One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[HereNThere]

I saw that being discussed on Reddit.

Oh no, I remember the discussion. I saw it too a while back I just don't understand how that they got that interpretation from the book.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 10, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 10, 2020 ---

That was a poor translation from Worst Gen that started that.

Ah, that explains everything.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Oh no, I remember the discussion. I saw it too a while back I just don't understand how that they got that interpretation from the book.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 10, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 10, 2020 ---

Ah, that explains everything.

Yeah its unfortunate because so many sword boys spread it a while ago that its the standard in all Mihawk vs Shanks discussions now.

"ACE'S NOVEL SHOWS US...."

That sort of thing.

 

[Ramen]

Yeah its unfortunate because so many sword boys spread it a while ago that its the standard in all Mihawk vs Shanks discussions now.

"ACE'S NOVEL SHOWS US...."

That sort of thing.

If were being honest though, there is a case to be made that he's the weakest tbh.

 

[HereNThere]

"ACE'S NOVEL SHOWS US...."

That sort of thing.

I know. They tend to be pretty picky in what additional media is considered canon or not.

 

[Pirate Queen]

If were being honest though, there is a case to be made that he's the weakest tbh.

There really isn't since we don't know his full combat capabilities. But Clashing with Akainu, Whitebeard and POSSIBLY Kaido paints a different story.

I won't get into it too much since mods will jump down my throat, by my point is there is no evidence in the Ace Novel to definitely say he is the weakest.

 

[XXGenesis]

Do they confirm that Shanks is the weakest of the OG Yonko?

No. I don't even understand how that particular summary reached that conclusion. It just reiterates that he's the newest one.

It refers to Law statement that The Yonkou run the NW.

There’s an edict to be followed when entering the NW. The YonKou literally run everything through their networks & allies. If a pirate doesn’t stay out their way or per say behave themselves they will be either crushed or absorbed into their crew.

Shanks managed to survive in the NW not upsetting any of the Emperors, gathering his power until he became a Yonkou. But he was the only Pirate do so, and in such a non-confrontational manner.

Also something about Mihawk already being famous. With Shanks I guess having less reputation, gained notoriety from challenging him.

 

[HereNThere]

Shanks managed to survive in the NW not upsetting any of the Emperors, gathering his power until he became a Yonkou. But he was the only Pirate do so, and in such a non-confrontational manner.

That's really it. Nothing to indicate that he's weaker than peers.

Also something about Mihawk already being famous. With Shanks I guess having less reputation, gained notoriety from challenging him.

Don't want this to turn into a huge discussion, but the book never confirms whether Mihawk had the title during their duels. While their duels were referenced in past tense, his title was always used in present tense.

 

[M3J]

Zoro and Sanji cannot, and won't defeat the All-Stars in this arc.

1. Their record in this arc is not so great.

For example, Kyoshiro easily overpowered Zoro, and X Drake was unaffected by Sanji's kicks. If they were to defeat the All-Stars, it would be inconsistent.

Also wouldn't make any opponent that gave them trouble (Hawkins, Page One or Apoo) incredibly poweful?

2. Their progress against the Commanders will mirror Luffy's progress against the Emperors themselves

Luffy is not going to fight Kaido alone in this arc. However, everything indicated that the time will come, when he will have to fight Blackbeard 1-on-1.

When that happens, Zoro will fight Shiryu. If he defeated someone like King before, then Shiryu would not be a challenge.

I mean, didn't Luffy and Zoro get tossed by Lucci (and Kaku?) on Water 7? And when Sanji fought Blueno, he wasn't able to take out Blueno either, but later they managed to beat Lucci, Kaku, and Jabra (stronger than Blueno if I recall correctly). Sanji beating the All-Stars or commanders would likely be inconsistent but not Zoro, as far as I know, Kyoshiro didn't overpower Zoro. Wasn't Zoro angry and trying to get to Orochi?

Doesn't really matter as Luffy should theoretically be able to beat an Emperor even with help. Plus, Shiryu could be considerably stronger than King for all know.

That was a poor translation from Worst Gen that started that. The original Japanese text said no such thing. Nor even implied it. It was Mihawk fanbois that started it and they kind of went with it in large numbers. The same members spread it here and to Reddit

Those bastards!

 

[LadyVados]

I know. They tend to be pretty picky in what additional media is considered canon or not.

