Discussion Fairy Tail Power Ranking Thread

[Nie Li]

Hax is anything that doesn’t have to do with physical stats. There is hax magic.

Ice Make would be hax magic by that definition.

 

[Kenneth Latorre]

Ice Make would be hax magic by that definition.

If you can bypass physical stats, then yeah.
is that how it works in the series? You know the answer to that.

 

[Ramen]

Hax is magic that defies logic and makes someone OP. Something like Crush.

Ice-Make isn't hax lmao.

 

[Nie Li]

If you can bypass physical stats, then yeah.
is that how it works in the series? You know the answer to that.

So the definition is bypassing physical stats, then? That sounds a bit better than the one on your previous post.

Hax magic is a thing only as an unofficial classification for us readers, but it is not a real category of magic as to say "this character is specifically immune to hax magic", unlike other magic categories like slayers advantages or curses.

Hax is magic that defies logic and makes someone OP. Something like Crush.

Ice-Make isn't hax lmao.

So there is magic that doesn't defy logic? Not a good definition either.

 

[Axiomus]

Hax is just anything that we the fans consider to be cheap or unfair. Midnight's refractor, Freed writing pain runes on you, Mystogan's sleep magic, or Minerva's teleportation are all considered hax. There's no actual in-story difference between magic that we consider to be hax and magic that we don't.

 

[Ramen]

So there is magic that doesn't defy logic? Not a good definition either.

You're confusing real world logic and anime logic.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 10, 2021, Original Post Date: Feb 10, 2021 ---

Hax is just anything that we the fans consider to be cheap or unfair. Midnight's refractor, Freed writing pain runes on you, Mystogan's sleep magic, or Minerva's teleportation are all considered hax. There's no actual in-story difference between magic that we consider to be hax and magic that we don't.

Exactly.

 

[Nie Li]

You're confusing real world logic and anime logic.

Not at all. Hax magic doesn't defy the logic in the manga either.

It's just "unfair" magic.

 

[Ramen]

Not at all. Hax magic doesn't defy the logic in the manga either.

It's just "unfair" magic.

unfair is the same thing as "defying logic"

 

[Nie Li]

unfair is the same thing as "defying logic"

This is equivalent to saying that "cats" and "speed" are the same thing.

It's "unfair", between quotation marks, because this is a battle shonen manga and we expect cool battles and these "hax" (unavoidable through normal means) spells don't make for the cool, sweaty battles we all want to see.

However, how do these spells "defy the logic" in the manga? If anything, that being a decent mage somehow makes you superhuman at physical combat like Erza or Gray, whose spells should not empower their physical stats, is what actually defies the logic of the manga (especially after the manga clearly stated in the early arcs that having strong spells is entirely unrelated to being a strong physical fighter). A spell not making up for cool battles is "unfair" and makes for boring fights, but breaks no logic.

 

[sharkai]

They're not immune, they're just too durable to be hurt. Igneel, Acno's equal/inferior, can harm Acno with pure physical power. Dragons aren't immune to anything other than their own element, unless you're Acno who's element is everything. All you need to hurt a dragon is to be their equal like Igneel was to Acno.

He can't oneshot dragon god Natsu, he'd probably be able to knock him out of his dragon form though. Do you think Eileen herself isn't strong enough to knock Eileen out of her dragon form?
Slayer advantage is a big deal, it's no different to Gray being able to hurt Mard Geer. DId Gray have PoF? Sure, Slayer advantage still carried the load though.
It's not an exception anyone needs to create, it happens all the time, see Wendy doing it to Dimaria's full powered attack. And like Axiomas said, Shiki did it to Genesis' Sema and Genesis is stronger than Shiki, Natsu and Haru combined.
Don't need to create or "single out" Eileen here either since Eileen wasn't oneshot. She tanked a combo attack from Erza and Wendy, an enchanted strike from Erza's fusion swords and a True Benizakura tier attack with super effect DS magic behind it. She also wasn't defeated by all that.

i think they are immune. we really dont have information suggesting otherwise
igneel physical attack. this is interesting because gaint gajeel was also only using physical attack. might have something to do with dragon like properties iin ds bodies

i really dont think so.
the way i see it
dragon natsu > df natsu> base natsu
i really dont think base natsu has any hopes of scratching dragon natsu. same for human eileen

as i said before. it doesnt have to be in dragon case
we know that tartarus mira can kinda beat that macro demon
but even you cant be sure that gildarts with august tier mp can beat zirconis ( the undressing dragon)
its just not the same

there are some exceptions
but there have to be reasons for them
wendy and cana were fine agaist irene and august yet jura got his handed to him against serena (another good example laxus easily tanking kiria roar, but august getting damaged by cana cards). sometimes main charcaters cause this problem, because their place in the plot. but there have to be a reason. wendy blocking dimeria wasnt emphasized on like erza busting dues sema or gray breaking invel armor was.
this is pure example of pof.
otherwise alot of story wont make sense
jellal sema event would just look horrifying for jellal and possible acting career for jura


