I’ve explained several times why I think it’s Dragon Force. An aside from him not stating outright I haven’t heard any evidence for why it’s not. I freely admit to no hard proof other that what’s been mentioned. Did you have hard proof that it wasn’t Dragon Force. This is my third time asking this afternoon.
Proof is that Mashima has always said explicitly when someone has entered Dragon Force. Even for Natsu no matter how many times he has done. If he Laxus had DF he would have said so.
You mean when Mira says they can’t beat them, and Skullion replies the same is true for them, and then Madmole says their strong? The understanding there is that their saying they can’t beat them In combat. I could have understood it wrong, but seems like a stretch. An since Madmole was up and moving after both attacks, neither of them have anything to brag on yet.
So how does this proves Madmole admitting defeat. Skullion retreated after seeing what Natsu did to Madmole and he did more damage to him than Elfman ever did. Madmole was moving fine as well after his fight against Elfman.
Statements beat feats when the feats contradict the statements. Like for example, feats, Hades used a higher spell against Makarov than Hades. Statements, the spell against Makarov was just a bomb. The spell against Laxus was designed to seal his movement and most mages kill themselves just trying to block it. None of which matters because it doesn’t invalidate Hades statement. Laxus still has the more impressive showing against him, he did more damage to Hades than anybody until he gave power to Natsu. An he tanks more spells than Grampa.
Statements never beats feats. Feats greater than statement. Lol Don't take things out of your ass. Show me where it says Hades cast it stop Laxus movements. That's nothing but your headcanon. Amaterasu formula 100 > Amaterasu formula 20. I hope you know how to do math. Makarov defended agains stronger version of the spell easily while Laxus was hit by a weaker one and on his knees. He never did tank more spells than Makarov as well
Ajeel, a young cocky asshole who thought he could defeat all of Ishgar alone, but lost to Elfman. The Spriggan Elfman beat is the more reputable source. Is more trustworthy than August, The King of Magic on the strength of a blow he was literally cowering from while August actually blocked the attack. Really bro? An Wahl went psycho because his scans let him calculate Laxus wouldn’t last 3 minutes or whatever his timer said, and Laxus ate everything the threw at him even with his attack.
Lol thats your argument. Magic himself was nothing more than Old Hag who was seeking attention from his father at his age. He kept saying same old phrase like a maniac his entire fight against Gildarts. He is not wise at anything.
that what i meant
everyone other than laxus die hard fans knew it was an asspull
those fans normally try to make laxus like he is written by some other auther. this forum is full of them
as for me, i had a good laugh when laxus pulled an erza against wahl
That’s definitely easy to claim in hindsight. An still a different statement than any implication I alone held the belief. An it could easily have turned out to be a family trait, or left behind spell no different author or required. Hiro clarified himself and that’s that on the matter. Classic shounen power up, asspulls with training implied but not shown. (unless you read the Dragon Slayer series) It doesn’t diminish the moment enough to be major to me. Enjoy your victory, it was well earned. An a fair price to pay for the new form it brought.
At this point all the differences in the other media has either been referenced in later arcs in source, or verbally explained by Mashima. The only exception is the crossovers as of yet.
Just like you're argument with second gen DF. There's no concrete evidence. Ajeel denies it.
PoF differs. Everyone can fight for their friends... They've been doing it this whole time. But to break meteor with one arm when all your bones are broken whenever you want? Stretch
Those ppl stupid and that one dude who says multiversal is either Jason Kieffer or an idiot.
He bested him because of motion sickness. Put em on a field and I guarantee you that's not happening.
Proof is that Mashima has always said explicitly when someone has entered Dragon Force. Even for Natsu no matter how many times he has done. If he Laxus had DF he would have said so.
So how does this proves Madmole admitting defeat. Skullion retreated after seeing what Natsu did to Madmole and he did more damage to him than Elfman ever did. Madmole was moving fine as well after his fight against Elfman.
