Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2020] - Discussion and ToC Talk

[Shinuki no Reborn]

MANGAHELPERS "TOC" POLL ISSUE #51 - VOTING!​

The poll for issue #51 is now open, vote for your favorite chapters of the week clicking HERE!

Alongside the release of Sakamoto Days, the extra series this week are:

-Dragon Ball Super 66
-Boruto: Naruto Next Generations 52
-Ghost Reaper Girl 10

Good Votes!

 

[Halloween]

Moderator Notice:
Henceforth, I will be deleting posts that complain about Weekly Shonen Jump having too many/not enough gag/battle/exorcism/sports/etc series.

These posts are not insightful, and do not meaningfully contribute to this thread. Also, this decision is not up for discussion, so posts discussing this decision will also be deleted.~ Halloween

 

[Ryuusei]

Spoiler: 52 TOC & 01 Preview

呪 僕 O マ ブ S C D 破 C B 夜 C 僕 あ 灼 ぼ チ 高 ア 森 A 仄 ぼ 次号カラー ヒロアカ アンデラ 夜桜 約ネバ 道産子 GIGA 岸本先生が描くコラボポスター 爆豪クリアファイル

Spoiler: Issue #52 ToC & Preview

Jujutsu Kaisen (Cover & LCP)
My Hero Academia
One Piece
Mashle
Black Clover
Sakamoto Days (CP)
Dr. Stone
Magu-chan: God of Destruction (CP)
Build King
Mission: Yozakura Family
Me & Roboco
Ayakashi Triangle (CP)
Shakunetsu no Niraikanai
We Never Learn
Chainsaw Man
Koukousei Kazoku
Undead Unluck
Moriking
Agravity Boys
Honomieru Shounen
Bokura no Ketsumei

Issue #1
Cover & LCP: My Hero Academia
CP: Undead Unluck, Mission: Yozakura Family, The Promised Neverland, Dosanko Gyaru wa Namaramenkoi

GIGA Preview
Collab poster by Kishimoto
Bakugou clear file

 

[ItsSamu]

Lmao I’m not hating on JJK, wtf?!

I just said BtW would definitely have the same sales if it was an ongoing series with anime. Chill.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 6, 2020, Original Post Date: Nov 6, 2020 ---

Higher peak than Bleach? Lol.

Wake me up when JJK sells 130M WW and is relevant 8 years after ending its anime.

SMH

JJK could very easily peak higher than Bleach in yearly sales for a year or two, but it'll eventually either end or stabilise so of course it's not going to surpass it overall. Will have to wait and see how it does in volume sales in the next few months as well to compare. In order to surpass Bleach it'll need to overtake My Hero Academia first which is no easy feat.

As a ultra-Kubo fan I'm curious to ask this. How do Bleach fans feel about Kimetsu having surpassed Bleach total sales in Japan?

When I read it pre-anime (and haven't yet finished) I definitely got some Bleach vibes even if the story structure is very different. The introduction of the Hashira was very much what I wanted as well so I'm not mad in the slightest. I'm actually catching up right now from where I left off and I'm loving it.

 

[Mankichi Togawa]

Getting back the discussion to normal:

I'm not 100% sure. This growth is already bigger than both My Hero Academia and The Promised Neverland, isn't it?

 

[101nemesis]

As a ultra-Kubo fan I'm curious to ask this. How do Bleach fans feel about Kimetsu having surpassed Bleach total sales in Japan?

Not wanting to attack Bleach with this. Just that the "Bleach is superior to JJK because muh numbers" can be easily interpoled to this too.

Kimetsu is far bigger series than Bleach ever was. So if anyone denies this and/or is salty about it, they only have themselves to blame.

For all we know, JJK's boost will go on for a long time without slowing down and it'll actually be in a position to beat series like Bleach and HxH.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 6, 2020, Original Post Date: Nov 6, 2020 ---

Getting back the discussion to normal:

I'm not 100% sure. This growth is already bigger than both My Hero Academia and The Promised Neverland, isn't it?

Yeah, it's bigger than MHA's growth from S1. But MHA's growth was also steady throughout the anime run. So lets see.
MHA also got three boosts from 3 different seasons. I predict JJK will reach MHA's series peak with 1 seasons.

TPN's boost from anime was also bigger than S1 MHA given how S1 TPN ~ S3 MHA peak.

