One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
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• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[nik87]

The homies combined with Big Mom's ability to snatch part of someone's soul instantly like she did to one of her son's with just a touch of her hand could give her an edge.

Honestly I don't know, but my point is that despite carrying a sword, BM's not a swordsman in the sense that Shanks or Mihawk are, so she's not immediately weaker than the WSS going just by the title alone. She could still be weaker, though, I don't know. I don't have a solid opinion on her strength.
I don't know how she ranks compared to Mihawk, Kaido or Shanks.

Yeah snatching the soul is a win but that doesnt working on anyone notable. You need to be scared of her for her ability to affect your soul...
Big Mom is the same swordsman as Mihawk and Shanks but she also has a DF and DFs didnt stop anyone from being swordsmen...
Well, how they rank seems logically like this: Kaido as undisputed nr1 based on WSC and based on Oda's SBS statement, Mihawk next in line, Shanks should be next since he is Mihawk's greatest rival and last should be Big Mom.

Now all you need is the same happening to Rayleigh...

Someone who's the most skilled is also the strongest or can be the strongest.

Exactly, somehow being skilled means being weaker, "overall" to some people...

Mihawk is the BEST swordsman but will lose to BM and Shanks overall fight. IDC what Nik says.

It's not what Nik says, it's what Oda says. Shanks and Big Mom have nothing to overall win the fight against Mihawk.
It's literally the fandom who objects to Oda naming Mihawk the strongest swordsman of them all and come up with something called "overall"...

 

[Nie Li]

This is the point i want to drill down on. Big Mom uses a sword. She has used it pretty well every fight we've seen her have. Do you think Mihawk would beat her? If she is stronger than Mihawk because of all of her attributes, her strength, her durability, her Devil Fruit, and she beats him in a fight, is she then the worlds strongest swords(wo)man?

I have already addressed my opinion on characters like Big Mom:

The homies combined with Big Mom's ability to snatch part of someone's soul instantly like she did to one of her son's with just a touch of her hand could give her an edge.

Honestly I don't know, but my point is that despite carrying a sword, BM's not a swordsman in the sense that Shanks or Mihawk are, so she's not immediately weaker than the WSS going just by the title alone. She could still be weaker, though, I don't know. I don't have a solid opinion on her strength.

I don't know how she ranks compared to Mihawk, Kaido or Shanks.

I really cannot say much more about that.

I also don't see Mihawk "growing" in stature with each Zoro victory. Unless Zoro fights actual swordsmen, it doesn't say anything about Mihawk. If King fights Zoro in his Zoan form mostly, flying around shooting fire at him, then loses, that says nothing about Mihawk's strength really (I hope King is a great Swordsman and fights Zoro with that sword, using his hybrid form for extra strength. In that case, yes, Mihawk is stronger than King!).

I agree that what hypes Mihawk most power will be when Zoro defeats pure swordsmen (which is another reason why he will fight Shiryu in the future). However, even then, I think if Zoro was to defeat King while King fights in a weird Tengu+Pteranodon form with four wings and fire instead of as a swordsman, it would still hype Mihawk's power up simply because he will come later as an opponent to Zoro.

That's, of course, unless you think that when Zoro vs Mihawk happens Zoro will have already defeated stronger opponents than Mihawk and he will have an easy and uninteresting fight. I think that'd be extremely disappointing even for people who don't like Mihawk's character. If Zoro's to have a good final fight against Mihawk that answers to the hype to more than 20 years of hype (perhaps 30 at the pace we're going) then Mihawk going all out will be stronger than anyone Zoro defeats beforehand).

The way I see things with Shanks vs Mihawk is this:

Shanks stopped Kaido from going to Marineford. Shanks crew is tiny. Kaido left rather than fight.

Shanks and his tiny crew stopped the war. Akainu who moments earlier was shouting to not let a single pirate escape didn't lift a finger to go after Shanks.

Big Mom outright stated that if only she had the giants on her side she could defeat Shanks. Big Mom has a monster crew of her children who dwarf Shanks crew in size.

Now, for sure that means Shanks crew all have to be strong. but then people argue that Mihawk would be the strongest commander in the crew, which I can even agree with...but then doesn't that imply that the captain must be a monster of a man as well, someone at the pinnacle of the Yonko?

Well, as I said, my opinion is that an outcome of Shanks vs Mihawk depends on what we're talking about exactly.

