Chapter Tower of God Chapter 485 Spoilers & Discussion

[O_n_Sly]

SIU I really need you here! Chainsaw Man just ended, time for ToG to start back up PLEASE!

 

[Brian Taboada]

SIU I really need you here! Chainsaw Man just ended, time for ToG to start back up PLEASE!

This is it. This week we will finally see a new episode!

 

[brzytki]

This is it. This week we will finally see a new episode!

I sure hope so.

 

[FoolishWisdom]

This is it. This week we will finally see a new episode!

Sadly, I doubt it. SIU said that he would announce when it will be first, and that announcement has not yet come. Hopefully, he announces this weekend, but I would not count on it. He earlier predicted in December, but he was intentionally imprecise.

I recommend patience, my friends.

 

[Turtle hunter]

probably Enryu would have died if he faced zahard along with 10 other irregulars.

It can seems impossible to you .

But look how Urek needed Baam help to defeat Hell joe , irregular are unrivaled because of they shinsoo manipulation , when faced with a guardian they habve no shinsoo , wkch mean they far weaker than they curent self , if they could use shinsoo they would maybe have a chance , but without shinso no chance . People speak about body , but even that will be weakened without shinsoo .

a guardian should easily kill 11 iregular , for Enryuu we easily defeated the guardian , it should way too easy to him to defeat them .

 

[King Dryst]

But look how Urek needed Baam help to defeat Hell joe

He didn't. Baam was daddy's special little helper in that fight. Let's not pretend as though Joe posed any sort of actual threat to Mazino.

 

[Brian Taboada]

He didn't. Baam was daddy's special little helper in that fight. Let's not pretend as though Joe posed any sort of actual threat to Mazino.

I was under the impression that Urek was preventing massive collateral damage when asking for Baams help. Urek could have crushed the red thyresa

 

[King Dryst]

I was under the impression that Urek was preventing massive collateral damage when asking for Baams help. Urek could have crushed the red thyresa

Not so much that as that having Baam's cooperation made it much easier for him to deal with Joe in the exact manner he wished to (removing the Thryssa while sparing Joe's life). He still could have just crushed the battle completely if Joe's safety were removed as a consideration, and that was only ever an issue because Urek chose to care about it. But all of that aside, it's not strictly true that Urek needed Baam there to be able to deal with Hell Joe.

 

[MO7DSH]

Guys , you are forgetting, that he used only like what 1% from his power

 

[Turtle hunter]

He didn't. Baam was daddy's special little helper in that fight. Let's not pretend as though Joe posed any sort of actual threat to Mazino.

Yes Urek was stronger of course , but still he needed Baam cooperation to fly , it clearly show that you are clearly limited without shinsoo .
I mean i don't know why people debate that being unable to use Shinsoo make you far weaker than you are . Even him using 10 percent on semeone like HJ is too much .

People like Kallavan with shinsoo can kill HJ with not that much power too .

wich show that figting semeone without shinsoo even if they are weaker than you without shinsoo is difficult . Like Urek without shinsoo , would have trouble against someone who is in top 50 .

 

[shaheer]

But look how Urek needed Baam help to defeat Hell joe

Who knows what other irregulars can do? We barely know 1% of what the irregulars are capable of given how scanty we know about them. One can easily just throw in Gustang creating an alternate form of shinso machine which can generate shinso or mimic thorn and thus admins can't do much to restrict without retconning a single element in the story. We can find Zahard to have admin-level capacity of generating shinso without retconning. So it is a bit of a stretch to think nearly every irregular teaming up together will get defeated for sure. The power scale doesn't make much sense to me. I can find Enryu to be stronger than Zahard no problem. Probably stronger than 3 or 4 irregulars but all of the family head combined. that requires a bit more substantiation for me. I wouldn't be overly surprised given the scanty info but i m not expecting that level of a gap either.

