Igneel fought the strongest Dragon alive and ripped off his arm. He obviously scales to higher things which I noted in my original post. The parent Dragons have zero dc feats and at best they scale to an average dragon as they have nothing to say they were above one lol. So again their feats and scaling are subpar to a S12.
Speed means nothing if their DC is inferior. Plus again parent Dragon feat is outdated by calculations. Irene is far faster than them through Deus Sema scaling and even Laxus' outpacing his own lightning bolt was put above it. These guys scale to Wall who was matching Laxus speed lol.
It didn't slow down. Talking means nothing and is not a time frame. Also there was talking in the Dragon feat as well and Tartarus Ichiya was able to react to them so yeah, let's not go down the downplay rabbit hole shall we? The speed that meteor was moving at plus its weight wouldn't even cut through the atmosphere like butter. Plus the calc I'm referring to already placed Deus Sema's speed above Dargons continent crossing feat with the thirty percent reduction from atmospheric drag. So again Deus sema is far above the dragon crossing feat in speed. Irene's reactions and speed > PoF Erza speed >>> Deus Sema's speed so no, it doesn't just count as attack speed.
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We are also just talking dc and speed and not even noting the ladies hax which would make it a lot easier to kill the Dragons lol.
Each parent dragons casually wiped off thousands of faces while they were active. i.e, parent dragons mustered up that much magic power inspite of Face acting up. And each face hold magic that creates a city sized explosion.
They have attack power as well. Both me and Ax have given explanation as to why. Their CASUAL attacks scale up to face.
Deus Sema isn't Eileen speed, that's her spell's speed. Either way, it doesn't matter what it's speed is in space. In earth, Erza was able to react to it's speed and adjust, not that fast
Talking while the meteor was at sight does mean something. It means, at the very least, that the meteor took quite a few seconds from where Erza saw it in air, to where Erza met it mid air.
Tartarus Ichiya did what? He saw the dragon destroy face in a flash and disappear
Un-fucking-believable Spriggan wank going on here lmao
Spriggans won't even be able to react to the parent dragons speed. Any of them solo. Give me ONE Spriggan who has shown even close to speed feat that parent dragons had. These dragons covered a giant continent multiple times in minutes.
While, God Serena got one shot by human Acno's speed while August, the strongest Spriggan, couldn't even react. None of the Spriggans would even be able to react to speeds that parent dragons are capable of.
Also, parent dragons >> Animus by portrayal, and weakened Animus no diff'd Alverez Natsu. Natsu needed his most dragonized DF to win against Animus.
Alverez Natsu (no DF) > all Spriggan except August and Eileen.
Lmao, why does DC feats matter?
Did Igneel show any DC feat above a city level? Natsu's final attack on Zeref was building level. Serena got killed by an attack that made zero destruction. Evidently AOE of the attacks isn't a conclusive pointer towards attack power. Attack power is what matters, not DC/AOE
Deus Sema's speed in space is irrelevant. When it reached earth, it was quite slow to the point that Erza and Eileen were able to talk before Erza destroyed it.
And it doesn't scale to Eileen's speed, it's just the attack's speed. Eileen herself has shown speed nowhere CLOSE to what parent dragons had shown,
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Gajeel didn't do jack to Aldoron? Gajeel did as much to Aldo as Makarov did to Acno. Stall him for a while, when the dragon wasn't serious. The moment he got serious, it was implied that Gajeel would've got one shot if Brandish's spell didn't run out. And note, this is by a weakened Aldo.
Size =/= strength. What suggests that Brandish would have strength to ONE SHOT parent dragons in her giant form?
Yea no, not obvious.
We've got weakened Animus who no diff'd Alverez Natsu (no DF).
Alverez Natsu (no DF) > all Spriggans except August and Eileen (and maybe Larcade & Serena too I suppose). This alone puts weakened Animus >>> rest of the Spriggans.
Parent dragons obviously have portrayal over regular dragons like Animus.
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Any one of these dragons could've accomplished the same, in four minutes instead of one minute.
But they didn't, and they died even after just doing it as a team. By feats the 4 of them at best scale to FH Zeref, maybe they could do better if they were alive, but their dead selves didn't even have the strength left to help Igneel against Acno.
No special portrayal. Yes, when there is no more dragons - who else should he take?? xd Maybe those were his friends or something. Nothing stated that they are above other dragons.
Parents dragons - average dragons. Nothing more, nothing less.
This is the funnest one. Invel, Brandish, Dimaria, August, Irene - already proved that they could nodiff Natsu easier than Animus. Larcade, Serena, maybe Jacob - could win too.
Want to believe in Natsu's wank? You are welcome. But if mc win everything - it doesnt mean he is stronger or he can win in normal battle. Especially when it already proven that they can win against him.
If Natsu beats god dragon, it doesnt mean he is so strong, it means dragon was so weak.
Natsu killed buffed Animus in his most dragonized form. Does it mean Animus was as strong as Natsu? No. He could been tiers below.
The most stupid thing to do - rate characters based on MC fights.
Natsu losed to Aria and won against Gajeel. Natsu was almost dead on Tenrou and still fought Hades like new. Natsu was nodiffed by Zeref and... we all know the end.
Ummm,let’s recall Natsu’s battle records against the one you mentioned.
Larcade-IIRC Larcade only met Natsu when he went to the guild calling Zeref his father. There was no fight whatsoever between them. Larcade only made Natsu feeling asleep before he was murdered by Zeref.
