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As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:
Shanks v Mihawk
Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
Zoro > Luffy
Zoro v Sanji
Is Smoker a top 30 character?
Mihawk's rank within the story
Law having CoC currently.
Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.
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Anyone kind of disappointed on how the battle has been going on, especially with the match ups?
Examples: 2 Yonko vs 5 SNs: this has made the yonko look weak Marco vs King and Queen: those two enemies wouldve been better handled by the Zolo and Sanji like it always has been by fighting the 2nd and 3rd strongest enemies. Add on to that, that makes Marco look pretty strong (always thought he was) but also makes those 2 enemies look weak Sanji vs Jack???: If they both were at full health I actually would not mind them fighting each other I think this would be a good match up and a step up from the Page 1 fight. Hyogo vs Hotei: That was lame, I was actually expecting something from the leader of the Mumiwhatever, he seemed pretty capable like almost Denjiro/Kyoshiro level, but he was one shotted by Hyogo (who may be 3rd YC level) but still. Wanted to see a good fight out of him. Yamato and Shinobu: theyre not fighting anyone but Im tired of seeing them, dont care what happens to them. Jimbei vs Whos Who: Cant say much but was hoping for Jimbei to go after a YC not a Flying 6.
Honestly, I was hoping another Enies Lobby type of fight/match ups. And its a mixture of MF and EL.
2 Yonkos vs 5 SN:
This is simply a no contest at this point of time. We see how 5 supernova did their best attacks and the Yonkos are barely affected. Kaido took hits and yet is standing tall. Its a clear imbalance and the only way SN will win is with a trump card, which is awaited.
Marco vs King and Queen:
This is interesting cos Marco is not only fighting them, he is also defending everyone else around. Surely he cant take both of them and Perospero might change this. I think Linlin getting hunger pangs might create a perfect opportunity for both this, and the above to be disrupted and swing the pendulum in favor of the samurais...
Sanji vs Jack:
I am convinced this is a great matchup. For anyone who thinks Jack was already defeated and is not a worthy opponent. Jack fought Neko and Inu for days and days and came out unscathed. He took a slash from Asura Doji and it didnt slow him down. He was assumed to be dead after Zunesha knocked him and still survived.
Moreover, we have seen from Impel Down how awakened beasts have extraordinary resilence and stamina. Jack has a DF ability of a thick skinned animal, an ancient zoan whcih is dangerous and seeing how Oda has shown an awakened paramecia, an awakened special paramecia (which is similar to a logia), its time we get an explanation on an awakened zoan. i think this match will be a great one to watch....
BM vs Nico Robin.
I for one am superexcited about this. Nico Robin can act like a giant, has her own spider like abilities and we haven't seen her use haki till this point. She can literally grow any parts of her body anywhere and if she can use haki, she'll be a dangerous opponent. This is a great matchup, strongest female mugiwara vs the strongest female beast pirate....
Franky vs Sazaki
The matchup concept is itself great. The tank of the strawhats against the armored team of the beast pirates. But the theory that Sazaki is related to Kokoro is what i am looking forward too.... too early to speculate on taht but even otherwise, this matchup will be fun.
All in all, all the strawhats will get their one on one moments. Nami and Usopp are more of a utility pair and it'll be great to see how they fair in this situation.
BM vs Nico Robin.
I for one am superexcited about this. Nico Robin can act like a giant, has her own spider like abilities and we haven't seen her use haki till this point. She can literally grow any parts of her body anywhere and if she can use haki, she'll be a dangerous opponent. This is a great matchup, strongest female mugiwara vs the strongest female beast pirate....
I’m sure King & Queen have more to show. But interesting enough, I think we should have a understanding of Marco’s lv & ability as WB’s 1st Mate. & Why Gorosei figured he could lead the remaining WBP to victory against BB.
What Marco is doing now I’ve been dying to see this type of offense from him. It’s at King’s expense but ODA is basically showing us Marco can even fight 2 commanders for a time, while holding his own.