 

[projectX]

There is too much difference between ireegulars and rankers power levels.Do we know for a ranker to kill or defeat irregular(not counting Baam) ?Irregulars are like gods among mortals.That why it was not serious that FUG slayer will kill or defeat irregulars.They never have the chance from begining not only with the difference in power but with immortal contract with guardians and 10 family heads.Only Baam and Urek Mazano can kill the 10 family heads.

 

[sazon]

Which leads me to the Yeon Fire lore Evenkhell explained.... So it’s obvious AA has the “healing” flame and Ehwa maybe has the “destructive?” But can AA’s flame still burn shit up?? Or only him? Lol

Perhaps it is the same scheme of the powers of EVK, She has the normal flame and the flame that burns Shinsoo. AA has the flame of the Yeon family ranker and can use it as a normal flame (at the beginning of Season 3 he burned Rak's feet during a climb test) and can activate the special healing power. BTW, I think only Hana has both types.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 13, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 13, 2020 ---

One of the issues is that ToG, unlike most other works, contains an insane amount of tiers and gaps. Even if you're extremely talented and stand on a whole another level compared to your peers, you can still find some folks who complete outclasses you, who in turn are literal fodders compared to some higher class beings, etc and the list goes on.

If we take D-class regulars are an example. We've already got Sachi as a top-3 among the tens of hundred millions (or maybe even billions) of D-class regulars. As such, you can say that he standout as "la crème de la crème" as noted in upper posts. Regardless, Elaine, who is also a top-3 D-class, was portrayed to stand on a whole another league and the amount of difficulty she gave Baam even with the Thorn was a major proof of her powers. In fact, this same Elaine is still weaker than Shilial and Lilial who were widely known as the strongest among the top-3 D-class (which is normal since they're princesses from the 10 GFs).

Now, the gaps were even more visible in the hidden floor when we got the D-class version of multiple future top 300 HRs. Just by listing their feats, we can already notice the massive gaps between "extremely" talented ("la crème de la crème) indivduals themslves :

-Endorsi : she was seen running away from the giant soldier even with the help of Hansung, struddling against a champion villain due to his great durability and shinsu resistance. Thorn Baam, Hansung and Endorsi needed to combine their powers to beat the statue of good and evil.

-Khun+Sachi+Rak+Boro+Hockney : even as a team, they were struggling a lot against the giant octopus and only neutralized him because of the environmental advantage since there was a whole in which they could trap him in the nearby area. Otherwise, they were just overwhelmed by his insane power and speed.

-Khun Marco Asencio : future branch head of the Khun family (so top 300 HR most likely), he defeated Chrome cutter who was noted to stand on a whole another level compared to the octupus that Khun+Sachi+Rak+Boro+Hockney struggled against. What's more so, he defeated it very easily without even using his true skills (the flying fish spear) which represent his signature name in the future as a HR.
Asencio also fought the Big Breeder Jeok on equal terms. As we know, the big breeders were like gods or admins in the hidden floor and controled everything in there. So, either the chrome cutter, the giant octopus, the giant solider, the statue of good and devil or anything these "top-notch" regulars fought and had a hard time against (either individually or as a group) are fodder tier in front of Asencio.
In fact, even among the big breeders themselves, there're gaps, Chung was noted to be much weaker than Jeok who in turn is much weaker than Yellow. Asencio fighting on par with the second strongest of them is an insanely huge feat.

-Yu Hansung : he once died to the stone general, which represents just a part of the big breeder Jeok's arsenal and even with the help of Khun AA, he still noted that their best shot was to run away when facing it. Said otherwise, Hansung + Khun combined were literal fodders compared to Asencio in a direct fight. It also shows the massive difference separaing a future standad HR compared to a top 300 potentiality.

-Maschenny : she one shotted the big breeder Jeok in base with Asencio admitting that he pales in comparision. With Redan, she got multiple times stronger and faster. Yet, there was still a bottomless gap between her and Jahad or the 10 FHs at the same stage.