Statements never beats feats. Feats greater than statement. Lol Don't take things out of your ass. Show me where it says Hades cast it stop Laxus movements. That's nothing but your headcanon. Amaterasu formula 100 > Amaterasu formula 20. I hope you know how to do math. Makarov defended agains stronger version of the spell easily while Laxus was hit by a weaker one and on his knees. He never did tank more spells than Makarov as well
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Lol thats your argument. Magic himself was nothing more than Old Hag who was seeking attention from his father at his age. He kept saying same old phrase like a maniac his entire fight against Gildarts. He is not wise at anything.
So, we’re still at nothing stating there is no DF for 2nd gen? Got it.
The part where his response to Skullion saying the Takeover siblings are too strong is, yeah their strong.
Go rewatch the Hades fight bro states it clear as day. An just responded to the fact it’s the anime. Laxus tanked the Amaterasu and the full power blast after he was out of magic. An still led the charge that ended Hades.
He said they are just strong nothing more which Mirajane and Elfmamn said to Skullion and Madmole in return as well. This doesn't prove anything as Skullion did the same for both Erza and Natsu and Natsu did more damage Madmole than Elfman ever did.
Go rewatch the Hades fight bro states it clear as day. An just responded to the fact it’s the anime. Laxus tanked the Amaterasu and the full power blast after he was out of magic. An still led the charge that ended Hades.
He never tanked Amatersu formula. Makarov took far stronger spell than Laxus with less damage and was still on his feats unlike Laxus who got hit by a weak version of the same spell..
That’s definitely easy to claim in hindsight. An still a different statement than any implication I alone held the belief. An it could easily have turned out to be a family trait, or left behind spell no different author or required. Hiro clarified himself and that’s that on the matter. Classic shounen power up, asspulls with training implied but not shown. (unless you read the Dragon Slayer series) It doesn’t diminish the moment enough to be major to me. Enjoy your victory, it was well earned. An a fair price to pay for the new form it brought.
At this point all the differences in the other media has either been referenced in later arcs in source, or verbally explained by Mashima. The only exception is the crossovers as of yet.
But its not hindsight claim.
For example are you still waiting for an explanation on how erza beat koyoka. Of course not
Normal people treats this bs the same.
Laxus fans just gave alot of benefits to their favorite
Sorry bro, she can't. PoF is not a super Saiyajin form you can use at will with training. It is all about circonstances. This is because Erza's power scale is so variable. Or are you claiming that Erza was in PoF stats when she was fighting Laxus in their last challenge ? You make me laugh. If so, Laxus should be dead.
Erza needs external stimulus to tap into that "Potential Power". A foe has to have her people's life in Balance. This power is not for her and she can't use it for her own. This power is for protecting someone in her heart : This is why she claimed to be Titania, Fairy queen who protect her friends, even if she has to die for.
- Vs Azuma who absorbed People's Magic and all Fairy Tail have to die if she failed.
- Vs Kyoka because she was the key to stop Face, which would nullify all magic power in the country, and her friends should die against people who used curse.
- Vs Irene because she wanted Wendy's body and then, crushed meteor saving all people again.
These are extreme circonstances that put her into extreme power stats. She can't enter that PoF while fighting a friend (Laxus), never mind how strong he is.
Erza should be "too strong" if she can use it at will. Erza is, at her own current power, around Laxus's level. Laxus is nowhere near Erza's level when she entered PoF, the same way Gajeel is far below Dragon Force Natsu.
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If you dislike Erza as exemple, take Natsu. I think he should be "too strong" as well if Dragon Force was a state he can enter at will when he wants to. Dragon Force is his climax form due to his PoF (when he saw Gray sacrificed himself to save him from memento mori // when Fairy Heart Zeleph explained he should reset the World).
Sorry bro, she can't. PoF is not a super Saiyajin form you can use at will with training. It is all about circonstances. This is because Erza's power scale is so variable. Or are you claiming that Erza was in PoF stats when she was fighting Laxus in their last challenge ? You make me laugh. If so, Laxus should be dead.
Erza needs external stimulus to tap into that "Potential Power". A foe has to have her people's life in Balance. This power is not for her and she can't use it for her own. This power is for protecting someone in her heart : This is why she claimed to be Titania, Fairy queen who protect her friends, even if she has to die for.