Don't need to create or "single out" Eileen here either since Eileen wasn't oneshot. She tanked a combo attack from Erza and Wendy, an enchanted strike from Erza's fusion swords and a True Benizakura tier attack with super effect DS magic behind it. She also wasn't defeated by all that.
i meant if this weakness is only for irene
like sema can be broken by someone alot weaker
but laxus reiko red lightening cant be stop by someone alot weaker
and irene dragon can be taken out of her dragon form by someone weaker than her own human form but aconologia dragon form cant be taken out by human aconologia

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 11, 2021, Original Post Date: Feb 11, 2021 ---

I've been entirely consistent on this. Hax magic isn't a real type of magic and dragons aren't immune to magic. Hax is a fan-made term. Dragons simply have super tough scales. Attacks, magical or physical, that try to damage their scales simply end up getting tanked. Dragons can still be mind controlled, healed, or have their magic drained by face.

That's not what I said. Everyone uses POF. Only Natsu uses flames of emotion, which he uses on top of POF. If you take away flames of emotion from Natsu, he would still use POF like everyone else. When Natsu beat Zeref, he was using his flames of emotion.

I mean, he said he lost. Or was losing. He was at the point where he could no longer defend Levy. I think DF Natsu from Alvarez arc would literally incinerate LFD Natsu from 100YQ, yes. Dragon Force is something Natsu uses when he wants to kill top tier opponents like Zeref or Aldoron. LFD is something Natsu is willing to pull out against Lucy.

Acnologia can't stab himself with a sword. He is tougher than any sword. The sword would just bounce off his skin. Against his dragon form, the swords would just break upon impact against his scales. That's exactly what happened when Erza spammed her swords with heaven's wheel. If Ignia in his human form grabbed one of Erza's sword and tried to cut Acnologia with it....What's gonna break would be Erza's sword.

First of all, the Natsu that beat FH Zeref was using FDK. The Natsu that beat human Acno was using 7DS. Neither counts as base Natsu. Anyways, Natsu with Ignia's flames is the strongest version of Natsu we've seen so far, and he still isn't able to oneshot Mercphobia. So no, Alvarez-arc Natsu isn't oneshotting a god dragon.

The POF boost on it's own wouldn't have been enough. Irene literally said that a dragon's scales are harder to cut than a meteor. Even with POF, Erza needed the dragon slaying enchantment to make that cut. Similarly, Natsu had no shortage of POF going into the fight with Mercphobia. His attacks still did pretty much nothing. Natsu had no shortage of POF after he ate Ignia's flames. It still took multiple hits for him to beat Mercphobia. I'm not singling Irene out. I'm just pointing out how the god dragons have good enough stats to not get oneshotted by Erza-tier dragon slayers. Igneel isn't getting oneshotted by Acnologia. Mercphobia wasn't getting oneshotted by Natsu with Ignia's flames. Irene does not, because her dragon form was cut down by Erza. The only way this wouldn't be true is if you think Erza is simply stronger than Natsu with Ignia's flames or Acnologia.

To answer your questions:

• Yes, POF exists.
• Because we're told that flames of emotion is an ancient magic that Natsu uses. Power of Emotions is something everyone has, just by nature of having emotions.
• No.
• No.

i think we are just going around and around the first point.
dragon are pretty much immune (tank durablity whatever ) to non hax magic, as defined by fans here

did natus beat zeref in df form, or was he in base form?

yes aconologia can. irene is tougher than swords as well. we saw irene come out with only small injuries from sword attacks from erza. irene easily made the sword go throw her. aconologia would be able to do the same. that water god dragon being one shot by kiria could come here and another example lacarde blocking kagura sword with two fingers. mp means durablity (mostly), one has ability to manipulate it however he or she wants

if you believe pof exists, then why are you saying laxus can do that too?

this is not true and you know it. in 5 or 10 years if we see erza fighting one of the god dragons alone, you know the good guy will win the same. this is how mishma draws fight (mostly for erza). yes, even though pof erza was hitting slightly above august top tier move, irene was immune to non hax magical attacks

1. if pof exist, why are you saying laxus can do what erza can do?
2. what do you mean ancient. when did people use this magic? werent mard, koyoka, zeref and irene not present in this ancient time you speak of?
why was invel, wahl, kyoka, irene taken by suprise by pof of their opponents (especially since you claim pof isnt special but flames of emotion is, even that should not be special for people who were present 400 years ago)
3. why not. dragon irene can one shot erza. as far as we know gmg jellal cant one shot lyon (low or maybe mid diff). why can erza stops irene top move while lyon cant stop jellal top move
4. why not. dont you think its more to do with the way mishma draws a fight.

 

[Axiomus]

Dragons aren't immune to magic. Period. Animus was affected by Zast's magic. The 7 dragons were affected by future Rogue's mind control. Doctor Acno can use magic to heal original Acno. Face would have eventually drained the dragons of their magic too. Dragons simply have scales that are really tough. The only dragon that has immunity to all magic is Acno. Everyone else is only resistant to their own elements, the same way slayers are.