Jacob-Both Natsu and Lucy were fighting Jacob in H2H for more than a minute. They were not injured badly or severely to even call it NO DIFF for Jacob.Then,Natsu used a FDK Fist to defeat Jacob while evaporating the lake.
Serena-You call it no diff?the attacks which all of the FT and no FT members were able to tank?
Brandish-this one is tricky. Though we’ve seen Brandish disabling Natsu by enlarging his “tumor”,we didn’t see them actually fighting though. It was pure hax on Brandish’s part.
Invel-yes Invel was able to froze Natsu and Co except Gray BUT he was then able to break it using his fire. No diff to freezing Natsu but wasn’t able to keep him frozen for hours. No actual fight happening.
Dimaria-For the record,Natsu was already unconscious the time Dimaria used her hax whatsoever because Brandish enlarged his “tumor”. Definitely no diff for not making any effort restraining an already unconscious Natsu.lol. Guess what,after a number of panels we saw Dimaria’s traumatized face on the wall and stated that Natsu was able to move in her timestop. That’s apparently NO DIFF in favor of Natsu.
Irene-never recalled them actually meeting though unless you mean Irene watching over them thru her big eye. Please show me a panel Irene no diffing Natsu.
August-used Melt but Natsu was able to negate the effects because he is a Fire mage according to him.We didn’t saw a panel of them lying unconscious after that attack.
On the other hand,I’m 50/50 with who is going to win the fight between S12 and parent dragons. Hard to decide when we haven’t seen any battle feats from parent dragons and the same with any S12 defeating a real dragon. Did Irene defeated a dragon by herself?IIRC Belserion was with her throughout the war,and so was their other allied dragons.
But they didn't, and they died even after just doing it as a team. By feats the 4 of them at best scale to FH Zeref, maybe they could do better if they were alive, but their dead selves didn't even have the strength left to help Igneel against Acno.
They died because they couldn't last long after getting out of the DS bodies, this was always the condition. It's not because they ran out of magic power or something. They didn't look even a bit tired after destroying all those faces.
Anyway, the dragons lasted several minutes after destroying face, they talked with their Dragon Slayers for a while before disappearing. This is all the time they need to individually destroy all faces.
They were busy destroying faces, which was why they couldn't help Igneel. Meanwhile, Acno killed Igneel and left while they were destroying face.
Let me ask this to you - why did Acno leave after killing Igneel? Didn't he want to personally kill other dragons as well? It's likely because Acno was in no shape to take on 4 of them at the same time after getting wounded severely. Or maybe he knew that the parent dragons are gonna disappear anyway.
On the other hand,I’m 50/50 with who is going to win the fight between S12 and parent dragons. Hard to decide when we haven’t seen any battle feats from parent dragons and the same with any S12 defeating a real dragon. Did Irene defeated a dragon by herself?IIRC Belserion was with her throughout the war,and so was their other allied dragons.
Weakened Animus no diff'd Alverez Natsu (no DF). Alverez Natsu (no DF) > all Spriggans except August, Eileen, Larcade and Serena; and even August/Eileen won't be able to no diff Alverez Natsu (no DF).
After Natsu showed his most dragonized DF, Animus still wasn't one shotted. He took quite a few blows from Natsu to be defeated. Regular DF of Natsu > base Zeref.
While dragon Eileen got one shot by Erza, the moment she got DS magic. Half Dragonized DF >> regular DF >> Alverez Natsu (no DF) ~ Erza.
By feats, weakened Animus is at least as impressive as dragon Eileen.
Note, Animus is just a regular dragon as well. If you accept that parent dragons are a tier above regular dragons (they have the portrayal for that), then that would be enough to prove parent dragons would destroy the S12
Also, parent dragons have the FASTEST speed feats, ever shown in the series. No other feat has even come close to this speed. No Spriggan have shown capability of being even close to reacting to such speed.
They died because they couldn't last long after getting out of the DS bodies, this was always the condition. It's not because they ran out of magic power or something. They didn't look even a bit tired after destroying all those faces.
Anyway, the dragons lasted several minutes after destroying face, they talked with their Dragon Slayers for a while before disappearing. This is all the time they need to individually destroy all faces.
They were busy destroying faces, which was why they couldn't help Igneel. Meanwhile, Acno killed Igneel and left while they were destroying face.
Let me ask this to you - why did Acno leave after killing Igneel? Didn't he want to personally kill other dragons as well? It's likely because Acno was in no shape to take on 4 of them at the same time after getting wounded severely. Or maybe he knew that the parent dragons are gonna disappear anyway.
There is one point of comparison though - Animus
Weakened Animus no diff'd Alverez Natsu (no DF). Alverez Natsu (no DF) > all Spriggans except August, Eileen, Larcade and Serena; and even August/Eileen won't be able to no diff Alverez Natsu (no DF).
After Natsu showed his most dragonized DF, Animus still wasn't one shotted. He took quite a few blows from Natsu to be defeated. Regular DF of Natsu > base Zeref.
While dragon Eileen got one shot by Erza, the moment she got DS magic. Half Dragonized DF >> regular DF >> Alverez Natsu (no DF) ~ Erza.
By feats, weakened Animus is at least as impressive as dragon Eileen.
Note, Animus is just a regular dragon as well. If you accept that parent dragons are a tier above regular dragons (they have the portrayal for that), then that would be enough to prove parent dragons would destroy the S12
Also, parent dragons have the FASTEST speed feats, ever shown in the series. No other feat has even come close to this speed. No Spriggan have shown capability of being even close to reacting to such speed.