 

[TyVip]

Bro how can nobody takes some time to do math

Bleach 90 million in Japan circulation was reported in 2018
2008 Oricon goes from December 24, 2007 to November 16, 2008
So before Volume 31 of Bleach (Dec 4th, 2007) there is no "data"

32 to 74(?) = 42 volumes worth of sales right here

Spoiler

2008: 3,161,825
2009: 6,471,021
2010: 5,204,193
2011: 4,187,258
2012: does not make top 10 but all 4 volumes accounted for 2637761
2013: 2,752,588
2014: 2,986,968
2015: 2,818,926
2016: 2,253,028
Does not make 2017 and 2018, let's pretend it stops selling for the sake of math and number (which is not true)

3,161,825+6,471,021+5,204,193+4,187,258+2637761+2,752,588+2,818,926+2,253,028= 29,486,600

Let's say I'm being super generous and give 29,486,600 million sales the maximum of 35 million copies in print

That means 55 million print circulation are for volume 1-31

In what fucking planet is 55 million 46 million (thanks yada) in 31 volumes easy to reach.

 

[Death&Strawberry]

As a ultra-Kubo fan I'm curious to ask this. How do Bleach fans feel about Kimetsu having surpassed Bleach total sales in Japan?

Not wanting to attack Bleach with this. Just that the "Bleach is superior to JJK because muh numbers" can be easily interpoled to this too.

Kimetsu hasn’t surpassed Bleach, it sold 77M, Bleach sold 95M in Japan and 130M WW.

And I didn’t say Bleach is better because of numbers, I said that because people tend to downplay Bleach when it’s a massive series with insane succes. Bleach anime and merch even does way better than One Piece’s, also the novels selling insanely good. Same with Bleach Brave Souls, and Bleach JET, which sold +38k costing $150

Sales are not equal to quality, just stated that Bleach is huge, and not some Samurai8 shit who will get surpassed easily by a random series.

 

[yadayada]

Bro how can nobody takes some time to do math

Bleach 90 million in Japan circulation was reported in 2018
2008 Oricon goes from December 24, 2007 to November 16, 2008
So before Volume 31 of Bleach (Dec 4th, 2007) there is no "data"

32 to 74(?) = 42 volumes worth of sales right here

Spoiler

2008: 3,161,825
2009: 6,471,021
2010: 5,204,193
2011: 4,187,258
2012: does not make top 10 but all 4 volumes accounted for 2637761
2013: 2,752,588
2014: 2,986,968
2015: 2,818,926
2016: 2,253,028
Does not make 2017 and 2018, let's pretend it stops selling for the sake of math and number (which is not true)

3,161,825+6,471,021+5,204,193+4,187,258+2637761+2,752,588+2,818,926+2,253,028= 29,486,600

Let's say I'm being super generous and give 29,486,600 million sales the maximum of 35 million copies in print

That means 55 million print circulation are for volume 1-31

In what fucking planet is 55 million in 31 volumes easy to reach.

There was literally no reason to do the math cause Bleach circulation at 31 volumes was 46mln, but yes, it's not an "easy" number to reach by any means.

 

[RafGL]

Bleach sold 95M in Japan and 130M WW.

Can you stop posting fake numbers?

 

[Mankichi Togawa]

Kimetsu hasn’t surpassed Bleach, it sold 77M, Bleach sold 95M in Japan and 130M WW.

And I didn’t say Bleach is better because of numbers, I said that because people tend to downplay Bleach when it’s a massive series with insane succes. Bleach anime and merch even does way better than One Piece’s, also the novels selling insanely good. Same with Bleach Brave Souls, and Bleach JET, which sold +38k costing $150

Sales are not equal to quality, just stated that Bleach is huge, and not some Samurai8 shit who will get surpassed easily by a random series.

-Kimetsu has 100M in Japan according with latest sources. 100 > 95.
-Bleach isn't 130 WW. According to latest sources is 120 (a number that Kimetsu very likely could have beaten in next months tbh).
-"Bleach anime and merch does way better than One Piece's". Source for that?

 

[Halloween]

Kimetsu hasn’t surpassed Bleach, it sold 77M

This is factually incorrect, just so you’re aware. KnY is at 100M in Japan. So is your Bleach WW number.

 

[pamuchi]

120M next month

 

[ItsSamu]

Kimetsu hasn’t surpassed Bleach, it sold 77M, Bleach sold 95M in Japan and 130M WW.

And I didn’t say Bleach is better because of numbers, I said that because people tend to downplay Bleach when it’s a massive series with insane succes. Bleach anime and merch even does way better than One Piece’s, also the novels selling insanely good. Same with Bleach Brave Souls, and Bleach JET, which sold +38k costing $150

Sales are not equal to quality, just stated that Bleach is huge, and not some Samurai8 shit who will get surpassed easily by a random series.