Overall the hidden floor is a great arc for showing the large amount of gaps and tiers between top regulars themselves. And it makes sens, it's not like top folks with top 300 potentiality will show themselves in every area. Only 300 or so emerged to be this strong in the whole several tens of thousands of years of the Jahad's empire after all, yet there're still bottomless gaps even among the these same top 300.

We also have a great grasp of their potentiality if they follow a traditional tower climb and grew for at least several thousands of years as Rankers :
-Standard High Ranker potentiality : Yu Hansung
-"Maybe" a bit more than standard HR : Endorsi (SIU noted that she is warm and human compared to other princesses)

(extremely massive, bottomeless gap)

-top 300 HR : Asencio, Icardi

(massive gap)

-one of the strongest princesses who own a 13 month : Maschenny

(extremely massive, bottomeless gap)
-Jahad and the 10 GFs.

Also, there's a doubt whether or not even someone like Sachi has a "low HR" potential, unlike the others, he grew for at least 600 years to reach his current level. In fact, there's a very low chance of it. Just because he's a top-3 D-class, it still doesn't imply he can become a HR in the future. There're only 1000 HR and mathematically speaking, if all top regulars of each class (F to A) have to become HR in the future, we should've had faaaaaar more than just 1000 HRs within the whole tens of thousands of history of the Jahad empire.
Which is yet another proof that being "la crème de la crème" amoung your peers isn't even remotely enough as a proof for having just this much potential, entry HR level, folks like Khul Nissame Kay or Dorian Frog, that is.

Khun and Rak were certainly top-notch regulars, that's for sure, but they weren't even strong enough to be called top-5 E-class or top-3 D-class, SIU kind implied that in a blogpost :
"There aren't really many regulars with the highest level of combat skill other than Baam, Endorsi, and Sachi in team Baam...
In Khun's case, he becomes OP if he uses Enna Core, but that should be regarded as an exception"
Source
Said otherwise, If they just followed their normal climb, even dreaming of an entry HR was impossible for them and would wreck the power balance that SIU built so far.

As we know, Maschenny, Yasratcha, Doom, Yamah, etc, all of them were still

Yes, certainly both Khun and Rak had a huge power up in the hidden floor, they discovered qualities fitting them, exceptional qualities at that, but for them to jump to even entry Ranker level like that. Maybe it's a little bit rought, but that'd be a bullshit, a terribly bad writing.

As we know, even Doom, someone who was top 200 in his prime and knew at least two top 100 in power (Yamah and Yasratcha), said that it's absolutly impossible for a regular to beat a Ranker, no matter how strong he is. And as we know, only Adori, a single digit in the ranking, and irregulars managed to do this much while climbing the tower. what's more, this same Adori only managed to beat a Ranker as a fucking A-class regular and is considered to stand on a whole another level compared to other princesses (Maschenny included).
Said otherwise, Maschenny as a regular on the 133rd floor was still total fodder to low level Rankers like Pan.

Was learning shinsu qualities such a huge power up for Rak and Khun that they become even remotely close to D-class Data Maschenny ? As we know, Maschenny already learned about a quality fitting her ages ago (lightening spear) and she could apply it in both forms (both internal and external quality control), what's more so she is a Jahad princess from the 10 GFs. Both her background and displayed power doesn't suggest that Khun and Rak, even with their qualities, became somehow comparable to her in power.
This same Maschenny was still fodder compared to Pan even after climbing like 90 floors as a regular (since clearing the hell train).
It may be a little rought but it's not a mere 2 years-growth that would allow them to even become remotely close to the weakest Ranker in existence. 2 years is nothing more than a glimps of the eye in tower :
-"5 years in the Tower is not long at all". Source

-"Also, 6 years is not a long time in the Tower. To us it's about 1-2 years ? There are fewer days in the year and people live longer, so time feels different. As people become Rankers, the difference in their perception of time gets even bigger.". Source

-"Because the flow of time is so long in Tower of God, 1 or 2 years might seem as if it's nothing, and that's true. To Regulars, 1 or 2 years isn't that great of a time period. Actually after they have become E-rank Regulars, there are plenty of those who hippity hop play around 3-40 years until they take the test again.". Source
Let alone as C-class regulars, more especially in Khun's case who was asleep (in a coma state) all the time.

