Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2021] - Discussion and ToC Talk

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Chuck_Atlas

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Props to Elusive, and to Matsui. Really seems he might be going for a third hit in Jump, tho waiting for its first volumes to be released to see how they perform will properly say that
 

Mankichi Togawa

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Very confident on this prediction of mine for issue 18:

Cover: Jujutsu Kaisen
Color pages: Dr.Stone, Sakamoto Days

And Witch Watch getting issue 19 color pages.

Also, issue 18-19 is the only chance Build King has to get some color pages. If it doesn't get them and if volume 1 doesn't sell, consider the series dead.
 

redon

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Is Deku the only character in the Jump cover? Feels a little odd tbh

Any special MHA stuff in the issue besides the cover? Some stuff related with the movie or with the artbook?
Yeah, only Deku. It's simple but cover looks really nice :)

The cover only has information about new MHA Anime seasson.
 

Mankichi Togawa

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Yeah, only Deku. It's simple but cover looks really nice :)

The cover only has information about new MHA Anime seasson.
Oh well, I guess the lead color pages will be "that". Hyped for Yozakura Family color pages too.

---

We are back to the usual "1 manga gets cover-lcp, 2 manga get cp" schedule. This issue felt so strange because not counting MHA, only Yozakura was getting the CPs (not counting the oneshot).

If Build King ends getting color pages in next issues, I really hope Phantom Seer gets its cp for volume 3 in early-May.
 

KiMiTo

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Wow, what a high places for TES and HSF.
A little suprised that JJK didn't get the cover for #17, but #19 cover must be for it, since #18 is 99% for MHA.

I finished reading the chapters from #15, so here is my rank:

Great:
Jujutsu Kaisen
- what a fight...
Kowloon's Ball Parade - a great chapter showing us the skills of the future clean-up.
Dr. Stone - just awesome.
Sakamoto Days - Things thighten up.

Good:
One Piece
- Choppertime! That cliffhanger though.
My Hero Academia - predicable development, but smol Deku is so cute.
Build King - art is dope, Toriko vibe here.

Average:
Witch Watch
- nice slice of life comedy chapter.

Meh:
The Elusive Samurai
I tell C
 
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yadayada

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Wow, what a high places for TES and HSF.
A little suprised that JJK didn't get the cover for #17, but #19 cover must be for it, since #18 is 99% for MHA.

I finished reading the chapters from #15, so here is my rank:

Great:
Jujutsu Kaisen
- what a fight...
Kowloon's Ball Parade - a great chapter showing us the skills of the future clean-up.
Dr. Stone - just awesome.
Sakamoto Days - Things thighten up.

Good:
One Piece
- Choppertime! That cliffhanger though.
My Hero Academia - predicable development, but smol Deku is so cute.
Build King - art is dope, Toriko vibe here.

Average:
Witch Watch
- nice slice of life comedy chapter.

Meh:
The Elusive Samurai
I tell C
What? MHA just had #16.
 

NeeNeen

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Dr Stone: Now I’m even more convinced they are going to turn some things back. But still, HOLY SHIT. Even with how badly prepared they were, this is way more grave than anything I was expecting (and the first time Senku dropped the ball like this). I liked the development geo-girl got, they managed to add a layer of complexity to her character that wasn’t really seen before.

Ball Parade: Kinda underhanded, but if they can convince him that way I’m all for it. I like the guy. I’m one of those people who is more interested in the characters than in the sport though, so I wouldn’t mind them going back to talking next time. (Also, girl, you want to become a manager. Learn the fucking rules.)

Mashle: This didn’t really do much for me. The thing was already falling apart last time, dragging it out didn’t make it better. Making a tennis racket out of cold metal was unrealistic even to this series’ standards, that hit looked like it should’ve killed him, and the modesty doesn’t feel very sincere (even if it is) when you just wow’ed the entire audience with your sick battle skills. This kind of stuff wouldn’t normally bother me in a better chapter, but all of it together got a bit much.

Build King: Well… things are speeding up, finally. They even retroactively gave the previous two exam rounds some importance, which is good storytelling. Unfortunately we are still dealing with hordes of underdeveloped characters, exposition dumps and a general lack of direction (not to mention NO BUILDING). Renga especially annoyed me this chapter; first he literally throws himself into harm’s way, then he just sits there in his bubble looking scared and whimpering for his brother. Why aren’t you trying to break out yourself? You’re a master carpenter, you must have something sharp on you (in fact, I can see the giant knife on your back from here). Don’t try and play the hero if you’re going to turn into a damsel in distress at the first trouble.

ES: This one left me with mixed feelings. On the one hand, it’s probably as good as a chapter from this series is going to get. It has action, something resembling a plot, a bit of character development, jokes and tension. On the other hand, I’m still not invested in any of the characters, there isn’t much of a larger story, the ‘scary’ drawings are ugly, the humour fails to make me laugh and I hate how they keep kissing up to the boy for basically no reason. In other words, even a good chapter leaves me pretty cold… which probably means the series is just never going to work for me.