*Interesting enough, I think this shows Yonkou commander position are not all equal between the crews.
I see there's a lot of Beast Pirates disrespect on the weekly threads and I get where it's coming from but I don't share the feeling.
All Stars
Queen and King aren't winning against Marco, but that's to be expected since they don't know a way to bypass his immortality and the guy regenerates anything faster than damn Wolverine, and as ancient zoans they're likely not getting hurt as badly as it would seem either (and King doesn't even seem to be hurt despite taking some direct hits, on top of the ancient zoan thing). Marco also made it sound last week like if Chopper didn't hurry he'd stop having the upper hand sooner or later. He probably has a limit of endurance. This means Marco isn't stronger than both of them together, he's just too tricky an opponent and strong enough to keep them occupied.
Queen's chemical weapons were countered by Chopper, but otherwise not even Marco's healing powers could stop that, only slower the effects, and the guy is a Pacifista-like cyborg.
Jack has some of the most impressive endurance and recovery feats in the series so far.
Tobi Roppos
The Tobi Roppo are six ex-captains around the same level as X-Drake, a supernova captain that was shown as around equal to Urouge pre-TS. Urouge defeated one of the 4 Sweet Commanders of Big Mom, her equivalent of the All Stars.
Numbers
They can be oneshotted by guys like Yamato, Luffy, Drake or Franky, but Franky used one of his strongest techniques for that purpose and had to run from the rest, meaning that without the firepower of that special technique, they aren't so heavily below Franky, who can't easily deal with more than one.
To put it in other terms, Franky vs the numbers is like having a soldier against tanks using a bazooka with a single rocket in it. He will easily take one out and then struggle against the rest. Of course Franky can possibly defeat a Number without that attack but as we saw it wouldn't have been so easy.
Gifters
Fodders, of course, but strong enough fodders to get some hits in Zoro and Sanji, and an army of gifters equaled an army of sulongs, meaning that while they're "fodders", they're actually monstrously strong above average fodders.
The rest of the crew is actual fodder, and I'm not takin into account underling crews like Doflamingo's, but I could.
Big Mom had to deal with half the straw hat's crew, a couple of minks, Capone (nobody in his crew is worth mentioning other than himself) and the Vinsmoke's (only five warriors worthy of mention), while Kaido is dealing with the full straw hat crew, the scabbards (with Izo), Yamato, Law, Kid, Law, X-Drake, some yakuzas (one of them old but legendary), thousands of samurai loyal to the Kozuki, every single mink (who went sulong against the gifters) and Marco, and even with all of that, Oda is pulling the Tama card to diminish the Beast Pirate's power.
Katakuri was a real beast and he could be stronger than King and Queen (we can't be sure of that until we see what these two, specially King, are truly capable of), but the rest of the Sweet Commanders are likely to be weaker than the All Stars, and I'd say even some of the Tobi Roppo could possibly defeat Cracker or Snack (not easily, but they possibly can as they shouldn't be too far powerwise). I won't take into account that Katakuri was defeated by Luffy back then because it was pretty clear that he was superior to Luffy and that he pretty much let him win.
So to summarize: the Beast Pirates seem weaker than Big Mom's, but that's mostly due to the differences between the two arcs. The two crews, powerwise, should be around equal, and the Beast Pirates should actually have the upper hand. Gifters are also disregarded because they look like a mass of fodders and not as unique as some of Big Mom's children, but most of her children are worse fodder than gifters.
Big Mom's crew is the strongest family, as they're an actual family. Some crews can be considered family without having blood ties, like Luffy's, Capone's or Doflamingo's (his upper echelons at least), but there's no possible way to see Kaido's crew as a family.
Edit: And I forgot to mention Apoo and Hawkins who are pretty much on the Tobi's level, and Yamato who technically is part of the Beast Pirates and has been so until this point before turning to Luffy's side like X Drake, so she should be counted when speaking of the crew's strength up to this point. Yamato has been surprisingly strong and we still haven't even seen her zoan transformation.
