One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[XXGenesis]

It's the simplest explanation. The mechanics of a flying slash hasn't been fully explained, but since Zoro has been using it since before the time skip, I think we can say that it isn't reliant on haki. It's a swordman's projectile technique and it can be coated with haki, like an arrow or bullet. Brook is using them too and we know he has yet to demonstrate haki.

Enma's whole deal is forcing Zoro to understand Ryou, implying that he wasn't using advanced haki. His training was juxtaposed with Luffy's, who was learning the same thing.

Ryou is the Wano term for Advanced Haki. Samurai naturally learn Haki this way up to this level; This is how Hyoguru explained Zoro being able to cut steel. It’s not just hardening but the aura emitted flow onto their sword.

Enma is not training Zoro on how to understand Ryou for the 1st time. He knows Ryou already. It’s a cursed blade that sucks out all of your Haki when swung, taming the blade means great control & greater Haki outputs.

Brook hasn’t shown Haki. Yet he can cut steel now....Punk Hazard Door; Baby Dragon. So idk I’m juss saying maybe Brook does know a little Haki.

Flying slashes I believed were always Air Pressure. We never seen anyone besides Zoro, Ryuma & Mihawk use them pre TS, Kaku was using Roukishiki techniques. & We know Haki hardening can be used on Arrows, Bullets, Mochi.....But it’s possible it’s actually Ryou emission....

 

[HereNThere]

Ryou is the Wano term for Advanced Haki. Samurai naturally learn Haki this way up to this level; This is how Hyoguru explained Zoro being able to cut steel. It’s not just hardening but the aura emitted flow onto their sword.

Ryou is the Wano term for CoA in general, both regular and advanced. Just like CoO is Mantra in Sky Island.

When Hyoguru first heard the term haki, he had no idea what it was.

The explanation Hyoguru gave to Luffy is the one Zoro learned from his master, however, there is nothing saying that Zoro skipped the basic form of haki and jumped to the advanced level. It's more likely that he was just put on the path and awakened basic haki. This is assuredly the case as we know that Zoro still had no mastery over what he wanted to cut outside of Shishi Sonson.

Enma is not training Zoro on how to understand Ryou for the 1st time. He knows Ryou already. It’s a cursed blade that sucks out all of your Haki when swung, taming the blade means great control & greater Haki outputs.

It is. It's forcefully emitting his haki to flow into his sword, which is what the true form of emission haki according to Hyoguru. Emission is flowing haki from parts of your body that does not need it straight to where you want it. Enma is pulling all haki from your body and directing it straight into the sword.

If he understands the feeling of how his haki flows into Enma, he can, assumedly, apply that to his other blades. At least, that's what I assume the goal is.

Brook hasn’t shown Haki. Yet he can cut steel now....Punk Hazard Door; Baby Dragon. So idk I’m juss saying maybe Brook does know a little Haki.

He's not shown any indication of knowing haki. He had plenty of moments in WCI to show it, yet the series never did. I don't think he has it yet.

Flying slashes I believed were always Air Pressure. We never seen anyone besides Zoro, Ryuma & Mihawk use them pre TS, Kaku was using Roukishiki techniques. & We know Haki hardening can be used on Arrows, Bullets, Mochi.....But it’s possible it’s actually Ryou emission....

With the information we currently have, I don't think those past examples were using emission. I think it's just coating the attacks with regular haki. If we learn something in the future that points to them being early examples of emission, I'll reconsider.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

What are you guys talking about?

Didn't Sanji heard a woman screaming?

Luffy thinking it was CoO was a joke.

sanji seems to be able to discern and read emotions well using COO

 

[Pirate Queen]

sanji seems to be able to discern and read emotions well using COO

Thats basically what CoO is. Decerning emotions to predict actions

 

[albertwv]

sanji seems to be able to discern and read emotions well using COO

Or maybe he is simply a real gentlemen, notice how this all pertains to women even when he got trapped recently by Black Maria. I dont think its only CoO but also plot to Sanji's story of how he goes to rescue or cares about women.

Also Zolo vs Monet regarding the Air slash, I believe it was just a normal air slash coated with regular haki. I doubt Zolo knew Advance haki during Punk Hazard if not then Oda would be trolling us and Luffy.
Also I disagree with Zolo knowing CoA back in Alabasta to defeat Daz Bones. I think Zolo truly learn how to cut steel with pure skill.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Or maybe he is simply a real gentlemen, notice how this all pertains to women even when he got trapped recently by Black Maria. I dont think its only CoO but also plot to Sanji's story of how he goes to rescue or cares about women.

