One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

But we lack just too much information to compare him to anyone.

That's exactly the problem. I'd rather wait till we hopefully get more info about him. This arc would be the last chance for that to happen.

 

[Ramen]

That's exactly the problem. I'd rather wait till we hopefully get more info about him. This arc would be the last chance for that to happen.

We've been saying this about every top tier in the series

 

[Nie Li]

That's exactly the problem. I'd rather wait till we hopefully get more info about him. This arc would be the last chance for that to happen.

Either now or when we learn more about Mihawk and his blade, by comparison. But I don't think we will ever get a flashback focused on him or anything like that.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

Spoiler: 993

He said you guys can’t beat me. Only Oden can beat me. That’s not great.

Can as well mean "only Oden has a chance of beating me" doesn't outrightly mean "Oden would beat me".
But as I said, Oden was slightly stronger than Kaido of the past.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 23, 2020, Original Post Date: Oct 23, 2020 ---

We've been saying this about every top tier in the series

Now that's clearly an exaggeration. A good number have been shown and their power level understood and cemented by their on-screen feats and clear comparison to other characters.
Roger, Whitebeard, Big Mom, Kaido, Akainu, Kuzan, Kizaru, Rayleigh, Oden, Marco, Katakuri, Fujitora, Blackbeard (pre TS), etc

The few that are left would be Shanks, Mihawk, Boa Hancock, Weevil, Blackbeard (post TS), Ryokogyu, and the ever elusive Dragon (not Kaido).

 

[Ramen]

Can as well mean "only Oden has a chance of beating me" doesn't outrightly mean "Oden would beat me".
But as I said, Oden was slightly stronger than Kaido of the past.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 23, 2020, Original Post Date: Oct 23, 2020 ---

Now that's clearly an exaggeration. A good number have been shown and their power level understood and cemented by their on-screen feats and clear comparison to other characters.
Roger, Whitebeard, Big Mom, Kaido, Akainu, Kuzan, Kizaru, Rayleigh, Oden, Marco, Katakuri, Fujitora, Blackbeard (pre TS), etc

The few that are left would be Shanks, Mihawk, Boa Hancock, Weevil, Blackbeard (post TS), Ryokogyu, and the ever elusive Dragon (not Kaido).

I was just being comedic

 

[LadyVados]

Calling Katakuri a top tier is questionable.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

In the later case, may the dragon he slew have been of the same species that Kaido's DF has turned him into? If that was the case, he was certainly a legendary fighter for slaying such a strong beast.

Even if it was which is very unlikely and ridiculous it wouldn't make the dragon automatically Kaido strong.
Reason?
Cos most Zoan DFs make their users far powerful (even when unskilled) than the actual animal would be.
Take the natural tiger Luffy, Sabi and Ace faced as kids or a Tiger DF user and put them together. It wouldn't even be a battle.

Similarly, a skilled leopard DF user like Rob Lucci and an actual leopard? The difference is not even worth mentioning. Same rule would apply to a real dragon of which we were led to believe, was no different from the artificial one created in Punk Hazard which was one-shot material for pirates like Luffy, Zoro, or Sanji. It's not impressive at all.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 23, 2020, Original Post Date: Oct 23, 2020 ---

Calling Katakuri a top tier is questionable.

It isn't. He's a Yonko's second in command and the strongest individual aside said Yonko. He's very much a top tier mate.

 

[Nie Li]

Even if it was which is very unlikely and ridiculous it wouldn't make the dragon automatically Kaido strong.
Reason?
Cos most Zoan DFs make their users far powerful (even when unskilled) than the actual animal would be.
Take the natural tiger Luffy, Sabi and Ace faced as kids or a Tiger DF user and put them together. It wouldn't even be a battle.

Similarly, a skilled leopard DF user like Rob Lucci and an actual leopard? The difference is not even worth mentioning. Same rule would apply to a real dragon of which we were led to believe, was no different from the artificial one created in Punk Hazard which was one-shot material for pirates like Luffy, Zoro, or Sanji. It's not impressive at all.

While I do agree that Kaido is stronger than a normal dragon, simply because of his haki and also because there's no reason to believe dragon's are an intelligent especies, I don't think your example is right either.

