One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Nie Li]

Again it's most possible theory and while true Haki effect could go away if original user is no longer holding it, but if another individual with Haki can still give it natural effect. We have to wait and see on Black Blades on how they work more, but it's not 'impossible' canon theory knowing we know how Black Blades are made.

Black Blades remain black even a century after their user (Ryuma) died, so if you agree that haki shouldn't remain on it for that long, then they're not full time haki imbued. If held by a haki user, of course they could be imbued with haki, since they could imbue any blade with haki.

Either way, it's all just a theory, so it doesn't matter, you cannot use your theory to say that "every slash from Mihawk has haki because Yoru is black", because that's not proven nor suggested.

Don't use 'headcannons'. That's against the rules nowadays. If you can't take this in calm approach, then don't try debating in emotions and talk in calm nature. If so, don't act aggressively when we speak as just because I disagree your points and say my piece, isn't me coming at you with anger or upset the same way.

You have not made me lose my calm and I certainly was not aggressive: You used headcanon in your argument (what you said about black blades, not as a theory but used as a plotpoint). It's not an insult, it's a definition of using unproving theories as facts in a debate.

If he supposedly have hardest durability of all, they should be worry on taking him down naturally. I guess I can see that, but still don't think his DF is without weakness to how to damage the Diamond though especially in the certain areas.

I'm not saying there are no ways to defeat him. He even lost an arm in the war (although, just like Marco, he was caught off guard and there was kairoseki involved). But if we're talking about body durability (Diamond Fruit + arguably strong CoA) then he seems to be the sturdiest. However, he would have been easy to defeat even on Marineford just by breaking the ice under his feet, while Whitebeard, someone less sturdy, was a monster whose talents combined (DF, CoA, CoC, speed, spearwielding, etc) were obviously much greater than those of his subordinates.[/QUOTE]

 

[King Moe]

Black Blades remain black even a century after their user (Ryuma) died, so if you agree that haki shouldn't remain on it for that long, then they're not full time haki imbued. If held by a haki user, of course they could be imbued with haki, since they could imbue any blade with haki.

Either way, it's all just a theory, so it doesn't matter, you cannot use your theory to say that "every slash from Mihawk has haki because Yoru is black", because that's not proven nor suggested.


You have not made me lose my calm and I certainly was not aggressive: You used headcanon in your argument (what you said about black blades, not as a theory but used as a plotpoint). It's not an insult, it's a definition of using unproving theories as facts in a debate.


I'm not saying there are no ways to defeat him. He even lost an arm in the war (although, just like Marco, he was caught off guard and there was kairoseki involved). But if we're talking about body durability (Diamond Fruit + arguably strong CoA) then he seems to be the sturdiest. However, he would have been easy to defeat even on Marineford just by breaking the ice under his feet, while Whitebeard, someone less sturdy, was a monster whose talents combined (DF, CoA, CoC, speed, spearwielding, etc) were obviously much greater than those of his subordinates.

[/QUOTE]

Alright then, we keep inconclusive about situation until more information about it then. I doubt Mihawk won't use Haki this entire time as he does make lesson on Zoro to prevent your blade from breaking if you use Haki. Doesn't mean he is using full power, but can he still using it enough to not let his sword break the best he can.

I stop using headcannon talk after goldb states it's against the rules now, I haven't use headcannon for long awhile since. You should stop abide on the new rules too. You can say my point is wrong, but stating 'headcannon' is more offensive from what they told me.

Did he actually lost an arm? I am skeptical as we haven't seen his full body since last time we saw him? There been debate about what happen to him afterwards and where exactly is he. Do you think anyone in series could break his body or at least Diamonds? Who you think is on that (Don't mention Mihawk)?

 

[Ramen]

stop using headcannon talk after goldb states it's against the rules now, I haven't use headcannon for long awhile since. You should stop abide on the new rules too. You can say my point is wrong, but stating 'headcannon' is more offensive from what they told me.

I don't mean to get involved in this conversation as I don't really care but you just saying you don't use headcanon is in of itself a headcanon. You may choose to believe something and think it's 100% correct but since there is little feats, your opinion is just as much headcanon as @Moegara and what his opinion.

In the end with debates like this, it's all subjective and in the end remains headcanon.

 

[King Moe]

I don't mean to get involved in this conversation as I don't really care but you just saying you don't use headcanon is in of itself a headcanon. You may choose to believe something and think it's 100% correct but since there is little feats, your opinion is just as much headcanon as @Moegara and what his opinion.

In the end with debates like this, it's all subjective and in the end remains headcanon.

Nah, I mean word 'headcannon', not that you choose to believe or not. I was told by mods stating headcannons is an 'offensive' term now we can't use anymore despite we not using it for ill-talk, but from how goldb told me, we can't use it anymore.

