Discussion Zoro Discussion Thread

[Nie Li]

Just making sure you don't say something hypocritical.

Don't ask the elm for pears. It is the Zoro thread, though.

 

[King Moe]

Just making sure you don't say something hypocritical.

Never do. Just stating what I seen on Zoro's performance.

 

[XXGenesis]

Zoro couldn't even put down Apoo in 2 vs 1, so nah, he is at best YC4, but haven't shown anything taking on credible opponent in 1 on 1 to say he is beyond anything. He is going to need help facing an YC lvl opponent if Apoo gave him that much trouble.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 18, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 18, 2020 ---

Apoo gave Zoro & Luffy the same amount of trouble. & Luffy is stronger than both of them...Abilities matter. After the Trouble Apoo gave...

Zoro drops him and he is barely able to get back up, he’s silhouetted because he’s in critical condition.....So what trouble, he got hit once & was in critical condition..Zoro already won, antidote in choppers hand & moving on.

Ehhh....Nah, it be huge gap just like Roger and Rayleigh where Roger can fight off Whitebeard, but no one in his crew can't. Luffy be on his own tier overall along with certain few, but Zoro will not be apart of that. He will be a top tier at EOS, but not deep one.

I wasn’t talking about EOS PL. I can wait to see which character becomes however strong.


Imo all of the Strongest SN captains along with Zoro Post TS are Border line or Low Commander Lv....

So as Apoo has shown he ain’t trash, but she ain’t much compared to Zoro. Kidd got a good hit in on Apoo, he didn’t even manage that much damage. Nor did X Drake who shown He can on hit one of the numbers, manage to finish off Apoo w/o Zoro’s help.

 

[King Moe]

Apoo gave Zoro & Luffy the same amount of trouble. & Luffy is stronger than both of them...Abilities matter. After the Trouble Apoo gave...

Zoro drops him and he is barely able to get back up, he’s silhouetted because he’s in critical condition.....So what trouble, he got hit once & was in critical condition..Zoro already won, antidote in choppers hand & moving on.



I wasn’t talking about EOS PL. I can wait to see which character becomes however strong.


Imo all of the Strongest SN captains along with Zoro Post TS are Border line or Low Commander Lv....

So as Apoo has shown he ain’t trash, but she ain’t much compared to Zoro. Kidd got a good hit in on Apoo, he didn’t even manage that much damage. Nor did X Drake who shown He can on hit one of the numbers, manage to finish off Apoo w/o Zoro’s help.

Luffy was surprise of his ability and didn't continue fighting him as he want to face Kaido. We don't know in a full fight how it take, but he probably beat Apoo faster than Zoro would given his speed and power.

Apoo was able to jump up and continue fighting and wasn't even defeated when Drake got him next. Apoo is a tank, he is probably going to be seen later and ready to fight again. Zoro got him 2 vs 1 and while he wasn't looking, nothing to really push Zoro is way above him or many others in a solo fight as it is easy to team up on someone to beat them. By that logic Kamazou/Killer or Gyukimaro are stronger than Zoro given he fainted and couldn't defeat them both if we using same logic.

Not trying to downplay Zoro, but just saying don't overhype it meaning Zoro is way beyond Supernovas as 2 vs 1 isn't good way to measure someone in a solo fight unless one do majority of the work.

 

[kkck]

Honestly, to me it's difficult to imagine any supernova lasting against gear 4 luffy. And that before even luffy's CoO and CoA upgrades. Even doflamingo was relatively helpless against gear 4. In that regard what zoro did to apoo is not actually that impressive. And it becomes even less impressive if you consider apoo was fighting someone else at the time. What zoro did to apoo was a cool moment but it shouldn't count as a feat.

 

[King Moe]

Honestly, to me it's difficult to imagine any supernova lasting against gear 4 luffy. And that before even luffy's CoO and CoA upgrades. Even doflamingo was relatively helpless against gear 4. In that regard what zoro did to apoo is not actually that impressive. And it becomes even less impressive if you consider apoo was fighting someone else at the time. What zoro did to apoo was a cool moment but it shouldn't count as a feat.

Judging by Oda, Kidd and Law are more in his level even with G4 and maybe Apoo and Urouge given their performance. The rest are not like that, but won't be one-shot if they fought. Supernovas are close and strong in their own way especially the Captain ones. I agree with what you said on fight as well. Not really something to scale if 2 vs 1 unless one did more work than other in majority of it.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

Never do. Just stating what I seen on Zoro's performance.

performance? Apoo took hit from drake, kidd and wasn't knocked out.
One hit from angry zoro and apoo was knocked out (see back chapter 997) and lost his antivirus serum to zoro.
Seems like zoro has top performance

 

[King Moe]

performance? Apoo took hit from drake, kidd and wasn't knocked out.
One hit from angry zoro and apoo was knocked out (see back chapter 997) and lost his antivirus serum to zoro.
Seems like zoro has top performance

Is that why he came out to come attack again and even jump in the air? For someone 'knockout' he didn't look like he was in 998. Knockout is when Zoro fainted from getting hit by Kamazou, so by your logic, Gyukimaro and Kamazou are stronger given they made him faint and didn't finish the fight.