Igneel managed to have a 30 minute fight with Acno, Parent Dragon died busting face, I'm seeing a vast discrepancy in their performance.
Minutes of standing around, doing nothing doesn't impress me, assuming it was even minutes in the first place. Whatever you think they could do, it's not in their feats, by feats at best they're FH Zeref tier, they don't have the feats for anything more than that.
Because Igneel ripped off his arm? Doesn't say anything about the parent dragons strength. FH Zeref would have probably killed grievously injured Acno too, so Acno not wanting to take on the 4 of them at once doesn't put them above FH Zeref to me.
Igneel managed to have a 30 minute fight with Acno, Parent Dragon died busting face, I'm seeing a vast discrepancy in their performance.
Minutes of standing around, doing nothing doesn't impress me, assuming it was even minutes in the first place. Whatever you think they could do, it's not in their feats, by feats at best they're FH Zeref tier, they don't have the feats for anything more than that.
Because Igneel ripped off his arm? Doesn't say anything about the parent dragons strength. FH Zeref would have probably killed grievously injured Acno too, so Acno not wanting to take on the 4 of them at once doesn't put them above FH Zeref to me.
They stood around doing nothing, because they had nothing left to do. Igneel died and Acno left.
All of them, including Igneel, were going to die in a short time after coming out anyway. Parent dragons didn't die because they ran out of mp or something. They died because their bodies were unstable.
I'd assume significant time had passed off screen, between them destroying face, and them meeting and talking to the good guys. After all, they (FT and sabertooth members) all had time to regroup even though they were separated earlier.
Meh, FH Zeref can't do it. With and without FH, Zeref was still an ant to Acno. Weakened or not, it's not hard to crush ants.
If parent dragons were some average dragons like Animus (who, even in his weakened state, was able to no diff Alverez Natsu), then Acno would've gone and one shotted them. This does indicate that parent dragons were not one shot material for Acnologia, otherwise, losing an arm wouldn't deter him. While every single Spriggan are one shot materials for Acnologia.
They stood around doing nothing, because they had nothing left to do. Igneel died and Acno left.
All of them, including Igneel, were going to die in a short time after coming out anyway. Parent dragons didn't die because they ran out of mp or something. They died because their bodies were unstable.
I'd assume significant time had passed off screen, between them destroying face, and them meeting and talking to the good guys. After all, they (FT and sabertooth members) all had time to regroup even though they were separated earlier.
Meh, FH Zeref can't do it. With and without FH, Zeref was still an ant to Acno. Weakened or not, it's not hard to crush ants.
If parent dragons were some average dragons like Animus (who, even in his weakened state, was able to no diff Alverez Natsu), then Acno would've gone and one shotted them. This does indicate that parent dragons were not one shot material for Acnologia, otherwise, losing an arm wouldn't deter him. While every single Spriggan are one shot materials for Acnologia.
Irrelevant, them standing around doing nothing isn't impressive. Could they have done more? Maybe, but I didn't see it.
Doesn't really matter, one performed exceptionally, the other four performed to a mediocre standard, at best FH Zeref standard with their combined efforts.
Could be, could also not be, Face's destruction happened right at the end of the arc, and like I said, them standing around and doing nothing doesn't impress me, whether they have a good reason for doing it or not, it's still them just standing around.
Same could be said for the Parent Dragons, and even if you were right about how weak FH Zeref is, then that really just means that the Parent Dragons are weak too, because honestly their tenuous connection to FH's performance is the only worthwhile feat they have. FH Zeref has more hype for being a match for Acno than any of the Parent Dragons do, combined, it's only them accomplishing the same job FH was hyped to do that puts them on any measurable scale of power, without that it's basically us just saying we feel they should be strong cause theyre the parents
Irrelevant, them standing around doing nothing isn't impressive. Could they have done more? Maybe, but I didn't see it.
Doesn't really matter, one performed exceptionally, the other four performed to a mediocre standard, at best FH Zeref standard with their combined efforts.
Could be, could also not be, Face's destruction happened right at the end of the arc, and like I said, them standing around and doing nothing doesn't impress me, whether they have a good reason for doing it or not, it's still them just standing around.
Same could be said for the Parent Dragons, and even if you were right about how weak FH Zeref is, then that really just means that the Parent Dragons are weak too, because honestly their tenuous connection to FH's performance is the only worthwhile feat they have. FH Zeref has more hype for being a match for Acno than any of the Parent Dragons do, combined, it's only them accomplishing the same job FH was hyped to do that puts them on any measurable scale of power, without that it's basically us just saying we feel they should be strong cause theyre the parents
I assume you meant that parent dragons died because they ran out of MP by using them up destroying face. If this is not what you meant, ignore. But if this is what you meant, what I said above is very much relevant - that they died because of being unstable. They didn't even faze from destroying all the faces, so they had plenty of mp to spare.
I didn't say that to mean they were impressive. I said that to imply that they didn't immediately vanish after destroying face, and that Igneel also would've died by the same time. Not because of injuries or lack of magic power, but because their bodies became unstable. Point being, them vanishing was an indication of time limit, not their power level
It's more that the parent dragons effortlessly performed at a level FH was expected to AFTER face was activated (when Makarov basically conceded and declared it was too late). Even it was a single parent dragon, it could've accomplished the same nevertheless, so you can't claim that their combined might is capped at FH Zeref. This also does no imply parent dragons in that tier either, because they accomplished this effortlessly - so this is just a floor for them, not a ceiling.
