One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Brandish μ]

I made no credible point ?
... I don't know what to respond. Are you just trolling?

I am not trolling. All you did there was take every situation Mihawk was in, and make a re-enactment with Kaido doing everything you expect. It has no credibility because it's imagination or simulation on your part, for what you think has to happen. Your other points made prior made sense.

You're saying Mihawk is Yonko level, and the main reason why he got disrespected during Marineford is his lack of crew. I'm saying, replace Mihawk with another Yonko then, a Yonko alone with no crew. I took Kaido as an example. I'm saying, Kaido with no crew would not be ignored like Mihawk was, would not be casually blocked and stalled 1v1 by Yonko Commanders like Mihawk was, Whitebeard would show some respect and seriousness about Kaido's individual power whereas he showed none with Mihawk. If you disagree, i guess we can just stop the debate and agree to disagree. But saying your thinkg about the cool story bro emoji and saying i'm not making any credible point... Didn't expect that from you tbh.

I'm saying Mihawk can fight Shanks evenly. If that means 'Yonkou level', then that's fine. Akainu, Aokiji and others are on this same level.

I get what you're saying about the 'respect', and how that portrays the power levels. I don't believe that character statements are going to be consistent either. Nor do I think Oda has to make character say things according to power levels. The portrayal of Mihawk and Shanks is strictly battle-based - but may be dated.

It's not personal but you did make a story up.

 

[Ramen]

Akainu and Aokiji have established their rep based on their actions. Mihawk is a walking title.

 

[Brandish μ]

Akainu and Aokiji have established their rep based on their actions. Mihawk is a walking title.

What do you think of Dragon?

 

[Ramen]

With that being said, Akainu and Aokiji are the strongest non-yonko characters.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 28, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 28, 2020 ---

What do you think of Dragon?

Top 10 character like Mihawk. Is he Yonko tier? Not until he proves something.

 

[Pirate Queen]

What do you think of Dragon?

The revolutionary army is actively at war with the government as this manga progresses, of which Dragon is the leader. He's not a walking title. It's well earned "wanted" title, not a strength based title, right?

Its not like people are saying Dragon is for sure yonko level.

Worlds most wanted man has nothing to do with strength.

 

[Ramen]

Nah, Aokiji get's dissed out of all characters just because he lost to Akainu. Wherever you put Akainu, you have to put Aokiji.

 

[Brandish μ]

The revolutionary army is actively at war with the government as this manga rogress, of which Dragon is apart of. He's not a walking title. It's well earned wanted title, not a strength based title, right?

Its not like people are saying Dragon is for sure yonko level.

Worlds most wanted man has nothing to do with strength.

To be fair - we don't know what Mihawk's level is for sure either. Everyone is taking a stab at where he falls and making their points for it.

But yes that's what I'm getting at. At the end of the day the title is just something that is given to someone who earns something. Oda gives out some of them too, and they seem to all coincide with being a top tier in power levels. That's my main point, it's how Oda portrays them and my interpretation of it,

You can look at Dragon's underling, Sabo, defeated a YC, and fought evenly with an admiral. Logically, like Luffy > Zoro, Dragon should be stronger than Sabo. Which indicates Dragon is a top tier, which is consistent with this "Worlds Worst Criminal" title, if we're entertaining that.

 

[Ramen]

To be fair - we don't know what Mihawk's level is for sure either. Everyone is taking a stab at where he falls and making their points for it.

But yes that's what I'm getting at. At the end of the day the title is just something that is given to someone who earns something. Oda gives out some of them too, and they seem to all coincide with being a top tier in power levels. That's my main point, it's how Oda portrays them and my interpretation of it,

You can look at Dragon's underling, Sabo, defeated a YC, and fought evenly with an admiral. Logically, like Luffy > Zoro, Dragon should be stronger than Sabo. Which indicates Dragon is a top tier, which is consistent with this "Worlds Worst Criminal" title, if we're entertaining that.