Now, as noted above, maybe SIU can pull up some power ups out of nowhere (like the Yeon flame for Khun), but this sounds false already. As if he just distributes random and free buffs in a clumsy way just to make them relevant somehow in the main cast.
Well, maybe SIU can play with the ancient status of Rak, something like "most of his power was sealed crap" to justify a sudden growth but for Khun, nothing comes to mind and it would be very very difficult to come up with something tangible as far as I'm concerned.

As for the "walking a completly new path" matter, that only applies to Baam, not his friends it's not like Khun, Rak and the others were incdluded in Hwaryun's statement.

I agree with most of what you said, I don't even know why people are considering the idea of any of Baam's friends fighting rankers before they are at least rank-A regulars.

But some corrections, it is not because the top 3 of the Baam team at that time was Baam, Androssi and Sachi that this makes AA and Rak weak, leaving the first two aside for obvious reasons, Sachi is not just a veteran regular as a user of spells and we’ve known for a long time that they have an advantage over that. Furthermore, it has already been said that AA who plucked the eye out of that guy in the top 5 rank-E who walks with Quaetro and AA made it clear that the guy couldn't beat him, not to mention that Rak was isolated during that time, he didn't stand out like the rest, based on that ranking says nothing.

I see a lot of people using HF's Koon trio to compare with Baam's friends at that point, which I don't see any sense of. It has already been made clear that the regulars of the 10 families have been trained since young (AA himself skipped these training sessions) in addition to family contracts, that is, they already have a tremendous advantage. Just looking at Ran, Novick, Laure and Irure from an early age have already learned shinsoo manipulation and techniques from their families / branches. To say that Androssi cannot possibly reach Maschenny or that many do not reach the top 300 or 100 due to the performance in the HF is not something concrete in my view.

As I said in another comment, their ascent is already atypical, learning to manipulate their Shinsoo qualities and training with rankers and high-rankers, not to mention yes, if we take out Wangnan, all of Baam's friends are talented in their respective areas .

I don't see them defeating rankers while regulars, much less facing the FH, but it doesn't mean they can't get high rankings, Doom, if I'm not mistaken, I already entered the top 200 as soon as I became a ranker.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 13, 2020 ---

There is too much difference between ireegulars and rankers power levels.Do we know for a ranker to kill or defeat irregular(not counting Baam) ?Irregulars are like gods among mortals.That why it was not serious that FUG slayer will kill or defeat irregulars.They never have the chance from begining not only with the difference in power but with immortal contract with guardians and 10 family heads.Only Baam and Urek Mazano can kill the 10 family heads.

This is quite debatable, I think at the moment the biggest fandom debate. We know that from the top 300 onwards, the ranking is given mostly by force, so why are there regulars ranked above some FH? Actually, due to the contract with ADM, only irregulars can kill FH, but that doesn't mean that in fact Adori, Enne, Luslec, Molic or Baek Ryun cannot be stronger than certain FH.

I agree with it? Not so far, but there is room for debate.

 

[Turtle hunter]

Who knows what other irregulars can do? We barely know 1% of what the irregulars are capable of given how scanty we know about them. One can easily just throw in Gustang creating an alternate form of shinso machine which can generate shinso or mimic thorn and thus admins can't do much to restrict without retconning a single element in the story. We can find Zahard to have admin-level capacity of generating shinso without retconning. So it is a bit of a stretch to think nearly every irregular teaming up together will get defeated for sure. The power scale doesn't make much sense to me. I can find Enryu to be stronger than Zahard no problem. Probably stronger than 3 or 4 irregulars but all of the family head combined. that requires a bit more substantiation for me. I wouldn't be overly surprised given the scanty info but i m not expecting that level of a gap either.

power level are more big in TOG than you think , for example Zahard being able to figth 3 irregular if they are the weakest for me , is not impossible for me .