Honestly, you can even ignore the comparison to FH and parent dragons still look extremely impressive by feats. Parent dragons have the FASTEST feat ever seen in fairy tail. No other speed feat even comes close. They also have great attack power feats -each of them destroyed ~ 800 faces, each having mp to cause a city sized explosion, within a minute or two.
FH Zeref was still an ant to Zeref, which was why he wanted to go back and kill him before he became strong. While Acnologia didn't bother facing parent dragons after having his hand ripped off.
And it's not simply because they're parents as well, though that also does give them a special portrayal. It's more that Igneel and Zeref chose them for their Acnologia project. This, at least implies, that they're not some average dragons who are one shottable by Acno (like Animus and Zirconis).
I assume you meant that parent dragons died because they ran out of MP by using them up destroying face. If this is not what you meant, ignore. But if this is what you meant, what I said above is very much relevant - that they died because of being unstable. They didn't even phase from destroying all the faces, so they had plenty of mp to spare.
I didn't say that to mean they were impressive. I said that to imply that they didn't immediately vanish after destroying face, and that Igneel also would've died by the same time. Not because of injuries or lack of magic power, but because their bodies became unstable.
It's more that the parent dragons effortlessly performed at a level FH was expected to AFTER face was activated (when Makarov basically conceded and declared it was too late). Even it was a single parent dragon, it could've accomplished the same nevertheless, so you can't claim that their combined might is capped at FH Zeref. This also does no imply parent dragons in that tier either, because they accomplished this effortlessly - so this is just a floor for them, not a ceiling.
Honestly, you can even ignore the comparison to FH and parent dragons still look extremely impressive by feats. Parent dragons have the FASTEST feat ever seen in fairy tail. No other speed feat even comes close. They also have great attack power feats -each of them destroyed ~ 800 faces, each having mp to cause a city sized explosion, within a minute or two.
FH Zeref was still an ant to Zeref, which was why he wanted to go back and kill him before he became strong. While Acnologia didn't bother facing parent dragons after having his hand ripped off.
And it's not simply because they're parents as well, though that also does give them a special portrayal. It's more that Igneel and Zeref chose them for their Acnologia project. This, at least implies, that they're not some average dragons who are one shottable by Acno (like Animus and Zirconis).
They could have, but it doesn't really matter either way.
I see no reason to believe Igneel would've died by the same time.
Effortlessly is an exaggeration, you don't know how much effort they put into it. Saying that a single Parent Dragon could have accomplished it is also an exaggeration, because this isn't what happened, and nothing implies that this is what would have happened if there was only one. Not to mention the fact that if this was the case, then they should have done exactly that and have had the other 3 go and back up Igneel, especially Grandeney
Sure, they accomplished it after Face had already activated, but they already had their power in their bodies, Makarov still hadn't given FH to FT.
I didn't say Parent Dragons were capped at FH Zeref, they could be stronger, but there's simply nothing to suggest that this is the case. Based on any reasonable measure of their feats and hype, FH Zeref is their absolute best, they've shown nothing at all that puts them above and they have less hype for taking on Acno than he does.
No, you can't really ignore the comparison to FH, it's their sole worthwhile feat. Their "speed" feat means virtually nothing, it's like Brandish going country sized, worthless unless you can make a reasonable comparison to another powerful character. The only thing the dragons "speed" feat means is that they're faster than Tartaros level FT characters which means nothing. Same with their attack power feat, worthless, they blew up a bunch of rocks, Wendy can do that.
Sure, and I can say Parent Dragons were an ant to Acno too, it's easy to make those kinds of claims, but at the end of the day the implication that Zeref could take Acno occured much more frequently and was stated much more directly than anything the Parent Dragons have. And Zeref didn't want to go back in time because he's scared of Acno, with FH in his possession he doesnt care a wit for him, Zeref goes back in time to relive the good old days.
No one said they were average dragons, but parent portrayal on takes you so far, certainly doesn't take you all the way above FH Zeref.
Yea no, we haven't seen anyone except Acno smash dragons like nothing 400 years back. All other dragon slayers were involved in rigorous battles, since it was said that humans + allied dragons, and enemy dragons were in stalemate until Acno showed up. For all we know, everyone else worked in teams, along with their allied dragons, to defeat the enemy dragons.
And the parent dragons aren't your average dragons either. They obviously have special portrayal, considering they were involved in the ploy to beat Acnologia. You think Igneel would take in any random average dragon who is one shottable by Acno to help him in his battle?
before irene invented ds. the good dragons were losing pretty badly. when ds joined the fray, the war took a drastic turn.
why should we assume it was a team effort? bad dragons were more in number werent they. and then the good dragons were losing.
it is definitely not
50 good dragons + ds vs 50 bad dragons
you are ignoring irene portrayal, by aconologia himself
They could have, but it doesn't really matter either way.
I see no reason to believe Igneel would've died by the same time.
Effortlessly is an exaggeration, you don't know how much effort they put into it. Saying that a single Parent Dragon could have accomplished it is also an exaggeration, because this isn't what happened, and nothing implies that this is what would have happened if there was only one. Not to mention the fact that if this was the case, then they should have done exactly that and have had the other 3 go and back up Igneel, especially Grandeney
Sure, they accomplished it after Face had already activated, but they already had their power in their bodies, Makarov still hadn't given FH to FT.
I didn't say Parent Dragons were capped at FH Zeref, they could be stronger, but there's simply nothing to suggest that this is the case. Based on any reasonable measure of their feats and hype, FH Zeref is their absolute best, they've shown nothing at all that puts them above and they have less hype for taking on Acno than he does.
