Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2020] - Discussion and ToC Talk

[Shinuki no Reborn]

MANGAHELPERS "TOC" POLL ISSUE #51 - VOTING!​

The poll for issue #51 is now open, vote for your favorite chapters of the week clicking HERE!

Alongside the release of Sakamoto Days, the extra series this week are:

-Dragon Ball Super 66
-Boruto: Naruto Next Generations 52
-Ghost Reaper Girl 10

Good Votes!

 

[Halloween]

Moderator Notice:
Henceforth, I will be deleting posts that complain about Weekly Shonen Jump having too many/not enough gag/battle/exorcism/sports/etc series.

These posts are not insightful, and do not meaningfully contribute to this thread. Also, this decision is not up for discussion, so posts discussing this decision will also be deleted.~ Halloween

 

[Ryuusei]

Spoiler: 52 TOC & 01 Preview

呪 僕 O マ ブ S C D 破 C B 夜 C 僕 あ 灼 ぼ チ 高 ア 森 A 仄 ぼ 次号カラー ヒロアカ アンデラ 夜桜 約ネバ 道産子 GIGA 岸本先生が描くコラボポスター 爆豪クリアファイル

Spoiler: Issue #52 ToC & Preview

Jujutsu Kaisen (Cover & LCP)
My Hero Academia
One Piece
Mashle
Black Clover
Sakamoto Days (CP)
Dr. Stone
Magu-chan: God of Destruction (CP)
Build King
Mission: Yozakura Family
Me & Roboco
Ayakashi Triangle (CP)
Shakunetsu no Niraikanai
We Never Learn
Chainsaw Man
Koukousei Kazoku
Undead Unluck
Moriking
Agravity Boys
Honomieru Shounen
Bokura no Ketsumei

Issue #1
Cover & LCP: My Hero Academia
CP: Undead Unluck, Mission: Yozakura Family, The Promised Neverland, Dosanko Gyaru wa Namaramenkoi

GIGA Preview
Collab poster by Kishimoto
Bakugou clear file

 

[James Rye]

Shoseki Daily Ranking - 6/27

#60 World Trigger 22
#65 Jujutsu Kaisen 11
#75 Chainsaw Man 7
#164 Jigokuraku 10
#219 We Never Learn 17
#237 Mashle 1

WOOT! WT!!! <3
Damn, Mashle really does not want to leave, there must be Creampuffs involved after all! XD

The support for World Trigger always gets to me.

Me too. Each time a new WT release gets so well received I remember the two year Hiatus and how at the start we still had the huge WT thread with dozens of users talking about it with ten thousand views and so many pages and then over the years, they dropped out one by one until I was only talking to myself and the last ten posts have been all me about news regarding Ashihara's health, WT's possible return status and ofc the hiatus counter. And then at some point the WT thread just disappeared for good and I couldn't even talk to myself about WT anymore...
Well, as monthly series with occasional breaks it is pretty hard to get a new thread going here but I am sure once the 2nd season hits we get some more talk over there as well.^^

As for the male/female editors in WSJ, I would like to see some female ones. Mostly because no matter how good you are at inserting yourself into other people you cannot have their experiences and females do have different experiences than men which can play a part in seeing manga series for what they are worth. While there are obvious biological differences between men and women the, in my eyes really important reason, real differences lies in how society sees "men" and "women". Like you see boys worrying about being perceived as "manly" or girls worrying about being seen as "pretty" yet you hardly see many boys using skincare or make-up to look good or girls who are all over about that manliness. They exist, but a guy prettying himself up is considered as "gay" whereas a girl not caring for her outer appearance has also a lot of not flattering descriptions. Basically it is about what people as society consider as a norm for what a boy is and what a girl is and how they are supposed to behave. Due that knowledge both male and female mangaka can write good male and female characters in the sense that they feel relatable and believable to the readers while being entertaining (the three big story pillars) but a man mangaka will have had different life experiences than a female mangaka exactly because of said labels put of them by others during their entire life (boys don't cry, a girl should not fight, etc) and that will in one way or another affect their way of writing and perceiving manga. Thus I think having female Editors in WSJ would be good for it due the broader POV.

 

[Serinox]

Also do shoujo magazines have the same problem but reversed or do they have male editors and alot of male portaginst ?

iirc a majority of the editors in mainstream Shoujo magazines are male.

 

[Shokkii]

I always hear part 6 wasn't really well received in Japan but Jolyne should be mentioned because JoJo is pretty a big thing after all.