@Elessar
I think most would agree with you.
& I think most ppl just don’t like the Beast Pirates. Not because of strength it’s their one dimensional, mostly quirky theme, with wack personalities. They are boring, I doubt many fans are invested into them...For those that we are i.e King, just hasn’t been explored fully yet
Big Mom Pirates and other Yonkou crews are much much more interesting.
I see there's a lot of Beast Pirates disrespect on the weekly threads and I get where it's coming from but I don't share the feeling.
All Stars
Queen and King aren't winning against Marco, but that's to be expected since they don't know a way to bypass his immortality and the guy regenerates anything faster than damn Wolverine, and as ancient zoans they're likely not getting hurt as badly as it would seem either (and King doesn't even seem to be hurt despite taking some direct hits, on top of the ancient zoan thing). Marco also made it sound last week like if Chopper didn't hurry he'd stop having the upper hand sooner or later. He probably has a limit of endurance. This means Marco isn't stronger than both of them together, he's just too tricky an opponent and strong enough to keep them occupied.
Queen's chemical weapons were countered by Chopper, but otherwise not even Marco's healing powers could stop that, only slower the effects, and the guy is a Pacifista-like cyborg.
Jack has some of the most impressive endurance and recovery feats in the series so far.
Tobi Roppos
The Tobi Roppo are six ex-captains around the same level as X-Drake, a supernova captain that was shown as around equal to Urouge pre-TS. Urouge defeated one of the 4 Sweet Commanders of Big Mom, her equivalent of the All Stars.
Numbers
They can be oneshotted by guys like Yamato, Luffy, Drake or Franky, but Franky used one of his strongest techniques for that purpose and had to run from the rest, meaning that without the firepower of that special technique, they aren't so heavily below Franky, who can't easily deal with more than one.
To put it in other terms, Franky vs the numbers is like having a soldier against tanks using a bazooka with a single rocket in it. He will easily take one out and then struggle against the rest. Of course Franky can possibly defeat a Number without that attack but as we saw it wouldn't have been so easy.
Gifters
Fodders, of course, but strong enough fodders to get some hits in Zoro and Sanji, and an army of gifters equaled an army of sulongs, meaning that while they're "fodders", they're actually monstrously strong above average fodders.
The rest of the crew is actual fodder, and I'm not takin into account underling crews like Doflamingo's, but I could.
Big Mom had to deal with half the straw hat's crew, a couple of minks, Capone (nobody in his crew is worth mentioning other than himself) and the Vinsmoke's (only five warriors worthy of mention), while Kaido is dealing with the full straw hat crew, the scabbards (with Izo), Yamato, Law, Kid, Law, X-Drake, some yakuzas (one of them old but legendary), thousands of samurai loyal to the Kozuki, every single mink (who went sulong against the gifters) and Marco, and even with all of that, Oda is pulling the Tama card to diminish the Beast Pirate's power.
Katakuri was a real beast and he could be stronger than King and Queen (we can't be sure of that until we see what these two, specially King, are truly capable of), but the rest of the Sweet Commanders are likely to be weaker than the All Stars, and I'd say even some of the Tobi Roppo could possibly defeat Cracker or Snack (not easily, but they possibly can as they shouldn't be too far powerwise). I won't take into account that Katakuri was defeated by Luffy back then because it was pretty clear that he was superior to Luffy and that he pretty much let him win.
So to summarize: the Beast Pirates seem weaker than Big Mom's, but that's mostly due to the differences between the two arcs. The two crews, powerwise, should be around equal, and the Beast Pirates should actually have the upper hand. Gifters are also disregarded because they look like a mass of fodders and not as unique as some of Big Mom's children, but most of her children are worse fodder than gifters.
Big Mom's crew is the strongest family, as they're an actual family. Some crews can be considered family without having blood ties, like Luffy's, Capone's or Doflamingo's (his upper echelons at least), but there's no possible way to see Kaido's crew as a family.