Not all top tiers are equal.

 

[Brandish μ]

Not all top tiers are equal.

Agreed, they don't need to be equal. But they're close enough in power to form a tier because they'd group that way.

 

[Takuan]

I am not trolling. All you did there was take every situation Mihawk was in, and make a re-enactment with Kaido doing everything you expect. It has no credibility because it's imagination or simulation on your part, for what you think has to happen. Your other points made prior made sense.



I'm saying Mihawk can fight Shanks evenly. If that means 'Yonkou level', then that's fine. Akainu, Aokiji and others are on this same level.

I get what you're saying about the 'respect', and how that portrays the power levels. I don't believe that character statements are going to be consistent either. Nor do I think Oda has to make character say things according to power levels. The portrayal of Mihawk and Shanks is strictly battle-based - but may be dated.

It's not personal but you did make a story up.

Yes... That's exactly what i did. Which is perfectly acceptable, that's the whole point of the debate; we don't know where Mihawk stands currently in power levels, that's what we're arguing about, and since it is not clearly shown in the manga, then yes, we're using opinions and we try to imagine how things would pan out. I can just say to you that you have no credibility either when you say Mihawk can fight Shanks evenly. They used to be equal in the past, now we don't know, that's precisely the debate in the community, is Mihawk still Shanks' level. You don't see me telling you cool story bro when you're giving your opinion about it. I don't know man.

I don't care much about having credibility, can you adress my point about Kaido? Yes, it is a scenario that hasn't happened in the manga, yes i'm making a simulation, kind of the point of the battle threads - nobody talks about credibility in there, it's about trying to imagine what would happen and give his opinion about it. So please, replace Mihawk with Kaido during Marineford, and tell me if you think Whitebeard and his crew would have reacted to Kaido cmpared to how they reacted to Mihawk.
My whole point about it stems frm your own point, about Mihawk being Shanks' level but being alone makes his portrayal lackluster in comparison. All i'm saying is, imo the treatment Mihawk got in Marineford isn't that of a crewless Yonko, hence why i took the example of crewless Kaido. Doesn't really matter if you adress that point in particular, you can just stop here and say my scenario was a rhetorical question to get my point across. Imo, Mihawk has the prtrayal of having been Shank's equal in the past, but in Marineford he has the portrayal of being inferior to Yonkos individually speaking. Again, as you say, no credibility. Nobody here has any. So let's disagree.

 

[Ramen]

Agreed, they don't need to be equal. But they're close enough in power to form a tier because they'd group that way.

Yea but there is a gap. Is Fuji a top tier? Yes. Is he close to Aokiji, Akainu or Kaido? No imo.

 

[Brandish μ]

can you adress my point about Kaido?

To what extent? In your simulation does he get to keep his reputation as an Emperor, or is he stripped of that and it's just about his fighting ability as a lone wolf who fought legendary duels with Shanks?

nobody talks about credibility in there

I'll keep this in mind. I don't think it's credible to flip a plot in a manga to suit my point, and pass it off as if that's what would happen. Like I said you made good points about Mihawk's portrayal prior to that.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 28, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 28, 2020 ---

Yea but there is a gap. Is Fuji a top tier? Yes. Is he close to Aokiji, Akainu or Kaido? No imo.

Well without getting pedantic, it seems like you've identified Fuji as not on the same tier. Putting people on the same tier means they share similar power levels. If Fuji is below that, he is. Sabo would be on that tier too, maybe current Luffy, and some others. Then have the big dogs on top. Whatever works for you.

It's really hard to work with terms such as "Yonkou tier", although I find Commander level as reasonable.

 

[Takuan]

To what extent? In your simulation does he get to keep his reputation as an Emperor, or is he stripped of that and it's just about his fighting ability as a lone wolf who fought legendary duels with Shanks?

