Discussion One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[AmitDS]

I'm going to regret opening my big mouth, but how can people say that Mihawk is stronger than Shanks but not stronger than Kaido? Shanks and Kaido are at least equals. Anyone stronger than Shanks is automatically stronger than Kaido, Big Mom and Blackbeard (current). That's not how the WSS title works.

 

[AmitDS]

What happens to ones status when they take down a Yonkou? How many Supernovas are gunning for Yonkou? BB wanted to be a Yonkou, Kaido and BM wanted to become rulers.
We have F6 who want to be all stars (but previously wanted to be PK). So no, 1 guy is not the same as multiple people wanting to get to the titles I mentioned.

Also, getting to Raftel makes you PK yes but as we have seen with the Beast pirates, if you are not strong enough to survive, you get broken by those with bigger wills and power.

Wonder why the future WSS is an underling to the PK. Kind of against Zoro to follow someone who will eventually be weaker than him. But what do I know, I just appreciate Zoro as a character.

I don't think people realize that Pirate King is a title that requires one to be the strongest pirate. Well, actually it's explicitly shown with Luffy saying he can't be PK unless he beats the emperors and admirals and Roger actually being the strongest pirate, only clearly equaled by Prime WB. It's supposed to be understood, by children (who read this) that the guy who is the pirate king is the strongest pirate. Finding Raftel is the goal but to reach it you have to be capable i.e. strong enough to do so. Also to rule the seas and be the most free (Luffy said this is what PK means to him) logically one needs power or, as you said, you'd fall to stronger pirates like the flying 6 did. Idk what is up with the implicit and even the explicit being ignored in these series recently.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 1, 2020, Original Post Date: Aug 1, 2020 ---

On a side note, I think Yamato needs to have advanced haki mastery and be at least King/Queen leveled and I wonder about her being shocked about Luffy being able to remove the cuffs, crushing that expectation for me.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I don't think people realize that Pirate King is a title that requires one to be the strongest pirate. Well, actually it's explicitly shown with Luffy saying he can't be PK unless he beats the emperors and admirals and Roger actually being the strongest pirate, only clearly equaled by Prime WB. It's supposed to be understood, by children (who read this) that the guy who is the pirate king is the strongest pirate. Finding Raftel is the goal but to reach it you have to be capable i.e. strong enough to do so. Also to rule the seas and be the most free (Luffy said this is what PK means to him) logically one needs power or, as you said, you'd fall to stronger pirates like the flying 6 did. Idk what is up with the implicit and even the explicit being ignored in these series recently.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 1, 2020, Original Post Date: Aug 1, 2020 ---

On a side note, I think Yamato needs to have advanced haki mastery and be at least King/Queen leveled and I wonder about her being shocked about Luffy being able to remove the cuffs, crushing that expectation for me.

Remember, even advance CoA users can't do what Luffy just did. So there a still a chance she knows the first level of advanced CoA (Barrier Haki)

 

[M3J]

I'm going to regret opening my big mouth, but how can people say that Mihawk is stronger than Shanks but not stronger than Kaido? Shanks and Kaido are at least equals. Anyone stronger than Shanks is automatically stronger than Kaido, Big Mom and Blackbeard (current). That's not how the WSS title works.

I don't know how people can say Mihawk is stronger than Shanks point blank when one has hype in general while the other's sole hype is being the strongest swordsman, not the strongest pirate. Also don't understand the "being stronger than Shanks means being stronger than all the Yonkou" logic.

 

[nik87]

What happens to ones status when they take down a Yonkou? How many Supernovas are gunning for Yonkou? BB wanted to be a Yonkou, Kaido and BM wanted to become rulers.
We have F6 who want to be all stars (but previously wanted to be PK). So no, 1 guy is not the same as multiple people wanting to get to the titles I mentioned.

Also, getting to Raftel makes you PK yes but as we have seen with the Beast pirates, if you are not strong enough to survive, you get broken by those with bigger wills and power.

Wonder why the future WSS is an underling to the PK. Kind of against Zoro to follow someone who will eventually be weaker than him. But what do I know, I just appreciate Zoro as a character.

No single individual has taken down a Yonko so how should I know. My guess his bounty increases and gets recruited into Warlords if he wasnt one already.
The only Yonko who was taken down is Whitebeard and nobody's status was changed due to that.
Most of them are gunning to take down a Yonko, 0 of them wants to be one. When did Blackbeard want to be a Yonko? Never that I know of. BM and Kaido want to rule the world, they dont want to be a Yonko. Which of the F6 wants to be a Yonko? Not a single one. Yonko title is for all the silver medalists who failed to become PK, bar Whitebeard who wasnt interested in that childish thing(yes, he called it childish).

