Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2020] - Discussion and ToC Talk

[Shinuki no Reborn]

MANGAHELPERS "TOC" POLL ISSUE #51 - VOTING!​

The poll for issue #51 is now open, vote for your favorite chapters of the week clicking HERE!

Alongside the release of Sakamoto Days, the extra series this week are:

-Dragon Ball Super 66
-Boruto: Naruto Next Generations 52
-Ghost Reaper Girl 10

Good Votes!

 

[Halloween]

Moderator Notice:
Henceforth, I will be deleting posts that complain about Weekly Shonen Jump having too many/not enough gag/battle/exorcism/sports/etc series.

These posts are not insightful, and do not meaningfully contribute to this thread. Also, this decision is not up for discussion, so posts discussing this decision will also be deleted.~ Halloween

 

[Ryuusei]

Spoiler: 52 TOC & 01 Preview

呪 僕 O マ ブ S C D 破 C B 夜 C 僕 あ 灼 ぼ チ 高 ア 森 A 仄 ぼ 次号カラー ヒロアカ アンデラ 夜桜 約ネバ 道産子 GIGA 岸本先生が描くコラボポスター 爆豪クリアファイル

Spoiler: Issue #52 ToC & Preview

Jujutsu Kaisen (Cover & LCP)
My Hero Academia
One Piece
Mashle
Black Clover
Sakamoto Days (CP)
Dr. Stone
Magu-chan: God of Destruction (CP)
Build King
Mission: Yozakura Family
Me & Roboco
Ayakashi Triangle (CP)
Shakunetsu no Niraikanai
We Never Learn
Chainsaw Man
Koukousei Kazoku
Undead Unluck
Moriking
Agravity Boys
Honomieru Shounen
Bokura no Ketsumei

Issue #1
Cover & LCP: My Hero Academia
CP: Undead Unluck, Mission: Yozakura Family, The Promised Neverland, Dosanko Gyaru wa Namaramenkoi

GIGA Preview
Collab poster by Kishimoto
Bakugou clear file

 

[Stivie]

Why does it have to be a competition, i mean jump is in a dry spot right now, it needs as many hits as possible and to release anime pretty soon

It is the fault of shonen jump itself, which has always treated this as a competition.

But the question is who will win anime first:

Mashle
undead unluck
yozakura
ayakashi triangle

 

[savethecat]

Ober

It is the fault of shonen jump itself, which has always treated this as a competition.

But the question is who will win anime first:

Mashle
undead unluck
yozakura
ayakashi triangle

assuming any of them are getting anime at all, Yozakura is longer and has more material.

Also, the sales gap between all of them aren’t SO huge that it really matters which is selling slightly more than the others. All of them are pretty much in the same tier.

 

[taqzer]

Yeah so Build King was a huge step up from last weeks chapter for me. Way way better.
All Shimabu's strengths came forth much stronger.
And Sakamoto Days was great.

 

[Stivie]

Ober


assuming any of them are getting anime at all, Yozakura is longer and has more material.

Also, the sales gap between all of them aren’t SO huge that it really matters which is selling slightly more than the others. All of them are pretty much in the same tier.

It is true that yozakura has enough material to have an anime, but that does not always mean certainty.

I remember that yuuna won anime before hinomaru hummed because it sold better.

 

[NeeNeen]

That was SOOO much better! How did they take this little gem and turn it into something so thirteen-a-dozen?

I mean, I get making the MC less strong in the beginning so he has room to grow, but both the characters and the premise are significantly less interesting to me. Let's see if the second chapter can do better...

Build King 2:
- Looks like the house is gonna play a role after all.
- A wild Toriko appears!
- The house is a monster now. That doesn't talk. (The house was the most talkative and interesting character in the one-shot.)
- And our MCs are both declared special gifts of God even though they haven't done anything yet.

Yeah, no, this isn't gonna do it for me. I don't like the characters, the story feels cliche, the humour isn't my style and the world, while imaginative, isn't really offering anything new. I hope some others have fun with it, but if nothing changes I'll probably be dropping it after the third chapter.

Question for the people that do like it: what are the things you like most about it, and why? And do you like those things more or less than in the one-shot? I'm kinda curious how many people think it improved.

 

[James Rye]

It is the fault of shonen jump itself, which has always treated this as a competition.

But the question is who will win anime first:

Mashle
undead unluck
yozakura
ayakashi triangle

AT. Higher sales, more mouth to mouth propaganda due famous mangaka behind it, the others got too little sales or are from newbies, the studios might wait a while to see how they grow before offering anime adaption. That's my assumption at least.