I’ve always been against that. Heck, I’ve always pushed Shanks is strongest Yonko because that’s good for Mihawk.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 12, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 12, 2020 ---

Zoro being portrayed as as fast as fastest straw hat Brook...

Hype

Zoro Yonko level speed confirmed

 

[Pirate Queen]

I know. They tend to be pretty picky in what additional media is considered canon or not.

Yeah like they will use the Vivre Cards to say Mihawk is stronger than Shanks but will ignore that the Vivre Cards reveal that Vista's swordsmanship is nearly on par with Mihawk or that Zoro is without a doubt weaker than Luffy lol

 

[LadyVados]

Yeah like they will use the Vivre Cards to say Mihawk is stronger than Shanks but will ignore that the Vivre Cards reveal that Vista's swordsmanship is nearly on par with Mihawk or that Zoro is without a doubt weaker than Luffy lol

It says Vista’s skill is equal to Mihawk’s.

It says apart from Luffy, Zoro is the strongest straw hat.

 

[Pirate Queen]

It says Vista’s skill is equal to Mihawk’s.

It says apart from Luffy, Zoro is the strongest straw hat.

Yet sword bois will still argue Mihawk was toying with Vista and that Zoro = Luffy.

 

[LadyVados]

Yet sword bois will still argue Mihawk was toying with Vista and that Zoro = Luffy.

I actually think Vista is more skilled than Mihawk.

I think Big’s Mom commanders are the weakest (as is hinted by their bounties) We saw Marco hold his own with Big Mom for 3 chapters. I think WB and Shanks’ commanders are probably somewhat close to Yonko in strength. Maybe Kaido’s are somewhere in between the 2.

All the statement says is that Zoro is stronger than everyone other than Luffy. I think Oda left the Whiskey Peak fight unfinished because he wanted the fans to keep arguing about who was stronger between them and won’t ever give a decisive answer about that.

My view has always been
Luffy- 100
Zoro- 100
Sanji- 90

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 12, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 12, 2020 ---

Honestly even Katakuri could probably use his FS to dodge attacks from a Yonko for a few chapters (and if it was a humanoid Yonko like WB or Shanks or Teach he could probably land a few hits and do some damage), the reason Luffy got taken out easily was because he rushed on head first and didn’t use his FS. If Katakuri knew Ryou I’m sure he wouldn’t be a walkover for someone like Kaido or even BM.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I actually think Vista is more skilled than Mihawk.

I think Big’s Mom commanders are the weakest (as is hinted by their bounties) We saw Marco hold his own with Big Mom for 3 chapters. I think WB and Shanks’ commanders are probably somewhat close to Yonko in strength. Maybe Kaido’s are somewhere in between the 2.

All the statement says is that Zoro is stronger than everyone other than Luffy. I think Oda left the Whiskey Peak fight unfinished because he wanted the fans to keep arguing about who was stronger between them and won’t ever give a decisive answer about that.

My view has always been
Luffy- 100
Zoro- 100
Sanji- 90

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 12, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 12, 2020 ---

Honestly even Katakuri could probably use his FS to dodge attacks from a Yonko for a few chapters (and if it was a humanoid Yonko like WB or Shanks or Teach he could probably land a few hits and do some damage), the reason Luffy got taken out easily was because he rushed on head first and didn’t use his FS. If Katakuri knew Ryou I’m sure he wouldn’t be a walkover for someone like Kaido or even BM.

"Being the strongest member of the crew, AFTER his Captain."

Thank you for proving my point i guess?

 

[LadyVados]

"Being the strongest member of the crew, AFTER his Captain."

Thank you for proving my point i guess?

One of the synonyms for after is next, so I always interpreted that statement as being he’s the strongest next to his captain or maybe as he’s the strongest not including his captain

“Being the strongest member of the crew after the captain, he usually takes out the second strongest member of an enemy group”

There’s a reason the line isn’t “being the 2nd strongest member of the crew...”, even though he uses ‘2nd strongest’ later on in the line. Oda doesn’t want to outright say Zoro is weaker than Luffy.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 12, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 12, 2020 ---

Besides there’s always this-

 

[Pirate Queen]

One of the synonyms for after is next, so I always interpreted that statement as being he’s the strongest next to his captain or maybe as he’s the strongest not including his captain

“Being the strongest member of the crew after the captain, he usually takes out the second strongest member of an enemy group”

There’s a reason the line isn’t “being the 2nd strongest member of the crew...”, even though he uses ‘2nd strongest’ later on in the line. Oda doesn’t want to outright say Zoro is weaker than Luffy.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 12, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 12, 2020 ---

Besides there’s always this-

Again proving my point of the picking and choosing what data you want to consider truth or not.