- Shanks crew vs Mihawk crew? Shanks wins. I don't think Mihawk, being the loner that he is, has the power to defeat a full yonkou crew on his own. Even if, say, Shanks was to challenge Kaido's crew on his own, he would be weared down by Yonkou Commanders even if they're weaker than him and eventually killed by Kaido. Same for Mihawk. So of course I don't think Mihawk could have just stopped Kaido, but that's because he lacks a crew.

- On the other hand, I think if Shanks and Mihawk fight 1 vs 1, Mihawk will win.

I just cant see him being below Mihawk. If we even had a slight indication taht Mihawk was stronger than him in the past, maybe? But even then we don't. And Shanks became an emperor after this, after he lost his arm. Hell, he even uses his sword in his off hand, not his dominant one anymore. And yet...he's still strong enough to stop Akainu. And Kaido. And make Big Mom think twice about attacking him with her current crew.

Well, we have the indication of the WSS title that he has while "Swordsman Shanks" doesn't.
I'm not undermining Shanks: Shanks is a monster and I LOVE his character as well. All of his feats are very solid. I just haven't been told by the manga that Mihawk can't do those as well or that he's "The World's Stronger Swordsman except for Shanks and Rayleigh" or something like that.

Shanks' title means he has more power over the world and that he's a more important person than Mihawk in that sense, but that doesn't mean that Mihawk can't be stronger than him. Shanks tried to become a Yonkou and he became one. His rival Mihawk from when he had two arms wasn't interested in becoming a Yonkou and he didn't, he instead chose to become a Shichibukai for the freedom. In this particular case and taking what I just said into account, the fact that one is a Yonkou and the other a Shichibukai doesn't mean the Yonkou is a stronger fighter than the Shichibukai; just different carreer choices.

However as I have already acknowledged a couple of times this debate is a stalemate. I can say the reasons why I think of Mihawk like this and you guys can tell me why you don't agree. I could even just post it as a prediction on the prediction thread if you will. But Mihawk hasn't had enough feats to really prove if I'm right or wrong. If he's ever proved to be weaker I'll be disappointed (both in the character and in the lack of weight of the title for that to be Zoro's objective, specially if he then doesn't go and defeat Shanks as well) but I'll acknowledge it.

Thus far she's equal to Shanks and Kaido as they are held in the same regard narrative wise (the elders' comment for example) and she clashed with Kaido and they fought evenly for days. If Kaido were stronger he'd have overpowered her and beaten her but he didn't and they were portrayed as equals with their initial clash as well.

If you put it like that, that'd mean Mihawk is around her level as well, then. However, no matter how equal some characters are, there will always be a winner. The original admirals also looked like equals and indeed Akainu vs Aokiji lasted days. However, in the end, there was a clear winner who lost nothing, and a loser who lost a leg.

I think when the power and skill are around the same level, some fights (some, not every fight) can become like rock, paper, scsissors, in which some opponents have the upper hand on others because of their specific abilities. So while I'll keep defending that Mihawk is likely to be stronger than Shanks, I don't have an opinion on Mihawk vs Big Mom. Just like I said, it's not like I think Mihawk is stronger than Shanks by a lot; just stronger. I'd put them around the same tier. If that means he's also on the same tier of Kaido and Big Mom strength-wise then so be it, but being on the same tier as Big Mom doesn't guarantee a win because the fact that she holds a swords does not mean she's "a swordsman". She's more of a brute with a pretty hax ability that she can use either to outnumber the opponent with various strong elemental or physical attackers or to take the soul away from his opponent and eat it.
I won't make any bets on who's stronger between Big Mom and Mihawk.

Yeah snatching the soul is a win but that doesnt working on anyone notable. You need to be scared of her for her ability to affect your soul...
Big Mom is the same swordsman as Mihawk and Shanks but she also has a DF and DFs didnt stop anyone from being swordsmen...
Well, how they rank seems logically like this: Kaido as undisputed nr1 based on WSC and based on Oda's SBS statement, Mihawk next in line, Shanks should be next since he is Mihawk's greatest rival and last should be Big Mom.

Fair, Big Mom can be considered a swordsman, I think she did use a strong flying slashing technique against the living tree. But I just think Mihawk being a better swordsman doesn't immediately guarantee he's also superior to her additional abilities working in tandem with her swordsmanship.

However, most people here believe Shanks is the strongest Yonkou; stronger than Big Mom just with his swordsmanship. If Shanks is acknowledged stronger than Big Mom, then Mihawk, who's also a pure swordsman like him but stronger, should probably also be above Big Mom.



I don't think much more can be said on this topic tbh.