Also Zolo vs Monet regarding the Air slash, I believe it was just a normal air slash coated with regular haki. I doubt Zolo knew Advance haki during Punk Hazard if not then Oda would be trolling us and Luffy.
Also I disagree with Zolo knowing CoA back in Alabasta to defeat Daz Bones. I think Zolo truly learn how to cut steel with pure skill.

Zoro was using the prerequisite of Advanced haki back in Alabasta, the was just known to us by a different name.... the Breath of All Things.

We can assume he perfected "Advanced" Haki during his training with Mihawk

 

[M3J]

Wasn't it confirmed that Zoro didn't need to use haki to hurt Monet, he just had a killing intent and scared Monet shitless?

 

[Fox666]

sanji seems to be able to discern and read emotions well using COO

It's just his gentleman thing.

 

[XXGenesis]

It's just his gentleman thing.

I would say it’s a combination of both. When it comes to saving a Woman Sanji’s CoO is top tier.

 

[albertwv]

Zoro was using the prerequisite of Advanced haki back in Alabasta, the was just known to us by a different name.... the Breath of All Things.

We can assume he perfected "Advanced" Haki during his training with Mihawk

I dont think Oda planned to use "advance haki" that early in the game. I really really doubt Oda gave Zolo haki that early too. To cut down Mr. 1 Zolo used his skill. Also, Zolo can somehow feel he the cursed sword, if it's nearby. Oda never explained that just call it intuition by Zolo just like Sanji can feel woman in danger/emotions, Zolo can feel his swords presence. One scenario was when Zolo was stucked in the roof and Chopper came to get him out and had his cursed sword with him, Zolo explained he could feel the curse of the sword.

Let's not assume Zolo perfected "advanced haki" with Mihawk. It really downplays Luffy learning Ryou/Advance Haki and his lessons with Hyogoro if Zolo had already used much less perfect this type of CoA.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I dont think Oda planned to use "advance haki" that early in the game. I really really doubt Oda gave Zolo haki that early too. To cut down Mr. 1 Zolo used his skill. Also, Zolo can somehow feel he the cursed sword, if it's nearby. Oda never explained that just call it intuition by Zolo just like Sanji can feel woman in danger/emotions, Zolo can feel his swords presence. One scenario was when Zolo was stucked in the roof and Chopper came to get him out and had his cursed sword with him, Zolo explained he could feel the curse of the sword.

Let's not assume Zolo perfected "advanced haki" with Mihawk. It really downplays Luffy learning Ryou/Advance Haki and his lessons with Hyogoro if Zolo had already used much less perfect this type of CoA.

Oh it was definitely retconned by Oda. I have no doubt. But it was a very cleaver way for Oda to explain away the Breath of All Things... which was beyond an ass pull back when Zoro used it.

But because the BoAT now has an excuse our discussions must move forward with the knowledge that Zoro did in fact use an "advanced" version of Haki many years ago. Its not the first retcon by Oda and it won't be the last

This is without a doubt BoAT, the exact same definition Zoro gave in Alabasta. Its undeniably a fact at this point

As you you point that it down plays Luffy lol... what?

If you really think that IDK what to say. Luffy barely started to train in advanced CoA and has already surpassed Zoro, who has had it for YEARS. Internal Damage Advanced CoA is miles more effective than any other type of VoA

Luffy's growth rate is insane

 

[XXGenesis]

Zoro knowing Advanced Haki Pre-TS is a real WTH moment. Still yet doesn’t create a plot hole. Through a philosophy & great Will Zoro learned to cut steel but wasn’t aware of its full skill & function.

Also if Zoro learned Advanced Haki with Hawkeye, it doesn’t downplay Luffy at all.
Nor does it suggest Zoro is stronger than Luffy.

Boa Sisters knew advanced Haki; Yet Luffy overcame.

Katakuri’s hardening was stronger yet G4 Bondman overcame.

Undeniable a character from Wano addresses in depth the concept of the Breathe of All things & how it’s used to either cut or not cut; It’s Advanced Haki;

When Enma is introduced nothing about learning Advanced Haki is mentioned. Just that Zoro shouldn’t take the blade and when he uses it we get a demonstration of why the blade is dangerous. Zoro mastering the blade doesn’t mention anything about Haki concept. More info in a flashback can be added when Zoro does some badass sh*t with it. But he seemingly knew Advanced Haki for quite some time.

 

[Nie Li]

Oh it was definitely retconned by Oda. I have no doubt. But it was a very cleaver way for Oda to explain away the Breath of All Things... which was beyond an ass pull back when Zoro used it.

