America needs to talk its conspiracy truthers down. But america does not know how to talk anyone down anymore and that is the problem. It only knows how to fuel people up, on all political spectrums.
Talking them down partially means a change of rhetoric. Because they are not JUST white supremacists, they are not JUST idiots and they are not JUST terrorists. They are a quarter of your people, even the ugliest and most hateful ones of them.
I don't disagree with anything you're saying about choosing more positive sounding rhetoric to reach the other side. What I take issue with is the idea that that kind of rhetoric can reach any and everyone. You have to respect the reality that some people can't be reached.
Don't you think we tried to appeal to Trump voters by showing them the pictures of the little hispanic children locked in cages? How do you appeal to the emotions of someone who's not disturbed by something so heartbreaking?
You don't. I'm not even referring to the conspiracy theorists right now either, I'm talking about Republicans in general. The ones I spoke to who actually felt bad about it admitted to not regretting voting for Trump anyway. And these were the reasonable ones.
I hope that you never have to experience what America's experiencing so you don't lose your positive attitude about humanity. I'm too old and too experienced to, lol
I don't disagree with anything you're saying about choosing more positive sounding rhetoric to reach the other side. What I take issue with is the idea that that kind of rhetoric can reach any and everyone. You have to respect the reality that some people can't be reached.
Don't you think we tried to appeal to Trump voters by showing them the pictures of the little hispanic children locked in cages? How do you appeal to the emotions of someone who's not disturbed by something so heartbreaking?
You don't. I'm not even referring to the conspiracy theorists right now either, I'm talking about Republicans in general. The ones I spoke to who actually felt bad about it admitted to not regretting voting for Trump anyway. And these were the reasonable ones.
I hope that you never have to experience what America's experiencing so you don't lose your positive attitude about humanity. I'm too old and too experienced to, lol
No i do not think you appealed to them by that. Because the story was 'look how evil trump is. Accept you are a sinner for voting him'.
THis has a religious way of thinking. First, they need to accept they have sinned, only then they can appeal to not be seen as racists, white supremacists or bigots again.
But that does not appeal to anyone who is not a masochist. You accomplish nothing by that. Because for every story that might make them sad for these children, there are running ten about how planned parenthood kills babies, how white children are bullied in schools, blablabla. It does not matter what is true, it matters how you come off.
You think "these pictures have to appeal to them or they have no heart". They think "oh look, a good for nothing liberal who is for killing babies tells me i have no heart. What a jerk". It is a failed strategy. It is never going to work. THat, however, does not mean there are no working strategies to calm somebody like that down, but that takes a lot of effort and america is not good at finding consensus these days.
You talk about each other, all i see is shows that take clips of people from the other side and then mock them, or have just one guest that can spout whatever he wants. I do not see americans of different opinions talking to each other calmly on TV, which would have some semblance of a shared reality.
The first step you will have to take is to get shared facts again and a shared reality. And that is going to require a lot of work and the left side of america does not like to be taken out of its echochamber, too.
I have talked to trump voters who would not listen to facts and tell me every statistic is wrong.
I have also talked to people on BLM discords who bought into hoaxes of people roaming the street that hang black people, their source being that, in different states of america, some black people hung themselves over the course of a month. And no amount of trying to explain them that statistically, that is very normal and that for some of the cases there is video evidence that suggests no foulplay could convince them otherwise.
It is not just the republican side. The democrats have similarly issues, but they are not as violent and hateful because their pundits did not take that grift.
It is the logic of a teen to think 'if only these ppl would not be there, society would be better'. THe older i get, the more i can see that there is no winning an argument when the other side is losing. An argument can only be won if the other side could live with you being right.
The story was also, "this is how Trump is bad, and this and that is what he did," but his cult refuse to believe it and consider any criticism as fake news. Legit criticisms with legitimate proof were not believed simply because Trump was smart enough to turn the media criticizing him into being the enemies. There were stories about how he cheated businesses, how he bankrupted several businesses, and how he is a sexual harasser and assaulter, but the cult either refused to believe this or look the other way.
And then they also didn't see anything wrong with Trump's bigoted rhetoric, agreeing with stuff like building the wall, Muslims being bad, and whatnot. You cannot have a discussion with people like that. I've talked to plenty of Trump supporters and republicans, and some sensible republicans actually left the party because of Trump and became a Dem or independent.
