One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Ramen]

I honestly don't buy smoker having admiral potential in him. Smoker got to VA almost as a middle aged man. His haki came presumably not long after the timeskip started. Smoker certainly has room to grow but.... admiral seems like a huge stretch when the last thing we saw from him puts him beneath law or vergo, 2 people who were decidedly not even YC level. And not even top 3 yonko commanders... just YC in general.

Coby and helmepo have more potential than smoker and could actually reach admiral considering how weak they were when the series started and that 2 years after that they are competent haki users....

Wasn't Jozu a top 3 commander? I believe Doffy would've beaten him eventually. I can see him being the 3rd option on Yonko crews.

 

[Nie Li]

Law was getting his ass beat until Smoker helps him. It took more teamwork to get by him since Smoker save his heart for him.

You're admitting Vergo only lasted against Law because he had his heart, which is a huge plot-induced disadvantage. Smoker was useful against the plot point, not as a fighter against Vergo. Law demolished Smoker, then Vergo demolished Smoker too, and then Law demolished Vergo. Then Doflamingo demolished Smoker, and soon after Law lost against Doflamingo but not without dealing major damage (damage that would have been lethal if not for his DF recovery abilities) to him.

So yeah, Smoker is a weakling currently while Law isn't as much.

Then why are you disagreeing on that then? Sounded like you were as I didn't say he didn't' lose to those guys, but just saying he will have importance and be stronger later in the series, not just EOS. Knowing Oda, losing a fight won't mean you are weakling or won't get stronger as that isn't how it works with him. I am just stating points, but you guys take offense too much on things when state something that I agree with you, but add logical conclusion. He isn't a weakling nor he won't be able to keep up later is what I am stating.

But he is currently a weakling. The fact that he will likely become stronger in the future changes nothing about that. We cannot talk about what he will become as if it was the current fact.
If you want to say "despite how much of a weakling he was the last time we saw him, he will become stronger and contend with the MCs, so we can't say he's a weakling because he will become stronger", then you must also say "Zoro is stronger than Kaido because he will become stronger than Rayleigh and Mihawk in the future as the story progresses, even if right now he's a weakling compared to them". See how it does not hold up?

 

[King Moe]

Legit no one was saying he won't be stronger later. Just now he's considered weak in the NW.

He isn't weak right now as he gotten since PH as it's illogical to say he stay same level back then. If Law came back stronger from his Doffy's defeat twice, then Smoker stronger than he was back then.

 

[Nie Li]

I honestly don't buy smoker having admiral potential in him. Smoker got to VA almost as a middle aged man. His haki came presumably not long after the timeskip started. Smoker certainly has room to grow but.... admiral seems like a huge stretch when the last thing we saw from him puts him beneath law or vergo, 2 people who were decidedly not even YC level. And not even top 3 yonko commanders... just YC in general.

Coby and helmepo have more potential than smoker and could actually reach admiral considering how weak they were when the series started and that 2 years after that they are competent haki users....

I'm just being optimist about him because of how much I like his character, but yeah, his chances to become that strong look grim.

 

[Ramen]

He isn't weak right now as he gotten since PH as it's illogical to say he stay same level back then. If Law came back stronger from his Doffy's defeat twice, then Smoker stronger than he was back then.

Just because you got stronger doesn't mean you can compete.

Dozens of characters are tiers above.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 17, 2020, Original Post Date: Aug 17, 2020 ---

You're admitting Vergo only lasted against Law because he had his heart, which is a huge plot-induced disadvantage. Smoker was useful against the plot point, not as a fighter against Vergo. Law demolished Smoker, then Vergo demolished Smoker too, and then Law demolished Vergo. Then Doflamingo demolished Smoker, and soon after Law lost against Doflamingo but not without dealing major damage (damage that would have been lethal if not for his DF recovery abilities) to him.

So yeah, Smoker is a weakling currently while Law isn't as much.


But he is currently a weakling. The fact that he will likely become stronger in the future changes nothing about that. We cannot talk about what he will become as if it was the current fact.
If you want to say "despite how much of a weakling he was the last time we saw him, he will become stronger and contend with the MCs, so we can't say he's a weakling because he will become stronger", then you must also say "Zoro is stronger than Kaido because he will become stronger than Rayleigh and Mihawk in the future as the story progresses, even if right now he's a weakling compared to them". See how it does not hold up?