Edit: And I forgot to mention Apoo and Hawkins who are pretty much on the Tobi's level, and Yamato who technically is part of the Beast Pirates and has been so until this point before turning to Luffy's side like X Drake, so she should be counted when speaking of the crew's strength up to this point. Yamato has been surprisingly strong and we still haven't even seen her zoan transformation.
I don't really have any issues with the calamities, as far as I can tell they pretty much live up to the hype.
The problem starts with the topo robi: Black Maria, Sasaki, Whose Whose, Ulti, page one and drake. These six ultimately make up the most significant executives in kaido's crew barring the calamities. And right of the bat drake abandons the crew. Add to that page one getting handled off screen (though not necessarily defeated) by sanji and then getting one shooted by luffy. Sure, page one recovered quickly from the luffy bit but that is still a pretty hard loss for him.
It's true that hawkins and apoo stand out among headliners and could actually fill in for a topo robi. But.... what about the rest of the headliners? Any big names in there? Headliners actually have a very important position in kaido's crew. all yonko crews are different but their analogues are more or less like this (though naturally crews won't necessarily 100% analogues between them):
Top 3 commanders: Marco-jozu-vista, katakuri-smoothie-cracker, king-queen-jack.
Not sure of who actually makes up shanks top 3 or BB's for that matter. It is also worth noting that other WB commanders could actually be insanely strong even by these tiers if we consider that WB's crew went toe to toe with roger's back in the day when marco and jozu were rookies...
Commanders-executives: Remaining WB commanders, topo robi, big mom's "monster" children... Assuming other yonko crews have top 3 fighters as well then we'd have 7 titanic captains and at least 6 redhair crewmates. It is also worth noting that big mom could potentiall have even more "monster" children than we saw.
After that executives you have.... well, fairly varied groups but I think these are more or less analogues:
Kaido has headliners following the topo robi. Their numbers are unknown but so far there are at least 16. Their numbers could be pretty much anything though though. Then you have the numbers. Most of them have been one shoted so far but on the other hand they do seem more dangerous than your average headliner.
After the "monster" children in big mom's crew there are... Welp, first of all the remainder of her children. Something like 75 of them left at least. Not all of them are combat relevant as a few are bound to be too weak or too young of course. Still, we saw them and they made up a reasonably formidable force with plenty of room for even some of them to be able to take over the role of monster children. And then you have big mom's fighters and rooks. Among these we saw bege, tamago, pekoms... Add to that whoever else has been married into the crew.
WB had his affiliated crews. 50 something showed up in marineford and they were all powerful pirate captains. Certainly not all of them are insane but they all seem to be relevant.
Then the next level:
Kaido has his 500 gifters, waiters and pleasures. Gifters make up for a rather formidable militia but otherwise don't seem particularly powerful. Waiters and pleasures are by all accounters ordinary militias. I suppose perhaps in this area you could also count crewmembers of crews that were forced to join kaido.
Then big mom has homies and soldiers making up her militia. They don't seem particularly remarkable but by all appearances there are a lot of them. Perhaps at least some crewmembers of those married into the crew make sense here.
WB had 100 crewmembers per division for militas and then at least the crewmembers of affiliated crews. Gotta wonder if perhaps it's unfair to throw in a few second mates in this tier rather than the above one...
Not really sure about the other yonko after this.
So... given all of this, I just don't see how kaido's crew could actually match at least big mom's or WB's. By all appearances kaido has less and weaker executives than the other yonko. As in, kaido has his topo robi, headliners and fuck it, throw the numbers in there... Against Big mom's monsters children, plus the remainder of her children, plus rooks, fighters and bishops who might be competitive at this tier given the bounties we know of a few of them.... And against WB's remaining commanders and then affiliated captains. These are the cores of yonko's crews however for kaido to actually be comparable to other yonko here he'd need at least 50 headliners... with names... who are in some manner established to be comparable to commanders, affiliated captains, big mom children, rooks, fighters... ect. Which seems like a pretty big stretch this late in an arc.