- Vs Azuma who absorbed People's Magic and all Fairy Tail have to die if she failed.
- Vs Kyoka because she was the key to stop Face, which would nullify all magic power in the country, and her friends should die against people who used curse.
- Vs Irene because she wanted Wendy's body and then, crushed meteor saving all people again.
These are extreme circonstances that put her into extreme power stats. She can't enter that PoF while fighting a friend (Laxus), never mind how strong he is.
Erza should be "too strong" if she can use it at will. Erza is, at her own current power, around Laxus's level. Laxus is nowhere near Erza's level when she entered PoF, the same way Gajeel is far below Dragon Force Natsu.
I’m responding to you first because it’s easiest. In literally every situation she’s encountered where she should be powerless or haxes out, she busts out POF and wins. To the point people complain it’s ruined her character. An I already mentioned that it doesn’t work against those wearing the guild
mark. There’s no argument to be had here.
But its not hindsight claim.
For example are you still waiting for an explanation on how erza beat koyoka. Of course not
Normal people treats this bs the same.
Laxus fans just gave alot of benefits to their favorite
It is a hindsight claim. You are retroactively claiming that only Laxus fanboys thought it wasn’t an asspull, which isn’t entirely accurate. There were non Laxus fans who didn’t think it was POF because of the training he mentioned and the author’s mention of Yuri.
Well, I don't agree.
- Vs Ikaruga, she unchained her heart to a resilience form : no more armors for hiding way. She was searching her true strength to reset her weakness. No PoF (but prelude to it).
- Midnight had average against her and she used analysis and counters to win. No PoF.
- Vs Kagura, she answered her anger by her determination to a resolution's battle. No PoF.
- Vs Minerva, she used second origin by anger. No PoF.
- Vs historias, she used determination to burn out ghosts. No PoF.
- Vs Ajeel, she took account of Biska. No PoF.
Anger and determination can fluctuate power stats but they are not PoF. Natsu tap into anger to grow his magic but need circonstances to climax his anger and being Dragon Force. Her true strength (PoF) is only revealed when people is about to be killed by a foe she can't face in her own strength.
I am not attacking you, I am not here for that. So I am not saiying you had bad arguments and I agree who can have your opinion, and I have mine. We can disagree and being respectful. I am ok with you.
He said they are just strong nothing more which Mirajane and Elfmamn said to Skullion and Madmole in return as well. This doesn't prove anything as Skullion did the same for both Erza and Natsu and Natsu did more damage Madmole than Elfman ever did.
He never tanked Amatersu formula. Makarov took far stronger spell than Laxus with less damage and was still on his feats unlike Laxus who got hit by a weak version of the same spell..
Prove where he is wise. He has already proven otherwise during his fight against Gildarts.
So we’re ignoring that he says “the same is true for us” as his response for Mira saying they can’t beat them? This is the first time Skullion has said he can’t beat someone, every other retreat was because his compatriots were wounded.
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You don’t really say anything here bro. He’s acknowledged as the King of Magic, he knows more magic than his father, and he’a the General of The Spriggan. Why exactly would this be the only thing he gets wrong?
Well, I don't agree.
- Vs Ikaruga, she unchained her heart to a resilience form : no more armors for hiding way. She was searching her true strength to reset her weakness. No PoF (but prelude to it).
- Midnight had average against her and she used analysis and counters to win. No PoF.
- Vs Kagura, she answered her anger by her determination to a resolution's battle. No PoF.
- Vs Minerva, she used second origin by anger. No PoF.
- Vs historias, she used determination to burn out ghosts. No PoF.
- Vs Ajeel, she took account of Biska. No PoF.
Anger and determination can fluctuate power stats but they are not PoF. Natsu tap into anger to grow his magic but need circonstances to climax his anger and being Dragon Force. Her true strength (PoF) is only revealed when people is about to be killed by a foe she can't face in her own strength.
I know that people dislike her, this is why I took Natsu as a "better" example.