Natsu beat Zeref with an FDK spell. That's not base or DF. Though that particular FDK spell was stronger than DF because he maxed out his flames of emotions.

Human Irene's skin isn't tougher than Erza's sword. Wendy's claw attack and Erza's slashes made her bleed. Erza's headbutt made her cough up blood. She stabbed herself with Erza's sword. Acnologia's skin is impervious to damage from Gajeel's sword, which is above Wendy's claws at least.

Irene plays by the same rule as everyone else. She's just considerably less durable than the God Dragons. If you got an army of 1 million Natsu's each using a FDK destruction fists, it would only do around 1% damage to Aldoron's 100,000,000hp. How much damage do you think Irene would take from a million FDK destruction fists?

Are you seriously telling me that Erza is stronger than Natsu with Ignia's flames or Acno when she fought Irene? Because that's the only way to justify Irene having God Dragon tier stats.

Laxus use POF too. I dont understand the issue.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 11, 2021, Original Post Date: Feb 11, 2021 ---

1. if pof exist, why are you saying laxus can do what erza can do?
2. what do you mean ancient. when did people use this magic? werent mard, koyoka, zeref and irene not present in this ancient time you speak of?
why was invel, wahl, kyoka, irene taken by suprise by pof of their opponents (especially since you claim pof isnt special but flames of emotion is, even that should not be special for people who were present 400 years ago)
3. why not. dragon irene can one shot erza. as far as we know gmg jellal cant one shot lyon (low or maybe mid diff). why can erza stops irene top move while lyon cant stop jellal top move
4. why not. dont you think its more to do with the way mishma draws a fight.

Because Laxus can use POF too.

Ancient spell is an actual term from the manga. It refers to magic from 400 years ago. Lost magic and Dragon Slaying magic are all ancient spells. Natsu's flames of emotions are a part of his dragon slaying magic, as that's the only ancient spell he knows.

Why wouldn't Jellal be able to one-shot Lyon? Jura ones jotted Orga with a karate chip, and Orga is arguably stronger than Lyon. Technically, Irene didn't one-shot Erza either. Erza still mustered enough strength to cut the meteor, defeat Irene's dragon form, and then headbutt Irene afterwards. But I'm getting off topic. Unlike Lyon, Laxus actually stalemated the swords that Erza used to cut Irene's meteor. Lyon got done in by Gray and Juvia's unison raid.

Because he can't one-shot Igneel in his dragon form, which is stronger than his human form. If the God Dragons can one shot themselves, then they would one-shot each other.... But they don't.

 

[sharkai]

Dragons aren't immune to magic. Period. Animus was affected by Zast's magic. The 7 dragons were affected by future Rogue's mind control. Doctor Acno can use magic to heal original Acno. Face would have eventually drained the dragons of their magic too. Dragons simply have scales that are really tough. The only dragon that has immunity to all magic is Acno. Everyone else is only resistant to their own elements, the same way slayers are.

Natsu beat Zeref with an FDK spell. That's not base or DF. Though that particular FDK spell was stronger than DF because he maxed out his flames of emotions.

Human Irene's skin isn't tougher than Erza's sword. Wendy's claw attack and Erza's slashes made her bleed. Erza's headbutt made her cough up blood. She stabbed herself with Erza's sword. Acnologia's skin is impervious to damage from Gajeel's sword, which is above Wendy's claws at least.

Irene plays by the same rule as everyone else. She's just considerably less durable than the God Dragons. If you got an army of 1 million Natsu's each using a FDK destruction fists, it would only do around 1% damage to Aldoron's 100,000,000hp. How much damage do you think Irene would take from a million FDK destruction fists?

Are you seriously telling me that Erza is stronger than Natsu with Ignia's flames or Acno when she fought Irene? Because that's the only way to justify Irene having God Dragon tier stats.

Laxus use POF too. I dont understand the issue.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 11, 2021, Original Post Date: Feb 11, 2021 ---

Because Laxus can use POF too.

Ancient spell is an actual term from the manga. It refers to magic from 400 years ago. Lost magic and Dragon Slaying magic are all ancient spells. Natsu's flames of emotions are a part of his dragon slaying magic, as that's the only ancient spell he knows.

Why wouldn't Jellal be able to one-shot Lyon? Jura ones jotted Orga with a karate chip, and Orga is arguably stronger than Lyon. Technically, Irene didn't one-shot Erza either. Erza still mustered enough strength to cut the meteor, defeat Irene's dragon form, and then headbutt Irene afterwards. But I'm getting off topic. Unlike Lyon, Laxus actually stalemated the swords that Erza used to cut Irene's meteor. Lyon got done in by Gray and Juvia's unison raid.

Because he can't one-shot Igneel in his dragon form, which is stronger than his human form. If the God Dragons can one shot themselves, then they would one-shot each other.... But they don't.

