Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2020] - Discussion and ToC Talk

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Shinuki no Reborn

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MANGAHELPERS "TOC" POLL ISSUE #51 - VOTING!​

The poll for issue #51 is now open, vote for your favorite chapters of the week clicking HERE!

Alongside the release of Sakamoto Days, the extra series this week are:

-Dragon Ball Super 66
-Boruto: Naruto Next Generations 52
-Ghost Reaper Girl 10


Good Votes!
 
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Halloween

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Moderator Notice:
Henceforth, I will be deleting posts that complain about Weekly Shonen Jump having too many/not enough gag/battle/exorcism/sports/etc series.

These posts are not insightful, and do not meaningfully contribute to this thread. Also, this decision is not up for discussion, so posts discussing this decision will also be deleted.~ Halloween
 
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Ryuusei

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呪 僕 O マ ブ S C D 破 C B 夜 C 僕 あ 灼 ぼ チ 高 ア 森 A 仄 ぼ 次号カラー ヒロアカ アンデラ 夜桜 約ネバ 道産子 GIGA 岸本先生が描くコラボポスター 爆豪クリアファイル
Jujutsu Kaisen (Cover & LCP)
My Hero Academia
One Piece
Mashle
Black Clover
Sakamoto Days (CP)
Dr. Stone
Magu-chan: God of Destruction (CP)
Build King
Mission: Yozakura Family
Me & Roboco
Ayakashi Triangle (CP)
Shakunetsu no Niraikanai
We Never Learn
Chainsaw Man
Koukousei Kazoku
Undead Unluck
Moriking
Agravity Boys
Honomieru Shounen
Bokura no Ketsumei

Issue #1
Cover & LCP: My Hero Academia
CP: Undead Unluck, Mission: Yozakura Family, The Promised Neverland, Dosanko Gyaru wa Namaramenkoi

GIGA Preview
Collab poster by Kishimoto
Bakugou clear file
 
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WyldViolet

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There’s been several responses correcting the user who stated it, though. So it’s not going unchecked.

In fact, every time it’s stated, it usually ALWAYS gets corrected, especially here.
As it should be imo.
This is the kind of place that people (used to) take (more) seriously as I've often brought up. We shouldn't be perpetuating myths like that.
Certainly we can have fun, but we shouldn't be unintentionally misleading those who don't know any better.
I honestly love that we still have knowledgeable, passionate, and confident enough users to not let it go unchecked.
 

Halloween

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As it should be imo.
This is the kind of place that people (used to) take (more) seriously as I've often brought up. We shouldn't be perpetuating myths like that.
Certainly we can have fun, but we shouldn't be unintentionally misleading those who don't know any better.
I honestly love that we still have knowledgeable, passionate, and confident enough users to not let it go unchecked.
“We” aren’t intentionally misleading anyone, though. It was one user who’s not even a regular in here.

And it was *immediately* shot down, by several users. Sure, outside of this website it’s perpetuated a lot, but this isn’t something that’s a problem on this website specifically.
 

WyldViolet

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“We” aren’t intentionally misleading anyone, though. It was one user who’s not even a regular in here.

And it was *immediately* shot down, by several users. Sure, outside of this website it’s perpetuated a lot, but this isn’t something that’s a problem on this website specifically.
I said unintentionally.
But it's not a problem because we don't let it become a problem here. We root out misinformation as soon as anyone brings it up which results in many users browsing here, both posters and lurkers to learn in the process and have it more unlikely to happen in the future (especially as many users here tend to be long-time lurkers prior to posting).
and I'm not saying anyone is being intentionally misleading, I'm just saying that if we were to be lazy and do things like refer to shonen and seinen as genres and whatnot simply for accessible communication, we are being as bad as forneverworld.
 
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tirakai

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We had sex scenes in Jigokuraku which is shonen and thats the only one we know. Im sure theres other obscure examples out there
Despite the name, Shonenjump+ doesn't really seem to be just for a shounen demographic.

Most stuff there does cater to that audience, but it's also got explicitly shoujo series like Boys over Flowers 2 and World's End Harem Britannia, as well as series with big sex scenes in addition to stuff from Young Jump like Oshi no Ko.
 

Halloween

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Speaking of misconceptions that are constantly perpetuated, which would you peeps say are the most prevalent?