The only aspect where kaido seems to pull ahead of the other yonko is militia wise since he has 500 gifters.
When it comes down to it.... The real enemies among the beast pirates are the calamities, topo robi and headliners...
I don't really have any issues with the calamities, as far as I can tell they pretty much live up to the hype.
The problem starts with the topo robi: Black Maria, Sasaki, Whose Whose, Ulti, page one and drake. These six ultimately make up the most significant executives in kaido's crew barring the calamities. And right of the bat drake abandons the crew. Add to that page one getting handled off screen (though not necessarily defeated) by sanji and then getting one shooted by luffy. Sure, page one recovered quickly from the luffy bit but that is still a pretty hard loss for him.
It's true that hawkins and apoo stand out among headliners and could actually fill in for a topo robi. But.... what about the rest of the headliners? Any big names in there? Headliners actually have a very important position in kaido's crew. all yonko crews are different but their analogues are more or less like this (though naturally crews won't necessarily 100% analogues between them):
Top 3 commanders: Marco-jozu-vista, katakuri-smoothie-cracker, king-queen-jack.
Not sure of who actually makes up shanks top 3 or BB's for that matter. It is also worth noting that other WB commanders could actually be insanely strong even by these tiers if we consider that WB's crew went toe to toe with roger's back in the day when marco and jozu were rookies...
It was stated that Beckman, Lucky Roo and Yasopp are Shanks's "executives".
The Blackbeard Pirates don't have any hierachy among the Ten Titanic Captains. In terms of strength, Shiryu was probably stronger than all others since his introduction, and still is. If I had to guess, the other prisoners from Impel Down are stronger than the rest.
The Beast Pirates seem to be comparable to the Big Mom Pirates.
Below the commanders, you have Perosperos or Oven, who had trouble fighting against Ichiji or Sanji.
It was stated that Beckman, Lucky Roo and Yasopp are Shanks's "executives".
The Blackbeard Pirates don't have any hierachy among the Ten Titanic Captains. In terms of strength, Shiryu was probably stronger than all others since his introduction, and still is. If I had to guess, the other prisoners from Impel Down are stronger than the rest.
pretty sure that Black beards top two guys are shiryu and burgess. Burgess was called top or second captain in Admiral black beards pirate fleet during the dressrosa tournament i believe. when you compare that crew to the Straw hats it is a automatic that Zoro vs Shiryu is happening. i assume Sanji will fight Burgess but that isn't as sure of a thing as Burgess could also end up fighting Franky based off personality. if moria was forced to join BB then Brook is fighting him when the crews clash. hard to say with the rest other then Chopper likely fighting Doc Q.
The Beast Pirates seem to be comparable to the Big Mom Pirates.
Below the commanders, you have Perosperos or Oven, who had trouble fighting against Ichiji or Sanji.
It was stated that Beckman, Lucky Roo and Yasopp are Shanks's "executives".
The Blackbeard Pirates don't have any hierachy among the Ten Titanic Captains. In terms of strength, Shiryu was probably stronger than all others since his introduction, and still is. If I had to guess, the other prisoners from Impel Down are stronger than the rest.
How? The big mom pirates simply have way more executives than the beast pirates. Oven didn't have "trouble" with sanji, sanji simply suckerkicked him. Perospero took a few attacks iirc but he was never close to down. And he handed pedro his ass with ease IIRC (until pedro self destructed at least).
Weren't those the guys mentioned when the marines were talking about the yonko? I thought about them but I didn't think that bit was necessarily saying yassop and lucky ro take the number 2 and 3 positions. Seems likely but there is a bit of wiggle room there.