 

[Koni]

It's funny, cause after catching up on this thread, I came across an AniList forum thread titled "Battle Shonen are sexist". Looked through it a bit, sounds like it'd be a can of worms that I'd rather not open.

As for the whole female editor thing, I have to ask:

*sigh*

The worst part is how proud they are of it...

...when was this originally published in Japan? I'm simply curious. I'm not gonna argue that there's been a change in mindset because:

Shueisha Says Female Jump Editors Need to 'Understand the Hearts of Boys'

Weekly Shonen Jump has never had a female editor in its 50-year history

www.animenewsnetwork.com

There hasn't. Reading that page pissed me off a bit, honestly. They're just needlessly limiting their talent pool. I guess they're either less proud of it now or don't show it as much because now when they said it, they got a ton of shit for it. In Japan.

 

[AbrahamOmosun]

 

[DeidaraGrimmjow]

You do realise some of the most popular shonen manga of all time were written by women right? Hell Gotouge themselves are rumored to be female, even if there is no real confirmation for that.

By this logic Fullmetal alchemist, Urusei Yatsura, Ranma, Inuyasha, Reborn (quite possibly KNY) and so on all should've run in a shoujo magazine because a woman couldn't possibly know what guys want. Women know WSJ is a boy's magazine, it's not like they would try to change it into weekly shoujo jump.

I saw several people respond to my initial post so I hope this reply encompasses all of them at least somewhat well.

Yes obviously I'm aware of that. Throw D.Gray-Man in there for good measure. I didn't say that women are incapable of creating a good shonen series. But I'd argue those examples are the exceptions, not the norm first, and second it seems less about that and more "Let's hire women/hope a female protagonist becomes a face of the magazine because it's 2020 and we're woke." If it happens organically or whatever cool but doing it because others pressure you or just to give themselves a pat on the shoulder is something I'm against.

To the point someone made about romance, speaking for myself, as a kid and now, I never had any desire to see romance in the shonen series I liked even though I know it's a common thing to do in most shows/series not just manga. But to me that's the equivalent of reading a typical shojo drama and saying "Where are the fights and superpowers"? Nor have I ever been intrested in reading a series and trying to identify with the female characters (again speaking personally). I'd also argue that Chi Chi and Sakura (two common characters people complain about), stereotypes though they may be, aren't exactly incongruent.

Concerning DB Super: Broly, Toriyama said something to the effect of: "I hope young boys, men with the hearts of boys and even the very small number of women who understand the hearts of young boys can enjoy the movie." There's a reason he phrased it like that.

Lastly, my concern is that Jump could become what Hollywood has. People call classic strong male protagonists as "toxic and misogynist." Look at what's happening to James Bond, what happened to Ghost Busters and a crap ton of other franchises in current times. Or who whenever a female is drawn a certain way in American superhero comics it's always "Women aren't built like that! The skirt is too short! Draw them realistically! Sexist!" And so on. It's tiresome. I won't go off on a tangent about this off topic subject but that's basically where I'm coming from. I'd hate to see Jump become that.

 

[James Rye]

If the second Volume of Ab shows some growth compared to its first one, it might survive Mitama though it seems Mitama is more liked by the WSJ Editors and WSJ questionnaires. But Mitama's sales have been really not good and it is not growing either. And with so many Comedy series in the Line-Up Mitama cannot build on the "gag manga that lives forever" trope.

 

[Brizzi]

I saw several people respond to my initial post so I hope this reply encompasses all of them at least somewhat well.

Yes obviously I'm aware of that. Throw D.Gray-Man in there for good measure. I didn't say that women are incapable of creating a good shonen series. But I'd argue those examples are the exceptions, not the norm first, and second it seems less about that and more "Let's hire women/hope a female protagonist becomes a face of the magazine because it's 2020 and we're woke." If it happens organically or whatever cool but doing it because others pressure you or just to give themselves a pat on the shoulder is something I'm against.

To the point someone made about romance, speaking for myself, as a kid and now, I never had any desire to see romance in the shonen series I liked even though I know it's a common thing to do in most shows/series not just manga. But to me that's the equivalent of reading a typical shojo drama and saying "Where are the fights and superpowers"? Nor have I ever been intrested in reading a series and trying to identify with the female characters (again speaking personally). I'd also argue that Chi Chi and Sakura (two common characters people complain about), stereotypes though they may be, aren't exactly incongruent.