Lucci was stronger than a normal leopard in his hybrid form because he could apply his martial techniques to it, but in his full leopard form? We only saw that for a second and the only thing he did was bit an almost defenseless Luffy once like a normal leopard would.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 23, 2020, Original Post Date: Oct 23, 2020 ---

That is to say: A normal dragon of Kaido's especies would also be breathing these boro breaths and air scythes.

 

[LadyVados]

Even if it was which is very unlikely and ridiculous it wouldn't make the dragon automatically Kaido strong.
Reason?
Cos most Zoan DFs make their users far powerful (even when unskilled) than the actual animal would be.
Take the natural tiger Luffy, Sabi and Ace faced as kids or a Tiger DF user and put them together. It wouldn't even be a battle.

Similarly, a skilled leopard DF user like Rob Lucci and an actual leopard? The difference is not even worth mentioning. Same rule would apply to a real dragon of which we were led to believe, was no different from the artificial one created in Punk Hazard which was one-shot material for pirates like Luffy, Zoro, or Sanji. It's not impressive at all.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 23, 2020, Original Post Date: Oct 23, 2020 ---

It isn't. He's a Yonko's second in command and the strongest individual aside said Yonko. He's very much a top tier mate.

Kata probably isn’t even 1 tenth as strong as a Yonko or an admiral.

VS Battles wikia rates Kaido as thousands of times stronger than him. While that is a little bit too extreme he is definitely nowhere near the big shots.

 

[Nie Li]

Kata probably isn’t even 1 tenth as strong as a Yonko or an admiral.

VS Battles wikia rates Kaido as thousands of times stronger than him. While that is a little bit too extreme he is definitely nowhere near the big shots.

VS Battles is a site that goes mostly but math calculations based on the drawings and "science", is it not?

Sometimes authors (always) are not really accurate with such details and so how strong the characters actually are in the story may contradict what they calculated.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

Lucci was stronger than a normal leopard in his hybrid form because he could apply his martial techniques to it, but in his full leopard form? We only saw that for a second and the only thing he did was bit an almost defenseless Luffy once like a normal leopard would.

You still don't get my point. A tiger which is stronger than a leopard is defeated by 3 little kids cannot be compared to a man with a tiger DF no matter how weak he is. The difference is very clear IMO.
Zoan DF gives its users tremendous physical ability not even the animal it's based off can compare.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 23, 2020, Original Post Date: Oct 23, 2020 ---

Kata probably isn’t even 1 tenth as strong as a Yonko or an admiral.

VS Battles wikia rates Kaido as thousands of times stronger than him. While that is a little bit too extreme he is definitely nowhere near the big shots.

This is the part where I ignore you.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 23, 2020 ---

Kata probably isn’t even 1 tenth as strong as a Yonko or an admiral.

VS Battles wikia rates Kaido as thousands of times stronger than him. While that is a little bit too extreme he is definitely nowhere near the big shots.

This is the part where we disagree.

 

[Nie Li]

You still don't get my point. A tiger which is stronger than a leopard is defeated by 3 little kids cannot be compared to a man with a tiger DF no matter how weak he is. The difference is very clear IMO.
Zoan DF gives its users tremendous physical ability not even the animal it's based off can compare.

I don't think this is necessarily true, there is no proof for it and there are also no canon mentions of it being the case.

We haven't seen Lucci do anything in his full animal form that the animal wouldn't be able of doing, nor anything impressive either. Only in hybrid form because of the reason I pointed out of him gaining superhuman muscles while still having the proper anatomy for applying his martial techniques. So far the only Zoans in the manga that seem to have resistance superior to the original creature are the prehistoric zoans.

 

[HereNThere]

I really wouldn't use VS wikia as factual evidence.

 

[Ramen]

I really wouldn't use VS wikia as factual evidence.

What do you mean? Shanks is obviously multi-planetary with ease.

 

[McNuss]

stop this zoro and luffy being around the same level of strength died a violent death during luffy vs lucci, lucci was so so clear of the other cp9 , and luffy barely beat, zoro had a much tougher time with kaku, heck sanji dealt with jabura who was on kaku's level much easier than zero dealt with kaku

[

I am not even sure how I should reply to this.

Did you even read my comment? Try out what I proposed, and you will see that I am correct.

 

[LadyVados]

This is the part where we disagree.

Kaido took out Luffy who is stronger than Katakuri (at least in terms of durability) with a single one-handed blow in his weakest form.

He is AT LEAST 10 times as strong as Katakuri.

Oden is probably closer to 20 times as strong as Katakuri.