 

[Tamil]

That was SOOO much better! How did they take this little gem and turn it into something so thirteen-a-dozen?

I mean, I get making the MC less strong in the beginning so he has room to grow, but both the characters and the premise are significantly less interesting to me. Let's see if the second chapter can do better...

Build King 2:
- Looks like the house is gonna play a role after all.
- A wild Toriko appears!
- The house is a monster now. That doesn't talk. (The house was the most talkative and interesting character in the one-shot.)
- And our MCs are both declared special gifts of God even though they haven't done anything yet.

Yeah, no, this isn't gonna do it for me. I don't like the characters, the story feels cliche, the humour isn't my style and the world, while imaginative, isn't really offering anything new. I hope some others have fun with it, but if nothing changes I'll probably be dropping it after the third chapter.

Question for the people that do like it: what are the things you like most about it, and why? And do you like those things more or less than in the one-shot? I'm kinda curious how many people think it improved.

I'm sure you can make more or less the same argument by comparing Toriko's one shot to it's first 2 chapters and find things you like a lot more in the one shot. It's not the best comparison, especially when there's like 2 chapters. At least let's leave this island and get introduced to the villians/combat system/etc before making these hasty conclusions about the series.

The main thing I like more about the one shot is the MC's design & the mecha houses. That's it and honestly there wasn't a whole lot other than that. Shimabu can easily give these duo MC's a makeover (which he will) and introduce mecha houses at some point so it's not a worry at all. I'm going to assume that if mecha houses are introduced they'll be like the pets in Toriko (Terry/Kiss/Quinn)

 

[yadayada]

Ober


assuming any of them are getting anime at all, Yozakura is longer and has more material.

Also, the sales gap between all of them aren’t SO huge that it really matters which is selling slightly more than the others. All of them are pretty much in the same tier.

No they're not lol, while Yozakura does better than pretty much half the magazine (damn does it feel sad to say this about a 20k seller in WSJ...) it's definitely a clear tier below Undead and especially Mashle, this isn't even arguable, just look at their monthlies

Mashle 3: 56,460
Undead 3: 49,432
Yozakura 4: 22,826

Not to mention Mashle's backlogs consistently manage to track on shoseki meaning you can expect good VoV growths, Yozakura's don't, which is why it only gets small bumps VoV. Placing Yozakura in the same tier as 2 series it sells less than half of is...odd.

 

[tirakai]

Speaking of which, I'm pretty curious to see the November monthly chart. We'll see how much Yozakura has grown this new volume, and get to see a more proper idea of how much the 3 newbies sold over time (if they make it on the chart of course, hopefully they do).

 

[savethecat]

No they're not lol, while Yozakura does better than pretty much half the magazine (damn does it feel sad to say this about a 20k seller in WSJ...) it's definitely a clear tier below Undead and especially Mashle, this isn't even arguable, just look at their monthlies

Mashle 3: 56,460
Undead 3: 49,432
Yozakura 4: 22,826

Not to mention Mashle's backlogs consistently manage to track on shoseki meaning you can expect good VoV growths, Yozakura's don't, which is why it only gets small bumps VoV. Placing Yozakura in the same tier as 2 series it sells less than half of is...odd.

I personally consider anything under 100K in a month the same tier.. in terms of manga sales, 20-50K isn’t THAT huge of a gap.

God Tier = 1Mil+
Top Tier = 500K+
Great Tier = 100K+
Decent/Solid Tier = 10K+
Flop Tier = under 10K

Granted, the sales for all of these series will probably grow by the time any of them are prepared to announce an anime. But point is I don’t think when deciding what gets and what doesn’t get an anime they’re like “Oh this one series sells 20K more than this other series, so it gets an anime first”.

 

[Minsel]

Speaking of which, I'm pretty curious to see the November monthly chart. We'll see how much Yozakura has grown this new volume, and get to see a more proper idea of how much the 3 newbies sold over time (if they make it on the chart of course, hopefully they do).

my bet is Yozakura gets 29k for November

 

[tirakai]

20k-30k is a pretty big difference when it means more than double the sales numbers. Even 5k is a notable jump if sales are small enough, just look at how long Agravity Boys is lasting despite spending almost its whole run in the bottom 3 simply because it's selling 10k compared to new flops getting 5k or under.

There's a reason Mashle and Undead have had a second cover each but Yozakura hasn't.

