Shounen Time Paradox Ghostwriter by Kenji Ichima & Tsunehiro Date

[Stivie]

lol.. denial.. denial.. denial..
debut on rank 9/15, only better than Zipman, Agrivity, GOTW.. good company you got
than got 9/12.. already bottom 5 in es


how old are you?

And how old are you ?

 

[James Rye]

Guys, your age is shown in your Avatar information. You are 31 years and 27 years old. You're all getting old, get over it and find some lawn to shoo the kids away from. :P

The old man is Teppei

Yeah, that was obvious with all the hints. The only he could have made it more obvious would have been by introducing himself.
Now I wonder if we do a timeloop thingie and keep repeating this whole shtick with a 2nd alternative timeline or if this does stick with the current Teppei and Aino didn't die due overwork but just fainted and can still be saved. Because so far Teppei sucks at "beating" Aino even when she is ten years younger than her alternative timeline or "original" timeline self who actually died. So that plan is bust and Aino is a recordholder with 30 times first place which just sounds stupid tbh. Like when was the last time we had a series being first place more than ten times in a row? XD

Also I dislike we got another timeskip. Just last chapter Aino had her first chapter out of her new series and this one we go all the way to 30th chapter of Anima. We don't even talk about Teppei and WK for all we know he got sacked from WSJ! And hell for a series about manga this hardly ever talks about manga or the series which are so "hyped" by everyone. In Bakuman we at least got some real in-sight into the respective series of the mangakas as well as their artstyle and how creating manga actually works here we just get guilt, a timemachine and some dubious plan from an alternative timeline Teppei telling current Teppei to "beat" Aino because that will somehow save her because obviously he was able to figure that out in his original timeline where she died. Right now it just feels like a mess that keeps jumping around. I would have rather prefered a Bakuman like series but with outsider Aino as MC who learns how to draw manga and create a story on her own with us watching over her and Teppei as the rival who keeps copying her series by using his timemachine which is kept secret until Aino finds out that she died in the original timeline and that her rival is trying to save her life and then they try to figure out how to avoid that fate.

 

[Wookitake]

I understood that we were not seeing the actual timeline, with her making Anima, but actually the previous timeline in which she was making White Knight.
At least since the page where we have her editor and her alone (12 onwards).

I liked what you proposed! Even though I'd have liked to this one to keep the structure it had after Teppei found out what happened, your idea would have some nice twists as well, people would enjoy. Maybe in another timeline that is what happens

 

[James Rye]

I am pretty sure they were talking about Anima still being first 30 times in a row as WK according to Teppei did not even manage to do that in the original timeline and that he was quite close with his own rankings to original Aino's WK series, like 3rd instead of 2nd which can be attributed to the different series as competition right now and in ten years from then. The alternative timeline Aino had become even better considering Teppei never managed to overtake her new series even once.

Thanks, I think it would have been a nice twist if the readers had seen everything from Aino's perspective like "this guy Teppei is as good if not better than me, I am going to compete and win against him!" to "Why are his ideas so close to mine? Are we really thinking alike?" to "He stole my work! He's not a rival! He's a thief! But how did he do that?" to finally "Wait? My rival was trying to save my life the whole time and he got my work with a timemachine?" would have taken probably anyone by surprise or most even if you do give a few hints here and there as many would rather believe a villain Rival stealing ideas from a poor loner genius girl than the farfetched timemachine theory. Aino's perspective would have been more interesting as more stuff would have been left in mystery and Teppei as character would have come over less as whiny and guilty-driven as more as cunning and ambitious to until his real character of being worn out, exhausted, riddled with guilt and conviction of still doing the right thing. Like at the start he could have been shown as a genuine mentor, a kind rival, a friendly supporter to mid-way become a cunning fox, an evil smiling bastard who "enjoys" (from the reader's perspective seeing it from Aino's POV) Aino failing to win against him, a ruthless bastard who clearly uses Aino's fresh ideas one-to-one but uses his position as senior and famous mangaka to ensure nobody challenges him of a crime to until the confirmation of his timemachine and trying to prevent a future in which Aino dies.
It would be interesting to basically have two storylines of which one is mostly hidden until Teppei has to reveal it to Aino to avoid worse and then both storylines merging together into one to create a new future in which the until then not knowing of her own demise MC can prevent her own downfall.

But alas, we didn't.