I didn't see that so I apologize and agree.
I am not attacking you, I am not here for that. So I am not saiying you had bad arguments and I agree who can have your opinion, and I have mine. We can disagree and being respectful. I am ok with you.
Did I say she wins all her fights with POF? My argument, well statement really, is that Erza can use POF whenever necessary. Name me a time Erza needed POF to win and couldn’t pull it off when she tried.
I love Erza. Like I said when the chapters originally dropped, her new power ups and skills are dope and fit her character perfectly.
We all miss stuff. We’re human
I appreciate that. I’m not here to disrespect anybody either. I’d just much rather debate folks with their own opinions than ruminate on what I already think with no feedback.
Strength doesn't come from the Lacrima. Rogue and Cobra are both fodder. Lacrima prob just fixed his body by giving him dragon constitution. Not that it matters anyway, being born talented or being enchanted by a real dragon is no different to being given a lacrima. It's all just luck, you don't get any credit for it.
But its not hindsight claim.
For example are you still waiting for an explanation on how erza beat koyoka. Of course not
Normal people treats this bs the same.
Laxus fans just gave alot of benefits to their favorite
We got an explanation. It's because she's Erza.
And it is a hindsight claim, did any of us give a shit when Erza randomly pulled out SO and Nakagami for the first time? Not really. Were all of us Erza fans just giving her the benefit of the doubt like usual?
Laxus didnt have a healthy body as a kid, but got better when he got the lacrima implant. I wouldn't say he's strong only because of the implant though, since Cobra and the twin dragons aren't that strong. Laxus is Makarov's grandson, so he probably inherited the strong genes.
So we’re ignoring that he says “the same is true for us” as his response for Mira saying they can’t beat them? This is the first time Skullion has said he can’t beat someone, every other retreat was because his compatriots were wounded.
So what? He acknowledged they were strong which he did against Natsu and the others as well. You said Elfman did better against Madmole but it doesn't change the fact that Natsu did way better than him against Madmole. He damaged him way more than Natsu did. After seeing both Madmole and Kiria being beaten down, he acknowledged their strength and left.
Convinetinely doesn't post rest of the posts to prove your pain. Lol. He was downed after hitting a Hades since spell started effecting him. Makarov was completely able negate Amatersu formula much stronger than what Laxus was hit and he took no after damage as well. Nice argument by you.
You don’t really say anything here bro. He’s acknowledged as the King of Magic, he knows more magic than his father, and he’a the General of The Spriggan. Why exactly would this be the only thing he gets wrong?
King of Magic who uses a stick to fight and copy magic. That's why restored to a suicide spell as a last resort to take everyone with him. He already exposed himself against Gildarts as well. Having more magic doesn't mean he can grasp situation better than anyone lol.
So what? He acknowledged they were strong which he did against Natsu and the others as well. You said Elfman did better against Madmole but it doesn't change the fact that Natsu did way better than him against Madmole. He damaged him way more than Natsu did. After seeing both Madmole and Kiria being beaten down, he acknowledged their strength and left.
Convinetinely doesn't post rest of the posts to prove your pain. Lol. He was downed after hitting a Hades since spell started effecting him. Makarov was completely able negate Amatersu formula much stronger than what Laxus was hit and he took no after damage as well. Nice argument by you.
King of Magic who uses a stick to fight and copy magic. That's why restored to a suicide spell as a last resort to take everyone with him. He already exposed himself against Gildarts as well. Having more magic doesn't mean he can grasp situation better than anyone lol.
Skullion left because his compatriots fell, avoiding being outnumbered is a much different thing than backing off because you admit you can’t win for certain. An Madmole may have taken more damage. My point is that Elfman forced him to retreat from him, as opposed from Team Natsu.
You mean the after effects of the spell. Cause what I showed was him tanking the attack which was my point. If your arguing about status effects, he was still able to tank a supposed death blow from Hades while dealing with the Amaterasu formula and get back up and lead the charge against Hades. As opposed to countering the Amaterasu spell like Gramps did. Which brings me back to the original point which is Hades praise.