Concerning DB Super: Broly, Toriyama said something to the effect of: "I hope young boys, men with the hearts of boys and even the very small number of women who understand the hearts of young boys can enjoy the movie." There's a reason he phrased it like that.

Lastly, my concern is that Jump could become what Hollywood has. People call classic strong male protagonists as "toxic and misogynist." Look at what's happening to James Bond, what happened to Ghost Busters and a crap ton of other franchises in current times. Or who whenever a female is drawn a certain way in American superhero comics it's always "Women aren't built like that! The skirt is too short! Draw them realistically! Sexist!" And so on. It's tiresome. I won't go off on a tangent about this off topic subject but that's basically where I'm coming from. I'd hate to see Jump become that.

People who have this kind of mindset are probably going to be annoyed regardless of changes being """forced""" or organic.

Also, time passes and how we perceive some stereotypes can change. That's a good thing.

 

[Lord fifth]

Nobody is really stopping female portaginst from appearing in jump or becoming pillar, the promised never land was pushed by the magazine afterall and became a pillar.

The problem is from what I have been hearing is the lack of female editors.

 

[Stivie]

 

[MangAniMY]

 

[KengANg]

I would like to point out that Ayakashi Triangle is already pulling in fanart, including 18+ art, on Twitter and pixiv. Nice to see people enjoying the series and especially Yabuki's fans standing with him after the weird case of so few Kishimoto fans showing up for Samurai 8.

Magu-chan is more impressive to me. Only 1 chapter and it already have some fan art and porn(YeY tentacles overlord)

 

[Lord fifth]

By the way where does the one piece academy manga get published?

 

[MangAniMY]

By the way where does the one piece academy manga get published?

Saikyo jump

 

[Lord fifth]

Saikyo jump

Thanks

 

[Ryuusei]

I am wondering when are we getting Dr. Stone's and Black Clover's popularity polls' results. It's been 4 months since they got announced.

 

[Newkerzy]

I saw several people respond to my initial post so I hope this reply encompasses all of them at least somewhat well.

Yes obviously I'm aware of that. Throw D.Gray-Man in there for good measure. I didn't say that women are incapable of creating a good shonen series. But I'd argue those examples are the exceptions, not the norm first, and second it seems less about that and more "Let's hire women/hope a female protagonist becomes a face of the magazine because it's 2020 and we're woke." If it happens organically or whatever cool but doing it because others pressure you or just to give themselves a pat on the shoulder is something I'm against.

To the point someone made about romance, speaking for myself, as a kid and now, I never had any desire to see romance in the shonen series I liked even though I know it's a common thing to do in most shows/series not just manga. But to me that's the equivalent of reading a typical shojo drama and saying "Where are the fights and superpowers"? Nor have I ever been intrested in reading a series and trying to identify with the female characters (again speaking personally). I'd also argue that Chi Chi and Sakura (two common characters people complain about), stereotypes though they may be, aren't exactly incongruent.

Concerning DB Super: Broly, Toriyama said something to the effect of: "I hope young boys, men with the hearts of boys and even the very small number of women who understand the hearts of young boys can enjoy the movie." There's a reason he phrased it like that.

Lastly, my concern is that Jump could become what Hollywood has. People call classic strong male protagonists as "toxic and misogynist." Look at what's happening to James Bond, what happened to Ghost Busters and a crap ton of other franchises in current times. Or who whenever a female is drawn a certain way in American superhero comics it's always "Women aren't built like that! The skirt is too short! Draw them realistically! Sexist!" And so on. It's tiresome. I won't go off on a tangent about this off topic subject but that's basically where I'm coming from. I'd hate to see Jump become that.

Good points overall. Companies nowadays try to score brownie points with the feminist/SJW crowd, because that’s where the money is. The real issue is that some of these companies are implementing these pro-feminist/SJW policies without truly understanding the issue at hand, and as such, these people just end up pandering to these crowds. Money talks, after all.

As for WSJ hiring female editors, I’m all for it. But they seriously need to get off their asses and consider the option. What needs to happen is the political will to realize that vision. There are some people/sectors that needs to make this happen organically, and some needs to have their hands forced. I’m somewhat inclined towards the latter on this matter in Jump.

I would actually much prefer the former approach, though.

P.S: I gotta wonder if a big name like Arakawa would shake things up. I’m aware of Hoshino, but as far name goes, I think she’s more recognized.