Human Irene's skin isn't tougher than Erza's sword. Wendy's claw attack and Erza's slashes made her bleed. Erza's headbutt made her cough up blood. She stabbed herself with Erza's sword. Acnologia's skin is impervious to damage from Gajeel's sword, which is above Wendy's claws at least.

But kiria roar can knock Mercophobia out?

Irene plays by the same rule as everyone else. She's just considerably less durable than the God Dragons. If you got an army of 1 million Natsu's each using a FDK destruction fists, it would only do around 1% damage to Aldoron's 100,000,000hp. How much damage do you think Irene would take from a million FDK destruction fists?

Are you seriously telling me that Erza is stronger than Natsu with Ignia's flames or Acno when she fought Irene? Because that's the only way to justify Irene having God Dragon tier stats.

Never my point. always compared human dragon gods with their own dragon form

Because Laxus can use POF too.

So everyone POF is equal?

Ancient spell is an actual term from the manga. It refers to magic from 400 years ago. Lost magic and Dragon Slaying magic are all ancient spells. Natsu's flames of emotions are a part of his dragon slaying magic, as that's the only ancient spell he knows.

Who taught natsu this flames of emotion? where did erigor heard it from? why did natsu not use it against jellal and laxus and hades and rouge and mard?

Why wouldn't Jellal be able to one-shot Lyon? Jura ones jotted Orga with a karate chip, and Orga is arguably stronger than Lyon. Technically, Irene didn't one-shot Erza either. Erza still mustered enough strength to cut the meteor, defeat Irene's dragon form, and then headbutt Irene afterwards. But I'm getting off topic. Unlike Lyon, Laxus actually stalemated the swords that Erza used to cut Irene's meteor. Lyon got done in by Gray and Juvia's unison raid.

diverting!
my question is if someone alot weaker than dragon irene can stop deus sema, why cant lyon stop jellal sema as well (who is also alot weaker than jellal)? why did jellal use it against jura? why was jura sweating?

Because he can't one-shot Igneel in his dragon form, which is stronger than his human form. If the God Dragons can one shot themselves, then they would one-shot each other.... But they don't.

this, finally is a good point.
here we have two possibilities
1. dragon once passes a certain threshold (to become a god dragon), the boost they get from going dragon can overcome their vulnerability to ds magic, even if the ds magic caster is dragon god human level or even god dragon level him or her self (acnologia not one shotting igneel)
2. or erza pof was so large, that she was essentially hitting above dragon irene level at that time. (similar situation, dragon god being blown out of their dragon form by a ds attack stronger than their own strongest move). thus ds vulnerability isnt anymore issue for irene than it is for dragon god, just the strength is the problem

above point 1 is weak. god dragon is not a literal thing. these dragons just are so strong people are calling them god dragon. other then strength they have nothing special about them selves. no special boost or immunity. they are just super strong dragons
in other words
dragon irene vs human irene will go very similar to fight like dragon aconolgia vs human aconolgia

point 2 is more strong.
pof erza could have been above dragon irene for that moment. this also helps with gmg jellal situation. lyon cant stop jellal sema, hell, even jura might not be able to stop it (thus jellal doesnt look like a retard for using it).

 

[Seven777]

i think they are immune. we really dont have information suggesting otherwise
igneel physical attack. this is interesting because gaint gajeel was also only using physical attack. might have something to do with dragon like properties iin ds bodies

i really dont think so.
the way i see it
dragon natsu > df natsu> base natsu
i really dont think base natsu has any hopes of scratching dragon natsu. same for human eileen

as i said before. it doesnt have to be in dragon case
we know that tartarus mira can kinda beat that macro demon
but even you cant be sure that gildarts with august tier mp can beat zirconis ( the undressing dragon)
its just not the same

there are some exceptions
but there have to be reasons for them
wendy and cana were fine agaist irene and august yet jura got his handed to him against serena (another good example laxus easily tanking kiria roar, but august getting damaged by cana cards). sometimes main charcaters cause this problem, because their place in the plot. but there have to be a reason. wendy blocking dimeria wasnt emphasized on like erza busting dues sema or gray breaking invel armor was.
this is pure example of pof.
otherwise alot of story wont make sense
jellal sema event would just look horrifying for jellal and possible acting career for jura


Don't need to create or "single out" Eileen here either since Eileen wasn't oneshot. She tanked a combo attack from Erza and Wendy, an enchanted strike from Erza's fusion swords and a True Benizakura tier attack with super effect DS magic behind it. She also wasn't defeated by all that.
i meant if this weakness is only for irene
like sema can be broken by someone alot weaker
but laxus reiko red lightening cant be stop by someone alot weaker
and irene dragon can be taken out of her dragon form by someone weaker than her own human form but aconologia dragon form cant be taken out by human aconologia

They're not immune, they're just tough, we know this for a fact as they are affected by a multitude of magics. And like I said, Igneel with nothing but physical force, hurt Acnologia.