WW: Sweety, he HAS to be so calm about crazy stuff or else he wouldn’t survive you. Another rather cute chapter, though utterly inconsequential.

Magu: Uneras is the best character in this series, no contest.

Sakamoto: See, this is how you make people care about exposition. It looks like the search will take a while, but I don’t mind. Their laid-back attitude in the latter half made me laugh.

BC: In case anyone was wondering: Gallus is the Latin name for chicken or fowl, Equus for horse, Nacht is German/Dutch for night and Morgen means morning (or tomorrow, but morning makes more sense in context). I kinda saw the twist coming, but the reveal still took me by surprise. This flashback should be interesting.

AT: Great costume design. I had pegged her as a Russian Santa Clara right from the start. (And despite her extremely covering clothing, they managed to work in a panty shot of her anyway. Points for effort, I guess.) The rest of the chapter was, er… open-minded about female sexuality? I’m not a fan of ecchi, but it is nice to see a girl who shows an active interest without being portrayed as a slut.

OP: Very predictable first half, but it works. Then we go jumping again (with some foreshadowing) to end in a twist that, quite honestly, cheapens the dramatic backstory quite a bit (and makes me feel sorry for the daughter who was apparently the only one who got left out of the fun).

MHA: Nice! People talk about how compassionate Tanjiro is all the time, but I felt it stronger in this moment than I ever did in Demon Slayer. Too bad he reverted back to being a cloud.

I tell c: This went off the rails real quick (also, are you sure you guys are cops? You’re making one professional mistake after the other). I enjoyed seeing saviour complex guy get called out for his bullshit. And I gotta say, crazy as it is, this series is a lot more entertaining now.

PS: A bit slow, though the backstory was good. Sister really likes to order the boy around, doesn’t she? I mean, she could’ve just called the people still waiting outside.

C&D: I’m getting Dragon Ball vibes here. Every new person is stronger than the last. It’s great to see guru guy lose his composure for half a second. I was disappointed with the city though, the design makes no sense underwater but I guess it was too hard to think of anything new.

Yozakura: Can’t they just not go into the water? Or take off the headphones? Or destroy the power supply? Either way, if you can look past the logic fails, great chapter! We get a clear goal and battle plan, two characters we haven’t seen much yet fighting and even some sibling love. I liked it a lot.

UU: I thought the beginning of the chapter was wild. Then it got worse. But is it me or does it feel like we’re nearing endgame territory already? Not that I’m expecting the series to end soon, but I wouldn’t have minded seeing a few more missions before going after God.


TES: Ok, the part about worrying about the animal abuse was actually funny considering plagiarism was the deathblow to forgot its name and i tell c is trying hard to make Aioi's love for criminals not something criminal. How does a Japanese Official know what eye conducts are though? And how can you talk through them?
Not eye conducts, eyeball conduction. Like bone conduction, but through the eyeball. (I have no idea if this is actually possible, or if the ancient Japanese would know about it. I don't think the writer knows either.)

Bone conduction - Wikipedia
 
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galaxy-juice

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Elusive samurai is the manga of a veteran author, in this case the author of Assclass, which was a success in his day so it is correct for editors to want to promote the manga.
Now it remains to see what the sales will be like to see if it is really doing well. Or it is not a lie.
Yeah, but so was Ayakashi Triangle, Cop & Dolphin, High School Family, and Build King, and none of them were promoted in the TOC like this, so that isn't really an argument that holds a lot of water.
 

Stivie

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Yeah, but so was Ayakashi Triangle, Cop & Dolphin, High School Family, and Build King, and none of them were promoted in the TOC like this, so that isn't really an argument that holds a lot of water.
Samurai 8 already had a good promotion at the time of its publication.
But in volume sales, it was a complete disappointment.
 

galaxy-juice

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Samurai 8 already had a good promotion at the time of its publication.
But in volume sales, it was a complete disappointment.
Samurai 8 had good promotion in terms of marketing and color pages, but its first four ranked TOC placements were 5, 11, 8, and 11, so that doesn't really support your argument either.

Of course, Elusive Samurai can still drop off in the following weeks, but to say that its current placement is due to AssClass is completely unfounded.
 

samama10

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Do you guys think MASHLE has already hit 1M in sales? Every volume of it has surpassed 100k+ and Volume 5 is soon to surpass it. And we don't know the digital sales but it must be close right??
 

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Do you guys think MASHLE has already hit 1M in sales? Every volume of it has surpassed 100k+ and Volume 5 is soon to surpass it. And we don't know the digital sales but it must be close right??
probably like 800k if I were to guess and volume 6 will announce 1 mil circulation
 

Stivie

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Samurai 8 had good promotion in terms of marketing and color pages, but its first four ranked TOC placements were 5, 11, 8, and 11, so that doesn't really support your argument either.