 

[yadayada]

I personally consider anything under 100K in a month the same tier.. in terms of manga sales, 20-50K isn’t THAT huge of a gap.

God Tier = 1Mil+
Top Tier = 500K+
Great Tier = 100K+
Decent/Solid Tier = 10K+
Flop Tier = under 10K

Granted, the sales for all of these series will probably grow by the time any of them are prepared to announce an anime. But point is I don’t think when deciding what gets and what doesn’t get an anime they’re like “Oh this one series sells 20K more than this other series, so it gets an anime first”.

Reducing the gap between Mashle as "this sells 20k more" when the reality of their situation is that Mashle experiences solid growths and is expected to become and treated like a hit while Yozakura isn't is odd. It's not about where they are now, but rather the pace they move at and where they are realistically expected to land a few more volumes in. Hell, Yoza's sales in WSJ wouldn't even warrant an anime in normal conditions (and I'm still not sure they really would unless it starts growing more down the line, which as of now it's showing no signs of), the only reason we can even have this discussion is that the mag status is abnormal as of now due to the ridicolous amount of flops it's currently filled with. Yozakura is in the odd position between being a hit and being a flop where it's really neither of the 2.

I also don't see how 10k monthly is "Decent/Solid" in WSJ. That's still very much axebait territory.

 

[savethecat]

Reducing the gap between Mashle as "this sells 20k more" when the reality of their situation is that Mashle experiences solid growths and is expected to become and treated like a hit while Yozakura isn't is odd. It's not about where they are now, but rather the pace they move at and where they are realistically expected to land a few more volumes in. Hell, Yoza's sales in WSJ wouldn't even warrant an anime in normal conditions (and I'm still not sure they really would unless it starts growing more down the line, which as of now it's showing no signs of), the only reason we can even have this discussion is that the mag status is abnormal as of now due to the ridicolous amount of flops it's currently filled with. Yozakura is in the odd position between being a hit and being a flop where it's really neither of the 2.

I also don't see how 10k monthly is "Decent/Solid" in WSJ. That's still very much axebait territory.

The tiers change over time. The standards of what is great and what isn’t so great is fluctuates throughout the years for Jump.

Obviously Yozakura would have been axed in different circumstances. But as of now, it’s been in the magazine for over a year, been getting healthy placements and color pages as of late and it’s clear that it’s not going anywhere anytime soon. It’s rocky start is irrelevant, when it a longer series in a healthy state now

It’s just silly to say that they decide the order of adaptations based on 30K differences in sales. They likely just come when
A. A studio is interested in adapting the series
B. There’s enough material for a healthy production
C. The timeslots align.

On top of that. The order we get Anime announcements may not even be the order they’ve been picked up for an anime. For all we know all 3 could have anime talks in the works

 

[Shinuki no Reborn]

Volume sales doesn't really matter when it comes to a manga getting a anime adaptation, "100-man no Inochi no Ue ni Ore wa Tatteiru" from Bessatsu Shonen Magazine is having a anime airing now, reportedly improving the manga sales but the last volume released on September (a month before the anime) didn't even appeared in the Oricon Top 50 with 5 days, on Shoseki did "17,308", less than Yozakura #5, and this is only 1 example from the current season. Shueisha/SJ don't have to wait for any studio to be "interested", if they want to, they can just fund it themselves and hire a studio, also no one here really knows about what is going on behind the scenes, anime adaptations can be (reportedly) decided even before the first volume of a series is released, so as we speak now, maybe a Yozakura anime is already decided or even in production and we just don't know yet, same applies to Mashle or Undead.

 

[tirakai]

I'd say, for current WSJ, the tiers for newer series are probably like

<3k ------------ total flop
3k to 5k ------- flop (but could survive a couple batches if it gets lucky)
5k to 10k ------ eventual axe bait (but might survive a year or so if it places well or gets lucky with worse flops)
10k to 20k ----- acceptable (as long as it can at least keep stable)
20k to 30k ----- successful (but might not get much promotion if it doesn't grow)
40k+ ----------- big future hit (unless sales don't drop)

Though it's hard to say how things will be even a year from now due to the magazine currently being in an odd state with very few long running hits, and soon to be even fewer.

Maybe Roboco and Magu-chan for example have already done well enough to guarantee a 1st anniversary even if sales drop a bit, or maybe WSJ could get really brutal on the newbies in 2021. and cancel everything that's not at least close to 20k.

How did Yozakura v1 sell anyway? To compare with Roboco and Magu.