His reputation as an Emperor? What do you mean by that? Kaido is a Yonko.
What makes someone a Yonko anyway? The 4 most powerful pirates in the world. Individual strength, powerful crews and control of territory? And gunning for One Piece maybe? Well, crew, OP and territory don't matter in this scenario anyway. So no, he still has his reputation of being a Yonko, and the World's Strongest Creature. Someone who, in a 1v1 scenario, you should always bet on.
I mean you can strip him of his Yonko title if you want, as long as his individual strength is still known and as feared as it is currently.

I'll keep this in mind. I don't think it's credible to flip a plot in a manga to suit my point, and pass it off as if that's what would happen. Like I said you made good points about Mihawk's portrayal prior to that.

Well i didn't create a fact and claim it true, or well at least it wasn't the goal, what i said was only my opinion of what would happen in that scenario.

 

[M3J]

Lol my bad. I seriously thought you were shasha.

Yes M3J, we agree. I know you stance wholeheartedly.

I'm sorry

I'm offended, I don't attack others, and I use manga points instead of spinning my own interpretation. Uncalled for

Oh okay, just making sure. I know few members here were hellbent on claiming Luffy does have to beat the Emperors and/or be the strongest to be the Pirate King when: Roger only acquired that title after getting to Raftel; Whitebeard never became the Pirate King despite being known as the strongest in the world; and Usopp and Luffy hinted or confirmed that they didn't even need to touch an Emperor to become the Pirate King, that they just need to get to Raftel.

I mean, I dunno about you, but I at least agreed that Luffy and others will have to be strong enough to take on the Yonkou and the Marines, but not necessarily the strongest.

I mean, when Shanks came to stop the war all the Marines respected him and his crew, that's respect. When Mihawk stands ready to fight against Whitebeard's crew, if he's a Yonko level character, you'd expect Whitebeard and his crew to at least adress the fact that they're facing such a threat. Instead no word of praise was said, and he got blocked twice by a Yonko Commander.

Garp and Whitebeard are from the same generation, but it's not like Whitebeard doesn't know Mihawk. He even had a little chat with SHanks if i'm not mistaken, about the legendary duels Shanks and Mihawk were having back in the day. Whitebeard is aware of Mihawk's power. He still didn't even pay much attention to him, and trusted Jozu to be capable of handling him, and then Vista thought he could as well. That is just not the level of respect you should be having when fighting a Yonko level character.

Shanks came out of nowhere though, and he and his group were fresh enough to fight and take down any enemy, so the Marines knew better than to continue. Mihawk was already part of the fight, and he was acknowledged as being extremely strong. His intent, unlike Shanks, wasn't to stop the war, it was to stop and if possible, take down Whitebeard. I think there's a considerable difference, but I have no idea if Mihawk would still get the respect that Shanks did if he did what SHanks did. Plus, I think an Emperor has image than a swordsman.

You're right, but has Whitebeard fought with Mihawk a lot? I know he's fought with Garp, and Garp's known as the hero of the Marines who managed to go toe-to-toe with Roger. What if Mihawk was way too lowkey?

Jozu's diamond body could be why? I don't think Jozu got hurt until he was frozen.

I really wish WB kept that portrayal, because the Kaido stuff feels like a retcon. Kaido, the dude who was stopped by Shanks. But things are changed now, with Oda giving shine to Kaido now. I still think WB has the portrayal - if we look at the bounties, that is roughly how they shape up. WB was presented with Roger, plus Roger and WB have more of a history.



Not at all, Vista is a strong opponent, and he had the intent to stop Mihawk, which he succeeded in.

Shanks should have gotten stronger, to obtain the Emperor title I'd say he went through a lot of battles. He might have had more fighting than Mihawk since their last clash.

I think Oda was just trying to hype up Kaidou, but he didn't entirely do a retcon as Kaidou still kept Whitebeard in a tier of his own, no? On top of what you said. It is kind of weird to give more shine to Kaidou, unless it's just to hype Luffy up if he wins or wins alone.

Yep, and I think Shanks wasn't just fighting with his sword, but doing hand-to-hand as well.