No, you can't really ignore the comparison to FH, it's their sole worthwhile feat. Their "speed" feat means virtually nothing, it's like Brandish going country sized, worthless unless you can make a reasonable comparison to another powerful character. The only thing the dragons "speed" feat means is that they're faster than Tartaros level FT characters which means nothing. Same with their attack power feat, worthless, they blew up a bunch of rocks, Wendy can do that.
Sure, and I can say Parent Dragons were an ant to Acno too, it's easy to make those kinds of claims, but at the end of the day the implication that Zeref could take Acno occured much more frequently and was stated much more directly than anything the Parent Dragons have. And Zeref didn't want to go back in time because he's scared of Acno, with FH in his possession he doesnt care a wit for him, Zeref goes back in time to relive the good old days.
No one said they were average dragons, but parent portrayal on takes you so far, certainly doesn't take you all the way above FH Zeref.
Their bodies were unstable, so Igneel would've died as well. Ok, maybe not same time, we don't have proof for or against that.
Yes, it was effortless. They destroyed each of them in a flash and went for the next one. You think a parent dragon couldn't destroy 3000 of them if it has shown feats of destroying 750 of them? By the end of destroying the faces, the parent dragons showed no signs of exhaustion, implying that destroying those faces didn't take too much out of them.
It's just a matter of time, if they were solo. UNLESS they were on a timer regarding face (Face keeps negating magic, so maybe they had to destroy face before face negated all their mp), this is a reasonable possibility as well.
They had power in their bodies because they were that powerful, face couldn't negate the magic power in their bodies fast enough.
The plan was for Zeref to use FH to fire countless etherions to take down Acnologia IIRC. Not fight Acno himself.
What I meant was that, even disregarding FH comparisons, their actual feats themselves were impressive.
Their speed still remains the fastest in FT verse. Has any character still shown speed feats, that is fast enough to cover a continent in a minute? No. It's not just Tartarus character, no character so far has shown that level of speed. And yes, I see your comparison towards Brandish's country size. It does make a difference for physical strength
No, it wasn't just blowing up a bunch of rocks. Blowing up the rock is only surface level damage. Wendy couldn't do jack to the actual magic itself, Carla had to do some shady stuff to make it explode on its on. Parent dragons casually destroyed the magics themselves. Each of the face has magic, whose explosion covers an entire city+ area
Ok, I'll agree I was wrong about Zeref's motive for going back in time. He wanted to relive his life, yeah.
By reasonable hype, parent dragons weren't one shot materials for Acno. Otherwise, Igneel wouldn't have brought them into the ploy to defeat Acno, since they would be useless. They were likely the top tiers of their respective races of dragons (like Igneel was for fire dragons). I'm not saying they were Igneel tier, but it's reasonable to assume that they could hold their own against Acno, at least for a while.
Either way, we're going far off topic lol. FH Zeref >> base Zeref > all Spriggans. Being FH Zeref tier alone would allow any of them to solo the Spriggans.
before irene invented ds. the good dragons were losing pretty badly. when ds joined the fray, the war took a drastic turn.
why should we assume it was a team effort? bad dragons were more in number werent they. and then the good dragons were losing.
it is definitely not
50 good dragons + ds vs 50 bad dragons
you are ignoring irene portrayal, by aconologia himself
Yea, when DS became a thing, it became a stalemate instead of bad dragons just taking their victory for granted
Because those were the panels provided to us. They showed us the humans and dragons being on battlefield
I didn't say it was 50 good dragons +DS vs 50 bad dragons. If I had to put a number, it probably was 30 good dragons + DS vs 50 bad dragons
What portrayal? She's called the mother of all dragons (or was it dragon slayers?) because she came up with the concept of dragon slaying magic, it wasn't because of her strength (not saying she wasn't strong, but the title itself has no relation to her power). I would bring in feats, but I know you'd completely deny dragon cry all together lol, we've done this before.
Their bodies were unstable, so Igneel would've died as well. Ok, maybe not same time, we don't have proof for or against that.
Yes, it was effortless. They destroyed each of them in a flash and went for the next one. You think a parent dragon couldn't destroy 3000 of them if it has shown feats of destroying 750 of them? By the end of destroying the faces, the parent dragons showed no signs of exhaustion, implying that destroying those faces didn't take too much out of them.
It's just a matter of time, if they were solo. UNLESS they were on a timer regarding face (Face keeps negating magic, so maybe they had to destroy face before face negated all their mp), this is a reasonable possibility as well.
They had power in their bodies because they were that powerful, face couldn't negate the magic power in their bodies fast enough.
The plan was for Zeref to use FH to fire countless etherions to take down Acnologia IIRC. Not fight Acno himself.
What I meant was that, even disregarding FH comparisons, their actual feats themselves were impressive.
Their speed still remains the fastest in FT verse. Has any character still shown speed feats, that is fast enough to cover a continent in a minute? No. It's not just Tartarus character, no character so far has shown that level of speed. And yes, I see your comparison towards Brandish's country size. It does make a difference for physical strength
No, it wasn't just blowing up a bunch of rocks. Blowing up the rock is only surface level damage. Wendy couldn't do jack to the actual magic itself, Carla had to do some shady stuff to make it explode on its on. Parent dragons casually destroyed the magics themselves. Each of the face has magic, whose explosion covers an entire city+ area
Ok, I'll agree I was wrong about Zeref's motive for going back in time. He wanted to relive his life, yeah.