 

[SharkBait]

To the point someone made about romance, speaking for myself, as a kid and now, I never had any desire to see romance in the shonen series I liked even though I know it's a common thing to do in most shows/series not just manga. But to me that's the equivalent of reading a typical shojo drama and saying "Where are the fights and superpowers"?

I dont understand this viewpoint, theres tons of male written shonen rom-coms and female written shoujo action stories with fights and super powers.

Using that viewpoint, series like Act Age should be booted from WSJ and Kono Oto Tomare shoud be booted from Jump SQ.

 

[Thundercat27]

I saw several people respond to my initial post so I hope this reply encompasses all of them at least somewhat well.

Yes obviously I'm aware of that. Throw D.Gray-Man in there for good measure. I didn't say that women are incapable of creating a good shonen series. But I'd argue those examples are the exceptions, not the norm first, and second it seems less about that and more "Let's hire women/hope a female protagonist becomes a face of the magazine because it's 2020 and we're woke." If it happens organically or whatever cool but doing it because others pressure you or just to give themselves a pat on the shoulder is something I'm against.

To the point someone made about romance, speaking for myself, as a kid and now, I never had any desire to see romance in the shonen series I liked even though I know it's a common thing to do in most shows/series not just manga. But to me that's the equivalent of reading a typical shojo drama and saying "Where are the fights and superpowers"? Nor have I ever been intrested in reading a series and trying to identify with the female characters (again speaking personally). I'd also argue that Chi Chi and Sakura (two common characters people complain about), stereotypes though they may be, aren't exactly incongruent.

Concerning DB Super: Broly, Toriyama said something to the effect of: "I hope young boys, men with the hearts of boys and even the very small number of women who understand the hearts of young boys can enjoy the movie." There's a reason he phrased it like that.

Lastly, my concern is that Jump could become what Hollywood has. People call classic strong male protagonists as "toxic and misogynist." Look at what's happening to James Bond, what happened to Ghost Busters and a crap ton of other franchises in current times. Or who whenever a female is drawn a certain way in American superhero comics it's always "Women aren't built like that! The skirt is too short! Draw them realistically! Sexist!" And so on. It's tiresome. I won't go off on a tangent about this off topic subject but that's basically where I'm coming from. I'd hate to see Jump become that.

So you mean, just because Hollywood made bad movies and tumblr doing tumblr things, rest of the world can not be progressive, even in a occupation that has forbidden women for over half a century, since its conception?
This is like using the aftermath of Haitian revolution to justify continuing slavery. No, you can't, there are more nuanced to it, just like there are more nuanced to why "woke" culture in the West fail. And it is not applicable to even more backward places like the sausage party of wsj editorial department.
Progress is inevitable, but it has to start somewhere.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 29, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 29, 2020 ---

But to me that's the equivalent of reading a typical shojo drama and saying "Where are the fights and superpowers"?

Speak like someone who never read shoujo manga.
Ever heard of Akatsuki no Yona?

 

[Konja9]

I think there should be female editors in WSJ, especially since there are many male editors in Shoujo magazines.


However, the idea that a female editor will bring a "female perspective" in the stories isn't right (although the fear of that is the reason why WSJ doesn't hire them). After all, female editors should look what is more profitable

If the creation of stories with useless female characters are the most profitable (I don't know why it would be the case), female editors would work with that too.

At the end, the quality of female characters depends of what the audience wants and writer skills. Unfortunately, a good amount of the fanbase (even female fanbase) of the WSJ don't care enough about female characters.


WSJ should hire more female editors, because it's a good opportuny of work that people is denied just because they are women.

I don't know if I'd agree with these sentiments beyond it in the ideological sense. In the practical sense, I wouldn't necessarily say femCreators are somehow masters of romance writing (leading to the stereotypical gender norms of "MEN LOVE ACTION - WOMEN LOVE ROMANCE" ). I'd rather say the creators and editors simply need to have a knowledge of how romance is handled and probably need to read or watch a wide range of romance books/novels.

The male editorial problem seems to be one of having a narrow and uninformed view of the subject matter at hand.

A female perspective could at least inform writers of
-Conversations girls actually have between each other in schools/hot baths (example...do girls really grab each others bewbies and compare sizes as they do in so many series?)
-Women empowerment

Male editors likely know the school/hot baths aren't real, but they put these due to fanservice.

A female editor wouldn't change that because it sells.