 

[goldb]

I stop using headcannon talk after goldb states it's against the rules now, I haven't use headcannon for long awhile since. You should stop abide on the new rules too. You can say my point is wrong, but stating 'headcannon' is more offensive from what they told me.

Did he actually lost an arm? I am skeptical as we haven't seen his full body since last time we saw him? There been debate about what happen to him afterwards and where exactly is he. Do you think anyone in series could break his body or at least Diamonds? Who you think is on that (Don't mention Mihawk)?

LOL why am I being brought up in this? but no, goldb didn't say it was against the rules. Here is what goldb said:

The word itself is perfectly [fine], the intent behind the word is the issue. In your case it was seen as insulting, so it was removed.

 

[Nie Li]

Alright then, we keep inconclusive about situation until more information about it then. I doubt Mihawk won't use Haki this entire time as he does make lesson on Zoro to prevent your blade from breaking if you use Haki. Doesn't mean he is using full power, but can he still using it enough to not let his sword break the best he can.

When did I say Mihawk has never used haki? We were talking about a ranged attack: there's no risk of his supreme grade sword breaking form using a ranged non-haki imbued attack.

You claimed that the attack must had haki in it "because it's a black blade". I told you that's not true: We don't know if he used or didn't use haki, because it being a black blade doesn't necessarily mean that there was haki on it.

That is all.

I stop using headcannon talk after goldb states it's against the rules now, I haven't use headcannon for long awhile since. You should stop abide on the new rules too. You can say my point is wrong, but stating 'headcannon' is more offensive from what they told me.

I'll ask, but I'm pretty sure it's about context rather than the word in itself.

Did he actually lost an arm? I am skeptical as we haven't seen his full body since last time we saw him? There been debate about what happen to him afterwards and where exactly is he. Do you think anyone in series could break his body or at least Diamonds? Who you think is on that (Don't mention Mihawk)?

Yes, Jozu lost an arm to Aokiji.

He was frozen and the arm fell off.

Without using tricks like kairouseki or freezing him? Yes, I do believe that man can. But of course, that's unproven and only my opinion.

Also Whitebeard with his DF vibrations, but I guess that's a trick.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 28, 2020, Original Post Date: Sep 28, 2020 ---

LOL why am I being brought up in this? but no, goldb didn't say it was against the rules. Here is what goldb said:

Ah, I guessed right then.

 

[Ramen]

LOL why am I being brought up in this? but no, goldb didn't say it was against the rules. Here is what goldb said:

Goldb has turned into Juvia and speaks third person? Masaka!!!

 

[Nie Li]

Goldb has turned into Juvia and speaks third person? Masaka!!!

Of all the people you could have compared him to. LoL

 

[albertwv]

Fair point. Tbh I stopped watching anime. The overall arc might make it clear in the end.

P.s. Katakuri vs Snakeman animation was awesome though

Honestly same, Wano anime is full of rainbow trash. Zolo vs Killer fight was not OP original, that is sad. Katakuri vs Snakeman was the best fight in a long time. I only watch the anime for the fights. Sanji vs Drake was wack in animation and honestly, only Sanji fans think Sanji > Drake in that fight.

Didn't really failed as Page One didn't return after that, so think miscommunication on scene with Oda as Oda never mention him back until Fire Festival in weeks later in the series. Plus regardless PO still lost the fight since he couldn't overpower Sanji at all just the same with Drake. This pretty much confirmed he is more above T6H and more YC lvl given developments in manga and him with his ongoing fight with King.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 27, 2020, Original Post Date: Sep 27, 2020 ---

He still defeated Drake as Full Zoan is most durable state for DF user of Ancient Zoan, so to knock him out like that without RS shows Sanji is strong and capable fighter without RS. He doesn't need it for sake of power since his power is still his own.

Dude, WHAT "ongoing" fight with King?! LOL youre the only one who thinks that. Is like saying Franky is still gonna fight BM (alone). They both had only one small altercation, King threw Sanji like a rag doll and made Sanji take off his suit. Your only basis on the fight is that they both can fly. Sanji never knocked down Drake in the manga. Manga over anime anytime when it comes down to facts.

 

[LadyVados]

By all appearances no one in the manga has ever displayed the sheer power required to actually even slightly chip kairoseki... It's why it's effective in impel down level 6 in spite of the fact that prisoners there are absurdly dangerous. Back at impel down we saw it contain even jinbe, a non devil fruit user. Big mom was also effectively contained by it (though as a devil fruit user it'd weaken her). Oden was a nigh yonko level fighter and he was also presumable contained by kairoseki shackles. Overall it's fair to say that kairoseki >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everyone. I don't think even jozu approaches kairoseki in terms of endurance. That would make the guy literally invulnerable to pretty much any form of physical damage, with or without haki. I suppose he could be thrown around but he wouldn't exactly take damage from it.