 

[nik87]

Fair, Big Mom can be considered a swordsman, I think she did use a strong flying slashing technique against the living tree. But I just think Mihawk being a better swordsman doesn't immediately guarantee he's also superior to her additional abilities working in tandem with her swordsmanship.

However, most people here believe Shanks is the strongest Yonkou; stronger than Big Mom just with his swordsmanship. If Shanks is acknowledged stronger than Big Mom, then Mihawk, who's also a pure swordsman like him but stronger, should probably also be above Big Mom.
I don't think much more can be said on this topic tbh.

Question for you and everyone else so we can avoid going in circles...
Where exactly lies the problem with Mihawk being stronger("overall") than any other swordsman like the title says?

 

[Nie Li]

Question for you and everyone else so we can avoid going in circles...
Where exactly lies the problem with Mihawk being stronger("overall") than any other swordsman like the title says?

My only "problem" are characters who aren't only swordsmen and for whom swordsmanship is more like a bonus to their other, main abilities. That's how I see Big Mom. But that doesn't mean Mihawk can't beat them.

I'm sure that any character that is only a swordsman will be proven weaker than Mihawk, even Shanks, who shouldn't be weaker by a lot.

 

[nik87]

My only "problem" are characters who aren't only swordsmen and for whom swordsmanship is more like a bonus to their other, main abilities. That's how I see Big Mom. But that doesn't mean Mihawk can't beat them.

I'm sure that any character that is only a swordsman will be proven weaker than Mihawk, even Shanks, who shouldn't be weaker by a lot.

I see, I consider swords their main ability and DFs as side abilities.
Also note that Oda never used terms like "pure swordsman", fandom came up with that one.
Another thing, I seriously doubt, if Zoro had a DF, that there would be a judge in his duel against Mihawk who would say: Listen Zolo, to become WSS you need to beat this man without relying on your devil fruit abilities... Anything goes, Oda never placed a veto on any ability...

 

[Nie Li]

I see, I consider swords their main ability and DFs as side abilities.
Also note that Oda never used terms like "pure swordsman", fandom came up with that one.
Another thing, I seriously doubt, if Zoro had a DF, that there would be a judge in his duel against Mihawk who would say: Listen Zolo, to become WSS you need to beat this man without relying on your devil fruit abilities... Anything goes, Oda never placed a veto on any ability...

Fair point, but that's because Zoro would definitely use swordsmanship as his main skill. Given his personality, he might even act as if he had no DF for his fight against Mihawk.

I don't know if anyone else uses the "pure swordsman" thing, that's just the way I randomly worded it before to differentiate characters that are only swordsmen (and thus need to be weaker than Mihawk) and characters that could be holding a sword but not rely on it that much.

Imagine a character like Kaido. Kaido isn't a swordsman and he may be stronger than Mihawk. You can give him a meito. If he beats Mihawk in a fight (with zero skill with the sword but with his overpowering strength and abilities), would it mean Kaido is a stronger swordsman than Mihawk?

 

[Kuroiyaiba]

Question for you and everyone else so we can avoid going in circles...
Where exactly lies the problem with Mihawk being stronger("overall") than any other swordsman like the title says?

Well so let's stick to Mihawk vs Whitebeard example:
Mihawk is entitled as the "world strongest" swordsman. So we can simply assume that he is, without a doubt the number one in terms of swordsmanship.
Now let's add in the title of Whitebeard: Strongest Man in the world. So at first glance, it seems to be no problem, Mihawk being the strongest swordsman but as his title suggests he has to be weaker than WB who is named the strongest man. To make matters even more complicated WB is using one of the "Supreme Grade Swords" which is technically not a sword thus WB is not regarded as a swordsman. So can You see the problem with titles I'm trying to point out here? Of course, I know that WB's title unlike Mihawk's title goes way back in time. So no need to talk about that.

 

[Nie Li]

Well so let's stick to Mihawk vs Whitebeard example:
Mihawk is entitled as the "world strongest" swordsman. So we can simply assume that he is, without a doubt the number one in terms of swordsmanship.
Now let's add in the title of Whitebeard: Strongest Man in the world. So at first glance, it seems to be no problem, Mihawk being the strongest swordsman but as his title suggests he has to be weaker than WB who is named the strongest man. To make matters even more complicated WB is using one of the "Supreme Grade Swords" which is technically not a sword thus WB is not regarded as a swordsman. So can You see the problem with titles I'm trying to point out here? Of course, I know that WB's title unlike Mihawk's title goes way back in time. So no need to talk about that.