The story was also, "this is how Trump is bad, and this and that is what he did," but his cult refuse to believe it and consider any criticism as fake news. Legit criticisms with legitimate proof were not believed simply because Trump was smart enough to turn the media criticizing him into being the enemies. There were stories about how he cheated businesses, how he bankrupted several businesses, and how he is a sexual harasser and assaulter, but the cult either refused to believe this or look the other way.
And then they also didn't see anything wrong with Trump's bigoted rhetoric, agreeing with stuff like building the wall, Muslims being bad, and whatnot. You cannot have a discussion with people like that. I've talked to plenty of Trump supporters and republicans, and some sensible republicans actually left the party because of Trump and became a Dem or independent.
As i said, it is not about convincing them with rational arguments. Similarly to the far left, that does not work. You cannot convince somebody who believes in violent marxist uprisings with arguments, neither can you do that with a trump supporter.
But you can take the necessary steps to be able to live together with them in a country.
The first thing you need to convince him of is to find a shared reality with you. He will still disagree with you, but at least it will be based on the same facts (if you accomplish that) and you can improve your relationship from there.
As i said, it is not about convincing them with rational arguments. Similarly to the far left, that does not work. You cannot convince somebody who believes in violent marxist uprisings with arguments, neither can you do that with a trump supporter.
But you can take the necessary steps to be able to live together with them in a country.
The first thing you need to convince him of is to find a shared reality with you. He will still disagree with you, but at least it will be based on the same facts (if you accomplish that) and you can improve your relationship from there.
That is hugely optimistic. The problem on the US goes a tad further nowadays thanks to conspiracy theories... Qanon has basically swallowed more than half the republican party. They believe the democrat party are a bunch of satanic child eating pedophiles who get high of children brain juices. How do you convince them that you, someone who is voting for democrats, is not the enemy? To them you'd be at a minimum the enabler of a satanic child eater. And of course, biden is in a worst position than a regular folk in this regard.
That is hugely optimistic. The problem on the US goes a tad further nowadays thanks to conspiracy theories... Qanon has basically swallowed more than half the republican party. They believe the democrat party are a bunch of satanic child eating pedophiles who get high of children brain juices. How do you convince them that you, someone who is voting for democrats, is not the enemy? To them you'd be at a minimum the enabler of a satanic child eater. And of course, biden is in a worst position than a regular folk in this regard.
I would not call myself an optimist. An optimist thinks what he is trying works. I think what society is trying right now does not work.
On a personal level, a schizophrenic can believe you are part of an evil cult out to kill him and still interact with you on a friendly basis, because delusions are often fueled by emotion. When someone gets better, oftentimes, parts of the delusions persist but are in the backround.
As in, he still believes they are out to get him, but right now, they are not doing any operations because that would be too obvious for the media. So he is okay.
And maybe you are part of them, but hey, nobody is perfect, he is not blaming you personally, after all, they have your family hostage, right?
On a political level, this becomes more complicated, but the principle is the same. You are not going to convince these people that there is no conspiracy. But you can pacify them as a first step. You can achieve "oh well politicians try to kill us all, but i am just living my life and keeping my family safe. And i will go bowling with my friends on sunday".
Excuses they tell themselves, like thinking "they wanna kill us but we have the second amendment so they cant, so i dont have to act" are ways to cope with the divide between logical implications and reality.
That is what the american society should be shooting for. But it does not because I think nobody has a plan about how to exactly do that. Instead the problem is getting worse with the GOP civil war depending on how we move forward.
In my opinion, this will only work if moderate republicans and democrats can learn to work together properly and also bring their voter bases closer together.
I would not call myself an optimist. An optimist thinks what he is trying works. I think what society is trying right now does not work.
On a personal level, a schizophrenic can believe you are part of an evil cult out to kill him and still interact with you on a friendly basis, because delusions are often fueled by emotion. When someone gets better, oftentimes, parts of the delusions persist but are in the backround.
As in, he still believes they are out to get him, but right now, they are not doing any operations because that would be too obvious for the media. So he is okay.
And maybe you are part of them, but hey, nobody is perfect, he is not blaming you personally, after all, they have your family hostage, right?
On a political level, this becomes more complicated, but the principle is the same. You are not going to convince these people that there is no conspiracy. But you can pacify them as a first step. You can achieve "oh well politicians try to kill us all, but i am just living my life and keeping my family safe. And i will go bowling with my friends on sunday".
Excuses they tell themselves, like thinking "they wanna kill us but we have the second amendment so they cant, so i dont have to act" are ways to cope with the divide between logical implications and reality.
That is what the american society should be shooting for. But it does not because I think nobody has a plan about how to exactly do that. Instead the problem is getting worse with the GOP civil war depending on how we move forward.