Except Kairoseki was hyped up by saying that it was as hard as diamond (if anything diamond should be given the benefit of doubt, since the statement could easily be hyperbole)

That’s the thing, I don’t think anyone in the verse can damage Jozu conventionally, most top tiers could still beat him easily since they have ‘tricks’ as @Moegara put it such as fire, freezing, internal vibrations, internal destruction haki, etc.

 

[kkck]

Except Kairoseki was hyped up by saying that it was as hard as diamond (if anything diamond should be given the benefit of doubt, since the statement could easily be hyperbole)

That’s the thing, I don’t think anyone in the verse can damage Jozu conventionally, most top tiers could still beat him easily since they have ‘tricks’ as @Moegara put it such as fire, freezing, internal vibrations, internal destruction haki, etc.

It really depends on how oda wants to play with the series' physics... It's entirely possible that diamond in this series is supposed to be that indestructible though generally I'd lean towards skepticism on such a thing. Add to that, with kairoseki the implication would appear to be that it would be more than capable of resisting any of those techniques which deal unconventional damage. As in resisting fire, ice, internal vibrations... Otherwise it just wouldn't do the stuff we have seen it do. How could kairoseki be effective for level 6 prisoners if internal destruction was enough to overcome it? Of course, internal destruction is a relatively rare skill but kairoseki just wouldn't be reliable if this was the case. Meanwhile we saw that it was enough to pin down big mom....

 

[LadyVados]

It really depends on how oda wants to play with the series' physics... It's entirely possible that diamond in this series is supposed to be that indestructible though generally I'd lean towards skepticism on such a thing. Add to that, with kairoseki the implication would appear to be that it would be more than capable of resisting any of those techniques which deal unconventional damage. As in resisting fire, ice, internal vibrations... Otherwise it just wouldn't do the stuff we have seen it do. How could kairoseki be effective for level 6 prisoners if internal destruction was enough to overcome it? Of course, internal destruction is a relatively rare skill but kairoseki just wouldn't be reliable if this was the case. Meanwhile we saw that it was enough to pin down big mom....

If the top tier has internal destruction he can just bypass Jozu’s diamond skin and attacks his organs directly. If she has fire then she can just roast him inside his invulnerable skin, etc. Attacking the soft human inside not the indestructible diamond.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 28, 2020, Original Post Date: Sep 28, 2020 ---

Apparently this translates to 2 armed Shanks being as strong as Prime WB ?

 

[kkck]

If the top tier has internal destruction he can just bypass Jozu’s diamond skin and attacks his organs directly. If she has fire then she can just roast him inside his invulnerable skin, etc. Attacking the soft human inside not the indestructible diamond.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 28, 2020, Original Post Date: Sep 28, 2020 ---

Apparently this translates to 2 armed Shanks being as strong as Prime WB ?

The fruit would make the entirety of jozu into diamond as far as I can tell, not just his skin. Otherwise when his skin transforms we would be able to see what's immediately under it.

 

[LadyVados]

The fruit would make the entirety of jozu into diamond as far as I can tell, not just his skin. Otherwise when his skin transforms we would be able to see what's immediately under it.

Disagree, I think it’s only an outer layer.

 

[Deleted member 169696]

Apparently this translates to 2 armed Shanks being as strong as Prime WB ?

Where does it say that? I don't see it.

 

[Nie Li]

Disagree, I think it’s only an outer layer.

To be fair, we should await for further explanation on it to be 100% sure, but the way he "becomes diamond" instead of just "creating diamonds" seems to suggest that his paramecia allows him to switch before being a normal human being and a being like Mr.1 or Luffy, entirely made out of some inorganic material.

 

[HereNThere]

Hmm, yes, I too agree that insert message.

 

[Nie Li]

Hmm, yes, I too agree that insert message.

I don't know what you are on about, my friend.

 

[LadyVados]

Where does it say that? I don't see it.

That’s what someone claimed to me

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 28, 2020, Original Post Date: Sep 28, 2020 ---

To be fair, we should await for further explanation on it to be 100% sure, but the way he "becomes diamond" instead of just "creating diamonds" seems to suggest that his paramecia allows him to switch before being a normal human being and a being like Mr.1 or Luffy, entirely made out of some inorganic material.

Then how was he able to leave half of his face untransformed ?

 

[Nie Li]

That’s what someone claimed to me

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 28, 2020, Original Post Date: Sep 28, 2020 ---

Then how was he able to leave half of his face untransformed ?

For she same reason that he would have done that if it was only his skin that transformed: Because he's able of partial body transformation.