Also, to keep this more on topic, it has to be WSJ misconceptions specifically.
 

WyldViolet

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Speaking of misconceptions that are constantly perpetuated, which would you peeps say are the most prevalent?

Also, to keep this more on topic, it has to be WSJ misconceptions specifically.
Other than the shonen/seinen nonsense, I also mentioned how many people will misattribute any popular series to Shonen Jump because they aren't aware it's not the only shonen magazine in existence. I don't know how many people I've met convinced that Fairy Tail was a Jump series.
 

Halloween

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Other than the shonen/seinen nonsense, I also mentioned how many people will misattribute any popular series to Shonen Jump because they aren't aware it's not the only shonen magazine in existence. I don't know how many people I've met convinced that Fairy Tail was a Jump series.
Yes, that’s another one. Actually, it reminds me how people in the west aren’t aware that Marvel and DC are separate companies.

I think another major one is that Bleach was cancelled. Hell, that one is still stated, even when evidence is shown to the contrary. It’s flat earth levels of dumb.
 

savethecat

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Other than the shonen/seinen nonsense, I also mentioned how many people will misattribute any popular series to Shonen Jump because they aren't aware it's not the only shonen magazine in existence. I don't know how many people I've met convinced that Fairy Tail was a Jump series.
Remember getting into an argument at my college with someone who successfully convinced the entire class that My Hero Academia was from the same creator as Gurren Lagann and Kill La Kill.
 

Reading Somethin'

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Are people seriously discussing "Soft Seinen" hahahahaha
It's a 4chan meme that I think started because of the "Hunterchad" memes. Yeah, there's practically no difference between Seinen and Shonen other than arbitrary business decisions.
Speaking of misconceptions that are constantly perpetuated, which would you peeps say are the most prevalent?

Also, to keep this more on topic, it has to be WSJ misconceptions specifically.
Everything popular is Jump. I've seen it way too many times. It's always amusing that people just refuse to google stuff.

What we recently discussed that decline = cancellation no matter the series.

Hunter x Hunter owes its' success to the 2011 anime.

Lastly, "My favorite series doesn't sell like it should which means that declining birthrate, physical is dying, etc. are to blame!"
 

FireFantasyVI

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I liked watching JJK and HQ today but what really stole the show for me was Dai. I feel it did a really good job of capturing the essence of the series, and I'm super excited to see certain moments animated later on. The short flashbacks before the meat of the episode had me hooked already. It's a long series and assuming it's a full adaptation I have my doubts about keeping the quality up but for a first episode I was pretty satisfied. The music and art direction felt right out of DQ too
 

KagamiKuroko

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Speaking of misconceptions that are constantly perpetuated, which would you peeps say are the most prevalent?

Also, to keep this more on topic, it has to be WSJ misconceptions specifically.
Dragon Ball is where all the tropes used in modern battle manga originated
 

WyldViolet

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Dragon Ball is where all the tropes used in modern battle manga originated
Yeah, this one weirds me out. Especially given if you look at the progression of Dragon Ball, its tonal shifts seem directly influenced by the rise of Saint Seiya after it debuted. In fact, I recall an interview with a director for the second anime who stated directly that the change in title and tone for the second anime was a response by how popular Seiya had gotten.
I feel Saint Seiya out of any other manga from that era really set the tropes that 21st century series would ape.
 

Newkerzy

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Dragon Ball is where all the tropes used in modern battle manga originated
Yeah, this one weirds me out. Especially given if you look at the progression of Dragon Ball, its tonal shifts seem directly influenced by the rise of Saint Seiya after it debuted. In fact, I recall an interview with a director for the second anime who stated directly that the change in title and tone for the second anime was a response by how popular Seiya had gotten.
I feel Saint Seiya out of any other manga from that era really set the tropes that 21st century series would ape.
I don’t think that’s a misconception, though? Nearly every battle shonen mangaka would state their direct influence would be from Dragon Ball. While SS probably influenced DB, it was the latter that popularized much of the tropes prevalent in shonen manga. So most, if not all, credits would go to DB. In that case, a statement saying that most common tropes in shonen manga came from DB wouldn’t be considered false either.
 