In my opinion, this will only work if moderate republicans and democrats can learn to work together properly and also bring their voter bases closer together.
You are talking about people who set up a noose outside the capitol while chanting about murdering mike pence. I don't see why this people would cool down if they see moderate republicans working with democrats... If they see this, which will definitely happen during biden's presidency, they will simply see the republicans in question as cowardly turncoats who were probably all along a part of the satanic child eating cabal. On that note, even bringing their voting bases closer together might as well be counterproductive. Why or how would you bring close together 2 groups when one group thinks the other getting high of children brain juices?
You are talking about people who set up a noose outside the capitol while chanting about murdering mike pence. I don't see why this people would cool down if they see moderate republicans working with democrats... If they see this, which will definitely happen during biden's presidency, they will simply see the republicans in question as cowardly turncoats who were probably all along a part of the satanic child eating cabal. On that note, even bringing their voting bases closer together might as well be counterproductive. Why or how would you bring close together 2 groups when one group thinks the other getting high of children brain juices?
Not JUST because of that. They , as in a quarter of your country, not just those who were in front of capitol hill, will settle with the situation if they face less incitement and more soothing.
With voting groups, i meant moderate republicans and democrats. People who can vote for Mitt Romney are probably not thinking that democrats eat children.
If you have a situation in which not 50/50 of the country is split, but 75/25 with 25% being the conspiracy theorists, you'd already have an edge in this situation. You are far from that tho.
And then i'd ask what other propositions you have to deal with trump supporters?
Not JUST because of that. They , as in a quarter of your country, not just those who were in front of capitol hill, will settle with the situation if they face less incitement and more soothing.
With voting groups, i meant moderate republicans and democrats. People who can vote for Mitt Romney are probably not thinking that democrats eat children.
If you have a situation in which not 50/50 of the country is split, but 75/25 with 25% being the conspiracy theorists, you'd already have an edge in this situation. You are far from that tho.
And then i'd ask what other propositions you have to deal with trump supporters?
As far as voting groups and whatnot, I think it's far more republicans than that that have fallen to insane conspiracy theories.
Take that polling for instance... 17% of people in that poll said that satan worshipers and child eaters are a thing... and then 37% don't know. that's 54% of the people in this poll being lunatics. Sure, you have the other 47% (I assume a rounding error in the table) but that's still nuts. You vastly overestimate how sane these people are.
As for a solution.... I don't fucking have one. I am not suggesting anything either. To me it all looks bleak and hopeless and the only real option we actually have is to simply way for people to come to their senses before they burn everything to the ground. I don't think there is a solution nor I see how what you are suggesting is in any way helpful. I don't see how two people can sit together and cooperate when one believes the other is secretly a new world order satanic pedophile cannibal. Even without the conspiracy theories... How can a democrat sit and cooperate with someone who proudly weirds a confederate flag? What does that tell his base? The romneys and mccains(I know he is dead, but still) of the party are increasingly irrelevant within the party as well.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
On another note, is it me or is it insane for public forums to be privately owned businesses?
As far as voting groups and whatnot, I think it's far more republicans than that that have fallen to insane conspiracy theories.
Take that polling for instance... 17% of people in that poll said that satan worshipers and child eaters are a thing... and then 37% don't know. that's 54% of the people in this poll being lunatics. Sure, you have the other 47% (I assume a rounding error in the table) but that's still nuts. You vastly overestimate how sane these people are.
As for a solution.... I don't fucking have one. I am not suggesting anything either. To me it all looks bleak and hopeless and the only real option we actually have is to simply way for people to come to their senses before they burn everything to the ground. I don't think there is a solution nor I see how what you are suggesting is in any way helpful. I don't see how two people can sit together and cooperate when one believes the other is secretly a new world order satanic pedophile cannibal. Even without the conspiracy theories... How can a democrat sit and cooperate with someone who proudly weirds a confederate flag? What does that tell his base? The romneys and mccains(I know he is dead, but still) of the party are increasingly irrelevant within the party as well.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
On another note, is it me or is it insane for public forums to be privately owned businesses?
I do not overestimate how sane they are. That is my number. 25% of america are insane, i used it above.
What i suggest is not just love and prayers and singing kumbaya but hard work. Hard work at proper solutions that need to be on the table.
One concrete proposition i'd have is state funded TV that streams online too. America does not have that, many european countries do. And what state funded TV does if done right is giving people a sense of shared reality.