 

[Stivie]

I see that the way TPGW is treated by the fact that people complain about plagiarism.
If Ashita no joe was published today it would be controversial too, after all the protagonist does not follow the rules of the box at the beginning and it takes a long time for him to do the right thing.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 21, 2020, Original Post Date: Jul 21, 2020 ---

I am pretty sure they were talking about Anima still being first 30 times in a row as WK according to Teppei did not even manage to do that in the original timeline and that he was quite close with his own rankings to original Aino's WK series, like 3rd instead of 2nd which can be attributed to the different series as competition right now and in ten years from then. The alternative timeline Aino had become even better considering Teppei never managed to overtake her new series even once.

Thanks, I think it would have been a nice twist if the readers had seen everything from Aino's perspective like "this guy Teppei is as good if not better than me, I am going to compete and win against him!" to "Why are his ideas so close to mine? Are we really thinking alike?" to "He stole my work! He's not a rival! He's a thief! But how did he do that?" to finally "Wait? My rival was trying to save my life the whole time and he got my work with a timemachine?" would have taken probably anyone by surprise or most even if you do give a few hints here and there as many would rather believe a villain Rival stealing ideas from a poor loner genius girl than the farfetched timemachine theory. Aino's perspective would have been more interesting as more stuff would have been left in mystery and Teppei as character would have come over less as whiny and guilty-driven as more as cunning and ambitious to until his real character of being worn out, exhausted, riddled with guilt and conviction of still doing the right thing. Like at the start he could have been shown as a genuine mentor, a kind rival, a friendly supporter to mid-way become a cunning fox, an evil smiling bastard who "enjoys" (from the reader's perspective seeing it from Aino's POV) Aino failing to win against him, a ruthless bastard who clearly uses Aino's fresh ideas one-to-one but uses his position as senior and famous mangaka to ensure nobody challenges him of a crime to until the confirmation of his timemachine and trying to prevent a future in which Aino dies.
It would be interesting to basically have two storylines of which one is mostly hidden until Teppei has to reveal it to Aino to avoid worse and then both storylines merging together into one to create a new future in which the until then not knowing of her own demise MC can prevent her own downfall.

But alas, we didn't.

If you are not enjoying it, then you should criticize those who detonated the manga because of plagiarism, and did not take advantage of the things that the story had to offer.
It is not the fault of the author, no one could imagine that Japanese readers would have such a childish reaction out of nowhere.

 

[James Rye]

I don't think Ashita no Joe would be very controversial simply due the fact that boxing ain't that big of a deal to many people and their personal lives. Mangas, aka Imagination and Ideas how are are a big thing to anyone reading manga as a hobby and the thought of someone stealing someone else's work is rightly something to take offense at.

I honestly couldn't care less about the reason why the Japanese audience dislike this series. To me its real flaws lie not in its plagiarism, which is an interesting grey and black moral area, but the MC being outdone by Aino's character despite her few appearances, hardly any creation of a real character cast (the editors and assistants could have been one, but they were just there and then gone) outside of Teppei and Aino, the "mangaka" part being hardly mentioned compared to the timemachine part and ofc the timeskips just being lazy ways to get quickly to the results of the many storylines without actually seeing how those results really came to be.
Like show us why the Editors decided to have Anima be in 1st place for over thirty issues in a row, just that it is "good" cannot be reason enough, was it the people votes or their comments or what was it that made them give a new series the spotlight for over half a year? Show us how Teppei plans the battle scenes or story plottwists being revealed as in art choice, expected reader reaction, earlier hinting, etc. when he is on his own. Show us how important the work of the assistants actually is like it was done in Bakuman. Explain to us how and when a TOC ranking can be seen as influenced by readers and when by editors. Just DO something. Do something that makes us care for both of the characters, the story and ofc their own work, their manga creations. Because right now stuff is "just happening" because it does but it is not shown why or how it matters.
There is a lot this story could do better to be more interesting to me, personally, and plagiarism hardly is in the top ten of my worries about it. If other people see it differently, let them be. No reason to get worked up over something you cannot change anyway, Stivie, no reader in Japan will care about your expressed opinion here and the ones of us who does read it here have heard it many times already, so yeah, we get it, but if you wanna challenge that mindset, go to the Japanese boards with its many many TPG threads and defend the series over there in Japanese. Here it is just starting to annoy me to see you repeat yourself over and over again. I get you're upset about it but to act like the mangaka has no fault at what happened to this series is not doing it justice either. After all before the results of the first chapter and the readers impressions of it were told the mangaka should have already been at chapter 3 or 4 or 5 and the problems didn't start after those chapters but in my opinion right after the first chapter with Teppei having no friend as supporter who knows the same as he does, the whole mangaka tricks and ways of working not clearly shown or explained, the focus of Teppei's guilt over and over again to cast him in a sympathetic light when all he did was come across as annoying and hypocritical as he kept doing what he said he hated doing and other stuff I won't bother repeating.