As someone who just argued about how well Bleach sells a few pages ago, there is no point comparing it to Demon Slayer or One Piece because it is simply not at that level. Also I’m pretty sure your numbers for Bleach inflated. Even if they were Demon Slayer will over take it in a matter of months.

 

[perroloco]

Peak as in Sales per volume. JJK isn't going to last 74 volumes.
But in Japan, Bleach's last confirmed numbers were 90m in circulation. That's ~1.2m per volume. It's not that hard to reach (That's where Spy x Family is at currently)

I mean JJK will probably reach 1.2 m per volume, but realistically speaking BLEACH's best selling volumes probably sold closer to 2m than the 1.2 mill you are making it out to be, and then dropped (Its lowest selling volumes probably sold less than a million).. And it is hard to reach lol, but I do believe JJK will get some volumes to sell 1m

Here are different comparissons for BLEACH:
2006: 30mill circulation with 22 volumes. Average: 1.2m
2007: 39mill circulation with 27 volumes. Average: 1.4m
2008: 50mill circulation with 34 volumes. Average: 1.47m
201x?: Sadly the source from the video is dead now. But around 2011-2012 it had 72mill in circulation.
2013: 82mill circulation with 59 volumes. Average: 1.4m

BLEACH ended with 74 volumes and the last reported circulation number is 90mill in Japan only, hopefully it gets to 100m with the anime boost and a new edition (Please be a kanzenban).

Anyways with 90mill and 74 volumes that means its average would be a little bit above 1.2mill per volume BUT what it actually means is that (as with most series) the most popular volumes are the first ones and then it declined, we know that in 2008 it averaged around 1.47 mill per volume, so I guess the best selling BLEACH volumes have probably sold around 1.8m... Maaaaaybe even 2m and then went down from there, and the lower selling volumes (The last arc basically, specially the last volumes) probably didn't even sell a million.

And.. How is 1 million not hard to reach? Maybe you meant that for Jujutsu Kaisen it's easy at this point (It's sold 700k-800k right per volume?) if that's the case then I agree it's "easy" for JJK to get to 1million, but then again peak BLEACH in my analysis was probably around 1.8m and then went downhill.

Also I don't particularly care about BLEACH, just wanted to show some numbers to have a bigger picture.

 

[101nemesis]

Kimetsu hasn’t surpassed Bleach, it sold 77M, Bleach sold 95M in Japan and 130M WW.

1. Bleach has 90 million in circulation and 120 million worldwide as per official sources.
Sales for older series aren't going to just randomly increase by a million each year with no new volumes or anything. You can't just pull numbers outta your rear for your arguments.

2. Kimetsu sold 78 million THIS year (the year 2020).
It sold 12 million last year. Wonder what that math comes up to.

Lets see 78 + 12, carry the one over = 90 million sales - in 2 years.
Bleach has 90 million in circulation meaning sales is lower.

And I didn’t say Bleach is better because of numbers, I said that because people tend to downplay Bleach when it’s a massive series with insane succes. Bleach anime and merch even does way better than One Piece’s, also the novels selling insanely good. Same with Bleach Brave Souls, and Bleach JET, which sold +38k costing $150

The only merch data we have for Bleach that shows it did super well was anime DVD sales which it did really well. 600k+ total units. One of the highest for long running anime franchises. But One Piece, Naruto all out perform Bleach in everything else.

Sales are not equal to quality, just stated that Bleach is huge, and not some Samurai8 shit who will get surpassed easily by a random series.

Sales are not equal to quality. A large number of people would say the same thing for Bleach. Taste is subjective. You're just imposing your taste on others. Many would call JJK and Kimetsu better series than Bleach because to them, they are better.

 

[perroloco]

With ongoing anime? Definitely YES.

Just look at the difference between their first volumes.

That's... not how things work..
Every series works differently.

Assassination Classroom was one of those early hits that didn't get that much of a boost from an anime.
Kimetsu no Yaiba, on the other hand, was selling "OK" and then its anime happened and.. well we know what happened then.

I'm not even gonna make a guess and I LOVE making guesses but it's not worth it because BtW is a short serial by literally one of the most renowned mangakas of the era.

Also please don't make a comparison with the failed Kishimoto manga, the whole premise was different, this was a short serial from the start and the Kishimoto manga wanted to be a long manga, no point of comparison, a better point of comparison would be Toriyama's one-volume serials, we know that Ginga Patrol Jaco sold at least 160k.