One thing that people need to understand is that in TOG , the most important thing is Shinsoo , if semeone have better affinity or autority over shinsoo they can defeat you . Shinso is source of all power , hence without it , you ae just reduced to the shadow that you <was .

It is not a question of power level , if irregular were able to use shinsoo i wouldn't say that . But they can't use what ùake them so dominant . Guardian can take they shinsoo . So they are realy far from they full strength witout shinso .

Just picture , semeone figting who has nuclear bomb , figting semeone with also nuclear bomb , the second one rob the rfrits guy of his nuclear and let him with only regular bomb . The guy with nuclear bomb , will obviously stomp the one without , and whatever they number it , it won't change .

Other than that they are immortal , and we know only torn can kill them , the same way only torn can defeat Zahard .

And what did Enryuu he stomped a guardian without difficulty .

You don't understand what having superior autority over shinsoo means do you ? It means that whatever shinsoo is produced or in a whole floor you can't use it , becausqe they are guardian propriety .

No other than HJ no one can have autority as strong as a guadian even Zahard .

The power scale is already fucked dude , you have a family who can kill all living of a whole floor , just because she can use all the shinsoo of a whoe floor .

You have guardian , you have Axis .

It is not for nothing that we shouldn't count people who are superiro to Zahard in term of power scale , they make no sense and are basically shit code , like i could see Baam defeating Zahard , but for Enryuu and Phanta , we can only pray if we whant him .

I mean for me a FH can take multiple no irregular even if they are in top 10 .

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 13, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 13, 2020 ---

Perhaps it is the same scheme of the powers of EVK, She has the normal flame and the flame that burns Shinsoo. AA has the flame of the Yeon family ranker and can use it as a normal flame (at the beginning of Season 3 he burned Rak's feet during a climb test) and can activate the special healing power. BTW, I think only Hana has both types.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 13, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 13, 2020 ---

I agree with most of what you said, I don't even know why people are considering the idea of any of Baam's friends fighting rankers before they are at least rank-A regulars.

But some corrections, it is not because the top 3 of the Baam team at that time was Baam, Androssi and Sachi that this makes AA and Rak weak, leaving the first two aside for obvious reasons, Sachi is not just a veteran regular as a user of spells and we’ve known for a long time that they have an advantage over that. Furthermore, it has already been said that AA who plucked the eye out of that guy in the top 5 rank-E who walks with Quaetro and AA made it clear that the guy couldn't beat him, not to mention that Rak was isolated during that time, he didn't stand out like the rest, based on that ranking says nothing.

I see a lot of people using HF's Koon trio to compare with Baam's friends at that point, which I don't see any sense of. It has already been made clear that the regulars of the 10 families have been trained since young (AA himself skipped these training sessions) in addition to family contracts, that is, they already have a tremendous advantage. Just looking at Ran, Novick, Laure and Irure from an early age have already learned shinsoo manipulation and techniques from their families / branches. To say that Androssi cannot possibly reach Maschenny or that many do not reach the top 300 or 100 due to the performance in the HF is not something concrete in my view.

As I said in another comment, their ascent is already atypical, learning to manipulate their Shinsoo qualities and training with rankers and high-rankers, not to mention yes, if we take out Wangnan, all of Baam's friends are talented in their respective areas .

I don't see them defeating rankers while regulars, much less facing the FH, but it doesn't mean they can't get high rankings, Doom, if I'm not mistaken, I already entered the top 200 as soon as I became a ranker.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 13, 2020 ---

This is quite debatable, I think at the moment the biggest fandom debate. We know that from the top 300 onwards, the ranking is given mostly by force, so why are there regulars ranked above some FH? Actually, due to the contract with ADM, only irregulars can kill FH, but that doesn't mean that in fact Adori, Enne, Luslec, Molic or Baek Ryun cannot be stronger than certain FH.