Translation makes it perfectly clear its Luffy > Zoro but certain fans always wanna use mental gymnastics.

After is a synonym for next? Really? Come one.

Why is there always translation issues concerning Mihawk and Zoro and never for anything else? Lol

Edit: the data book you showed was not Oda. Unlike the Vivre Cards which lists Oda as co-writer.

Same type of editors that implied Shanks had the highest bounties of the Yonko but that wasn't true...

 

[Fox666]

One of the synonyms for after is next, so I always interpreted that statement as being he’s the strongest next to his captain or maybe as he’s the strongest not including his captain

“Being the strongest member of the crew after the captain, he usually takes out the second strongest member of an enemy group”

There’s a reason the line isn’t “being the 2nd strongest member of the crew...”, even though he uses ‘2nd strongest’ later on in the line. Oda doesn’t want to outright say Zoro is weaker than Luffy.

The text is just trying not to be redundant and not repeat the words "second strongest" over and over again.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 12, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 12, 2020 ---

Besides there’s always this-

I would suggest not taking these old databook very seriously.

Even then, that databook only covers the early arcs. Most fans agree that before Luffy learned Gear 2, he was very close to Zoro in strength.

 

[Pirate Queen]

The text is just trying not to be redundant and not repeat the words "second strongest" over and over again.


I would suggest not taking these old databook very seriously.

Even then, that databook only covers the early arcs. Most fans agree that before Luffy learned Gear 2, he was very close to Zoro in strength.

And those data books are from a 3rd party. Only data books Oda has personally been a part of are the Vivre Cards as far as I know

 

[Shinigami769]

Again proving my point of the picking and choosing what data you want to consider truth or not.

Translation makes it perfectly clear its Luffy > Zoro but certain fans always wanna use mental gymnastics.

After is a synonym for next? Really? Come one.

Why is there always translation issues concerning Mihawk and Zoro and never for anything else? Lol

Edit: the data book you showed was not Oda. Unlike the Vivre Cards which lists Oda as co-writer.

Same type of editors that implied Shanks had the highest bounties of the Yonko but that wasn't true...

i think in comparison of their abilities that if the two were to fight and mean it, Luffy would likely win. But he wouldn't come out of that fight intact as when serious Zoro is a monster in his own right. It is a case where because of his gear enhancement transformations Luffy is more powerful in terms of power. But Zoro is the one closest to him of the strawhats.

Sanji maybe could be if his idiot character quirks and personality didn't keep making him a partial liability to the team ever since Ennies lobby, to the worthless tool he was in Fishman island, to him needlessly beating the hell out of a unwilling to fight Luffy who had come to save him. and now the Black maria thing now in wano. I'm just kinda done on Sanji if 1 strawhat dies in the story i want it to be just Sanji because if he does i won't really care at this point. nothing he does is the least bit funny and he has been borderline useless and a liability since the timeskip. I like Yamato more then him and she's been in the story for five minutes in comparison to him being in almost all of it.

Not counting the Devil fruit powers i think it is safe to say physically Zoro is stronger then Luffy and is the strongest physically of all the Straw hats. But Luffy has him on power overall because of the Gum Gum fruit and Gear transformations and that their strength isn't that far apart physically either. It is obvious who would win a fight between them. It's just one of those kinda deals where if they did fight Luffy would win but not walk away from it the same because Zoro would damage him in a way most others haven't.

 

[Aki1991]

I am rereading one piece again for chapter 1000 and I am currently at volume 90. Why is Jinbei so underestimated by lot of fans. He has huge feats, best performance against the yonkou of all SH and an amazing history and experience. He is YC level for me and currently the second strongest SH. Luffy surpassed him only after his lucky win against Katakuri. I think Jinbei was stronger before that fight and normally he should be able to beat Sasaki mid difficulty level. His final fight should be Jack in this Arc.