By reasonable hype, parent dragons weren't one shot materials for Acno. Otherwise, Igneel wouldn't have brought them into the ploy to defeat Acno, since they would be useless. They were likely the top tiers of their respective races of dragons (like Igneel was for fire dragons). I'm not saying they were Igneel tier, but it's reasonable to assume that they could hold their own against Acno, at least for a while.
Either way, we're going far off topic lol. FH Zeref >> base Zeref > all Spriggans. Being FH Zeref tier alone would allow any of them to solo the Spriggans.
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Yea, when DS became a thing, it became a stalemate instead of bad dragons just taking their victory for granted
Because those were the panels provided to us. They showed us the humans and dragons being on battlefield
I didn't say it was 50 good dragons +DS vs 50 bad dragons. If I had to put a number, it probably was 30 good dragons + DS vs 50 bad dragons
What portrayal? She's called the mother of all dragons (or was it dragon slayers?) because she came up with the concept of dragon slaying magic, it wasn't because of her strength (not saying she wasn't strong, but the title itself has no relation to her power). I would bring in feats, but I know you'd completely deny dragon cry all together lol, we've done this before.
No? Why would I assume a character has four times the power of what they actually displayed.
Sure, they just died afterwards.
And my point still stands, if one could do it, then one should have done it. At the very least three should have done it and sent Grandeney to help Igneel.
Yes exactly, and FT didnt have that power. hence why Makarov said too late.
No it wasn't, countless Etherions was FTs plan.
I know, I'm simply saying that those feats dont impress me in the slightest.
You don't know it's the fastest FT speed feat, it has no comparison to anyone other than Tartaros FT. Crossing large distances means nothing to me, just means they have good travel speed, says nothing about their actual combat speed. Most FT characters can attack faster than the eye can see, but they can't travel that fast because they cant fly. And what I said about Brandish, she can enlarge characters to the size of countries, which means if she wanted to she could punch across an entire country, that kind of speed is Parent Dragon tier speed, and it similarly means nothing.
Pfft. and? The parent dragons attacks are more impressive than Wendy AND Cara then, big whoop.
Never said they were oneshot material. I also rank August and Eileen above Base Zeref.
Atlas Flame wasn't weakened when Silver froze him. He was already dead. He died and left a fragment of his memory in the eternal flames. The parent dragons are overwhelmingly above Mard Geer. Face was Mard Geer's endgame. Face was what Mard Geer was riding all his hopes and dreams on. He was banking on face to take out Fairy Tail even after he was defeated. He was willing to sacrifice Kyouka, his strongest demon gate, to hasten it's activation. The parent dragons rendered everything Tartaros worked for in the last several hundred years obsolete in just a few minutes.
It boggles my mind how Deus Sema is treated as a speed feat. Trying to scale Irene's movement speed to it is like trying to scale Sting to lightspeed because he uses light. The big elephant in the room is that deus sema is simply not a very fast attack. Even if it was super fast in the vacuum of space, it slowed down significantly when it entered the atmosphere. There's like 2 pages of dialogue before Erza even requips the gauntlet. Then another 5 pages of dialogue while Erza is up in the air. The fact that Erza and Irene can even hold a conversation with each other means that the meteor must have been traveling below the speed of sound, as Erza is closer to the meteor than she is to Irene by page 3. Anyways, the fodders on the battlefield could see the meteor coming at page 2.
The parent dragons may not be on Igneel's level, but it's not like anyone else is close to Igneel either. Igneel was the closest thing to an equal Acnologia ever faced. His biological son is a god dragon, and the dragon slayer he trained is on his way there too. Irene and Brandish aren't anywhere near Igneel's level. Neither is Erza. It's debatable if they're on Alvarez-Arc DF Natsu's level, and they're simply not on current DF Natsu's level. The parent dragons don't have to be on Igneel's level to beat a Spriggan. They just have to be stronger than base Natsu tiers. They don't have to be as strong as Igneel to beat Irene either. They just have to be within the ballpark of Alvarez-arc DF Natsu. DF Gajeel killed Bloodman with punches. Metalicana would have to be at least on that level, and honestly that's probably a lowball. He's probably a lot stronger than Gajeel. Metalicana should be on Gajeel's level if Gajeel ever manages to fully dragonize. The idea of any average Spriggan stomping Gajeel in hand to hand is already hard to swallow...and Metalicana represents a version of Gajeel with a dragon's body.
Face is basically Faris' whiteout taken to a continental level, without the mind control effects that comes afterwards. Faris can already solo Fairy Tail with the scale of her powers. If face was a spell that could be used by a mage, that mage would be able to solo all of Ishgal. There's only a handful of characters with the MP to remain operable after face's activation, and none of them have the feats to run around a continent and smash them.
Each parent dragons casually wiped off thousands of faces while they were active. i.e, parent dragons mustered up that much magic power inspite of Face acting up. And each face hold magic that creates a city sized explosion.
They have attack power as well. Both me and Ax have given explanation as to why. Their CASUAL attacks scale up to face.
Deus Sema isn't Eileen speed, that's her spell's speed. Either way, it doesn't matter what it's speed is in space. In earth, Erza was able to react to it's speed and adjust, not that fast
Talking while the meteor was at sight does mean something. It means, at the very least, that the meteor took quite a few seconds from where Erza saw it in air, to where Erza met it mid air.
Tartarus Ichiya did what? He saw the dragon destroy face in a flash and disappear
Wiped a thousand skyscraper sized rocks that Wendy destroyed is not impressive dc wise. Each Face has to absorb magic to do that which was released and eradicated when the pulse went off. It also wasn't anywhere near a city sized explosion and they did not destroy the magic itself just the tool. Also how does city level explosion mean anything when Tartarus characters were above city level by feats and they fodder to the S12?