Face it, the autor of this series had an interesting idea but he failed to capture his readers not only because some or many of them dislike the plagiarism but also due not creating a likeable MC, a memorable cast, an "endgoal" that wasn't just "I wanna create a manga everyone enjoys reading" from the start and so on. If it does get axed, which I hope it won't but it might, or if it gets finished by the mangaka earlier than intended because he was frustrated with the response to his work, then it can still work as a learning experience for him like the failed series did for Horikoshi until his hit of MHA: An interesting idea alone is not enough to create a successful series, it is just one part of it and his other parts to the idea were inadequate in my opinion.

 

[Stivie]

I don't think Ashita no Joe would be very controversial simply due the fact that boxing ain't that big of a deal to many people and their personal lives. Mangas, aka Imagination and Ideas how are are a big thing to anyone reading manga as a hobby and the thought of someone stealing someone else's work is rightly something to take offense at.

I honestly couldn't care less about the reason why the Japanese audience dislike this series. To me its real flaws lie not in its plagiarism, which is an interesting grey and black moral area, but the MC being outdone by Aino's character despite her few appearances, hardly any creation of a real character cast (the editors and assistants could have been one, but they were just there and then gone) outside of Teppei and Aino, the "mangaka" part being hardly mentioned compared to the timemachine part and ofc the timeskips just being lazy ways to get quickly to the results of the many storylines without actually seeing how those results really came to be.
Like show us why the Editors decided to have Anima be in 1st place for over thirty issues in a row, just that it is "good" cannot be reason enough, was it the people votes or their comments or what was it that made them give a new series the spotlight for over half a year? Show us how Teppei plans the battle scenes or story plottwists being revealed as in art choice, expected reader reaction, earlier hinting, etc. when he is on his own. Show us how important the work of the assistants actually is like it was done in Bakuman. Explain to us how and when a TOC ranking can be seen as influenced by readers and when by editors. Just DO something. Do something that makes us care for both of the characters, the story and ofc their own work, their manga creations. Because right now stuff is "just happening" because it does but it is not shown why or how it matters.
There is a lot this story could do better to be more interesting to me, personally, and plagiarism hardly is in the top ten of my worries about it. If other people see it differently, let them be. No reason to get worked up over something you cannot change anyway, Stivie, no reader in Japan will care about your expressed opinion here and the ones of us who does read it here have heard it many times already, so yeah, we get it, but if you wanna challenge that mindset, go to the Japanese boards with its many many TPG threads and defend the series over there in Japanese. Here it is just starting to annoy me to see you repeat yourself over and over again. I get you're upset about it but to act like the mangaka has no fault at what happened to this series is not doing it justice either. After all before the results of the first chapter and the readers impressions of it were told the mangaka should have already been at chapter 3 or 4 or 5 and the problems didn't start after those chapters but in my opinion right after the first chapter with Teppei having no friend as supporter who knows the same as he does, the whole mangaka tricks and ways of working not clearly shown or explained, the focus of Teppei's guilt over and over again to cast him in a sympathetic light when all he did was come across as annoying and hypocritical as he kept doing what he said he hated doing and other stuff I won't bother repeating.

Face it, the autor of this series had an interesting idea but he failed to capture his readers not only because some or many of them dislike the plagiarism but also due not creating a likeable MC, a memorable cast, an "endgoal" that wasn't just "I wanna create a manga everyone enjoys reading" from the start and so on. If it does get axed, which I hope it won't but it might, or if it gets finished by the mangaka earlier than intended because he was frustrated with the response to his work, then it can still work as a learning experience for him like the failed series did for Horikoshi until his hit of MHA: An interesting idea alone is not enough to create a successful series, it is just one part of it and his other parts to the idea were inadequate in my opinion.

Colleague all that you're criticizing is just a background, the most important thing is time travel and the fact that the whole jump manga has a fast start, it's not just TPGW, Kimetsu no yaiba has been through this and only slowed down after mount natagumo.
And another, I am fully aware that my opinion does not matter to the Japanese, but I will not censor myself and be silent no matter where I am.
If my opinion is bothering you I feel much more I will continue to criticize what I think is wrong.
And more if ashita no joe, if it was published today there would be controversies, yes. But not because of the box in itself, but because of Joe's attitudes.
The fact that the author did not capture the public on account of the MC or any other technical aspect, is not even the problem, if the manga is canceled because of these things I would not be criticizing as much as I am not even talking about it. But the problem I'm criticizing is the issue of the manga being canceled just because of the theme, and not because of anything more plausible.