 

[Rouk']

I mean JJK will probably reach 1.2 m per volume, but realistically speaking BLEACH's best selling volumes probably sold closer to 2m than the 1.2 mill you are making it out to be, and then dropped (Its lowest selling volumes probably sold less than a million).. And it is hard to reach lol, but I do believe JJK will get some volumes to sell 1m

Here are different comparissons for BLEACH:
2006: 30mill circulation with 22 volumes. Average: 1.2m
2007: 39mill circulation with 27 volumes. Average: 1.4m
2008: 50mill circulation with 34 volumes. Average: 1.47m
201x?: Sadly the source from the video is dead now. But around 2011-2012 it had 72mill in circulation.
2013: 82mill circulation with 59 volumes. Average: 1.4m

BLEACH ended with 74 volumes and the last reported circulation number is 90mill in Japan only, hopefully it gets to 100m with the anime boost and a new edition (Please be a kanzenban).

Anyways with 90mill and 74 volumes that means its average would be a little bit above 1.2mill per volume BUT what it actually means is that (as with most series) the most popular volumes are the first ones and then it declined, we know that in 2008 it averaged around 1.47 mill per volume, so I guess the best selling BLEACH volumes have probably sold around 1.8m... Maaaaaybe even 2m and then went down from there, and the lower selling volumes (The last arc basically, specially the last volumes) probably didn't even sell a million.

And.. How is 1 million not hard to reach? Maybe you meant that for Jujutsu Kaisen it's easy at this point (It's sold 700k-800k right per volume?) if that's the case then I agree it's "easy" for JJK to get to 1million, but then again peak BLEACH in my analysis was probably around 1.8m and then went downhill.

Yeah, I get that. I shouldn't have used the word peak, that's not really what I meant. Peak is obviously harder to reach considering how hard Bleach fell at the end of its life. So the average is not representative of how popular Bleach once was.

But, as I said, 1.2m average is not that hard to reach.

JJK's last circulation number is 10m, with 13 volumes+0, let's assume 0 is selling as much as the others (it's probably not, but whatever). That's an average of 714k per volume. To reach 1.216m (the more precise average of Bleach in Japan), it'd basically need to sell 500k more per volume.
Hard to say exatly which reprints are included in the 10m, but if we assume this week's numbers are in, there are 18 episodes left on top of it. To gain 500k per volume, it'd need a weekly average per volume during the run of the anime of 27,778 units. And that's considering it completely stops growing after.

That's not a hard average to reach. It's not an easy task for sure, but considering how the boost started, it can be done. Anything more though (volumes selling 1.8m, 2m, etc), that's way less likely.


But that does raise the question though. Which is the bigger success? The manga whose first volumes reach 1.5m only to decline to 500k for the final ones, or the one the consistently sold 1m units of all its volume.

 

[101nemesis]

It's not impossible to get a series that sells 1 million with print numbers of 1.2 million or higher.
Keep in mind, Bleach's peak print was around that 1.26 million range. It just means that the early Bleach volumes eventually sold more than those print numbers as the series went on through the years when it was still at it's peak popularity and newer people tried out the older volumes before dropping the series.
So if JK can somehow reach 1 million sales per volume with similar print numbers, it'll be able to achieve what Bleach did.

It's not impossible, it's just hard.
I expected MHA to be a million seller by S3. But the boosts were not that significant. Who knows, maybe had TPN's anime aired this year, we could've seen a bigger boost for it than MHA.

Heck, if SxF gets a decent anime boost, it can achieve those numbers if it runs long enough.

 

[TyVip]

JJK is project to growth more than Neverland if it keeps up
Neverland goes from 8.8 mil in 12 volumes in Jan,2019 (Anime aired Jan,2019) to 16 mil in 15 volumes by September,2019 (Anime ended March, 2019)
20~25 mil by the time the anime ended would be massive

 

[Mammo]

Wednesday
>s-stop underestimating Toriko's success
Thursday
>s-stop underestimating Boruto's success
Friday
>s-stop underestimating Bleach's success

this thread

 

[Minsel]

Wednesday
>s-stop underestimating Toriko's success
Thursday
>s-stop underestimating Boruto's success
Friday
>s-stop underestimating Bleach's success

this thread

Next on Weekly Shonen Jump 2020 Mangahelpers thread:
s-stop underestimating Kimetsu No Yaiba's success
and
s-stop underestimating One Piece's success

 

[Midak]

While I understand that sales are clealy important, I believe most of the longer series, especially the Big 3, managed to create a sense of community in other parts of the world around them over the yeaŕs which is now their legacy.

I do not know if KnY has the possibility to do that now that has ended, while I am pretty confident its numbers will reach those of Bleach.

Looking at the all-time top selling list which surpassed 100 million copies, most of them has a distinctive feature that made them famous and remembered, while KnY is a collection of good elements, but, in my opinion, it does not have an iconic characteristic, which sets it apart fron other shonen manga, apart from the sales records.