Whitebeard technically isn't even a swordsman, as you say, because the weapon he wields, despite being a meito, is not a sword.

But, how do you know "WB's title unlike Mihawk's tigle goes way back in time"? We don't know when either of them received their titles exactly, but it was told in the vibre cards that Mihawk already got famous before the age of piracy.

 

[nik87]

and characters that could be holding a sword but not rely on it that much.

Which characters are those?

Imagine a character like Kaido. Kaido isn't a swordsman and he may be stronger than Mihawk. You can give him a meito. If he beats Mihawk in a fight (with zero skill with the sword but with his overpowering strength and abilities), would it mean Kaido is a stronger swordsman than Mihawk?

Kaido is stronger than Mihawk - WSC.
Yes it would mean that Kaido is WSS in that case but that is our made-up scenario(what if), Oda will never make it like that so imaginary scenarios are irrelevant.

Well so let's stick to Mihawk vs Whitebeard example:
Mihawk is entitled as the "world strongest" swordsman. So we can simply assume that he is, without a doubt the number one in terms of swordsmanship.
Now let's add in the title of Whitebeard: Strongest Man in the world. So at first glance, it seems to be no problem, Mihawk being the strongest swordsman but as his title suggests he has to be weaker than WB who is named the strongest man. To make matters even more complicated WB is using one of the "Supreme Grade Swords" which is technically not a sword thus WB is not regarded as a swordsman. So can You see the problem with titles I'm trying to point out here? Of course, I know that WB's title unlike Mihawk's title goes way back in time. So no need to talk about that.

Yes, their titles say that Mihawk is weaker than Whitebeard.
Supreme grade blades, not swords, since there are also spears among them.
I dont see a problem with those titles - Kaido>Whitebeard>Mihawk. Whether there is someone between Whitebeard and Mihawk can be debated ofc but it cant be a swordsman.

 

[Kuroiyaiba]

Whitebeard technically isn't even a swordsman, as you say, because the weapon he wields, despite being a meito, is not a sword.

But, how do you know "WB's title unlike Mihawk's tigle goes way back in time"? We don't know when either of them received their titles exactly, but it was told in the vibre cards that Mihawk already got famous before the age of piracy.

You are right. I guess I just remembered it incorrectly. But that was not what I wanted to point out. It was more about how titles can be misleading.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 29, 2020, Original Post Date: Jul 29, 2020 ---

Yes, their titles say that Mihawk is weaker than Whitebeard.
Supreme grade blades, not swords, since there are also spears among them.
I dont see a problem with those titles - Kaido>Whitebeard>Mihawk. Whether there is someone between Whitebeard and Mihawk can be debated ofc but it cant be a swordsman.

I was trying to highlight that you can argue about power levels for hours just based on titles and come to different conclusions anyways. Metaphorically spoken titles are thrones once conquered by the people who bear them. So to me, they do not necessarily reflect the actual individual's fighting power, and plenty of people here already mentioned that they also depend on the matchup as well as on luck. As for Mihawk, I suppose his title is valid until he loses to someone in an actual swords fight.

 

[nik87]

I was trying to highlight that you can argue about power levels for hours just based on titles and come to different conclusions anyways. Metaphorically spoken titles are thrones once conquered by the people who bear them. So to me, they do not necessarily reflect the actual individual's fighting power, and plenty of people here already mentioned that they also depend on the matchup as well as on luck. As for Mihawk, I suppose his title is valid until he loses to someone in an actual swords fight.

I take those 3 titles at face value.
I place myself in Oda's shoes and ask myself what purpose do those 3 titles serve...
The only answer would be to hype those 3 individuals in particular, more than anyone else.
Note that by being weaker than those 3, one is far from weak.
All top tiers are incredibly powerful and the gap between them is probably far smaller than we think.
Even Kaido, who is a 1vs1 champ, cant easily have the upper hand against LinLin who might be the weakest among Emperors...

 

[Kuroiyaiba]

I take those 3 titles at face value.
I place myself in Oda's shoes and ask myself what purpose do those 3 titles serve...
The only answer would be to hype those 3 individuals in particular, more than anyone else.
Note that by being weaker than those 3, one is far from weak.
All top tiers are incredibly powerful and the gap between them is probably far smaller than we think.
Even Kaido, who is a 1vs1 champ, cant easily have the upper hand against LinLin who might be the weakest among Emperors...

It's a smart move that Oda made. Because it is still arguable if the three titles can be ranked accordingly. I would agree with you since all 3 of them are creatures, being the strongest creature Kaido should be the strongest out of the three. But there is still the possibility that he ranked Kaido the strongest creature to measure him on a different scale, not comparing him to the strongest human at all. That's basically what I tried to point out.