Even the people around here who hate the government usually watch it directly or indirectly and see politicians there every day arguing WITH EACH OTHER. As in, 5 ppl from different parties and a journalist discuss a topic and do have some sense of shared facts on it because loonies usually dont work very well in such settings.
Right now, your media are about other media. As in, CNN shows what evil things a fox news guy did and FOX shows what evil tweets someone made and so on. The same is true for your other news outlets, they are heavily partisan because they usually answer or react to partisan media itself.
But when you have a mostly neutral medium that is so big that more than 66% of the country use it directly or indirectly (for example by reading things that happened there on a private page), then there is some framing for reality that the vast majority of the country agree with.
They disagree about how to interpret it, but they usually do agree about what roughly is happening.
That would require hard work for years (and obviously there are other possible solutions to this like certain guidelines for the main tv stations so that they can still be private or stuff like that) and obviously it would still require persecuting ppl who actually want to abduct politicians, but it would be one big push to draw people away from the sources that inside them towards sources that soothe them.
American media are about fighting all the time, left and right. They just are, with breaking news, countdowns, reacting to the other side, talking about how the country is going down, that this is the most important election ever, countless shows about how the other side is bad...
These things do not exist here in that intensity and I think that is one reason why, while we also have roughly comparable numbers of loonies, they usually are docile around here.
As i said, it is not about convincing them with rational arguments. Similarly to the far left, that does not work. You cannot convince somebody who believes in violent marxist uprisings with arguments, neither can you do that with a trump supporter.
But you can take the necessary steps to be able to live together with them in a country.
The first thing you need to convince him of is to find a shared reality with you. He will still disagree with you, but at least it will be based on the same facts (if you accomplish that) and you can improve your relationship from there.
I feel like you've never talked to actual Trump supporters and probably hate the left/far left, which explains why you like Clinton. I've seen more left or further left be more communicative and better at arguing.
It is impossible when they do not want to live together in the same country with Dems or the left. The only shared reality is that they and we live in USA, but the ideas are way too radically different for them want to get along with anyone who isn't a far right or Trump supporter. They don't care for facts, they care for what they want to believe in and what validates their points of view.
Not JUST because of that. They , as in a quarter of your country, not just those who were in front of capitol hill, will settle with the situation if they face less incitement and more soothing.
This is not a real thing, as they're incited by people wanting equal rights or simply existing. There is no soothing someone who is in denial of reality. Even "mainstream" GOP talking points insist on labeling Biden a Marxist.
I have a decent amount of contempt for people who tolerate Trump simply because they don't see markedly negative effect on their lives. I would most likely fall into that category, even though I don't support him. But the throngs of people who are nothing more than apologists for a despot can not be reasoned with, because their version of this country doesn't line up with anyone else's. We all saw on full display last week what his base wants.
I feel like you've never talked to actual Trump supporters and probably hate the left/far left, which explains why you like Clinton. I've seen more left or further left be more communicative and better at arguing.
It is impossible when they do not want to live together in the same country with Dems or the left. The only shared reality is that they and we live in USA, but the ideas are way too radically different for them want to get along with anyone who isn't a far right or Trump supporter. They don't care for facts, they care for what they want to believe in and what validates their points of view.
I talk to trump supporters more than any sane person should because I am on the conservative reddit.
And yes, you can talk to them on a basis of merit. But you are not going to succeed when you just fight with them.
You gotta do it like in advertizing, come through tbe backdoor.
Simply put: When i go talk to a trump supporter about BLM fighting for a good cause, I am not going to win that argument. Even if i spend several days and make them concede all of their points, the next day, they are at it again because they saw a video from some looting.
However, I can talk to them just fine on a rational basis about proper schoolfood, about how districts should handle garbage removal, about covid relief, about their universal (not political) worldview and build up rapport with them so they are convinced that i am not actually out to kill them.
If america would collectively at least be able to take that step, so that trump supporters think liberals are misguided children instead of out to kill them, that would already be good. But for that, the topics ppl fight about have to change.
I do not overestimate how sane they are. That is my number. 25% of america are insane, i used it above.
What i suggest is not just love and prayers and singing kumbaya but hard work. Hard work at proper solutions that need to be on the table.
One concrete proposition i'd have is state funded TV that streams online too. America does not have that, many european countries do. And what state funded TV does if done right is giving people a sense of shared reality.
Even the people around here who hate the government usually watch it directly or indirectly and see politicians there every day arguing WITH EACH OTHER. As in, 5 ppl from different parties and a journalist discuss a topic and do have some sense of shared facts on it because loonies usually dont work very well in such settings.