It's crazy to think how strong he was when first introduced. I have no doubt Luffy would low diff him with G4 currently.

 

[Nie Li]

Anyway. The thing is that Smoker used to be stronger than the MCs, by a lot, and he went from that to considerably weaker. Even if he keeps becoming stronger and relevant it's clear that he's not keeping up with them.

 

[King Moe]

You're admitting Vergo only lasted against Law because he had his heart, which is a huge plot-induced disadvantage. Smoker was useful against the plot point, not as a fighter against Vergo. Law demolished Smoker, then Vergo demolished Smoker too, and then Law demolished Vergo. Then Doflamingo demolished Smoker, and soon after Law lost against Doflamingo but not without dealing major damage (damage that would have been lethal if not for his DF recovery abilities) to him.

So yeah, Smoker is a weakling currently while Law isn't as much.


But he is currently a weakling. The fact that he will likely become stronger in the future changes nothing about that. We cannot talk about what he will become as if it was the current fact.
If you want to say "despite how much of a weakling he was the last time we saw him, he will become stronger and contend with the MCs, so we can't say he's a weakling because he will become stronger", then you must also say "Zoro is stronger than Kaido because he will become stronger than Rayleigh and Mihawk in the future as the story progresses, even if right now he's a weakling compared to them". See how it does not hold up?

Well right now is 'Wano' and pretty sure he gotten stronger since back in PH, so to hold onto factor he still weak since then isn't good to hold up when we haven't' seen his performance yet. If we can go by how much Oda values him and others in last movie, don't think we seen last of him and he is already back strong as he is.

Also your example there doesn't make sense especially again pushing Zoro-narrative when we talking about Smoker. Let's not make this Zoro talk anymore after just coming out of one.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 17, 2020, Original Post Date: Aug 17, 2020 ---

Just because you got stronger doesn't mean you can compete.

Dozens of characters are tiers above.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 17, 2020, Original Post Date: Aug 17, 2020 ---

It's crazy to think how strong he was when first introduced. I have no doubt Luffy would low diff him with G4 currently.

Yeah he will compete. Someone will be Luffy's Garp to his Roger, Smoker is one and probably be able to compete just like Kidd and Law to Luffy now even with his G4.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 17, 2020 ---

Anyway. The thing is that Smoker used to be stronger than the MCs, by a lot, and he went from that to considerably weaker. Even if he keeps becoming stronger and relevant it's clear that he's not keeping up with them.

Agree to Disagree, he will be back stronger and compete with them. Wouldn't doubt him out like that at all.

 

[Ramen]

In the end, Smoker is a weakling. He isn't a top 30 character right now.

 

[Nie Li]

Well right now is 'Wano' and pretty sure he gotten stronger since back in PH, so to hold onto factor he still weak since then isn't good to hold up when we haven't' seen his performance yet. If we can go by how much Oda values him and others in last movie, don't think we seen last of him and he is already back strong as he is.

Also your example there doesn't make sense especially again pushing Zoro-narrative when we talking about Smoker. Let's not make this Zoro talk anymore after just coming out of one.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 17, 2020, Original Post Date: Aug 17, 2020 ---

Yeah he will compete. Someone will be Luffy's Garp to his Roger, Smoker is one and probably be able to compete just like Kidd and Law to Luffy now even with his G4.

You know that just because I mention Zoro's character to make what is known as a reductio ad absurdum doesn't mean I'm making the talk about him, right? I literally opened no topic about him, I only showed you how your train of thought in this case makes no sense by applying the same logic to Zoro.

Smoker dropped out of the competition in PH.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 17, 2020 ---

And I'm dropping out of the Smoker topic.

Smoker has clear feats that make him subpar to current standards. He will become stronger but he should be far from Luffy's current strength and he will only get further left behind in the future. Whenever he appears and fights again we will talk about any new feats that he has, but so far, we can only talk about how hard he was demolished in PH by three different people.

 

[Ramen]

You know that just because I mention Zoro's character to make what is known as a reductio ad absurdum doesn't mean I'm making the talk about him, right? I literally opened no topic about him, I only showed you how your train of thought in this case makes no sense by applying the same logic to Zoro.

Smoker dropped out of the competition in PH.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 17, 2020 ---

And I'm dropping out of the Smoker topic.