But because the BoAT now has an excuse our discussions must move forward with the knowledge that Zoro did in fact use an "advanced" version of Haki many years ago. Its not the first retcon by Oda and it won't be the last

This is without a doubt BoAT, the exact same definition Zoro gave in Alabasta. Its undeniably a fact at this point

As you you point that it down plays Luffy lol... what?

If you really think that IDK what to say. Luffy barely started to train in advanced CoA and has already surpassed Zoro, who has had it for YEARS. Internal Damage Advanced CoA is miles more effective than any other type of VoA

Luffy's growth rate is insane

Damn, even the dialogue about cutting whatever they want or choosing to not even cutting a piece of paper is the same. It makes sense, though, knowing Kuina's father was also a descendant from Wano.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Damn, even the dialogue about cutting whatever they want or choosing to not even cutting a piece of paper is the same. It makes sense, though, knowing Kuina's father was also a descendant from Wano.

Oda is a genius, for sure. Its why I think Zoro already perfected Ryou or Advanced Haki that Wano swordsmen know. There's not much reason to assume otherwise unless Zoro himself openly states he doesn't have it. The fact that he can coat his blades black with wisps or haki emitting from his blade even points to the fact that he has perfected it.

Unfortunately this is the only glimpse we get of Zoro's training and its more about the "density" of the haki coating his blade, not the application(ryou)

 

[Nie Li]

When Enma is introduced nothing about learning Advanced Haki is mentioned. Just that Zoro shouldn’t take the blade and when he uses it we get a demonstration of why the blade is dangerous. Zoro mastering the blade doesn’t mention anything about Haki concept. More info in a flashback can be added when Zoro does some badass sh*t with it. But he seemingly knew Advanced Haki for quite some time.

Well, Zoro was clear about it: Once he has gotten used to that sword, he'll be even stronger.

This was said after he was explained and demonstrated how hard the sword is to tame. Zoro was already very good at using CoA, yet that only allowed him to survive swinging the sword once back at that scene. I don't know if his haki will just literally become "stronger", but he's supposed to have now much greater control of his haki outputs and that should make him stronger.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 14, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 14, 2020 ---

Wasn't it confirmed that Zoro didn't need to use haki to hurt Monet, he just had a killing intent and scared Monet shitless?

Initially, Zoro used haki to hurt her. He cut her cheek with it to let her know he could cut her if he wanted to before he started scaring her shitless.

If he hadn't started his charade with haki Monet wouldn't have felt in danger.

 

[Pirate Queen]

What modifications would you like to see Franky and Ussop add to Sanji's Raid Suit?

Being undamaged by an Ancient Zoan's piercing damage is quit impressive by itself but beyond invisibility i would like to see something accenting his flame based powers or a way to increase the heat of his flames? Perhaps blue flames?

 

[I Am Atomic]

What modifications would you like to see Franky and Ussop add to Sanji's Raid Suit?

Being undamaged by an Ancient Zoan's piercing damage is quit impressive by itself but beyond invisibility i would like to see something accenting his flame based powers or a way to increase the heat of his flames? Perhaps blue flames?

I am waiting for Sanji's Germa gene to unlock. He is still a pure human unlike his siblings who had powers like exoskeleton. No idea if Oda would do it, but would be nice. In the end he would be the perfect result Judge was looking for.

Maybe something that works like Ryo, that can hurt a Yonko..... something like a vibration. Poor speculation

 

[LadyVados]

And will zoro eventually have ryuo like luffy?

It's heavily implied Zoro had Ryou back in Alabasta.

 

[Nie Li]

I am waiting for Sanji's Germa gene to unlock. He is still a pure human unlike his siblings who had powers like exoskeleton. No idea if Oda would do it, but would be nice. In the end he would be the perfect result Judge was looking for.

Maybe something that works like Ryo, that can hurt a Yonko..... something like a vibration. Poor speculation

It could happen. They could even reveal his fire powers to be genetic-based, since he doesn't even need to spin anymore to set his foot ablaze, but I feel like him having "super genes" would ruin his mother's character arc in a way. It's cool that he was born "normal" yet able to become a high tier character.

I usually find characters born from normal backgrounds before becoming strong to be far more interesting than characters that are strong because of pre-birth reasons, so I would like his future power ups to be just born from training.

We will see, though, Oda already took a weird turn when he gave him the raid suit as a power up.

 

[HereNThere]

We will see, though, Oda already took a weird turn when he gave him the raid suit as a power up.

I'm really hoping it's destroyed...

Oda's always implied that Sanji's flames are based on his passion and anger. So if it's destroyed, I see him snapping because his dreams of invisibility have once again been dashed.