So you think Human Eileen can't scratch Dragon Eileen, despite Erza being able to do so? Erza>>>Human EIleen then lol? I don't think so.

It is the same, they had slayer advantage and were undeniably established as the weaker fighter, or are you saying Erza wasn't established as Eileen's inferior? She was, just like Gray was to Mard Geer, so the difference in strength between Erza and Eileen is about the same as the difference between Gray and Mard, they prob had similar PoF too.
As for Zirconis, the reason he is hard to gauge is because we have no idea how powerful he is, we do with Eileen and Mard Geer.

Yes, exactly, so we don't need to "create exceptions" for Eileen, she is just one of the many.
As for Jellal's Sema looking horrifying, no more than Genesis' did, or Eileen's for that matter.

Oh, it's not only for Eileen. It's for all Sema's as seen by Genesis.
Laxus' Red Lightning could probably be stopped by Freed's runes. Most magic can be stopped by one thing or another.
Acnologia is immune to magic, Eileen isn't. But chances are Acno is just generally more durable than Eileen even within his tier. That said, I don't see a reason why human Acno wouldn't be able to knock himself out of his dragon form. Certainly more plausible than Erza>>>human Eileen.

 

[sharkai]

They're not immune, they're just tough, we know this for a fact as they are affected by a multitude of magics. And like I said, Igneel with nothing but physical force, hurt Acnologia.

So you think Human Eileen can't scratch Dragon Eileen, despite Erza being able to do so? Erza>>>Human EIleen then lol? I don't think so.

It is the same, they had slayer advantage and were undeniably established as the weaker fighter, or are you saying Erza wasn't established as Eileen's inferior? She was, just like Gray was to Mard Geer, so the difference in strength between Erza and Eileen is about the same as the difference between Gray and Mard, they prob had similar PoF too.
As for Zirconis, the reason he is hard to gauge is because we have no idea how powerful he is, we do with Eileen and Mard Geer.

Yes, exactly, so we don't need to "create exceptions" for Eileen, she is just one of the many.
As for Jellal's Sema looking horrifying, no more than Genesis' did, or Eileen's for that matter.

Oh, it's not only for Eileen. It's for all Sema's as seen by Genesis.
Laxus' Red Lightning could probably be stopped by Freed's runes. Most magic can be stopped by one thing or another.
Acnologia is immune to magic, Eileen isn't. But chances are Acno is just generally more durable than Eileen even within his tier. That said, I don't see a reason why human Acno wouldn't be able to knock himself out of his dragon form. Certainly more plausible than Erza>>>human Eileen.

Brandish made gajeel a gaint, not elfman. dragon or ds can bypass this dragon durablity

its not
because we have never seen deon fight demon, or gods fighting gods. we dont know if god slayer becomes a god, we dont know well 100% if demon slayer becomes a demon.
but dragons just uses the same magic as a ds. Eileen might not have been weaker to ds magic, rather pof erza was jsut amped that much. that was the point of destroying dues sema. otherwise that panel could have been just avoided and erza with ds could have said i just need one clear hit

jellal also looks redarded for using it against jura, he should have known someone alot weaker than himself can handle it. just waste of mp

freed runes are different (hax if you will). its like saying reiko red lightening can be completely stalemated by an average gray ds move

we dont know if aconologia is more durable within his tier. he is basically resistant to all magic
similarly we dont knew where irene durablity stand within her own tier.

I don't see a reason why human Acno wouldn't be able to knock himself out of his dragon form.
that is what i am discussing with @Axiomus

 

[Seven777]

Brandish made gajeel a gaint, not elfman. dragon or ds can bypass this dragon durablity

its not
because we have never seen deon fight demon, or gods fighting gods. we dont know if god slayer becomes a god, we dont know well 100% if demon slayer becomes a demon.
but dragons just uses the same magic as a ds. Eileen might not have been weaker to ds magic, rather pof erza was jsut amped that much. that was the point of destroying dues sema. otherwise that panel could have been just avoided and erza with ds could have said i just need one clear hit

jellal also looks redarded for using it against jura, he should have known someone alot weaker than himself can handle it. just waste of mp

freed runes are different (hax if you will). its like saying reiko red lightening can be completely stalemated by an average gray ds move

we dont know if aconologia is more durable within his tier. he is basically resistant to all magic
similarly we dont knew where irene durablity stand within her own tier.

I don't see a reason why human Acno wouldn't be able to knock himself out of his dragon form.
that is what i am discussing with @Axiomus

So? Doesn't change the fact that we know for a fact dragons aren't immune to magic, even just now you called it durability, which is what it is, durability.