 

[TyVip]

The Old Man = Teppei doesn't make much sense though?

Teppei is 25, Aino is 17? currently in this timeline

So unless Tepei from the other timeline is 60 and Aino is 7

 

[Stivie]

The Old Man = Teppei doesn't make much sense though?

Teppei is 25, Aino is 17? currently in this timeline

So unless Tepei from the other timeline is 60 and Aino is 7

time travel anything is possible.
He may be the 50-year-old Teppei of the future who traveled to prevent aino's death, nothing is impossible.

 

[Wookitake]

I am pretty sure they were talking about Anima still being first 30 times in a row as WK according to Teppei did not even manage to do that in the original timeline and that he was quite close with his own rankings to original Aino's WK series, like 3rd instead of 2nd which can be attributed to the different series as competition right now and in ten years from then. The alternative timeline Aino had become even better considering Teppei never managed to overtake her new series even once.

Oh yeah, that's right! Damn, so it really was another time-skip (or at least showed one reality in which Teppei fails again).
I want to see what happens now. Do we get to see old-Teppei sending messages from the future?

Thanks, I think it would have been a nice twist if the readers had seen everything from Aino's perspective like "this guy Teppei is as good if not better than me, I am going to compete and win against him!" to "Why are his ideas so close to mine? Are we really thinking alike?" to "He stole my work! He's not a rival! He's a thief! But how did he do that?" to finally "Wait? My rival was trying to save my life the whole time and he got my work with a timemachine?" would have taken probably anyone by surprise or most even if you do give a few hints here and there as many would rather believe a villain Rival stealing ideas from a poor loner genius girl than the farfetched timemachine theory. Aino's perspective would have been more interesting as more stuff would have been left in mystery and Teppei as character would have come over less as whiny and guilty-driven as more as cunning and ambitious to until his real character of being worn out, exhausted, riddled with guilt and conviction of still doing the right thing. Like at the start he could have been shown as a genuine mentor, a kind rival, a friendly supporter to mid-way become a cunning fox, an evil smiling bastard who "enjoys" (from the reader's perspective seeing it from Aino's POV) Aino failing to win against him, a ruthless bastard who clearly uses Aino's fresh ideas one-to-one but uses his position as senior and famous mangaka to ensure nobody challenges him of a crime to until the confirmation of his timemachine and trying to prevent a future in which Aino dies.
It would be interesting to basically have two storylines of which one is mostly hidden until Teppei has to reveal it to Aino to avoid worse and then both storylines merging together into one to create a new future in which the until then not knowing of her own demise MC can prevent her own downfall.

But alas, we didn't.

I really loved your idea, lol. And I'd bet some editor in WSJ must have thought of the same (or even the creator of it) but decided the rout we are getting. Or, at least, the rout that we would get normally (if there was no rushing, as I think it is happening).

 

[SharkBait]

time travel anything is possible.
He may be the 50-year-old Teppei of the future who traveled to prevent aino's death, nothing is impossible.

yeah we have a machine thats send jump issues to the past, whose to say teppei cant JUMP WORLD LINEs and TIMES Steins;Gate style

 

[Forsaken6]

Well, I don't oppose to the Old-Teppei theory but I miss the sense, if we assume that the old man (which is quite old at the time Aino is 7) is Teppei, it means he himself has come back in time, because the age difference between them is merely 7/8 years. So when Aino meet the old man, or there were no Teppei in the timeline or it would be around dreamin' to be a mangaka while he was 14/15 old. We are talkin about time machine, but if he can move in time he just have to come back to when he gave the Jumps and stop her o else, why to made up such a complex plan? Maybe the messenger man can't move through time but can communicate only.
I feel this chapter was meant to show something about the "Two of Kind" relationship between Teppei and Aino

I just want... a lot of people to enjoy what I draw

My dream...is to entertain all of humanity with my manga too!

Those were their "main" goals as Mangaka but...now Teppei just want to be good enough to beat Aino's Anima and we have seen that even Aino has a different target, as much important to led her to death when forgotten.

Well, at least that's my opinion hope can discuss more

 

[Konja9]

Colleague all that you're criticizing is just a background, the most important thing is time travel and the fact that the whole jump manga has a fast start, it's not just TPGW, Kimetsu no yaiba has been through this and only slowed down after mount natagumo.
And another, I am fully aware that my opinion does not matter to the Japanese, but I will not censor myself and be silent no matter where I am.
If my opinion is bothering you I feel much more I will continue to criticize what I think is wrong.
And more if ashita no joe, if it was published today there would be controversies, yes. But not because of the box in itself, but because of Joe's attitudes.
The fact that the author did not capture the public on account of the MC or any other technical aspect, is not even the problem, if the manga is canceled because of these things I would not be criticizing as much as I am not even talking about it. But the problem I'm criticizing is the issue of the manga being canceled just because of the theme, and not because of anything more plausible.