Roger,Rayleigh,WB,Garp, etc.are probably more than 20 times as strong.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 24, 2020, Original Post Date: Oct 24, 2020 ---

Is it confirmed that Kawamatsu >> WCI Luffy and Kata ?

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 24, 2020 ---

The latest chapter confirms Oden > Shanks since Kaido isn’t traumatised by Shanks. Oden wasn’t strong enough to make a black blade but Mihawk was ergo Mihawk > Oden > Shanks.

 

[M3J]

Really? Even though his reactions were spitting out the food he's eating (during his encounter with Ace) or the water he's drinking (when he & Usopp encountered Smoker and Tashigi)?

Yes, really. If he was scared of Smoker, then Luffy would have showed that on Punk Hazard and during Marineford.

Spitting out food isn't being scared, especially when Luffy was still talking to Smoker with his mouth full I believe, and shoved it back in before running away.

I don't remember the latter.

Either now or when we learn more about Mihawk and his blade, by comparison. But I don't think we will ever get a flashback focused on him or anything like that.

I think we will, just to show how Mihawk became Mihawk and to prolong the series for le money. If Oda gave us a shitty flashback on Senor Pink, then he likely will on the World's Strongest Swordsman and possibly tie it to Zoro. Hell, we got a flashback on Katakuri, even.

Kaido took out Luffy who is stronger than Katakuri (at least in terms of durability) with a single one-handed blow in his weakest form.

Luffy at the time was not stronger than Katakuri, it's been implied that Katakuri lost on purpose. Your ability to conclude is very poor, especially if you really think Oden was better than Shanks just because Kaidou wasn't traumatized by Shanks. Oden is dead, Shanks isn't.

If your screenname is based off Whis from Dragon Ball Super, he'd be embarrassed by your "logic."

 

[LadyVados]

Yes, really. If he was scared of Smoker, then Luffy would have showed that on Punk Hazard and during Marineford.

Spitting out food isn't being scared, especially when Luffy was still talking to Smoker with his mouth full I believe, and shoved it back in before running away.

I don't remember the latter.

I think we will, just to show how Mihawk became Mihawk and to prolong the series for le money. If Oda gave us a shitty flashback on Senor Pink, then he likely will on the World's Strongest Swordsman and possibly tie it to Zoro. Hell, we got a flashback on Katakuri, even.


Luffy at the time was not stronger than Katakuri, it's been implied that Katakuri lost on purpose. Your ability to conclude is very poor, especially if you really think Oden was better than Shanks just because Kaidou wasn't traumatized by Shanks. Oden is dead, Shanks isn't.

If your screenname is based off Whis from Dragon Ball Super, he'd be embarrassed by your "logic."

Pretty much everybody agrees that Luffy had better durability than Katakuri even if he was weaker outright.

Nonetheless they are around the same level.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 24, 2020, Original Post Date: Oct 24, 2020 ---

I know it might be a rule violation but Kaido’s recent showing does seem to imply cutting attacks are at an advantage over regular attacks.

 

[Gallon]

Kaido took out Luffy who is stronger than Katakuri (at least in terms of durability) with a single one-handed blow in his weakest form.

He is AT LEAST 10 times as strong as Katakuri.

Oden is probably closer to 20 times as strong as Katakuri.

Roger,Rayleigh,WB,Garp, etc.are probably more than 20 times as strong.

Kaido knocked Oden out with a single blow as well. That just shows Kaido hits really hard, that's all.
Ten or twenty times stronger is a huge stretch. That's maybe the difference between the top tiers and pre-timeskip Luffy.

 

[M3J]

Pretty much everybody agrees that Luffy had better durability than Katakuri even if he was weaker outright.

Nonetheless they are around the same level.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 24, 2020, Original Post Date: Oct 24, 2020 ---

I know it might be a rule violation but Kaido’s recent showing does seem to imply cutting attacks are at an advantage over regular attacks.

How would they agree that he had better durability when Katakuri chose to lose to Luffy on purpose? Brulee pointed out how Katakuri changed the direction of how he fell, and Katakuri explained why he let Luffy win. At the time, Katakuri was at a higher level but now, Luffy might be after learning new forms of CoA.


I figured it was always obvious that cutting attacks are often superior to regular/blunt attacks, hence why LUffy would have likely lost to Daz Bones prior to learning haki, and why Mihawk was a dangerous opponent during the war.