Eileen might not have been weak to DS? Come now, let's not be disingenuous. We both know without a shadow of a doubt that she is, the manga lays it out clearly in the chapter, that's why Wendy did what she did.
Gray was weaker than Mard, that's what the manga portrayed, yes?
Erza was weaker than Eileen, that's what the manga portrayed, yes?
They both had PoF, they both had Slayer advantage, Slayer advantage carried the load, that's why they used it.
You're acting like Erza is the only character who gets PoF lol. No, Gray had just as much PoF against Mard, he was absolutely determined to slaughter all of Tartaros for the sake of his father. He still needed his slayer advantage. Why? Because he was too weak. PoF didn't bump Gray up to Mard's level, Slayer advantage did, and it's the same with Erza.

Not really, Genesis didn't look like a retard, Sema was still imposing. As for it being a waste, all Jellal really has to do is attack while it's falling.

Sure, not my point. My point is most magic can be stopped one way or another, including hax, including Sema, they're not all stopped the same way though, so comparing it to a move from Laxus or Gray is pointless.

Sure, all we know is that Erza is %100 weaker than she is, and yet still managed to critically injure her because of Slayer advantage, similar to Gray and Mard.

 

[sharkai]

So? Doesn't change the fact that we know for a fact dragons aren't immune to magic, even just now you called it durability, which is what it is, durability.

Eileen might not have been weak to DS? Come now, let's not be disingenuous. We both know without a shadow of a doubt that she is, the manga lays it out clearly in the chapter, that's why Wendy did what she did.
Gray was weaker than Mard, that's what the manga portrayed, yes?
Erza was weaker than Eileen, that's what the manga portrayed, yes?
They both had PoF, they both had Slayer advantage, Slayer advantage carried the load, that's why they used it.
You're acting like Erza is the only character who gets PoF lol. No, Gray had just as much PoF against Mard, he was absolutely determined to slaughter all of Tartaros for the sake of his father. He still needed his slayer advantage. Why? Because he was too weak. PoF didn't bump Gray up to Mard's level, Slayer advantage did, and it's the same with Erza.

Not really, Genesis didn't look like a retard, Sema was still imposing. As for it being a waste, all Jellal really has to do is attack while it's falling.

Sure, not my point. My point is most magic can be stopped one way or another, including hax, including Sema, they're not all stopped the same way though, so comparing it to a move from Laxus or Gray is pointless.

Sure, all we know is that Erza is %100 weaker than she is, and yet still managed to critically injure her because of Slayer advantage, similar to Gray and Mard.

you can call it whatever. i perfer to call it immunity, but some people seems to have a problem with it.

err, no. she said no matter what erza did. it wont effect her because immunity provided by her scales. it was not like gray saying he just needed one hit to put down mard. and sadly aconlogia didnt one shot igneel, throwing all your points straight in the trash bin. dragons can fight each other, dragon uses same magic as ds. there are not weak to their own magic. there are just not immune to them either. ds is not just an efficient way to kill dragon, its the only way. leaving it unclear for reader whether ds effects dragons like normal magic effects human or are dragon weak to dragon magic.

wouldnt work. jura with 50% power can block or break sema, and use the rest to block what ever else jellal has. at the end jellal will severly diplished in mp, and jura would be just the way he was before

not really. hax complicates thing. i think its a cheap way for you get out. if you had use normal things i wouldnt have said anything. its like saying aconoligia roar can also be handled by mystogan, just use shadow body. compared to saying mystogan can reflect aconologia roar.
brute vs brute
brute vs hax

sadly gray mentioned or showed many times that mard was weak to his magic
nothing like this was for erza
adding the fact that erza handled deus sema just supports that she was doing things beyond eileen expectations or power

 

[Axiomus]

Human Irene's skin isn't tougher than Erza's sword. Wendy's claw attack and Erza's slashes made her bleed. Erza's headbutt made her cough up blood. She stabbed herself with Erza's sword. Acnologia's skin is impervious to damage from Gajeel's sword, which is above Wendy's claws at least.

But kiria roar can knock Mercophobia out?

Irene plays by the same rule as everyone else. She's just considerably less durable than the God Dragons. If you got an army of 1 million Natsu's each using a FDK destruction fists, it would only do around 1% damage to Aldoron's 100,000,000hp. How much damage do you think Irene would take from a million FDK destruction fists?

Are you seriously telling me that Erza is stronger than Natsu with Ignia's flames or Acno when she fought Irene? Because that's the only way to justify Irene having God Dragon tier stats.

Never my point. always compared human dragon gods with their own dragon form

Because Laxus can use POF too.

So everyone POF is equal?

Ancient spell is an actual term from the manga. It refers to magic from 400 years ago. Lost magic and Dragon Slaying magic are all ancient spells. Natsu's flames of emotions are a part of his dragon slaying magic, as that's the only ancient spell he knows.

Who taught natsu this flames of emotion? where did erigor heard it from? why did natsu not use it against jellal and laxus and hades and rouge and mard?