 

[thedude]

Oh god...we are back to obsessing over the title...why do i bother...

 

[jaymizzo]

Oh god...we are back to obsessing over the title...why do i bother...

Tbf, this place gets quiet when swordbois are silent

 

[thedude]

Tbf, this place gets quiet when swordbois are silent

I prefer that to endless rehashing of the same dumb argument.

 

[AmitDS]

If you put it like that, that'd mean Mihawk is around her level as well, then. However, no matter how equal some characters are, there will always be a winner. The original admirals also looked like equals and indeed Akainu vs Aokiji lasted days. However, in the end, there was a clear winner who lost nothing, and a loser who lost a leg.

Animal farm vibes. Someone can be equal to someone else and still lose to them extreme diff. It doesn't always result in a double K.O. In some cases either party can manage to pull off an extreme diff win.

The admirals were stated to have fought evenly for 11 days. Had one been stronger they would not have been even for 11 days straight. If that's not the author telling us that they're equal then idk what is.

Well I actually I do, unlike the admirals Big Mom and Kaido have no winner in their fight and were tied for 3 days before they allied. So who's to say that Big Mom wouldn't win or it would have been a draw?

I think when the power and skill are around the same level, some fights (some, not every fight) can become like rock, paper, scsissors, in which some opponents have the upper hand on others because of their specific abilities. So while I'll keep defending that Mihawk is likely to be stronger than Shanks, I don't have an opinion on Mihawk vs Big Mom. Just like I said, it's not like I think Mihawk is stronger than Shanks by a lot; just stronger. I'd put them around the same tier. If that means he's also on the same tier of Kaido and Big Mom strength-wise then so be it, but being on the same tier as Big Mom doesn't guarantee a win because the fact that she holds a swords does not mean she's "a swordsman". She's more of a brute with a pretty hax ability that she can use either to outnumber the opponent with various strong elemental or physical attackers or to take the soul away from his opponent and eat it.
I won't make any bets on who's stronger between Big Mom and Mihawk.

The issue is that Mihawk isn't actually confirmed stronger than Shanks because that would mean he's stronger than the Yonko and he'd be the strongest pirate on the planet. So as zetsubanned said, dwelling on a title only, while ignoring everything else in the manga has its issues. Him being the WSS doesn't mean that Shanks didn't grow in power after losing his arm. Shanks became an emperor and one of the 4 strongest pirates on the planet after him and Mihawk stopped dueling. So it's not clear that Mihawk's title means he surpassed Shanks power wise. They were equals before he lost the arm and we know Shanks grew stronger after. Mihawk as well probably grew stronger after as well. Roger was equal to Whitebeard when Whitebeard was known as the World's Strongest Man so it's not odd to assume that Mihawk is equal to Shanks even though he has the WSS title and Shanks and him stopped competing.

People are free to believe whatever but I just think it's a mistake for people to assume that Mihawk. WB and Kaido are stronger than the other emperors etc. due to titles. Kaido couldn't beat Big Mom, WB couldn't beat Roger and from what we know Mihawk never beat Shanks and they've not fought since Shanks became an Emperor 6 years ago.

 

[nik87]

People are free to believe whatever but I just think it's a mistake for people to assume that Mihawk. WB and Kaido are stronger than the other emperors etc. due to titles. Kaido couldn't beat Big Mom, WB couldn't beat Roger and from what we know Mihawk never beat Shanks and they've not fought since Shanks became an Emperor 6 years ago

Does Oda really need to ruin the reputation of those characters just so the fans would believe that title holders are superior?

 

[roggie]

Since everybody agrees the top contenders are near the same level; and also realize fighters can perform differently against different opponents; and i would like to add one last point: a fighter can grow such lengths that he can end stronger than a previously largely superior opponent (eg. Luffy vs name one important enemy he fought)
We could discuss X vs Y, how would they fare in a fight between them.


Random thought: until now we have no explanation for why classify Kaido as a creature.

 

[Nie Li]

The issue is that Mihawk isn't actually confirmed stronger than Shanks because that would mean he's stronger than the Yonko and he'd be the strongest pirate on the planet.

Not the strongest pirate. The strongest individual. A pirate is a sum of himself and his crew, which is what makes Yonkous, Yonkous (as was explained a long time ago. Of course they're monsters, but it's the size and power of their crew that makes them befitting of the title of Yonkous).