He didn’t use the stick bro, copy was a learned ability. An it wasn’t just massive power, it was copying abilities and being able to effectively use them to counter his opponents in actual combat situations that made him a threat. An his titles were still earned. I don’t see how being outfought by Gildarts undoes that in any way.
Skullion left because his compatriots fell, avoiding being outnumbered is a much different thing than backing off because you admit you can’t win for certain.
You mean the after effects of the spell. Cause what I showed was him tanking the attack which was my point. If your arguing about status effects, he was still able to tank a supposed death blow from Hades while dealing with the Amaterasu formula and get back up and lead the charge against Hades. As opposed to countering the Amaterasu spell like Gramps did. Which brings me back to the original point which is Hades praise.
You can't say you tanked a spell if you are down after few minutes if the spell started to affect you. My point was Makarov was able to defend against stronger version of the spell without getting suffering like Laxus did after few minutes.
He didn’t use the stick bro, copy was a learned ability. An it wasn’t just massive power, it was copying abilities and being able to effectively use them to counter his opponents in actual combat situations that made him a threat. An his titles were still earned. I don’t see how being outfought by Gildarts undoes that in any way.
It is a hindsight claim. You are retroactively claiming that only Laxus fanboys thought it wasn’t an asspull, which isn’t entirely accurate. There were non Laxus fans who didn’t think it was POF because of the training he mentioned and the author’s mention of Yuri.
Strength doesn't come from the Lacrima. Rogue and Cobra are both fodder. Lacrima prob just fixed his body by giving him dragon constitution. Not that it matters anyway, being born talented or being enchanted by a real dragon is no different to being given a lacrima. It's all just luck, you don't get any credit for it.
We got an explanation. It's because she's Erza.
And it is a hindsight claim, did any of us give a shit when Erza randomly pulled out SO and Nakagami for the first time? Not really. Were all of us Erza fans just giving her the benefit of the doubt like usual?
not this time. last time you caught me unaware. you will have to wait for another 100 years for that opportunity
erm, are we pretending you were indeed not foaming when erza pulled out SO even though gray clearly said she most likely already had it which is why you people thought she was just minutely ahead of natsu pre ts
fun part about nakagami, was i think it was claimed no one had magic power to wear it for last 7 years. unless she bought it from her usual one dollar shop, she most likely had it during her fairy sphere stuck period, and that is why nobody could wear it for 7 years
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All dragons and dragon slayers arent the same. then it should follow that all dragon lacrimas arent the same either. laxus lacrima could be massively stronger than others. just putting it out there
not this time. last time you caught me unaware. you will have to wait for another 100 years for that opportunity
erm, are we pretending you were indeed not foaming when erza pulled out SO even though gray clearly said she most likely already had it which is why you people thought she was just minutely ahead of natsu pre ts
fun part about nakagami, was i think it was claimed no one had magic power to wear it for last 7 years. unless she bought it from her usual one dollar shop, she most likely had it during her fairy sphere stuck period, and that is why nobody could wear it for 7 years
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All dragons and dragon slayers arent the same. then it should follow that all dragon lacrimas arent the same either. laxus lacrima could be massively stronger than others. just putting it out there
Last time? What you talking about? Not that it matters, whatever it I did then I can do again with regularity.
Yeah? No one gave a damn about Erza releasing SO(or at least compared to all the people who hated Laxus vs Wahl), most people were hyped to see Minerva get trashed. In fact in the chapter thread the vote for "best moment in the chapter" went to Erza releasing SO lol. That's right, in the chapter called LAXUS VS JURA, Erza going SO got more votes for best moment than the Laxus vs Jura fight lol. I guess it's just because the fandom favors Erza over Laxus, as usual, it's rough being a Laxus fan...
Levi's book wouldn't make much sense in that case, would it? How would anyone know that no one could where it if no one ever tried in that time period? And why would anyone write a book on it?
It could be, and a single sword in Erza's arsenal could also be stronger than every lacrima combined, but it doesn't really matter. Being born talented, not being born sick, being enchanted by a dragon, having good genes, etc, it's all luck.