Why wouldn't Jellal be able to one-shot Lyon? Jura ones jotted Orga with a karate chip, and Orga is arguably stronger than Lyon. Technically, Irene didn't one-shot Erza either. Erza still mustered enough strength to cut the meteor, defeat Irene's dragon form, and then headbutt Irene afterwards. But I'm getting off topic. Unlike Lyon, Laxus actually stalemated the swords that Erza used to cut Irene's meteor. Lyon got done in by Gray and Juvia's unison raid.

diverting!
my question is if someone alot weaker than dragon irene can stop deus sema, why cant lyon stop jellal sema as well (who is also alot weaker than jellal)? why did jellal use it against jura? why was jura sweating?

Because he can't one-shot Igneel in his dragon form, which is stronger than his human form. If the God Dragons can one shot themselves, then they would one-shot each other.... But they don't.

this, finally is a good point.
here we have two possibilities
1. dragon once passes a certain threshold (to become a god dragon), the boost they get from going dragon can overcome their vulnerability to ds magic, even if the ds magic caster is dragon god human level or even god dragon level him or her self (acnologia not one shotting igneel)
2. or erza pof was so large, that she was essentially hitting above dragon irene level at that time. (similar situation, dragon god being blown out of their dragon form by a ds attack stronger than their own strongest move). thus ds vulnerability isnt anymore issue for irene than it is for dragon god, just the strength is the problem

above point 1 is weak. god dragon is not a literal thing. these dragons just are so strong people are calling them god dragon. other then strength they have nothing special about them selves. no special boost or immunity. they are just super strong dragons
in other words
dragon irene vs human irene will go very similar to fight like dragon aconolgia vs human aconolgia

Mercphobia had his power taken by Faris at that time, as noted by Skullion. It wasn't until later that Faris gave him back his power.

POF isn't always equal, no. But I see no reason for the difference between Erza and Laxus to be that huge.

Igneel taught Natsu, and Natsu uses flames of emotions all the time. Just to varying degrees.

I don't understand your question. Why should Lyon be able to smash Jellal's Sema just because people weaker than Irene can smash Deus Sema? I don't believe Lyon can stop Jellal's sema because he couldn't stop the Gruvia unison raid, and Sema got past Midnight's refractor and took out Oracion.

Yes. At a certain point, a dragon's durability outweighs their vulnerability to dragon slaying magic, to the point where it is better to just be a dragon. You don't necessarily have to be a God Dragon either. We don't know exactly how strong you have to be. All we know is that at Irene's level, Erza wielding an enchanted katana is a serious threat. And at Aldoron's level, an army of 1 million Natsu's barely does anything. Where the breakeven point is between that is anyone's guess.

 

[Seven777]

you can call it whatever. i perfer to call it immunity, but some people seems to have a problem with it.

err, no. she said no matter what erza did. it wont effect her because immunity provided by her scales. it was not like gray saying he just needed one hit to put down mard. and sadly aconlogia didnt one shot igneel, throwing all your points straight in the trash bin. dragons can fight each other, dragon uses same magic as ds. there are not weak to their own magic. there are just not immune to them either. ds is not just an efficient way to kill dragon, its the only way. leaving it unclear for reader whether ds effects dragons like normal magic effects human or are dragon weak to dragon magic.

wouldnt work. jura with 50% power can block or break sema, and use the rest to block what ever else jellal has. at the end jellal will severly diplished in mp, and jura would be just the way he was before

not really. hax complicates thing. i think its a cheap way for you get out. if you had use normal things i wouldnt have said anything. its like saying aconoligia roar can also be handled by mystogan, just use shadow body. compared to saying mystogan can reflect aconologia roar.
brute vs brute
brute vs hax

sadly gray mentioned or showed many times that mard was weak to his magic
nothing like this was for erza
adding the fact that erza handled deus sema just supports that she was doing things beyond eileen expectations or power

Because that's not what it is.

It is exactly like Gray. Eileen/Natsu rave about durability, and then Gray/Wendy say no, slayer magic.
Why does Acno not oneshotting Igneel matter? Erza didn't oneshot Eileen.

If that were the case no one would ever get hit ever, they'd just delegate percentages of their power to deal with different moves every time.

Hax isn't a real thing, it's a term we made up. And the reason you feel it's cheap is because you find it difficult to argue against. Not like I need it anyway. Erza's magic is broken all the time, Genesis' Sema as well. We can go specific like brute vs brute if you like, but I can do you one better and go even more specific like physical objects vs physical objects? Like say Benizakura being shattered by Kyria.

No, this is what Gray says about his Demon Slayer magic against Mard

Spoiler

DIRECTLY comparing it to DS magic. So yes, Gray and Erza are the same, they are obviously the same. Everything in the manga says Eileen>>Erza, and yet here you are trying to argue that Erza isn't just Eileen's equal, but her superior. It's ludicrous, especially when we have a clear and simple explanation for why she could do what she did, Slayer advantage being an advantage like it always has been. So no, Erza wasn't stronger than Eileen, her strength compared to Eileen is more or less the same as Gray's strength compared to Mard. Sure Erza has a few feats in her favour like destroying Deus Sema, and Gray has a few like not getting all his bones broken, but overall, their performance is comparabl.e

 

[sharkai]

Mercphobia had his power taken by Faris at that time, as noted by Skullion. It wasn't until later that Faris gave him back his power.