What do you think of Dragon?

What do YOU think of Dragon?

Nah, Aokiji get's dissed out of all characters just because he lost to Akainu. Wherever you put Akainu, you have to put Aokiji.

I haven't seen get dissed, but otherwise I agree. Aokiji is a freakin' powerhouse (as far as we know), and he probably boosted Blackbeard's strength considerably.

 

[Ramen]

I haven't seen get dissed, but otherwise I agree. Aokiji is a freakin' powerhouse (as far as we know), and he probably boosted Blackbeard's strength considerably.

Look at Quora. People have Cracker above him.

'm offended, I don't attack others, and I use manga points instead of spinning my own interpretation. Uncalled for

You attacked me

 

[Takuan]

Shanks came out of nowhere though, and he and his group were fresh enough to fight and take down any enemy, so the Marines knew better than to continue. Mihawk was already part of the fight, and he was acknowledged as being extremely strong. His intent, unlike Shanks, wasn't to stop the war, it was to stop and if possible, take down Whitebeard. I think there's a considerable difference, but I have no idea if Mihawk would still get the respect that Shanks did if he did what SHanks did. Plus, I think an Emperor has image than a swordsman.

You're right, but has Whitebeard fought with Mihawk a lot? I know he's fought with Garp, and Garp's known as the hero of the Marines who managed to go toe-to-toe with Roger. What if Mihawk was way too lowkey?

Jozu's diamond body could be why? I don't think Jozu got hurt until he was frozen.

Fair enough. It's true that Shanks and his crew were fresh compared to everybody else, so that has to help people decide not to engage on them. Good point.

I just don't know dude, i can understand the side of "Mihawk is Yonko level but since he's lowkey and a lone wolf, he doesn't get the same respect as the Yonkos". I really can understand that. I still feel like he should have gotten more respect and a better portrayal during Marineford, and/or more feats to actually show he's still Shanks's level - instead we got Vista dueling with him equally. That fight alone makes me question Mihawk's true place in the power scaling, especially after we've seen how a Yonko (Big Mom) can casually one shot a YC (Queen).

Despite what i've been arguing, i want Mihawk to be Yonko level lol i want him to appear again and shine for real and prove his worth.

 

[M3J]

Look at Quora. People have Cracker above him.



You attacked me

Oh. I was talking about this forum as it's my only exposure to manga and anime otaku.


No I wouldn't. You're a Knicks fan, you're taking enough Ls as it is.

Fair enough. It's true that Shanks and his crew were fresh compared to everybody else, so that has to help people decide not to engage on them. Good point.

I just don't know dude, i can understand the side of "Mihawk is Yonko level but since he's lowkey and a lone wolf, he doesn't get the same respect as the Yonkos". I really can understand that. I still feel like he should have gotten more respect and a better portrayal during Marineford, and/or more feats to actually show he's still Shanks's level - instead we got Vista dueling with him equally. That fight alone makes me question Mihawk's true place in the power scaling, especially after we've seen how a Yonko (Big Mom) can casually one shot a YC (Queen).

Despite what i've been arguing, i want Mihawk to be Yonko level lol i want him to appear again and shine for real and prove his worth.

The whole reason for four Emperors and the Marines still standing is because they're way to close or equal in power that if one warred the other, they'd take too much damage even in victory and likely be too weak to take on another high-tiered opponent. That's probably what happened here as well - the Marines took enough of a loss that in addition to respect for Shanks, they knew not to fight a second Yonkou.

I'm throwing out different possibilities though, I have no idea what's true or possible. I personally don't care for Shanks vs. Mihawk debate, because in the end Zoro and Luffy are likely going to surpass them anyway.

 

[goldb]

Possible under the Admirals as well. They didn't fear Mihawk's appearance unlike WB's and Shanks's appearance.

You're talking about Marineford? why would they fear him if he's on their side? So it can't be said with certainty that he ranks below admirals, but considering his renown I'd place at least at that level.