Smoker has clear feats that make him subpar to current standards. He will become stronger but he should be far from Luffy's current strength and he will only get further left behind in the future. Whenever he appears and fights again we will talk about any new feats that he has, but so far, we can only talk about how hard he was demolished in PH by three different people.

I miss Enel. If he had armament haki, he'd be a massive threat.

 

[nik87]

If Zoro kills Kaido I will be laughing for 24 hours.
The idea that everyone was wrong is too funny.

 

[kkck]

Wasn't Jozu a top 3 commander? I believe Doffy would've beaten him eventually. I can see him being the 3rd option on Yonko crews.

Doflamingo caught him with his strings but... that's pretty much it. In a more normal fight I don't give doflamingo a chance tbh. We saw how doflamingo performed against gear 4 and how cracker performed against gear 4... Doflamingo falls short of top 3 YCs.

 

[Nie Li]

I miss Enel. If he had armament haki, he'd be a massive threat.

Me too! He was a beast and had the strongest CoO-related power so far. Even as he was he would have earned a sweet name for himself if he lived on the surface world (I think Oda said he would have been worth 500.000.000 at the time if he hadn't been from the sky islands).

I'm sure he will come back eventually and that whatever he found on the Moon will make him stronger one way of the other.

 

[King Moe]

You know that just because I mention Zoro's character to make what is known as a reductio ad absurdum doesn't mean I'm making the talk about him, right? I literally opened no topic about him, I only showed you how your train of thought in this case makes no sense by applying the same logic to Zoro.

Smoker dropped out of the competition in PH.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 17, 2020 ---

And I'm dropping out of the Smoker topic.

Smoker has clear feats that make him subpar to current standards. He will become stronger but he should be far from Luffy's current strength and he will only get further left behind in the future. Whenever he appears and fights again we will talk about any new feats that he has, but so far, we can only talk about how hard he was demolished in PH by three different people.

If that was the case, movie wouldn't have given him big role over many others if Smoker was out of Oda's vision now. He isn't just your mindset, but not his. Smoker will be back stronger and in competition. Highly doubt we see last of him and his fights for future progress as well. He will be strong closely to Luffy as being next Garp of his generation, it is going to happen. Losing battles doesn't mean your out of the running like that and we going to see development of him later on into the story.

Don't take defeats seriously if current stuff says otherwise on his process right now.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I miss Enel. If he had armament haki, he'd be a massive threat.

And if he lost the God complex and became more of a cautious fighter

 

[King Moe]

In the end, Smoker is a weakling. He isn't a top 30 character right now.

I beg to differ on that and currently not right now. Again we can agree to disagree on matter at hand for this.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I beg to differ on that and currently not right now. Again we can agree to disagree on matter at hand for this.

Where is smoker in your top 30? Lol

 

[Ramen]

I beg to differ on that and currently not right now. Again we can agree to disagree on matter at hand for this.

mmmmk

If he's not in the bottom half of 25-30, you're lying to yourself.

And if he lost the God complex and became more of a cautious fighter

He'd be an admiral level for sure. He's cockiness leave him with too many openings.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 17, 2020, Original Post Date: Aug 17, 2020 ---

Me too! He was a beast and had the strongest CoO-related power so far. Even as he was he would have earned a sweet name for himself if he lived on the surface world (I think Oda said he would have been worth 500.000.000 at the time if he hadn't been from the sky islands).

I'm sure he will come back eventually and that whatever he found on the Moon will make him stronger one way of the other.

500,000,000 bounty at that time was insane since there were those with bounties below 100,00,000.

Like @Pirate Queen said, with armament haki and no god complex, I would out him on the level of the OG admirals for sure.

 

[Nie Li]

And if he lost the God complex and became more of a cautious fighter

Well, if he comes back with no armament haki and he starts reacting to people being able to hit him with his famous meme-face I'll be so let down. lol

To be fair, even if people with armament can hit him, at least armament shouldn't protect them from his electricity the way Luffy was just 100% immune to it.

 

[Pirate Queen]

+30 characters undoubtedly stronger than Smoker @King Moe and I didn't even try...

Dragon
4 Revo Commanders + Ivan
Kuma
Mihawk
Hancock
Weevil
Doflamingo
Mariah
Law
Akainu
Aokiji
Kazan
Garp
Sengoku
Shanks
Ben
Lucky
Yassop
Teach
Shirts
Big Mom
Katakuri
Kaido
King
Marco
Jozu
Izo
Kidd
Luffy
Zoro
Jinbei