They don't have any good attack power as they never destroyed the magic of FACE just the device. They never tanked the explosion from the self destruct which wouldn't even be impressive in the first place since they have dragon scales that protect them from direct magical attack lol.
Deus Sema is a speed feat for her as Erza out sped the meteor by on panel feats and Irene is faster than Erza. Irene also had to guide the meteor their via enchant which would apply to her reactions. A meteor doesn't magically stop moving once it hits the atmosphere. Like I said the accounted drag would still place Deus Sema far above the Dragon speed feat. And that is a lowball as Deus Sema wouldn't lose velocity due to the weight of the rock and the speed it was moving at.
It means absolutely nothing. If talking was a time measure then no one would be above the speed of sound. Guess the Flash who is MFTL is slower than sound bcs he talks while he fights. Oh boy the level downplay we can reach if we actually used talking as an actual time frame is astronomical.
Nope he straight react to them and moved Christina out of the way.
Oh and look talking while in the middle of the Dragons speed feat as well. Guess they are slower than sound too bcs they talked in the middle of it, right?
Like I said talking is not a viable time frame. We can account for the speed of the meteor just by visually looking at it travelling to Earth in three panels and know how fast it is. Even by applying the drag of the atmosphere (which would be none, but gotta lowball it somehow) it would still be above the parent dragon's feat by a lot.
Destroying the structure of face does nothing to actually stop it's effects. You have to destroy the magic that makes it work. Wendy couldn't do that to just one. The parent dragons could do it to all 3000. Each of the faces has enough magic power to create the explosions we saw from Carla's self destruct spell. The dragons destroyed that magic.
Erza is not the Flash. The Flash is faster than light, but he can't communicate to people while in lightspeed unless they too are also within the ballpark of his speed. He'd simply be talking too fast for anyone to understand. He has to slow down, talk, then move again. It took 2 pages from the time Erza spotted dues sema to her deciding to requip her guantlet. Are you saying all that happened faster than the speed of light? Okay, then what about all the fodders in the battlefield that saw Dues Sema falling towards them? They spotted Dues Sema before Erza even decided she was going to do something about it. Are they all super fast? Unless your argument is that everybody is moving at superspeed, including the fodders, dues sema simply isn't a very fast attack. Everybody saw it coming. Erza tiers can react to it before it impacts the ground.
Grandeeney wasn't trying to hit Christina. In fact, she was purposely trying to avoid hitting Christina. That's why she gave them the heads up to get away. So sure, Christina can react to Grandeeney. In the same way you can react to a gun if someone yells at you to get out of the way, and pulls the trigger once you dodge out of the way. What Christina can't do is fly around Ishgal and wipe out the faces like the parent dragons could. Also, nobody was talking during Grandeeney's charge. They had enough time to spit out a few words before the charge. Erza was giving Irene a full blown lecture on being a queen 20 yards away from the meteor.
Wiped a thousand skyscraper sized rocks that Wendy destroyed is not impressive dc wise. Each Face has to absorb magic to do that which was released and eradicated when the pulse went off. It also wasn't anywhere near a city sized explosion and they did not destroy the magic itself just the tool. Also how does city level explosion mean anything when Tartarus characters were above city level by feats and they fodder to the S12?
They don't have any good attack power as they never destroyed the magic of FACE just the device. They never tanked the explosion from the self destruct which wouldn't even be impressive in the first place since they have dragon scales that protect them from direct magical attack lol.
Deus Sema is a speed feat for her as Erza out sped the meteor by on panel feats and Irene is faster than Erza. Irene also had to guide the meteor their via enchant which would apply to her reactions. A meteor doesn't magically stop moving once it hits the atmosphere. Like I said the accounted drag would still place Deus Sema far above the Dragon speed feat. And that is a lowball as Deus Sema wouldn't lose velocity due to the weight of the rock and the speed it was moving at.
It means absolutely nothing. If talking was a time measure then no one would be above the speed of sound. Guess the Flash who is MFTL is slower than sound bcs he talks while he fights. Oh boy the level downplay we can reach if we actually used talking as an actual time frame is astronomical.
Nope he straight react to them and moved Christina out of the way.
Oh and look talking while in the middle of the Dragons speed feat as well. Guess they are slower than sound too bcs they talked in the middle of it, right?
Like I said talking is not a viable time frame. We can account for the speed of the meteor just by visually looking at it travelling to Earth in three panels and know how fast it is. Even by applying the drag of the atmosphere (which would be none, but gotta lowball it somehow) it would still be above the parent dragon's feat by a lot.
WE've gone through the Wendy part multiple times. Either you're not paying attention or being disingenuous. One final time - Wendy just destroyed the covering and not magic itself, Wendy couldn't do jack to the magic. Parent dragons destroyed the magic itself
Most Spriggans are also city or multi-city level; only August , Eileen and Bandish are exceptions (for Brandish, it's because of the nature of her magic). Who in Tartarus, except Mard, is city level? Mard is Spriggan tier IMO, but lets not get into that for now.
What? They obviously destroyed the magic of Face. How else did the magic of face throughout the continent negate?
Deus Sema is speed of the meteor, not of Eileen herself. Why bring up the speed of spell, when we're talking about speed of characters? If we're going by attack's speed, then Sting and Future Rouge would have that highest, since they use light.