I agree with it? Not so far, but there is room for debate.

Training in TOG off god as pratically no impact , it give you experience and you can better technique but that is all ; all end with Shinsoo , you need talent .

Ran don't like to train .

most HR as far as we k,ow don't train .

Maschenny is way out of Androssi league , i mean Androssi just being able to stand against lillial and Shilial , given they have purer blooc , would be a big accomplishement .

No one can look at how strong Maschenny was and compare her to Androssi , other than that there is nothing that show that she did train .

If Androssi have that level as a ragular i would be glad . and sshe did that at C class regular .

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 13, 2020 ---

Will there really be a chapter this week ?

 

[shaheer]

No other than HJ no one can have autority as strong as a guadian even Zahard

You know this how?

 

[zamki]

TOG is dying , but the weird thing is I no longer care . I will still read it when It is finally back but I hope everything is fine with the author .

 

[Turtle hunter]

You know this how?

Red thryssa autority come from a guardian , so obviously if you are not a guardian yourself you will be defensless . Other than that we know that non ireegualr like Yuri and even irregular like Urek can't by pass a guardian authority .

Only Enryuu and Phanta should be abld to .

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 13, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 13, 2020 ---

TOG is dying , but the weird thing is I no longer care . I will still read it when It is finally back but I hope everything is fine with the author .

I mean 8 months of break is quite a lot .

I expect that he is well when he come back .

 

[Jedikos]

And the hiatus continues...

Google translation:

Hello, this is SIU

The Tower of God was originally working in November to rerun the serialization.

While working on the return manuscript, pain in my right arm came up and I was examined at the hospital.

At the time, the test results were not serious, so the decision was made to postpone the republishing for several weeks.

The pain got worse, so I was treated again at another large hospital.

Tested again over the course of several weeks and found other abnormalities

I have been diagnosed with a diagnosis that if this problem is left unattended, it can lead to lifelong pain and discomfort in both work and daily life.

And in order not to do that, it was the opinion of the doctor that for about half a year, if you do not overdo it, you can prevent the body from deforming and return to normal.

In this situation, when I was told that I had to rest for about half a year, I had a lot of worries.

It was because I had already made more than 10 episodes of the manuscript for my return, and I had readers who were waiting and a studio to keep.

The idea that the longer the rest period might not be good for my work made me even more difficult.

So I tried the method of returning to a way of reducing work right away, but the pain was still there.

If you return to this state and fail to come up with a proper work,

As a human being who needs to take care of one's own body, as a writer, I thought it was an undesirable behavior.

So, after several weeks of thought, I finally decided to extend the suspension.

Too difficult,

Many people who have waited like this are written apologizing and asking for a little more.

I also had to stay with the manuscript I made hard, and this situation where many people will be disappointed is difficult and troubled,

Time is always fast after passing, so I decided to trust it again.

However, we are sorry and regret that we cannot give you any good news these days.

We will do our best to rest and manage well so that we can return to a good shape.

Although the drawing arm will be difficult to use for the time being

In various forms, I am helped by other people

We will do our best to give you pleasure with good direction.

I will return to the series in about 6 months.

Always be happy and healthy

Thank you.

ps. We sincerely apologize for the delay in the accurate notification due to the uncertain physical condition above.

Sorry ㅜ


Source:

 

[shaheer]

Red thryssa autority come from a guardian , so obviously if you are not a guardian yourself you will be defensless . Other than that we know that non ireegualr like Yuri and even irregular like Urek can't by pass a guardian authority .

we know one irregular could : Enryu. We know another irregular couldnt: Urek. How do you know another irregular cant?

 

[King Dryst]

Yeah, at this point I think I'm just about to give this story up for dead. Delay upon delay upon delay. SIU's paying the price for overworking himself for a decade.