The thing is you don't know if the plagiarism is the main reason why this manga doesn't reach an audience in Japan (if it is cancelled). Maybe you saw some people complain about it in a Japanese forum, but that's not enough to say that this is the main reason.

In my opinion, the MC is the main problem of this manga. I don't really care about that guy at all.

Honestly, even in this forum, many praised this manga just for its potential. Not because of the story that was told, but because of the story that could be told in the future. That is not always enough for readers.

 

[Stivie]

The thing is you don't know if the plagiarism is the main reason why this manga doesn't reach an audience in Japan. Maybe you saw some people complain about it in a Japanese forum, but that's not enough to say that this is the main reason.

In my opinion, the MC is the main problem of this manga. I don't really care about that guy at all.

Honestly, even in this forum, many praised this manga just for its potential. Not because of the story that was told, but because of the story that could be told in the future. That is not always enough for readers.

If the protagonist were the problem, no one would be arguing, everyone would have accepted and moved on.

Besides, this question of the protagonist only came as an excuse to alleviate the injustice of the Japanese, there are several manga that the protagonist is bad, but they are still successful.

I still see a lot of people praising the story being told. The world is not limited to just this forum.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 29, 2020, Original Post Date: Jul 29, 2020 ---

In addition, I have seen several manga as good protagonists that have been canceled. So I think you guys overestimate the role of a protagonist.

 

[Konja9]

If the protagonist were the problem, no one would be arguing, everyone would have accepted and moved on.

Besides, this question of the protagonist only came as an excuse to alleviate the injustice of the Japanese, there are several manga that the protagonist is bad, but they are still successful.

I still see a lot of people praising the story being told. The world is not limited to just this forum.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 29, 2020, Original Post Date: Jul 29, 2020 ---

In addition, I have seen several manga as good protagonists that have been canceled. So I think you guys overestimate the role of a protagonist.

I was just mentioning my opinion about MC, who is my biggest problem with the manga, but not the only one.

Of course, I know there are succesful manga with bad protagonists and failure manga with good protagonistas. It all depends if the story could reach an audience.

My problem is that you think the only reason why this manga could fail is that the audience can't tolerante the topic. It is as if you think it is impossible that other readers simply find this story uninteresting and boring (which is my case).


As I said, you may read japanese forums where people have problems with the plagiarism topic, but you don't know if these people are a majority.

Maybe there are many japanese readers who wouldn't have problem with the plagiarism topic, but they don't find the story interesting.

 

[Stivie]

I was just mentioning my opinion about MC, who is my biggest problem with the manga, but not the only one.

Of course, I know there are succesful manga with bad protagonists and failure manga with good protagonistas. It all depends if the story could reach an audience.

My problem is that you think the only reason why this manga could fail is that the audience can't tolerante the topic. It is as if you think it is impossible that other readers simply find this story uninteresting and boring (which is my case).


As I said, you may read japanese forums where people have problems with the plagiarism topic, but you don't know if these people are a majority.

Maybe there are many japanese readers who wouldn't have problem with the plagiarism topic, but they don't find the story interesting.

I don't think so, of course you may find the story uninteresting. But that is not what I am seeing in this case. If it were like any other manga that was in this TPGW situation I would also be saying the same thing.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 29, 2020, Original Post Date: Jul 29, 2020 ---

As I said before, over and over again, if it was just that they didn't find the story interesting. I criticize that lm only complains about plagiarism.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 29, 2020 ---

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/408128768947781632/738017561228345364/IMG_20200729_205734.jpg

 

[SharkBait]

Wow I thought Aino would have just fainted, not died completely. With the microwave melting and teppei vanishing, I'm guessing he's going back to before she got the notice her story would get a series.

Also I think the subtle development of Sasaki carrying the series with his own storyline and still maintaining a top 2 position is great.

I imagine the true goal is to, always stay ahead of Aino or to get her to have a paradigm shift in thought?

 

[Stivie]

I said something was going to happen in chapter 12.

 

[Wookitake]

One day I really want to know if this was the pace the author wanted from the beginning or not.

 

[Monox D. I-Fly]

One day I really want to know if this was the pace the author wanted from the beginning or not.

Most likely not, I guess. Chapter 1-7 felt super slow while the next chapters felt super fast. It's as if there's no normal pacing in this manga.