Right now, your media are about other media. As in, CNN shows what evil things a fox news guy did and FOX shows what evil tweets someone made and so on. The same is true for your other news outlets, they are heavily partisan because they usually answer or react to partisan media itself.
But when you have a mostly neutral medium that is so big that more than 66% of the country use it directly or indirectly (for example by reading things that happened there on a private page), then there is some framing for reality that the vast majority of the country agree with.
They disagree about how to interpret it, but they usually do agree about what roughly is happening.
That would require hard work for years (and obviously there are other possible solutions to this like certain guidelines for the main tv stations so that they can still be private or stuff like that) and obviously it would still require persecuting ppl who actually want to abduct politicians, but it would be one big push to draw people away from the sources that inside them towards sources that soothe them.
American media are about fighting all the time, left and right. They just are, with breaking news, countdowns, reacting to the other side, talking about how the country is going down, that this is the most important election ever, countless shows about how the other side is bad...
These things do not exist here in that intensity and I think that is one reason why, while we also have roughly comparable numbers of loonies, they usually are docile around here.
That's kinda my point, you are underestimating the crazy. I would lowball that to at least 35% and the real number is probably in the 40s... And you also probably underestimate how crazy they are.
When reading your posts I get the sense that you lack US context. Have you actually been to the US? Have you met their crazy in person?
This is not a real thing, as they're incited by people wanting equal rights or simply existing. There is no soothing someone who is in denial of reality. Even "mainstream" GOP talking points insist on labeling Biden a Marxist.
I have a decent amount of contempt for people who tolerate Trump simply because they don't see markedly negative effect on their lives. I would most likely fall into that category, even though I don't support him. But the throngs of people who are nothing more than apologists for a despot can not be reasoned with, because their version of this country doesn't line up with anyone else's. We all saw on full display last week what his base wants.
Oh there is. And I agree that mainstream gop talking points are not helping. neither are CNNs, neither are the jacobin magazines. That is why i'd advocate. as a very important step, to demilitarize your media language and talking points.
Because they talk the way you talk about them. I am not saying you dont have a better reasoning. I am saying that when i tell them liberals are not crazy and out to kill them and that america needs unification, they go 'yeah but look at BLM they are on street burning out cities, how to reunify with these people'?
And all that means is that america, collectively, needs a very good pitch to the other side about coming together.
That's kinda my point, you are underestimating the crazy. I would lowball that to at least 35% and the real number is probably in the 40s... And you also probably underestimate how crazy they are.
When reading your posts I get the sense that you lack US context. Have you actually been to the US? Have you met their crazy in person?
I am certainly not. As i said, i talk to them every day. I can see how they think and how outrageous the things they think are. And while i have not been in america, i know enough of the media landscape of the US and obviously see the people who live there. I know crazy people.
I have led hourlong conversations that ended with the other side claiming that all my statistics are wrong because every university is controlled by marxists and even when i found a study from a distinctly right wing university in japan that still showed the same result they were like 'can you prove japanese are not leftwing too?'.
I have also talked to people who used their special connection to god as an argument in a conversation and that god told them trump has to win.
But that does not change a thing. Even if they were double as crazy, you'd have to somehow get along with them if you are not going to kill or jail a quarter of your country or more (and yes, i know that a lot of more moderate conservatives also have crazy theories in their head. And also that a lot of democrats and lefties do. But again, that does not change a thing, it just makes the right thing harder to do).
I am certainly not. As i said, i talk to them every day. I can see how they think and how outrageous the things they think are. And while i have not been in america, i know enough of the media landscape of the US and obviously see the people who live there. I know crazy people.
I have led hourlong conversations that ended with the other side claiming that all my statistics are wrong because every university is controlled by marxists and even when i found a study from a distinctly right wing university in japan that still showed the same result they were like 'can you prove japanese are not leftwing too?'.
I have also talked to people who used their special connection to god as an argument in a conversation and that god told them trump has to win.
But that does not change a thing. Even if they were double as crazy, you'd have to somehow get along with them if you are not going to kill or jail a quarter of your country or more (and yes, i know that a lot of more moderate conservatives also have crazy theories in their head. And also that a lot of democrats and lefties do. But again, that does not change a thing, it just makes the right thing harder to do).
I would make the point that talking to people online is not the same as actually witnessing the crazy first hand. Granted that specifically trump supporters weren't a thing when I lived in the US through my university years (and all the time I spent in the US before that for a variety of reasons) but it's definitely different to look the crazy in the eye than to just talk to it on reddit.