And it's speed in space is irrelevant, as Erza was able to deal with it's speed in Earth. A meteor's speed drastically reduce upon entering Earth, due to friction. And we don't need to go into real physics here, we have Erza talking and reacting to Eileen's meteor
Nah, it's not downplay, Just logic. Say Erza first saw the meteor 5-10 km above her. We can assume 5-10 secs at least between when she retained strength to jump, her jumping and finally meeting the meteor mid air. At best, you've got the meteor moving at 1-2 km/sec here IN EARTH (stop bringing up it's speed in space, it's irrelevant). Parent dragons are far faster
Why bring up flash? Ax explained that, not going into it.
Nope, he didn't react. Grandeeney asked them to move beforehand. And they didn't even have time to utter a word other than "evasive action" after (unlike Erza and Eileen having 5 pages of covo lmao), they instantly had to move their ship. And within a flash, the parent dragon appeared from out of nowhere, destroyed that face, and left far into the horizon. If anything, this shows the absurd speed of the parent dragons, thanks for that panel lol.
And Ax has explained this part well (the trigger and reaction part), not going further into this.
Yea, when DS became a thing, it became a stalemate instead of bad dragons just taking their victory for granted
Because those were the panels provided to us. They showed us the humans and dragons being on battlefield
I didn't say it was 50 good dragons +DS vs 50 bad dragons. If I had to put a number, it probably was 30 good dragons + DS vs 50 bad dragons
What portrayal? She's called the mother of all dragons (or was it dragon slayers?) because she came up with the concept of dragon slaying magic, it wasn't because of her strength (not saying she wasn't strong, but the title itself has no relation to her power). I would bring in feats, but I know you'd completely deny dragon cry all together lol, we've done this before.
Yes, it was a war, there could be any number of combinations, including one ds (weaker than irene) fighting two dragons. Bad dragons werent out numbered like the way you are implying (atleast nothing in the manga suggests that)
Portrayal of her literally walking around and making aconologia talk to her (who mind you ignored serena talking)
Portrayal of aconologia being blown back (even while trying to maintain his position, even tenrou natsu couldnt do that gildarts) and saying this gonna be a fun.
Portrayal of aconologia being shocked by irene and asking her who she was
No? Why would I assume a character has four times the power of what they actually displayed.
Sure, they just died afterwards.
And my point still stands, if one could do it, then one should have done it. At the very least three should have done it and sent Grandeney to help Igneel.
Yes exactly, and FT didnt have that power. hence why Makarov said too late.
No it wasn't, countless Etherions was FTs plan.
I know, I'm simply saying that those feats dont impress me in the slightest.
You don't know it's the fastest FT speed feat, it has no comparison to anyone other than Tartaros FT. Crossing large distances means nothing to me, just means they have good travel speed, says nothing about their actual combat speed. Most FT characters can attack faster than the eye can see, but they can't travel that fast because they cant fly. And what I said about Brandish, she can enlarge characters to the size of countries, which means if she wanted to she could punch across an entire country, that kind of speed is Parent Dragon tier speed, and it similarly means nothing.
Pfft. and? The parent dragons attacks are more impressive than Wendy AND Cara then, big whoop.
Never said they were oneshot material. I also rank August and Eileen above Base Zeref.
Come on dude. Lets see an example. I break a slab with by fist, and show no signs of recoil or exhaustion. Can I break three more slabs? It's reasonable to assume yes.
Yea, they died because of unstable bodies, not because they were exhausted.
Maybe they were on a timer, since face constantly negated magic. I said earlier that this was a possibility as well.
i.e, Parent dragons performed at or above a level, while being affected by face, that Makarov expected FH to without face's effect.
Hmm, ok
Yes we do. Has anyone shown speed to cover continent in a minute? No. They destroyed ~ 750 faces within that timeframe as well, so that's combat speed (~ 12 faces destroyed per second, i.e they used 12 city level attacks per second).
Brandish's speed when she's potentially Adlo size, would come from her size. The parent dragons are probably just 20-50 time normal humans in dimension. There is a clear distinction here
Yes, it was a war, there could be any number of combinations, including one ds (weaker than irene) fighting two dragons. Bad dragons werent out numbered like the way you are implying (atleast nothing in the manga suggests that)
Portrayal of her literally walking around and making aconologia talk to her (who mind you ignored serena talking)
Portrayal of aconologia being blown back (even while trying to maintain his position, even tenrou natsu couldnt do that gildarts) and saying this gonna be a fun.
Portrayal of aconologia being shocked by irene and asking her who she was
Ok, and we have no proof for the opposite either. Everything about the old war is speculation, except that DS + allied dragons were stalemate with enemy dragons, until Acnologia showed up.
Jellol did everything Eileen did and more. Funny how those who use this to prop up Eileen generally shit on Jellol and treat him as fodder.
Acno didn't one shot Eileen because he didn't realize that she was a Dragon Slayer, so she wasn't on his hit-list at the time. Against Eileen, he wanted to play. When Acno faced Serena, he was serious and not even August could react - proving that even August is one shottable by Acnologia. And therefore Eileen is too by extension. Serious Acno one shots ANYONE in the series bar high/+ tier dragons and full power Natsu. Or, are you going to dispute that Eileen is one shottable by Acno as well, are we really going this direction?
This "Acno talking" used to be a thing, but later on he butchered it far too much for it to be relevant anymore. He talked to Wendy and to Jellol (not even a DS) as well, both of who are below God Serena. He later trash talked all 7 DS in the final battle as well.
Feats in dragon cry is an absolute rebuttal to the Eileen wank going on here. To continue with this, those arguing for Eileen must necessarily disregard dragon cry.