POF isn't always equal, no. But I see no reason for the difference between Erza and Laxus to be that huge.

Igneel taught Natsu, and Natsu uses flames of emotions all the time. Just to varying degrees.

I don't understand your question. Why should Lyon be able to smash Jellal's Sema just because people weaker than Irene can smash Deus Sema? I don't believe Lyon can stop Jellal's sema because he couldn't stop the Gruvia unison raid, and Sema got past Midnight's refractor and took out Oracion.

Yes. At a certain point, a dragon's durability outweighs their vulnerability to dragon slaying magic, to the point where it is better to just be a dragon. You don't necessarily have to be a God Dragon either. We don't know exactly how strong you have to be. All we know is that at Irene's level, Erza wielding an enchanted katana is a serious threat. And at Aldoron's level, an army of 1 million Natsu's barely does anything. Where the breakeven point is between that is anyone's guess.

Faris took his skin lol

so basically only one person in the entire history used flames of emotions. natsu used flames of emotions or pof against say gajeel, laxus?
igneel is the master of flames of emotions, i see. so why didnt igneel one shot aconologia with flames of emotions. i mean igneel is almost as strong as aconologia, has ds advantage, and apparently can also use flames of emotion (much better than natsu obviously)

simple. you have to be equal or stronger to over power mages strongest attack. lyon does not have power to stop jellal sema, he doesnt have power to stop that union raid. this means erza should be same. she shouldnt have been able to destroy deus sema. she did, with pof. meaning pof erza is alot stronger than erza

this is called headcannon. a better explanation is dragons arent weak to ds magic. their scales just dont handle it like they do normal magic. that is why aconologia didnt one shot igneel. even though he was around igneel level. yet pof erza did one shot irene. the unknown factor is pof. nothing else

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 11, 2021, Original Post Date: Feb 11, 2021 ---

Because that's not what it is.

It is exactly like Gray. Eileen/Natsu rave about durability, and then Gray/Wendy say no, slayer magic.
Why does Acno not oneshotting Igneel matter? Erza didn't oneshot Eileen.

If that were the case no one would ever get hit ever, they'd just delegate percentages of their power to deal with different moves every time.

Hax isn't a real thing, it's a term we made up. And the reason you feel it's cheap is because you find it difficult to argue against. Not like I need it anyway. Erza's magic is broken all the time, Genesis' Sema as well. We can go specific like brute vs brute if you like, but I can do you one better and go even more specific like physical objects vs physical objects? Like say Benizakura being shattered by Kyria.

No, this is what Gray says about his Demon Slayer magic against Mard

Spoiler

DIRECTLY comparing it to DS magic. So yes, Gray and Erza are the same, they are obviously the same. Everything in the manga says Eileen>>Erza, and yet here you are trying to argue that Erza isn't just Eileen's equal, but her superior. It's ludicrous, especially when we have a clear and simple explanation for why she could do what she did, Slayer advantage being an advantage like it always has been. So no, Erza wasn't stronger than Eileen, her strength compared to Eileen is more or less the same as Gray's strength compared to Mard. Sure Erza has a few feats in her favour like destroying Deus Sema, and Gray has a few like not getting all his bones broken, but overall, their performance is comparabl.e

we dont know what it is.

it is possible. if someone alot weaker than jura can handle sema. then jura can handle sema causally. if it was difficult for jura sure, then i agree with you. but that means weaker mages than jura would find it impossible to handle

nope, sorry cant see your panels
because erza is alot weaker than eileen. if ds advantage was such a huge thing aconologia (who is already stonger than igneel) should have one shot igneel and all parents dragon in one move.

obviously, its hard to argue against hax. i know grey mid tier ds move will easily be overpowered by equivalent moves alot weaker than reiko one. and i also know freed runes easily allowed him to trap markarov with out mp problem. you dont know if freed rune will stop acno from doing magic. (that is why i hate hax). this why i think you cheaped out by stopping reiko by freed runes

erza kiria example doesnt work. we dont know if erza is putting alot of effort into it. every single benzikura swing isnt equal. otherwise pre ts erza was alot stronger than hell even gildarts

everything in the manga also screamed deus sema is above that irene claw swipe. and again why didnt aconologia one shot igneel? where did his ds advantage go
erza deus sema feat is like gray breaking invel armor without ds form

 

[Kurumi Tokisaki]

dragons can fight each other, dragon uses same magic as ds. there are not weak to their own magic. there are just not immune to them either. ds is not just an efficient way to kill dragon, its the only way. leaving it unclear for reader whether ds effects dragons like normal magic effects human or are dragon weak to dragon magic.

Zeref Curse(Ankeseram Death Magic) was killing Aldoron and would have killed him if the god seed didn't choose to disappear.