Only companion that fell are Kiria and Wraith which Strauss Sibling had nothing to do. Don't why bothered brining it up as it has no weight here.
You can't say you tanked a spell if you are down after few minutes if the spell started to affect you. My point was Makarov was able to defend against stronger version of the spell without getting suffering like Laxus did after few minutes.
You can't call yourself the King of Magic if you are nothing but a cheap copy cat. Might well as call every copy magic user, the king of magic.
i think the problem is you are little bit more inclined towards one side, that is why you cant see
very mention of Yuri put it in bs category
training claim was bs from the start. laxus did not specifically train for wahl
the people who made these claims were already in laxus fan club, of course exceptions might be there
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All dragons and dragon slayers arent the same. then it should follow that all dragon lacrimas arent the same either. laxus lacrima could be massively stronger than others. just putting it out there
I’m inclined to the side because of what I’ve seen. Which is amusing because I personally think it’s telling that you seem to have a thing against Laxus.
When he had literally just revealed him and his magic type? We have no idea how many opponents he faced in the wars and on his adventures. An him training is a stated fact. They’re even a volume worth of material about it. He could easily have gotten his hands on his grandfather’s spells. Again, it’s only retroactively that you can act like these are silly notions as opposed to plausible explanations.
Same thing for this.
Occams Razor. This is a one off claim from Laxus evil father. As opposed to multiple comments from multiple sources about the kind of power that runs in the family.
What's the problem with "copying magic" that makes it worse compared to learning it?
Magic spells are just things you learn, what's the difference between his Fire Dragon Slayer Magic and Natsu's? August's Copy magic just skips the learning period.
Every single character has the ability to learn any single spell in the series; they're all just extremely specialized (and even then some characters do show a bit of variety in their kinds of magic like Laxus with Fairy Law).
August's copying magic must be, for whatever reason, specially hard to learn, or any character obsessed with strength would be trying to learn his kind of Copying magic precisely because they wouldn't have to worry about learning other kinds of magic ever again.
Other magic users able to use Copy magic throughout the manga weren't able to immediately nullify all kind of magic attack the same way August can, nor have his immense magic power that allows him to use the copied spells with the same or way more power that he experienced them.
He's the King of Magic and was an impressive character that was defeated and then killed in very silly ways because of an author who made some of the bad guys just too broken without thinking about they could possibly be defeated in a believable way.
What's the problem with "copying magic" that makes it worse compared to learning it?
Magic spells are just things you learn, what's the difference between his Fire Dragon Slayer Magic and Natsu's? August's Copy magic just skips the learning period.
Every single character has the ability to learn any single spell in the series; they're all just extremely specialized (and even then some characters do show a bit of variety in their kinds of magic like Laxus with Fairy Law).
August's copying magic must be, for whatever reason, specially hard to learn, or any character obsessed with strength would be trying to learn his kind of Copying magic precisely because they wouldn't have to worry about learning other kinds of magic ever again.
Other magic users able to use Copy magic throughout the manga weren't able to immediately nullify all kind of magic attack the same way August can, nor have his immense magic power that allows him to use the copied spells with the same or way more power that he experienced them.
He's the King of Magic and was an impressive character that was defeated and then killed in very silly ways because of an author who made some of the bad guys just too broken without thinking about they could possibly be defeated in a believable way.
To me if you are just copying someone else magic you can't be called the King of Magic. It's like me doing someone else work and getting better marks than he is. It is same as cheating although I agree that is just part part of his part like most of the spriggans were meant to be. He is different than the other copy mages because unlike others he can instantaneous copy them which previous users of this magic had. We don't even whether he can retain the magic he copies. If he can retain any magic then he wouldn't have needed Brandish to shrink his wounds. There was nothing to suggest he can retain the magic he copies. Most of them are head canons. If he can't retain the magic how can you be called the king of something.
An Wahl went psycho because his scans let him calculate Laxus wouldn’t last 3 minutes or whatever his timer said, and Laxus ate everything the threw at him even with his attack.