Mihawk CAN be a stronger fighter in a 1vs1 than Shanks and STILL be weaker as a pirate than him. Because he has no crew, and that's a huge disadvantage.

I have gone over and over this point far too many times on a single day to do so again.

Also your line seems to imply that Shanks is the strongest Yonkou. We don't know that.

So as zetsubanned said, dwelling on a title only, while ignoring everything else in the manga has its issues. Him being the WSS doesn't mean that Shanks didn't grow in power after losing his arm. Shanks became an emperor and one of the 4 strongest pirates on the planet after him and Mihawk stopped dueling. So it's not clear that Mihawk's title means he surpassed Shanks power wise. They were equals before he lost the arm and we know Shanks grew stronger after. Mihawk as well probably grew stronger after as well.

I 100% agree with you:
Dwelling on the Yonkou title only, while ignoring everything else int he manga has its issues.

That title is the only reason for people to believe Shanks is stronger in a 1vs1 than Mihawk, despite numerous tellings of that not being true. If you want to argue them instead of just complaining about "the WSS title means nothing", I laid most of them on my previous posts from today.

Roger was equal to Whitebeard when Whitebeard was known as the World's Strongest Man so it's not odd to assume that Mihawk is equal to Shanks even though he has the WSS title and Shanks and him stopped competing.

I have also emntioned twice or thrice today that I think Mihawk is stronger than Shanks by only a little. So here it seems like what you're assuming is mostly the same I have been assuming?

People are free to believe whatever but I just think it's a mistake for people to assume that Mihawk. WB and Kaido are stronger than the other emperors etc. due to titles. Kaido couldn't beat Big Mom, WB couldn't beat Roger and from what we know Mihawk never beat Shanks and they've not fought since Shanks became an Emperor 6 years ago.

I have only been discussing Mihawk's strength and his title and I stand by the points I provided.
I have never said anything about WB's or Kaido's ranking. That was @nik87 if you want to argue his points.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 29, 2020, Original Post Date: Jul 29, 2020 ---

Not the strongest pirate. The strongest individual. A pirate is a sum of himself and his crew, which is what makes Yonkous, Yonkous (as was explained a long time ago. Of course they're monsters, but it's the size and power of their crew that makes them befitting of the title of Yonkous).

^ Just to be clear about what I just said. "The strongest individual among swordsmen". My choice of words was only to answer to your choice of words with which you implied Shanks is the strongest pirate.

 

[jaymizzo]

^ Just to be clear about what I just said. "The strongest individual among swordsmen". My choice of words was only to answer to your choice of words with which you implied Shanks is the strongest pirate.

I think this is something that we have exhausted a lot, what it actually means to be the strongest individual among swordsmen and what it means to be a swordsman as well. Swordsmanship is about skill, so its correct to assume that Mihawk is the most skilled swordsman, that shouldn't mean he is the strongest individual who carries a sword (there is more than just a sword) as that contradicts the likes of Roger, Rayleigh, Big mom etc

Also, there is absolutely no telling of Mihawk winning against Shanks. Their duels have never been given an outcome.

There is a lot going on with those titles, WB was WSM with people like Garp, Sengoku and Roger running around.
Kaido is WSC yet Big Mom who doesn't have the "strongest" title can go on par with him and gives absolutely no shits for his threats.

I guess its your opinion that Mihawk is stronger than Shanks (even by a little). I think Shanks is overall stronger by a decent margin.

@thedude I hear you it can get exhausting.

P.S. I read your post and you are classifying BM as not a swordsman because she has external abilities? Is Vista not a swordsman because of his swordstyle? Is the octopus from FI not a swordsman because he utilises poison? Is King not a swordsman because he is a DF user? Is Law not a swordsman even though he primarily relies on his sword to channel his abilities?

It gets murky real fast. Then, you have the question of, who exactly, amongst notable swordsman that you qualify, actually cares to be WSS?

You have a whole generation of pirates wanting to grow strong enough to take on the Yonkou, we have generations of Marines wanting to be Admirals, how many Swordsmen, even from a country of Swordsmen care to be known as the WSS?

On WSC, this could easily be tied to Kaidos DF - having the Dragon as the strongest creature in existence or having him as the last of an extinguished Race. It doesn't necessarily mean he could beat any other creature - he lost a few times IIRC.

WSM could also be that WB had the strongest physical body of any human being which was greatly enhanced by his DF. It doesn't mean he would beat any man alive (Roger is kind of proof of that). His title is more proven though as the Marines needed every advantage possible to take the man on (and dying).