American Politics

[kkck]

Because it's disrespectful otherwise to just wear it as an accessory? I mean, you can google this for a better explanation if you want

I have, but I don't see any reason to expect more of people for wearing an accesory based on skin color. Nor see the logic in the prerequisite for wearing an accessory being 5 minutes on wikipedia.

 

[Sanity Check]

...

I remember the following quotation being a good old school topic for political debate.

Has anyone kept up with the mandalorian TV series?




Do people want freedom. Or order. ^ Epic scene.

That seems like something that might be a good topic for political debate today.

...

Would anyone care to share their thoughts on this?

 

[z.5]

The weighing of 'freedom' VS 'order' is not really all that relevant to this thread

But, that said, I don't think anyone [at least any sane person] wants to live in a truly 'free' society - as rules can be a very good thing

For example: rules against rape, murder, thievery... I'm hopeful that no one here would want to argue that they would want others to have absolute freedom to perform such activities

If this topic is of particular interest to you (and a thread doesn't already exist [I've not checked]), then I could make a thread for you to discuss it - if you wanted?

 

[M3J]

That quote is dumb. Extremism is always a vice, especially given how violent (and ironic) so-called defenders of liberty get.

 

[Sanity Check]

The weighting of 'freedom' VS 'order' is not really all that relevant to this thread

But, that said, I don't think anyone [at least any sane person] wants to live in a truly 'free' society - as rules can be a very good thing

For example: rules against rape, murder, thievery... I'm hopeful that no one here would want to argue that they would want others to have absolute freedom to perform such activities

If this topic is of particular interest to you (and a thread doesn't already exist [I've not checked]), then I could make a thread for you to discuss it - if you wanted?

"Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice........" is a famous topic for political discussion in the USA.


Above you can see an old debate where Malcom X tried to discuss it.

Freedom vs order is something like an informal and modern spinoff to that theme.

That's one way it could tie into "american politics".

 

[z.5]

It is not an inherently American topic and certainly not one solely related to American politics

Feel free to bring arguments about loss of liberty/freedom or oppressive use of force by police/whatever, if it is couched in a discussion about politics in America

But, if your purpose is to discuss this topic specifically, in general, and in a way unrelated to the thread topic (American Politics), then I feel a brand new thread would be more suitable

No need to 'tie it into' the thread. If you think it's a worthy discussion then making a new thread is a good idea!

If your only point in bringing it up is to somehow score some cheap points (VS the Liberals/Democrats/Republicans/whoever) then it's probably not worth a new thread (and in all likelihood leading towards a pretty weak strawman in the making)

 

[M3J]

If this is in relation to Trump, Parler, and some Republicans, they got banned (Trump permanently apparently) because they were inciting violence. Trump should have been banned long time for lying, misinforming, and being bigoted but he wasn't because Twitter benefited from it and because they're more partial to conservatives, from what I've seen.

Conservatives aren't innocent, but they still have more freedom of speech than anyone on the left or pro-Black people.

 

[Sanity Check]

Feel free to bring arguments about loss of liberty/freedom or oppressive use of force by police/whatever

Do people want freedom. Or order.

That ^ is a question of liberty vs oppressive use of force to enforce order.



If you want I be more specific. The question was meant to encompass current events in the USA.

Kind of pointless now that M3J already answered. I was only curious what people would say.

All of the common perspectives have already been covered:

I'm mostly curious which direction the wind is blowing atm.

 

[M3J]

If someone like Bernie was calling for violence, he'd get suspended, and I don't know about a lot of his supporters, but I'd most likely agree with the suspension. It's silly and ridiculous how the right love victimizing themselves just because they get a bit of backlash for bigotry.

Fact is, the right don't care about freedom of speech or freedom, they just care about being able to say and do whatever they want, no matter how evil or horrible, without repercussions given that they're okay with or silent when the left or Dems get silenced. Just look at the reaction to Kaepernick protesting racism. Where were they defending him not being hired? If the same thing happened to a white supremacist, they'd be raising a ruckus trying to get him hired and cry about freedom of speech being infringed.

 

[Sanity Check]

Bernie

Speaking of Bernie.

The PDCF was one of a hodgepodge of programs set up by the Federal Reserve and administered by the New York Fed from December 2007 to at least July 2010. In total, the Fed shoveled out $29 trillion cumulatively through all of its programs to bail out Wall Street banks, their foreign derivative counterparties and foreign central banks – without any authorization or even awareness by Congress of the staggering sums of money the Fed was pumping out.

The public and Congress only found out about the unchecked money spigot at the Fed when Senator Bernie Sanders attached an amendment to the Dodd-Frank financial reform legislation of 2010 that forced a release of the Fed data to the public and mandated an audit by the Government Accountability Office (GAO).

The Federal Reserve Now Owns 15 Percent of the U.S. Treasury Market; At Its Current Rate, It Could Own the Whole Market in Less than Two Years

By Pam Martens and Russ Martens: March 28, 2020 ~ “The More I See Of The Moneyed Classes, The More I Understand the Guillotine.” ~ George Bernard Shaw

wallstreetonparade.com

I might have figured out why Bernie was thrown overboard by democrats twice in 2016 and 2020 BTW.