Sure, strength is required but Mihawk saying that being PK is tougher than beating him in no way says that you need to be stronger than Mihawk. Zoro is not Luffy's underling, he is his partner, Zoro has never seen himself as inferior to Luffy. He sees him as a captain as long as Luffy is upholding values a captain needs in Zoro's eyes. The moment those values are in the dirt, Zoro leaves the crew. Zoro doesnt follow Luffy because Luffy is stronger than him, because he isnt. You completely missed the whole point Zoro made in Water 7... He was ready to dump Luffy if he became simp who apologizes and accepts Usopp back without latter's apology, nothing to do with strength.

Also, food for thought, Mihawk himself literally can be a Yonko or PK without his power level changing at all, he needs other things to achieve those which are not related to his individual strength. If luck serves him, having Nami, Robin, Brook and Cracker in crew, Mihawk could become Pirate King, easily.
One to pinpoint the location of Raftel and sail him there, one to decipher to poneglyphs, one to steal the RP copies, one who creates biscuit army to stall any forces needed and Mihawk himself to stall any boss. That is PK crew right there.

PK > WSS, that is for sure. But the PK can be also the WSS, since Roger was fighting also with a sword. This is a shonen. In the end Luffy > all (Zoro included)

WSS>PK, that is for sure. But WSS can also be the PK, since Rogers has also found Raftel and treasure. This is shonen, the guy who protects Luffy>everyone else(Luffy included).

Luffy > Zoro.
We all know this. No point in arguing.

How do we know this?

but how can people say that Mihawk is stronger than Shanks but not stronger than Kaido? Shanks and Kaido are at least equals. Anyone stronger than Shanks is automatically stronger than Kaido, Big Mom and Blackbeard (current). That's not how the WSS title works.

Because Shanks is not stronger than Kaido either. I am literally laughing my ass off that you couldnt come to that conclusion yourself and asked how it is possible... Who said that Shanks and Kaido are equals? Manga certainly didnt and placed Kaido above everyone else.
No, anyone stronger than Shanks is not automatically stronger than Kaido. What kind of logic is that?
WSS title says that there is no stronger swordsman than Mihawk but I am sure there are people who would try to convince Oda that he is mistaken there.

"BuT HoW DoEs LuFfY BeAt SwOrDs? DuRrRr"

By eating biscuits?

I don't think people realize that Pirate King is a title that requires one to be the strongest pirate.

Absolutely not. Being the strongest pirate is not requirement to be PK. Baseless headcanon, nothing else.
You need to be strong, sure. Strongest? Not at all.

Remember, even advance CoA users can't do what Luffy just did. So there a still a chance she knows the first level of advanced CoA (Barrier Haki)

Barrier is basic flow haki, fodder like Boa sisters are capable of it...

I don't know how people can say Mihawk is stronger than Shanks point blank when one has hype in general while the other's sole hype is being the strongest swordsman, not the strongest pirate. Also don't understand the "being stronger than Shanks means being stronger than all the Yonkou" logic.

Because Oda said that Mihawk is a stronger swordsman than Shanks?
Do you know what strongest pirate means?
Who has said that being stronger than Shanks means stronger than all Yonko?
That must be headcanon of those who rank Shanks as the strongest.

 

[Ramen]

How do we know this?

Since he's the captain and has the better feats. Straightforward.

 

[nik87]

Since he's the captain and has the better feats. Straightforward.

Being captain and having better feats didnt help him beat Zoro when they were paired against each other.

 

[Ramen]

Being captain and having better feats didnt help him beat Zoro when they were paired against each other.

Zoro didn't best him either. Considering how long ago that fight was and it was before luffy knew how to truly use his DF.

Yes, Luffy with everything he has is beating Zoro.

Can you name a single crew where the captain isn't the strongest?

 

[Pirate Queen]

Zoro didn't best him either.

Yes, Luffy with everything he has is beating Zoro.

Can you name a single crew where the captain isn't the strongest?

Buggy's lol, nah I know what you mean. Your right

 

[nik87]

Zoro didn't best him either.

That's not helping your argument, it helps mine.

Considering how long ago that fight was and it was before luffy knew how to truly use his DF.

Considering how long that fight was and it was before Zoro learned how to cut steel to get through those magical flip-flops...

Yes, Luffy with everything he has is beating Zoro.

Based on what? His record of staying away from swordsmen?

Can you name a single crew where the captain isn't the strongest?

Can you name a single captain that had WSS in his crew(without being one himself)?

 

[Ramen]

That's not helping your argument, it helps mine.