You can't use that as Zoro feat unless you admit about that fight is feat for Kamazou and Gyukimaro for knocking Zoro out.

 

[Nie Li]

Doesn't make sense when he told Kinemon he is interested on learning to cut fire, but yet he can already do it. Don't think it same type of fire or is that as seem more of aura thing. Also why he didn't use fire attacks in major of his fights around since then. Would have been helpful in taking on Hawkins if he knew how to conjure fire, but instead he didn't use something like that.

Cutting fire and conjuring fire are different things. Zoro clearly tapped into conjuring fire back at Thriller Bark.

What do you mean "an aura thing"? What is "aura" in One Piece? Here he used fire because he had to burn Ryuuma to defeat him (since he was a zombie and he wouldn't go down with normal slashes). Using a slash of fire is literally a fire technique, and since it hasn't been explained as being anything different the most logical it's to think it's the same kind of technique that Luffy and Sanji use. Zoro simply chose to not build a fighting style around it, since he doesn't need it to bypass defenses like Sanji did against tekkai users like Jabra.

About Hawkins: Zoro vs Hawkins didn't even really happen as a proper fight. Zoro took one life from Hawkins casually and he shielded Luffy and Tama out of there. Since it was so easy for him to take one of Hawkins lifes, while would he need fire?

Also thought we can't use Anime as evidence anymore? Change your mind?

this is not "anime evidence": the same scene happens in the manga exactly the same way. It was neither a filler nor changed in any way so it was just easier to look for it this way, but if you want I can look for the manga chapter as well.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 19, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 19, 2020 ---

So, about Hiryu Kaen, based on the manga. The attack is still called Hiryu Kaen, so "Flying Dragon: Fire Blaze". The name and technique is not only a direct reference to Ryuma's feat in the Monsters manga, it also implies there's a "fire blaze" involved.

When the attack starts, a silhouette of a Dragon spitting fire appears behind Zoro. Not biting and not clawing: spitting fire.

Spoiler: First Page

The attack, for a moment, looks like a normal slash.

Spoiler: Second Page

But literally a second after cutting Ryuma, right after passing eachother, while they're both still in the air, Ryuma's wound lits up in flames, which surprises Ryuma. This is not how zombie's die in One Piece. This is a direct result of Zoro's technique being fire-based.

Spoiler: Third Page

So yes, Zoro can use fire techniques since pre-TS.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

Is that why he came out to come attack again and even jump in the air? For someone 'knockout' he didn't look like he was in 998. Knockout is when Zoro fainted from getting hit by Kamazou, so by your logic, Gyukimaro and Kamazou are stronger given they made him faint and didn't finish the fight.

You can't use that as Zoro feat unless you admit about that fight is feat for Kamazou and Gyukimaro for knocking Zoro out.

so? He did get knocked out then lmao. I never say zoro killed apoo in that chapter.

 

[King Moe]

Cutting fire and conjuring fire are different things. Zoro clearly tapped into conjuring fire back at Thriller Bark.

What do you mean "an aura thing"? What is "aura" in One Piece? Here he used fire because he had to burn Ryuuma to defeat him (since he was a zombie and he wouldn't go down with normal slashes). Using a slash of fire is literally a fire technique, and since it hasn't been explained as being anything different the most logical it's to think it's the same kind of technique that Luffy and Sanji use. Zoro simply chose to not build a fighting style around it, since he doesn't need it to bypass defenses like Sanji did against tekkai users like Jabra.

About Hawkins: Zoro vs Hawkins didn't even really happen as a proper fight. Zoro took one life from Hawkins casually and he shielded Luffy and Tama out of there. Since it was so easy for him to take one of Hawkins lifes, while would he need fire?


this is not "anime evidence": the same scene happens in the manga exactly the same way. It was neither a filler nor changed in any way so it was just easier to look for it this way, but if you want I can look for the manga chapter as well.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 19, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 19, 2020 ---

So, about Hiryu Kaen, based on the manga. The attack is still called Hiryu Kaen, so "Flying Dragon: Fire Blaze". The name and technique is not only a direct reference to Ryuma's feat in the Monsters manga, it also implies there's a "fire blaze" involved.

When the attack starts, a silhouette of a Dragon spitting fire appears behind Zoro. Not biting and not clawing: spitting fire.

Spoiler: First Page

The attack, for a moment, looks like a normal slash.

Spoiler: Second Page

But literally a second after cutting Ryuma, right after passing eachother, while they're both still in the air, Ryuma's wound lits up in flames, which surprises Ryuma. This is not how zombie's die in One Piece. This is a direct result of Zoro's technique being fire-based.

Spoiler: Third Page

So yes, Zoro can use fire techniques since pre-TS.

Hmmm...Agree to Disagree, but can't say your points are wrong, but given he hasn't use fire except for that one time situation or if it was 'fire', it doesn't make sense on consistency from how we seen his fights.

