Games Mafia Game 87 - Baccano! - END GAME

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Hardy

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I need to see full role list and night actions to know more details, but mafia did indeed have it bad. But it isn't exactly easy to balance such a game. Had Mentor and Santa been alive, and mafia not failed like all their RT kills, town would've gotten outnumbered fairly quickly so it makes sense there is a Burden to weaken all the anti-towns, but imo that's not what a Burden is meant for.


Had Organizized been recruited everything could've gone different with how trusted he was, Apprentice learning from Traitor was a recent change that is surprisingly against Traitor unlike the other ones that are pro-Traitor, as it doesn't kill a townie. Had those rules not been changed gnut would've died right there, Vand wouldn't have claimed Prostitute and some things would've gone different for sure.
I mean, no one forced them to have Santa, Mentor and/or lovers. The game that is hard to balance is the game they built.

Orgz would have to be alone against...5 townies, one a bp? With a protect/block/kill mechanic? And the potions*
 

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This was a very fun game, thanks a lot to @SonOfDaws (how do you always make games where I live long, TPs die asap and game is very active and filled with all sorts of plays? Wow) and @Asako (should've gotten lynched earlier).

Living long is always nice, living long with a very powerful and fun role is even nicer. Thank you @Shad for giving me some very fun nightphases(2 to be exact, damn scum), and sorry for not handling things more properly. I was certain either you or Lambu had to be Mafia Mason, so I wanted to test you by asking for your opinions and thoughts all the time and see if you have bad intentions with our collective actions. Though ofc I also wanted your input to help me decide as there were an awful lot of variables to consider, and messing up as a team always feels better than messing up alone :p After Farf let you go, I claim this Shad for myself!

I need to see full role list and night actions to know more details, but mafia did indeed have it bad. But it isn't exactly easy to balance such a game. Had Mentor and Santa been alive, and mafia not failed like all their RT kills, town would've gotten outnumbered fairly quickly so it makes sense there is a Burden to weaken all the anti-towns, but imo that's not what a Burden is meant for. Burden should weaken a very strong mafia in terms of numbers or OP role differences, not weaken a weak mafia because it also weakens a lot of TPs. Balance-wise good for the game in many cases, but always bad for the small mafia team. It's very hard to give all teams equal footing when there's like 4 different ones, say 2 mislynches at game start and it could be unwinnable for town already as RT kills and Mentor+Mafia statistically hit townies more than each other. Certainly some changes to the setup I'd have done to balance things a bit differently, but just saying it's a difficult task when you put too many TPs so I understand that Daws probably ran the numbers and saw town losing out very fast in most cases with kills working and town mislynching(as that is most commonly the case) so I'm sure he added the BP or Jesus at that point.

Had Organizized been recruited everything could've gone different with how trusted he was, Apprentice learning from Traitor was a recent change that is surprisingly against Traitor unlike the other ones that are pro-Traitor, as it doesn't kill a townie. Had those rules not been changed gnut would've died right there, Vand wouldn't have claimed Prostitute and some things would've gone different for sure.

My own performance wasn't the best. I may have posted a lot but only because I could check the thread often in short spurts, didn't fully sit down and analyze old posts like I'd have liked, resorting to telling Shad at day to check Vand and desin's posts :notlikethis Very shameful to miss that Vand's hint didn't match, but then again could've been written off like Farf, DD and other's claim lies. I also missed the Mortician possibility a night earlier to find Gajeel, should've done that instead of Spying on Lambu. I even checked if Mortician could prove some players and concluded that most claimed actions were used on living players so saved it for later. Even had to ask Shad next night to list me Gajeel and Vand's targets again because it was hard for me to check. :noworry

Thanks to everyone for playing, I'm very glad it ended where it did because the amount of stuff I had to do was becoming a bit unmanageable.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---



Fun fact, I bluffed. I never touched your grave, would be too disrespectful imo. I pretended to have investigated sakura to see her reactions, didn't expect... that. So it did make me feel kinda bad thinking I made her ragequit on false accusations, but she was mafia in the end.

I thought it'd be fitting that if I wanna target you I have to do what lawl would do if revived: lie about being Detective and getting convenient results :hee
Lmao, but I did not rage quit cuz of what you said? I saw orgz saying I.m lying about elixir and on the heat of the moment I was like " here, the lie, have fun with it xD".
I actually did not care for your result on me as there was a 50 50 chance that det was insane, hence me mentioning that as my reply and answering with a "sarcastic"(fake) attitude "oh did you now? Well look at you! You got me, i.m a lone mafia wolf" (which basically was true but I just acted like i was sarcastic :)))))
 

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I mean, no one forced them to have Santa, Mentor and/or lovers. The game that is hard to balance is the game they built.