Of course, Elusive Samurai can still drop off in the following weeks, but to say that its current placement is due to AssClass is completely unfounded.
I didn't say it was unfounded, but it might not reflect his real acceptance.
And today, we are seeing a lot of cases where Toc is not entirely correct.
The only way is to see how sales will be from the 2nd volume.
 

galaxy-juice

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I didn't say it was unfounded, but it might not reflect his real acceptance.
And today, we are seeing a lot of cases where Toc is not entirely correct.
The only way is to see how sales will be from the 2nd volume.
The only case I can think of is that Phantom Seer sells well but is not voted for in the TOC polls.

If there are others I missed then be sure to let me know, but this hardly seems like a situation in which "we are seeing a lot of cases where TOC is not entirely correct". When it comes to popularity inside the magazine, I'm not sure there are actually many instances of the TOC being obviously inaccurate. There just isn't much reason to think that The Elusive Samurai is getting a special push that we haven't seen from any of the other returning veterans.

But you're right that early TOC placement does not correlate to volume sales or to long-term success, only to early reception.
 

Stivie

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The only case I can think of is that Phantom Seer sells well but is not voted for in the TOC polls.

If there are others I missed then be sure to let me know, but this hardly seems like a situation in which "we are seeing a lot of cases where TOC is not entirely correct". When it comes to popularity inside the magazine, I'm not sure there are actually many instances of the TOC being obviously inaccurate. There just isn't much reason to think that The Elusive Samurai is getting a special push that we haven't seen from any of the other returning veterans.

But you're right that early TOC placement does not correlate to volume sales or to long-term success, only to early reception.
Yozakura was like that too. Editors gave good positions for mitama even with poor sales, while yozakura suffered at the bottom.

And today the same thing is happening, first with the CP of magu chan and now with HSF, both sold poorly and are well positioned in Toc without deserving it.

Meanwhile, PS is at the botton even with good sales, that's why Toc is no longer so reliable.
 

savethecat

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Yozakura was like that too. Editors gave good positions for mitama even with poor sales, while yozakura suffered at the bottom.

And today the same thing is happening, first with the CP of magu chan and now with HSF, both sold poorly and are well positioned in Toc without deserving it.

Meanwhile, PS is at the botton even with good sales, that's why Toc is no longer so reliable.
Obviously Mitama didn’t ultimately meet their expectations. However, Mitama is a gag manga, and likely had ppl who enjoyed reading it within the magazine, while not having any intention of actually buying volumes
 

SharkBait

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Yozakura was like that too. Editors gave good positions for mitama even with poor sales, while yozakura suffered at the bottom.
i don't know how yozakura is suffering or has suffered, its getting so much color page and other love now, it clearly built a strong, dedicated, and receptive following that is rewarding it well now.
 

Mankichi Togawa

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Going to ask just to see if I'm right. Is the lead color page of the My Hero Academia chapter a:
spread with the 9 OfA users
?

Also:

ALSO:
2021 Oricon numbers so far:
-Kimetsu no Yaiba: 23.887.098 copies
-Jujutsu Kaisen: 17.775.474 copies

JJK has reduced the gap from 11 to 6 million copies in less than two months.

In third place is Shingeki, but in 4th place is Chainswman with 3.409.712 copies. CSM doing really well without anime.
 

SharkBait

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Chainswman with 3.409.712 copies. CSM doing really well without anime.
i think word of mouth on twitter helps, and also i wonder if its short length makes it easier for people to buy versus a 20+ volume long runner
 

galaxy-juice

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Yozakura was like that too. Editors gave good positions for mitama even with poor sales, while yozakura suffered at the bottom.

And today the same thing is happening, first with the CP of magu chan and now with HSF, both sold poorly and are well positioned in Toc without deserving it.

Meanwhile, PS is at the botton even with good sales, that's why Toc is no longer so reliable.
I don't think you know how the TOC placements are decided. At the end of every issue of Jump, people are allowed to vote for their favorite series of that week, and those results are then used as a reference for creating the TOC.

If it was based on sales alone, then the TOC would be the exact same every week, but that obviously isn't the case. It's more based on popularity among those who read the magazine, regardless of whether or not they plan to buy the volumes. Phantom Seer most likely is popular among people who don't read Jump or who simply don't vote for it, which is why it does not place highly in the TOC.

We have instances of series placing worse than you might expect, but very, very few of a series placing higher than it deserves. Gag manga generally sell worse than battle shounen, but it isn't hard to believe Magu-chan is more popular among people voting week-to-week than, say Cop & Dolphin, (or that HSF's chapter from 8 weeks ago happened to be very well received). There is a very stark difference between Mitama ranking above Yozakura, and Elusive Samurai ranking above both Dr Stone and Black Clover.

So because Elusive Samurai came second in the TOC, we can assume with pretty high confidence that was received very (if not extremely) well. This does not mean that it will sell as well as AssClass, of course, but to say that we can't trust the TOC in a situation like this is kind of ridiculous. There isn't a reason for Jump to lie about Elusive Samurai in the TOC when they didn't for any other veteran authors (including Kishimoto, and he had a massive campaign leading up to Samurai 8).

But there's no reason to discuss this any further until we see future TOCs, since Elusive Samurai could obviously drop hard in the following weeks and this whole discussion would be pointless.
 
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