Considering how long that fight was and it was before Zoro learned how to cut steel to get through those magical flip-flops...

Based on what? His record of staying away from swordsmen?

Can you name a single captain that had WSS in his crew(without being one himself)?


BS? Is that what you call logic these days?

So do you believe Zoro is the strongest SH?

Put Mihawk in Rayleighs crew he wouldn't have been above Roger.

Feats? Luffy
Position? Luffy

Simple.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 1, 2020, Original Post Date: Aug 1, 2020 ---

BS? Is that what you call logic these days?

Given that we have characters like Garp then.......

 

[nik87]

So do you believe Zoro is the strongest SH?

I got to agree with what Oda has shown and that's equals, despite Zoro having everything to be stronger than him. Surely Oda wont put MC in shadow of MC2.

Put Mihawk in Rayleighs crew he wouldn't have been above Roger.

Let's stay away from "what if" scenarios because they mean nothing. Fact is nobody had WSS under himself, clearly different situation from any other crew.

Feats? Luffy

He has no feats against Zoro other than those in WP which have shown them equal.

Position? Luffy

Position doesnt make Luffy stronger than Zoro, he was ready to take over that position if Luffy didnt have CoC.

Given that we have characters like Garp then.......

Maybe one day we will see that legendary Garp's magic of going against swords, on panel...

 

[roggie]

I find it strange to say Mihawk is superior to Shanks but when the 2 met and talked about an interesting pirate and Shanks asked if he came to fight, Mihawk answered asking why he would want to settle things with a man with one arm.

I mean, you are welcome to look for other translations, but what i understand from that is they didn't come to an agreement of who is stronger.

 

[nik87]

I find it strange to say Mihawk is superior to Shanks but when the 2 met and talked about an interesting pirate and Shanks asked if he came to fight, Mihawk answered asking why he would want to settle things with a man with one arm.

I mean, you are welcome to look for other translations, but what i understand from that is they didn't come to an agreement of who is stronger.

Sure, it is implied that their duels in the past were unresolved and that is apparently enough for people to say that Shanks is stronger despite Oda himself saying that Mihawk is by naming him the strongest swordsman in the world... If Mihawk is stronger by 0.0000001%, he is stronger, doesnt mean Shanks is weak.
Also, the correct translation response is "as if I would settle things with one-armed has-been" which implies that Shanks has been a worthy challenge in the past but not anymore.

 

[Ramen]

Sure, it is implied that their duels in the past were unresolved and that is apparently enough for people to say that Shanks is stronger despite Oda himself saying that Mihawk is by naming him the strongest swordsman in the world... If Mihawk is stronger by 0.0000001%, he is stronger, doesnt mean Shanks is weak.
Also, the correct translation response is "as if I would settle things with one-armed has-been" which implies that Shanks has been a worthy challenge in the past but not anymore.

But that's according to Mihawk. Mihawk calling Shanks a "one arm has been" is objectively false.

 

[nik87]

But that's according to Mihawk. Mihawk calling Shanks a "one arm has been" is objectively false.

If it's false why isnt he fighting him then?

 

[Ramen]

If it's false why isnt he fighting him then?

Because he doesn't want to? Shanks clearly doesn't care what Mihawk wants to do.

You don't become a yonko with no DF, one arm, stop a whole war, clash with Kaido, etc if you're a has been.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 1, 2020, Original Post Date: Aug 1, 2020 ---

Mihawk looks at Vista as a strong swordsman but now Shanks is "has been? "

 

[nik87]

has been.

LoL, he is mocking Shanks with that, however, obviously he thinks he isnt a better challenge than with two arms.
I said several times that Shanks isnt weak because he is weaker than Mihawk, the difference is minimal.

 

[Ramen]

LoL, he is mocking Shanks with that, however, obviously he thinks he isnt a better challenge than with two arms.
I said several times that Shanks isnt weak because he is weaker than Mihawk, the difference is minimal.

Well Mihawk can go think that if he wants.

 

[King Moe]

Help Roger to beat Rocks Crew with his fists. Oda make MA more likely strongest fighting style in the series as end of the day when you lose your weapon or don't have one, you fight with your body. Plus not all Legends are mastery of weapon and only rely on them in fights as we can see this many times in different top tiers.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 1, 2020, Original Post Date: Aug 1, 2020 ---

Buggy's lol, nah I know what you mean. Your right

Buggy D. Clown haven't use 0000000000000.1% of his power. Man took on many top tiers and best them or survive. Even Mihawk was powerless against his abilities. He is stronger than he looks, he just have lax nature that top tiers have when living the good life .