Also let's not bring in Sanji and make this S vs Z as both have their way bypassing, but it was obvious both were capable of hurting Jabra and Kaku before their big attacks. Though still not sold much on Zoro able to produce fire given it could have been useful on defeating Hawkins and taking all his lives, not just one. Hawkins doesn't care on losing lives, so not really a feat on that since he can refilled on them btw. Just saying if Zoro was smart, he would use something that can be more effective on an enemy instead going opposite about it (Also he didn't shield to protect them as Luffy can protect himself, so no need for that).

I hear a lot in community aura on Zoro being use in his attacks especially since Enies Lobby with Asura thing as it doesn't make sense how he grow limbs and body parts without it being about aura (Though being an one time thing from how it looks of it, can't tell about that anymore).

Thanks for explaining on your side, but still going to wait on future fights if he can truly do it again and if not it was something else he did than 'fire'.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 20, 2020 ---

so? He did get knocked out then lmao. I never say zoro killed apoo in that chapter.

So you agree then Kamazou and Gyukimaro defeated Zoro and are stronger just like you push Drake and Zoro defeated Apoo the same way?

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

So you agree then Kamazou and Gyukimaro defeated Zoro and are stronger just like you push Drake and Zoro defeated Apoo the same way?

they defeated nerfed zoro (only two swords). But yes, zoro defeated apoo.

 

[King Moe]

they defeated nerfed zoro (only two swords). But yes, zoro defeated apoo.

Not nerfed. He can fight same level with the rest of his styles. Only one was nerfed was Kamazou. So Killer < Zoro is clear then. Thanks for admitting that if your going to use 2 vs 1 logic.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Not nerfed. He can fight same level with the rest of his styles. Only one was nerfed was Kamazou. So Killer < Zoro is clear then. Thanks for admitting that if your going to use 2 vs 1 logic.

Killer < Zoro means your admitting Zoro is stronger lol

 

[Ramen]

Killer < Zoro means your admitting Zoro is stronger lol

That's because he is

 

[Pirate Queen]

That's because he is

No. Killer nerfed

 

[M3J]

Zoro can't fight at the same level as his moves are reduced. If his top three strongest moves require three swords, then the fight will last longer because his strongest two-sword attacks aren't as strong.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Zoro will be the worst WSS if losing 1 of 3 swords decides his fight.

He can just call "No fairzys i didn't have 3 swords it doesn't count"

lol

 

[King Moe]

Killer < Zoro means your admitting Zoro is stronger lol

No I was using logic by GM stating he sees Zoro stronger than Apoo despite being 2 vs 1. Just using same scenario that if we go by that Killer is stronger especially in healthy state. Not implying that, actually opposite.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 22, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 22, 2020 ---

Zoro can't fight at the same level as his moves are reduced. If his top three strongest moves require three swords, then the fight will last longer because his strongest two-sword attacks aren't as strong.

Yet he beaten Daz Bones and Zombie Ryuma despite less swords. It's the skill that makes him strong, not the numbers. He had this conversation to Haichi when facing him. His styles are as strong as much as skill he has equally on each of them.

 

[Nie Li]

Zoro will be the worst WSS if losing 1 of 3 swords decides his fight.

He can just call "No fairzys i didn't have 3 swords it doesn't count"

lol

This is what I think of that.

Spoiler

Actually, now that the topic is brought up, has Zoro ever been disarmed other than by Mr.1 (and at the very end)? Not counting of course the swords getting destroyed, since the Mihawk fight wasn't even a fight and Zoro had no problems continuing fighting the marines when he lost Yubashiri.

I don't think he's ever lost a sword in a fight. He doesn't let go of them and we can pretty much say they're a part of his body in a sense.

Zoro fights best with three swords, because three swords are his "weapon" and the style he's trained at the most.

He's strong with ito and nitoryu, and he has very strong techniques in those two styles, but of course he's "not as dangerous", because that's not his main forte and he has less variety of techniques in those forms (and most of his techniques with 1 and 2 swords have an stronger equivalent with 3. Even Shishi Sonson has Rashomon with 2 swords which is stronger), but since he never lets go of them, that's okay either way.

And I shouldn't even mention that his superhuman strength and advanced haki usage can also be used through a fist if he wished to. We know he could throw a tatsumaki pre-TS with no swords.

No I was using logic by GM stating he sees Zoro stronger than Apoo despite being 2 vs 1. Just using same scenario that if we go by that Killer is stronger especially in healthy state. Not implying that, actually opposite.

The results of those two fights were quite different. As were the conditions. The analogy is very weak.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 22, 2020, Original Post Date: Dec 22, 2020 ---

Yet he beaten Daz Bones and Zombie Ryuma despite less swords. It's the skill that makes him strong, not the numbers. He had this conversation to Haichi when facing him. His styles are as strong as much as skill he has equally on each of them.

This is not what he told Hachi. He told Hachi that "his eight 300 kg swords can be broken easily by him because Zoro's swords weight more", but that does not translate to "Zoro is equally stronger with any style".

If you paid any attention to that scene. Johnny and Yosaku lent Zoro their swords so he could use santouryu on Hatchan, because with itoryu he was having trouble. Once he got three swords and used santouryu, he massacred Hatchan.