What do you think of Dragon?

Considering his no.2 (Sabo) can hold his own against a Marine Admiral, I'd also put him at least on that level. That is with no feat, just an educated guess based on his subordinate's strength and the fact that he's the "Most Wanted Man" in the world; which in itself doesn't mean much beside the obvious threat the Revolutionary Army pose to the WG.

 

[nik87]

Manga has actually shown us this, whether or not you like it. Can you even prove Mihawk would beat Shanks if swords are banned?

He has shown only sword fights before, and I gave you examples. If you want to deny it, be my guest. You're the one bringing in devil fruits, I never mentioned that. I don't give a shit about devil fruit, If Kizaru makes a sword with his fruit power, it's still sword fighting even if it gives him an advantage. If Zoro gets a devil fruit that makes him even better at swordfighting and beats Mihawk, he's inherited the title. The problem was never devil fruit.

Manga has shown us what? Swordsmen without DF's fighting? So what? Manga never defined "pure swordsmanship" as a special type of fight.
It has also shown un swordsmen with DF's fighting as well as the mix of those two. It isnt a manga thing, it is a fandom fabrication.
So what was the problem? There is no problem from what I see except you pushing a term which doesnt exist and is of no relevance.

I like Mihawk a lot, but he doesn't have the portrayal of a Yonko level character. Marineford proved it.

Mihawk is a Shichibukai. What have the Shichibukai's done in Marineford war? Nothing of significance. All of them were fooling around, pretending that they are doing something, making it look like they are fighting for World Government to keep their titles and benefits which come with it. Not a single one of them was fighting seriously, they are way too smart to do that for WG's sake. Mihawk tested WB because he suspected his strength being reduced, got the confirmation that he is right, also tested the luck and fate of the main character and confirmed that his greatest power is making people want to help him.

When it comes to portrayal, Oda was clear back in chapter 49, I believe. Mihawk will stand at the top and await Zoro as his final challenge which undoubtedly will surpass Zoro's earlier challenges which will probably include top tiers like Admirals or Gandhi from WG's highest authority, the Gorosei.
Oda hypes up the ones who are being taken in current arc as the strongest.

When it was Whitebeard's arc, he was hyping him, Kaido wasnt even on the map back then because it works against Oda if he hyped Kaido during Whitebeard's arc. Now that we moved on to WCI, he was hyping up Big Mom as invincible, never scratched, walking-through-earth monster. We moved on to Wano and now he is hyping up Kaido as the strongest living thing. Whether those who come after will be hyped up more is doubtable but they will be hyped for sure when it is time for their arc.

We have literally seen nothing from most top tiers. Mihawk's title puts him above any other swordsman, there is no pure sword duel or anything like that which the fandom has produced. If Oda has decided that a sword is a weapon of choice for a certain character, it means they are swordsmen, no more no less and by default they are below Mihawk. It may be hard to swallow since personal tier lists are not compatible with it but Oda isnt concerned with those. He isnt throwing WSx titles around to anyone who comes by, he dedicated those to only 3 characters and the two, whose arcs we have seen so far, are totally justified. Whether Mihawk's title is justified or not, we will see when it is time for Mihawk's 5 mins. It's not hard to guess that he will justify it as well.

 

[King Moe]

You're talking about Marineford? why would they fear him if he's on their side? So it can't be said with certainty that he ranks below admirals, but considering his renown I'd place at least at that level.



Considering his no.2 (Sabo) can hold his own against a Marine Admiral, I'd also put him at least on that level. That is with no feat, just an educated guess based on his subordinate's strength and the fact that he's the "Most Wanted Man" in the world; which in itself doesn't mean much beside the obvious threat the Revolutionary Army pose to the WG.

They aren't actually 'allies' to the core though as Warlords are like 'pirates for hire' you can team with your enemy while still fearing them. I can't see him beating Aokiji, Akainu, and Kizaru in a straight fight especially feats given to them compare what Mihawk honestly.