Orgz would have to be alone against...5 townies, one a bp? With a protect/block/kill mechanic? And the potions*
True that, what is even Santa Lover and how does it work? I said it could've been balanced better but it wasn't unwinnable, you people missed all your RT kills which would've added +3 dead townies this game and could've helped a lot especially with getting Orgz, and had you not died early with panda's threat you could've gotten Assassin that is incredibly broken even more in this setup as it shits on mechanic and all roles.
 

Hardy

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True that, what is even Santa Lover and how does it work? I said it could've been balanced better but it wasn't unwinnable, you people missed all your RT kills which would've added +3 dead townies this game and could've helped a lot especially with getting Orgz, and had you not died early with panda's threat you could've gotten Assassin that is incredibly broken even more in this setup as it shits on mechanic and all roles.
Yeah but you guys had rt block and doctor + could contest our rt kill+ 2 whores around + a doctor + a bp + a jesus thst couldn't be masoned. Our rt kills were doomed to fail from the get go.
 

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The mafia team seemed a bit weak. As digital said before, I would have expected a Mafia Mason be in the setup, or the Traitor being in the Mason faction maybe. Swap that for the Mafia Burden and it would have looked just fine.

But complains about it being unwinable, I do not share. Clearly the team didnot have enough time to use the internal discussions and assess best plays there are. Also seemed the mechanic wasn't analyzed properly internally. Even without seeing full night action list, it looks like the Escort wasn't used to best advantage for instance. Like not sure who the target was, but panda death and Hardy exposure could have been prevented with a N1 block on him.

Third party guys were even more unlucky. Sereph did inconsistant claims, which also seemed to be the result of lack of time. Holt couldn't really do anything about Raven suggesting to recruit him as the choice was probably heavily influenced from their hydra-team work in previous game, but xnut just straight up revealing himself after, giving Belserion no chance to win the game together either.

But yeah, there's always a next game, hopefully.
 

Hardy

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Yeah but you guys had rt block and doctor + could contest our rt kill+ 2 whores around + a doctor + a bp + a jesus thst couldn't be masoned. Our rt kills were doomed to fail from the get go.
Forgot about the apprentice that can become any of these too. Amazing
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

The mafia team seemed a bit weak. As digital said before, I would have expected a Mafia Mason be in the setup, or the Traitor being in the Mason faction maybe. Swap that for the Mafia Burden and it would have looked just fine.

But complains about it being unwinable, I do not share. Clearly the team didnot have enough time to use the internal discussions and assess best plays there are. Also seemed the mechanic wasn't analyzed properly internally. Even without seeing full night action list, it looks like the Escort wasn't used to best advantage for instance. Like not sure who the target was, but panda death and Hardy exposure could have been prevented with a N1 block on him.

Third party guys were even more unlucky. Sereph did inconsistant claims, which also seemed to be the result of lack of time. Holt couldn't really do anything about Raven suggesting to recruit him as the choice was probably heavily influenced from their hydra-team work in previous game, but xnut just straight up revealing himself after, giving Belserion no chance to win the game together either.

But yeah, there's always a next game, hopefully.
Every game is winnable, the thing is if it's 50/50 or 10/90
 

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Forgot about the apprentice that can become any of these too. Amazing
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---



Every game is winnable, the thing is if it's 50/50 or 10/90
Why would it be 50:50 if there are townies, mafias a mentors and lovers/santas?
 

Hardy

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Like not sure who the target was, but panda death and Hardy exposure could have been prevented with a N1 block on him.
Wrote it before. We wouldn't had caught Lawl who would had gotten us for sure. I would still be in the hotseat because of panda and on top of it he would be alive.
 

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@Lambu after rereading our posts again, I didn’t like how I called you names so I’m very sorry for that. You kinda forced me to tho but it’s a game and I shouldn’t have gone that far, I hope you forgive me.
 

Hardy

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Why would it be 50:50 if there are townies, mafias a mentors and lovers/santas?
It's a matter of expression but third parties will always be underdogs, it's easier to talk about mafo/town.
 

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Wrote it before. We wouldn't had caught Lawl who would jad gotten us for sure. I would still be in the hotseat because of panda and on top of it he would be alive.
wait, so you blocked and investigated him in the same night, just to kill him the night after with no results at all?

Yeah, that's high IQ ultimate play
 

Hardy

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wait, so you blocked and investigated him in the same night, just to kill him the night after with no results at all?

Yeah, that's high IQ ultimate play
No, we used two people in rt, one to kill, one to investigate.
 
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