Well, sure, they might be equal in rank but that is different from BB not having a top 3. WB's top 3 was also informal in a way.
pretty sure that Black beards top two guys are shiryu and burgess. Burgess was called top or second captain in Admiral black beards pirate fleet during the dressrosa tournament i believe. when you compare that crew to the Straw hats it is a automatic that Zoro vs Shiryu is happening. i assume Sanji will fight Burgess but that isn't as sure of a thing as Burgess could also end up fighting Franky based off personality. if moria was forced to join BB then Brook is fighting him when the crews clash. hard to say with the rest other then Chopper likely fighting Doc Q.
Burgues doesn't seem nearly impressive enough for that. I could buy him as a executive of course but he seems a tad short for a top 3 YC. I am inclined to thinking the ID guys have more power than him in general. IIRC back at dressrosa they simply said which division burgues led, not his standing in the crew.
Nah, I doubt BB recruited moria... Moria is not likely to want such a thing if absalon was killed by them and he isn't strong enough to be THAT interesting. His fruit though is actually very powerful and bound to be of interest to BB. Specially if he can get it to a more suitable fighter. I'd like to see Doc with the fruit...
Weren't those the guys mentioned when the marines were talking about the yonko? I thought about them but I didn't think that bit was necessarily saying yassop and lucky ro take the number 2 and 3 positions. Seems likely but there is a bit of wiggle room there.
I wondered how strong the Beasts Pirates were, especially before X. Drake, Apoo, Hawkins, Sasaki, and Whos Who and the Smile DFs came into the crew.
But compared to the BMP the current BP seem to have less executives that can actually hold a fight. The Gifters and the Gifter Headliners have all been weak, except Babanuki who might put up a good fight. I thought Holdem was going to be strong since he held the same rank of Headliner like Hawkins but I was mistaken. Apoo and Hawkins are Flying 6 level. The Page 1 we first saw seems more powerful and ruthless than the one we're currently seeing, how disappointing. When CC mentioned the SMILE DF crew in Punk Hazard, I was hoping they would be strong AF but they all have been a joke, literally. It is quite disappointing how in a crew with only Zoans, you would expect to see a real regular Zoan DF. Oda couldve added some regular Zoans (there are hundreds of animals we've yet to see in OP as Zoans).
pretty sure that Black beards top two guys are shiryu and burgess. Burgess was called top or second captain in Admiral black beards pirate fleet during the dressrosa tournament i believe. when you compare that crew to the Straw hats it is a automatic that Zoro vs Shiryu is happening. i assume Sanji will fight Burgess but that isn't as sure of a thing as Burgess could also end up fighting Franky based off personality. if moria was forced to join BB then Brook is fighting him when the crews clash. hard to say with the rest other then Chopper likely fighting Doc Q.
How? The big mom pirates simply have way more executives than the beast pirates. Oven didn't have "trouble" with sanji, sanji simply suckerkicked him. Perospero took a few attacks iirc but he was never close to down. And he handed pedro his ass with ease IIRC (until pedro self destructed at least).
Weren't those the guys mentioned when the marines were talking about the yonko? I thought about them but I didn't think that bit was necessarily saying yassop and lucky ro take the number 2 and 3 positions. Seems likely but there is a bit of wiggle room there.
Well, sure, they might be equal in rank but that is different from BB not having a top 3. WB's top 3 was also informal in a way.
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Burgues doesn't seem nearly impressive enough for that. I could buy him as a executive of course but he seems a tad short for a top 3 YC. I am inclined to thinking the ID guys have more power than him in general. IIRC back at dressrosa they simply said which division burgues led, not his standing in the crew.
Nah, I doubt BB recruited moria... Moria is not likely to want such a thing if absalon was killed by them and he isn't strong enough to be THAT interesting. His fruit though is actually very powerful and bound to be of interest to BB. Specially if he can get it to a more suitable fighter. I'd like to see Doc with the fruit...
Black beard pretty much told moria join my crew. the alternative was die. so i am pretty sure he joined. He doesn't really have any loyalty to black beard. But he will have joined him for now. Moria will preserve himself by any means necessary.
I’m sure King & Queen have more to show. But interesting enough, I think we should have a understanding of Marco’s lv & ability as WB’s 1st Mate. & Why Gorosei figured he could lead the remaining WBP to victory against BB.