To me the getting along you suggest is a pipe dream. Even trying it. It's one thing to get along with people you disagree with... its another to get along with someone who believes you specifically are literally a satan worshipping cannibal pedophile. Specially if that someone has a cabin with way too many guns and thousands of rounds.
Oh there is. And I agree that mainstream gop talking points are not helping. neither are CNNs, neither are the jacobin magazines. That is why i'd advocate. as a very important step, to demilitarize your media language and talking points.
Because they talk the way you talk about them. I am not saying you dont have a better reasoning. I am saying that when i tell them liberals are not crazy and out to kill them and that america needs unification, they go 'yeah but look at BLM they are on street burning out cities, how to reunify with these people'?
And all that means is that america, collectively, needs a very good pitch to the other side about coming together.
I don't know, a lot of this just seems like false equivalencies. Understanding how they think/feel doesn't change anything about the issue.
I cannot fault anyone who fails to see the point in reconciliation with people who would wish to deny their freedoms and existences. There is no tolerance for the intolerant.
Well,. left and right are different in germany than in the US. Merkel is in the conservative party, the christian german union. That party is traditionally center right, but in modern times, center right in germany would be a little to the left of Biden.
Merkel is a progressive force inside the party and reformed it somewhat, bringing it from a party that was notorious for its rhetoric against migrants more to the center, which was also influenced by them being in a coalition with the center left party (so the government can be called true centrist).
Merkel herself is as centrist as it gets, not unlike biden. She seeks consensus even when she does not have to and tries to let the losers keep face because she thinks she has to make a deal again with them someway down the road. That is true even for ppl like trump, putin or erdogan or xi jinping, which has both been effective in foreign politics but also has been part of criticism because she would never do something just for the symbolism (for example by taking some virtue signalling stance she cannot really pull through with)
As a conservative, it makes a lot of sense that she sees a problem with big tech just basically taking the voice from a huge portion of the people of a nation and persons of interest. She certainly despises trump, but still that is a precedent someone like merkel would see as dangerous, even in a situation like that.
Merkel personally is about as hated by the german right extremists and conspiracy theories like clinton or obama, while at least since the refugee crisis, the lefties usually respect her (its a 'she is fine but i would never vote her party' kinda deal).
In a way, she is a traditional conservative. A progressive governs by pushing forward, merkel rather governs by letting the things she sees as inevitable happen while trying to maintain most of the status quo if it still works well enough.
I don't know, a lot of this just seems like false equivalencies. Understanding how they think/feel doesn't change anything about the issue.
I cannot fault anyone who fails to see the point in reconciliation with people who would wish to deny their freedoms and existences. There is no tolerance for the intolerant.
I would make the point that talking to people online is not the same as actually witnessing the crazy first hand. Granted that specifically trump supporters weren't a thing when I lived in the US through my university years (and all the time I spent in the US before that for a variety of reasons) but it's definitely different to look the crazy in the eye than to just talk to it on reddit.
To me the getting along you suggest is a pipe dream. Even trying it. It's one thing to get along with people you disagree with... its another to get along with someone who believes you specifically are literally a satan worshipping cannibal pedophile. Specially if that someone has a cabin with way too many guns and thousands of rounds.
I wanna keep myself short and this goes to both of you. Nothing will change change the fact that you are not going to jail a or suppress a quarter of your country or even more. At least not for long. Short of building up dystopian states or civil wars, it is not so much about whether it will be easy to live together with trump supporters. It is a necessity. It is a question that inevitably needs to be answered if that nation is going to survive.
Yes, they are crazy. So what's next? What are you going to do about it? It just does not stop there, any thought about how the country can move forward starts there. The only way to deal with people politically is by understanding them. If you do not understand what makes them tick, you cannot pacify them.
And these are mostly people who do hold jobs and have a family. They can navigate mostly through their daily life. It is not impossible to find way to pitch the idea of being nonviolent to them.
One big reason why the US saw both left and rightwing mass protests 2020 was covid and people losing their jobs, housing or financial stability. A lot of the violent people would probably not be on street and violent if they had more things to lose. Not because they stop believing in satanic cults, but because they would are occupied and less angry at their own life. Being crazy does not mean you cannot also be somewhat satisfied.
There are concrete and practical ways to pacify people no matter what crazy shit they believe, even if they believe that kamala harris eats babies and ilhan omar married her brother and that the election was a fraud. Even if they are drug addicted shizophreniacs. You underestimate the power of apathy when your life is more stable.