 

[Shinuki no Reborn]

I'd say, for current WSJ, the tiers for newer series are probably like

<3k ------------ total flop
3k to 5k ------- flop (but could survive a couple batches if it gets lucky)
5k to 10k ------ eventual axe bait (but might survive a year or so if it places well or gets lucky with worse flops)
10k to 20k ----- acceptable (as long as it can at least keep stable)
20k to 30k ----- successful (but might not get much promotion if it doesn't grow)
40k+ ----------- big future hit (unless sales don't drop)

Though it's hard to say how things will be even a year from now due to the magazine currently being in an odd state with very few long running hits, and soon to be even fewer.

Maybe Roboco and Magu-chan for example have already done well enough to guarantee a 1st anniversary even if sales drop a bit, or maybe WSJ could get really brutal on the newbies in 2021. and cancel everything that's not at least close to 20k.

How did Yozakura v1 sell anyway? To compare with Roboco and Magu.

14k in the month according to Shoseki

 

[tirakai]

Got curious about cancellations, so I figured I'd look how up many series have been cancelled each year.

2020 - 8 axes (unless something ends next issue)
2019 - 7 axes (counting I'm From Japan as an axed series)
2018 - 13 axes (Lycopene I think transferred by choice)
2017 - 7 axes (Dance Club I think had a natural early end)
2016 - 5 axes
2015 - 12 axes
2014 - 10 axes
2013 - 10 axes
2012 - 8 axes
2011 - 7 axes
2010 - 9 axes (unless you count Psyren?)

quick check of years before that as well makes it look like the usual number is 7-11 series axed per year, but sometimes there's a couple more and sometimes a couple less.

 

[Aipom626]

Now that we've seen all of the new series that will premiere for the 2020 WSJ year, how would you guys rank all of the 2020 premieres purely by their first chapters? If I had to rank them, I'd place them like this:

1. Magu-chan: God of Destruction
2. Undead Unluck
3. Sakamoto Days
4. Ayakashi Triangle
5. Moriking
6. Mashle
7. High School Family
8. Me & Roboco
9. Agravity Boys
10. Hardboiled Cop and Dolphin
11. Burn the Witch
12. Phantom Seer
13. Build King
14. Bone Collection
15. Time Paradox Ghostwriter
16. Guardian of the Witch
17. Zipman!!
18. Our Blood Oath

Trying to think through this list made me realize that I didn't really like too many of the series' first chapters this past year since even some first chapters that I didn't like all that much still made it into the top half of my rankings.

There were some of these that grew on me over time, but most of the others continued to lose even more steam over time. Biggest favorable surprise has to go to Mashle. I found the artwork pretty off-putting and the jokes from the first few chapters bland, but after a handful of chapters, the cast and humor started to gel together.

Biggest disappointment of the year goes to Time Paradox Ghostwriter. I was massively hyped for Date's return, but the main character was so wildly unlikeable and the plot was so poorly executed that I couldn't help but feel relived when I saw it was ending since Date could do the art for a much better series (never forget the volume 2 cover lol).

 

[Shinuki no Reborn]

Now that we've seen all of the new series that will premiere for the 2020 WSJ year, how would you guys rank all of the 2020 premieres purely by their first chapters? If I had to rank them, I'd place them like this:

1. Magu-chan: God of Destruction
2. Undead Unluck
3. Sakamoto Days
4. Ayakashi Triangle
5. Moriking
6. Mashle
7. High School Family
8. Me & Roboco
9. Agravity Boys
10. Hardboiled Cop and Dolphin
11. Burn the Witch
12. Phantom Seer
13. Build King
14. Bone Collection
15. Time Paradox Ghostwriter
16. Guardian of the Witch
17. Zipman!!
18. Our Blood Oath

Trying to think through this list made me realize that I didn't really like too many of the series' first chapters this past year since even some first chapters that I didn't like all that much still made it into the top half of my rankings.

There were some of these that grew on me over time, but most of the others continued to lose even more steam over time. Biggest favorable surprise has to go to Mashle. I found the artwork pretty off-putting and the jokes from the first few chapters bland, but after a handful of chapters, the cast and humor started to gel together.

Biggest disappointment of the year goes to Time Paradox Ghostwriter. I was massively hyped for Date's return, but the main character was so wildly unlikeable and the plot was so poorly executed that I couldn't help but feel relived when I saw it was ending since Date could do the art for a much better series (never forget the volume 2 cover lol).

But isn't you talking about only the first chapter? TPG first chapter was like the most hyped and praised first chapter of the year in this forum.