What Marco is doing now I’ve been dying to see this type of offense from him. It’s at King’s expense but ODA is basically showing us Marco can even fight 2 commanders for a time, while holding his own.
*Interesting enough, I think this shows Yonkou commander position are not all equal between the crews.
Marco's fruit is a cheat. King would have already dismembered him and the fight had been over rather quick. The downside of Marco is that he lacks destructive capacity compared to the actual Yonko and Admirals who can raze islands. King and Queen are also taking his attacks rather well.
I actually think Big Mom is the strongest and a tad above the rest. That makes a lot of sense. She was the first to rise to power, already conquering islands as a little kid, building up a multiple island nation. Her fruit allows her to create an almost unlimited amount of soldiers, of which some can be somewhat strong (Randolph, Noble Croc, King Baum). Even her weaker children qualify for General Zombies, and she has plenty of them.
WCI still lacks full databook coverage as the EX Vivre cards haven't gotten there yet. WCI has many recurring or unique designs, of which many were not included as children of Big Mom, but they might well be married to them or their children, or lower rank combattants like Pekoms.
It is also not yet clear wether there are just three "Chess Piece" combattants (Bishop Bobbin, Knight Tamago and Rook Bege), or if there are more. Bobbin was mismatched against Sanji but is probably stronger than Caribou, the elite of Paradise. Tamago is very strong and we never saw the "real Knight" fight. And Bege is a part of the Worst Generation and showcased good vs Yonko feats. If there are more of those then Big Mom is definitely the strongest Yonko.
Her fleet also seems to be the largest, but the tarte and paddle ships are probably bound to coastal waters.
However, Big Mom's advantage is also her weakness. Running an actual nation, rather than just protectorates/exploiting a shithole, Big Mom cannot move out in full force. She wouldn't be capable of pulling off something like Marineford without risking everything.
Kaido has a pretty limited amount of soldiers, but a very large elite in form of the Gifters, which suffer from facing the Strawhats at this stage a tad too often. Most of the time when they face someone else, they actually have pretty good feats.
Wano has even less databook coverage than WCI. We still don't know how many of the Gifters are Headliners. Having the number would greatly change our perception.
Ultimately, all of the Yonko crews work very differently, but this creates circumstances that lead to a stalemate between all of them, making them all equal.
However, if two of them with all of their forces would be teleported to a plain Dragon Ball style battlefield, I think the Big Mom Pirates would defeat all other Yonko with their sheer numbers.
Would actually be nice if we could get some sort of other databook coverage on the Yonko rather than just character and possibly skillset Vivre Cards. There are many questions.
It was stated that Beckman, Lucky Roo and Yasopp are Shanks's "executives".
There are also other recurring, but buffed up characters from chapter 1 who likely are strong fighters, too, and probably also hold some sort of rank. Rockstar should be at least a Supernova now, too.
Marco's fruit is a cheat. King would have already dismembered him and the fight had been over rather quick. The downside of Marco is that he lacks destructive capacity compared to the actual Yonko and Admirals who can raze islands. King and Queen are also taking his attacks rather well.
But to say its a cheat is like saying all the admirals and others are too because they have logia and anyone without haki is ripped off from actual fight because of it. that is the power marco has so he is what he is and it makes him able to handle more then most. That was why the marines had the prisim stone cuffs ready for him as they knew what he was capable of back in marineford. They couldn't stop him directly so they negated him. But to say king would have dismembered him is nothing but your own speculation with no fact to back it up. Marco is fighting more to keep them from going after luffy and the rest not necessarily to beat them. He is using stall tactics to keep them busy. could king beat marco. probably. But the same goes the other way. Marco can also beat him.
Marco's fruit is a cheat. King would have already dismembered him and the fight had been over rather quick. The downside of Marco is that he lacks destructive capacity compared to the actual Yonko and Admirals who can raze islands. King and Queen are also taking his attacks rather well.