WyldViolet

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I don’t think that’s a misconception, though? Nearly every battle shonen mangaka would state their direct influence would be from Dragon Ball. While SS probably influenced DB, it was the latter that popularized much of the tropes prevalent in shonen manga. So most, if not all, credits would go to DB. In that case, a statement saying that most common tropes in shonen manga came from DB wouldn’t be considered false either.
I do agree, however Saint Seiya debuted after Dragon Ball though which makes it a weird situation.
Dragon Ball in its initial state was quite different than the manga it became later on. Sure it quickly became more and more action oriented as it went along, however starting with the Piccolo arc the series definitely experienced a bit of tonal shift that coincided with Saint Seiya's debut and popularity boom.
Saint Seiya not only influenced manga after it, but also manga that were already running at the time it debuted.
 
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savethecat

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Speaking of misconceptions that are constantly perpetuated, which would you peeps say are the most prevalent?

Also, to keep this more on topic, it has to be WSJ misconceptions specifically.
- the TOC is a ranking system based on votes. Still see this as mostly common opinion on the internet

- The “ranks”, in the TOC represent what people thought about the chapters from 7 weeks ago

- Attack On Titan was suppose to be in Shonen Jump, but the Jump editors turned it down because Eren wasn’t enough like Goku or Luffy

- “Shonen Jump cancels too many series nowadays and don’t give series’ a chance to breathe. One Piece didn’t become good until the Arlong Arc. If One Piece came out today, Jump would have axed it at chapter 12” (ppl thinking that early axes is a recent concept in Jump, not realizing that Jump has been heavy handed with its axe for decades)

- “Dragon Ball was suppose to end at the Cell Saga. But Jump kept pushing Toriyama to keep doing more Dragon Ball, so that’s why we got the Buu Saga”( ppl will also say this with the Frieza Saga, andeven the Pilaf Saga sometimes)

- “Naruto was suppose to end soon after Naruto defeated Pain, but Jump wanted Kishimoto to extent it for more arcs”

- “Bleach was suppose to end after Ichigo defeated Aizen. But Jump wanted Bleach to keep going, so that’s why Kubo continued with the Fullbringer arc”

- A series goes to Shonen Jump+ when editorial doesn’t think it’s good enough for the main magazine

- Kimetsu No Yaiba was a flop in Shonen Jump until it was saved by Ufotable and good animation

- “Some authors dumb down their series and make them generic in the beginning on purpose, so they can capture a large audience. Once ppl latch on they start making it more complex. This is the only way to survive in modern Jump”
 
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Neala897

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- the TOC is a ranking system based on votes. Still see this as mostly common opinion on the internet
I dont think toc based only on votes but saying it doesnt take it into account means that Shueisha straight up lying about how important qestionnaires are. I am not that good with japanese but even I can tell that in every doc that I watch there was accent about how important they are.
 

savethecat

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I dont think toc based only on votes but saying it doesnt take it into account means that Shueisha straight up lying about how important qestionnaires are. I am not that good with japanese but even I can tell that in every doc that I watch there was accent about how important they are.
The questionnaires are definitely important.

But there are people that legitimately believe...

“This week My Hero Academia came in first place so it had the most votes. Jujutsu Kaisen came in second place, so it had the second most votes”.

When in actuality the votes are just for the editors to see what is holding reader interest. The TOC order likely doesn’t matter much outside of seeing where a new series is on it.

The TOC likely also takes into account the importance of the arc, and chapters running.
I personally believe MHA, Chainsaw Man, and JJK have been nearing the top because they’re all going through mega important story arcs right now.
 

Petko Metko

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Yeah, this one weirds me out. Especially given if you look at the progression of Dragon Ball, its tonal shifts seem directly influenced by the rise of Saint Seiya after it debuted. In fact, I recall an interview with a director for the second anime who stated directly that the change in title and tone for the second anime was a response by how popular Seiya had gotten.
I feel Saint Seiya out of any other manga from that era really set the tropes that 21st century series would ape.
There is also Ring ni Kakero (also by the creator of Saint Seiya) which was dubbed hot-blooded fighting manga bible. But due to lack of complete English translation and debuting in 70s, it remains largely unknown to western audiences. It increases the jump readership and received full-colour final chapter but is rarely talked about today. Most users here probably know this but outside of this forum is pretty obscure series.
 

Franz

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Nothing new on shoseki ?
 
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