new, doesn't mean its good.

It's not as surreal as you're accusing. It is pure suspension of disbelief, not everything is 100% realistic.
I understood the criticisms of Tokyo shinobi squad regarding the issue of criticizing globalization, even though the author has chickened out and has not touched on the subject after the second chapter.
About Time paradox is a silly criticism, since the manga itself does not defend plagiarism, the protagonist himself sees this as a problem.
The manga has only 3 chapters, it is still presenting characters and even if the protagonist is not good it does not prevent his surroundings from being.
The story has not fully developed.

Death note is cited because the things that light does are worse than Teppei.
And another just because the character started cowardly nothing prevents him from changing over time and becoming bad.

 

[westabyss]

It's not as surreal as you're accusing. It is pure suspension of disbelief, not everything is 100% realistic.
I understood the criticisms of Tokyo shinobi squad regarding the issue of criticizing globalization, even though the author has chickened out and has not touched on the subject after the second chapter.
About Time paradox is a silly criticism, since the manga itself does not defend plagiarism, the protagonist himself sees this as a problem.
The manga has only 3 chapters, it is still presenting characters and even if the protagonist is not good it does not prevent his surroundings from being.
The story has not fully developed.

Death note is cited because the things that light does are worse than Teppei.
And another just because the character started cowardly nothing prevents him from changing over time and becoming bad.

There are things where suspension of disbelief is relevant, for example in Kaiju vs. Mecha fights but when it comes to character motivations, there still needs to be a logical realm where everything takes place.

'Only' 3 chapters, you should say 'already' 3 chapters. Especially for Jump Manga, we know that Manga swim or sink within their first chapters and usually already the first chapter determines if it sticks or doesn't. And because of that, Mangaka give their best with the first chapter of their Manga. I don't even need the first chapter to be necessarily good but i need to see potential. For example, Act Age didn't have an amazing first chapter but i saw potential in it. I even gave TPGW 3 chapters, because the reception here is so good and i wanted to get why. If i would give every Manga the chance that it might get good eventually, someday in the future, i would be reading so much Manga, that i wouldn't have time to do anything else.