I am not sure that marco lacks destructive capacity. If anything the past few chapters have shown that marco's fruit only gets better and better. His flames don't behave like conventional fire but we have seen they are insanely versatile. We saw how marco used his flames to actually attack and cause damage to king, by all appearances the flames the capacity some manner of concussive damage. So marco's phoenix fruit has:
1.- Insane regeneration capacity.
2.- Flames that don't burn but appear to still have important offensive uses. We haven't seen much area of effect yet but that it could seemingly overpower king and cause damage speaks volumes of this IMO.
3.- All the physical benefits of being a zoan. Marco makes particularly good use of his claws. Strangely marco doesn't show yet a hybrid form like pell had though. Rather he freely transforms bodyparts into that of a phoenix at his convenience. I thought this might be a trait specific to mythical zoans but even kaido has a proper hybrid form...
Anyways, by all appearances marco's fruit is insane on all fronts. There is a case to be made that there are fruits that are superior offensively but even then it's not like the fruit is lacking on that front. If anything the fruit appears endlessly versatile.
But to say its a cheat is like saying all the admirals and others are too because they have logia and anyone without haki is ripped off from actual fight because of it. that is the power marco has so he is what he is and it makes him able to handle more then most. That was why the marines had the prisim stone cuffs ready for him as they knew what he was capable of back in marineford. They couldn't stop him directly so they negated him. But to say king would have dismembered him is nothing but your own speculation with no fact to back it up. Marco is fighting more to keep them from going after luffy and the rest not necessarily to beat them. He is using stall tactics to keep them busy. could king beat marco. probably. But the same goes the other way. Marco can also beat him.
I am not sure that marco lacks destructive capacity. If anything the past few chapters have shown that marco's fruit only gets better and better. His flames don't behave like conventional fire but we have seen they are insanely versatile. We saw how marco used his flames to actually attack and cause damage to king, by all appearances the flames the capacity some manner of concussive damage. So marco's phoenix fruit has:
Look at the destructive capacity of the Admirals and Yonko. Marco cannot even get close to that. Whitebeard and Blackbeard can tilt or break islands and create gigantic Tsunami's, Kuzan and Sakazuki transformed an island, Kaido erased Oden castle and lifted Onigashima, etc, etc.
His feats aren't anywhere there and I think Doflamingo and Katakuri are also beyond him in this aspect, as they are awakened Paramecia users that transform and alter their surroundings. Mihawk is anyways.
He really got better offense feats than Marineford, but nothing changed in general.
But to say its a cheat is like saying all the admirals and others are too because they have logia and anyone without haki is ripped off from actual fight because of it. that is the power marco has so he is what he is and it makes him able to handle more then most. That was why the marines had the prisim stone cuffs ready for him as they knew what he was capable of back in marineford. They couldn't stop him directly so they negated him. But to say king would have dismembered him is nothing but your own speculation with no fact to back it up. Marco is fighting more to keep them from going after luffy and the rest not necessarily to beat them. He is using stall tactics to keep them busy. could king beat marco. probably. But the same goes the other way. Marco can also beat him.
I used to call Vergo trash, exaggerated compared to what I actually thought of him but after seeing combatants in all these arcs following PH, Vergo isnt looking that bad. I would probably rate him above most of the veterans in Yonko crews, close to YC tier.
The Charlotte commanders were good at avoiding getting hit, Beast Pirates commanders are good at tanking damage...
Vergo's CoA was probably better than all of theirs, bar Katakuri but even that is questionable as we don't have Luffy vs Vergo comparison.
I would still rate him below all the characters in the YC tier due to this or that match-up disadvantage.
I dont think he can beat any proper swordsman of the YC tier or above due to inferior combat style.
I also think Smoker was among top veterans and close to the YC tier as well and Vergo slightly edged him out due to superior haki.
Looking back, Vergo is decent but Pica is the most valuable military asset, more valuable than all YCs together.