It appears Bernie was a whistleblower on federal reserve $29 trillion QE programs around the globe back in 2010.

...

At first I thought Bernie was like this:

Then I realized he might be a little like this:

 

[hokageji]

If someone like Bernie was calling for violence, he'd get suspended, and I don't know about a lot of his supporters, but I'd most likely agree with the suspension. It's silly and ridiculous how the right love victimizing themselves just because they get a bit of backlash for bigotry.

Fact is, the right don't care about freedom of speech or freedom, they just care about being able to say and do whatever they want, no matter how evil or horrible, without repercussions given that they're okay with or silent when the left or Dems get silenced. Just look at the reaction to Kaepernick protesting racism. Where were they defending him not being hired? If the same thing happened to a white supremacist, they'd be raising a ruckus trying to get him hired and cry about freedom of speech being infringed.

If Bernie gets cancelled for violence, that would be the left's fault though, right? Hypothetically speaking, if Bernie comes out and says, kill the millionaires, and the confederate flag holders, sure the right will beg for him to be cancelled, but the left will comply. The opposite never happens

 

[M3J]

If Bernie gets cancelled for violence, that would be the left's fault though, right? Hypothetically speaking, if Bernie comes out and says, kill the millionaires, and the confederate flag holders, sure the right will beg for him to be cancelled, but the left will comply. The opposite never happens

What do you mean? Wouldn't it be Bernie's fault for inciting violence, while the left who do comply do deserve to be blamed as well?

 

[hokageji]

What do you mean? Wouldn't it be Bernie's fault for inciting violence, while the left who do comply do deserve to be blamed as well?

Aah nevermind, i misread your post, please ignore...
I dont mean the left would be wrong, but they fail to unite behind like the right...

 

[M3J]

Oooh, yeah that's likely because the left are more diverse in thoughts and stuff. You have socialists, communists, whatever is left of centrism but not socialist, and perhaps centrist/moderate Dems if you consider them left, which I personally don't.

 

[hokageji]

Yes, butt hey should unite better over more important issues.

 

[kkck]

Yes, butt hey should unite better over more important issues.

The problem with this is that pretty much every faction of the left has its own priorities. It's easy to say they should unite over more important issues but the fact is that each group has its own view over what the more important issues are. And when they rally behind a big one they usually give up on their own priorities. Case in point, the last election. removing trump became the overriding priority but plenty of left wing groups straight up gave up on their priority policy positions... Which is pretty much what mainstream democrats ask all the time without those important policy positions ever seeing any closer. Take the big one, medicare for all. It's not really any closer now than it was under trump.

 

[M3J]

Yes, butt hey should unite better over more important issues.

yep, but it depends. Centrist/liberals are different from the left, and the main reason why the left aligned with Dems was because Dems are more left than Repubs or at least, act more progressive. There are differences of opinions, as we saw when Bernie stans fought Warren stans and Biden stans, and vice versa.

 

[hokageji]

The problem with this is that pretty much every faction of the left has its own priorities. It's easy to say they should unite over more important issues but the fact is that each group has its own view over what the more important issues are. And when they rally behind a big one they usually give up on their own priorities. Case in point, the last election. removing trump became the overriding priority but plenty of left wing groups straight up gave up on their priority policy positions... Which is pretty much what mainstream democrats ask all the time without those important policy positions ever seeing any closer. Take the big one, medicare for all. It's not really any closer now than it was under trump.

true, but when it comes to accepting criticality from the right, they shouldn't be so quick to jump. Anyone on the left barring Weiner i think has done minor crimes / issues while the right gets away with worser offenses...

yep, but it depends. Centrist/liberals are different from the left, and the main reason why the left aligned with Dems was because Dems are more left than Repubs or at least, act more progressive. There are differences of opinions, as we saw when Bernie stans fought Warren stans and Biden stans, and vice versa.

Sure, I am aware but when you say left, you include liberals, moderates, progressives, everyone atleast in this nation. The point isnt having differences, the point is allowing rightto get away with your flaws, which is why i said if Bernie were to get cancelled, the left would be more to blame than the right.

 

[M3J]

If Bernie were to get cancelled for being or saying bad things, why would anyone want to blame the right or left?

 

[kkck]

true, but when it comes to accepting criticality from the right, they shouldn't be so quick to jump. Anyone on the left barring Weiner i think has done minor crimes / issues while the right gets away with worser offenses...



Sure, I am aware but when you say left, you include liberals, moderates, progressives, everyone atleast in this nation. The point isnt having differences, the point is allowing rightto get away with your flaws, which is why i said if Bernie were to get cancelled, the left would be more to blame than the right.

Wait, but weiner was caught sending sexual pics to a minor. The original scandal he was involved in was rather minor though. A case that actually continues to baffle me is the one with al franken. The guy takes a picture where it looks like he is groping someone (he was nowhere near touching someone) and then they start pursuing him from the left. It's in bad taste but this was entirely benign... In the US the left is definitely too quick to be at each other's throats. And the right wing definitely takes advantage of everyone being a crybaby that can't tell what things are worst than others.