Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2021] - Discussion and ToC Talk

[Minsel]

Almost as if Yoza fans came here and whined week after week about low placements, lack of promotion etc for the first year of serialization. Fans do it all the time here.

But is that your excuse for your profoundly bad arguments? Because those two aren't related at all.

Cause at this point we're starting to assume narratives, and I realized its pointless. Here isn't the only place it happens twitter threads are the main reason of my frustration and I see the same thing to a smaller scale happening here. The yoza low toc talk weren't nearly as bad as the ps talk doing this repetitive argument every week

 

[101nemesis]

Cause at this point we're starting to assume narratives, and I realized its pointless. Here isn't the only place it happens twitter threads are the main reason of my frustration and I see the same thing to a smaller scale happening here. The yoza low toc talk weren't nearly as bad as the ps talk doing this repetitive argument every week

Yes. Twitter threads. The social media platform populated by the most logical, well behaved and reasonable user base. Lol.

Your bias for Yoza is blinding you from the fact that Yoza fans whined every week. It was just drowned out because there were far bigger things happening in WSJ at that time.
But it was just as repetitive. Trying to state otherwise is, again, you being biased towards Yoza.

 

[savethecat]

Yes. Twitter threads. The social media platform populated by the most logical, well behaved and reasonable user base. Lol.

Your bias for Yoza is blinding you from the fact that Yoza fans whined every week. It was just drowned out because there were far bigger things happening in WSJ at that time.
But it was just as repetitive. Trying to state otherwise is, again, you being biased towards Yoza.

Yozakura complaints were significantly smaller, and not as vocal. Most ppl wondered why Yozakura hadn’t gotten canned yet rather than begged for higher placements and color pages.

Yozakura’s sales weren’t THAT good, and still aren’t anything to scoff at. It just a moderate success at best. Aside from a very vocal minority, not many ppl hoped on board the Yozakura train until it started getting consistent color pages and high TOC placements.

In fact, Yozakura climbing from the depths of the TOC and possible cancellation is likely what are causing PS fans to be more vocal and loud than previous recent hyped “axed” series(not saying PS will be axed. But just comparing it to other Battle Shonen that had similar fanbases)

 

[101nemesis]

Yozakura complaints were significantly smaller, and not as vocal. Most ppl wondered why Yozakura hadn’t gotten canned yet rather than begged for higher placements and color pages.

Yozakura’s sales weren’t THAT good, and still aren’t anything to scoff at. It just a moderate success at best. Aside from a very vocal minority, not many ppl hoped on board the Yozakura train until it started getting consistent color pages and high TOC placements.

In fact, Yozakura climbing from the depths of the TOC and possible cancellation is likely what are causing PS fans to be more vocal and loud than previous recent hyped “axed” series(not saying PS will be axed. But just comparing it to other Battle Shonen that had similar fanbases)

Eh. I don't care enough to go back and prove how insecure Yoza fans were and how whiny they were back then.

I literally just wanted to point how there is 0% logic in what Minsel said. I'm done with this discussion.

 

[Minsel]

Eh. I don't care enough to go back and prove how insecure Yoza fans were and how whiny they were back then.

I literally just wanted to point how there is 0% logical in what Minsel used. I'm done with this discussion.

can u please be done for the next few weeks too, if you have the same discussion and arguments next week then we'll just be going in a loop

 

[101nemesis]

can u please be done for the next few weeks too, if you have the same discussion and arguments next week then we'll just be going in a loop

As long as people don't post illogical arguments like you did before, I'm good. I didn't respond during the vast majority of the discussion. My sole response was to you and your hilarious comparison between S8 and PS circumstances.

Nothing is more cringe than people trying to sound logical by posting half baked facts twisted to fit their narrative.

 

[Blink22]

I know you want Phantom Seer to succeed, but if you want to talk about "sales are important to keep a manga alive," then you have to remember that Phantom Seer vol 2 did not show any growth compared to vol 1. It may not have received any promotion, but you act like that makes it immune to the criticism you give all the other stagnating series.

I know you mean well man, but what are you on about? This is a flat out lie even with shaky Shoseki estimations.

Phantom Seer #1 (8.675) - 3 Days
Phantom Seer #2 (16.558) - 4 Days

Week 1 of Volume 2 basically doubled the sales of the first volume during its respective Week 1 with just one more day. We can even going further.

Initial Shoseki estimations had Phantom Seer Volume 1 being sold around 14k during the first two weeks in December. Then it would disappear from the weekly rankings for the rest of the month, and only occasionally showed up in the daily rankings after the reprints on 12/22. In week 3 it sold less than 2.5k and week fourth less than 3.5k (didn't rank in the weekly estimations in these two weeks). Afterwards, December monthly sales would report Volume 1 having sold around 22k which was hilariously inflated. Somehow the sales ended up being 8k more in the monthly estimates when it all but completely disappeared from the charts for majority of weeks 3 and 4.

Now Shoseki estimations have Phantom Seer Volume 2 at around 16k for week 1 (higher than first two weeks of Volume 1), around 5.6k for week 2, and around 2.5k for week 3, that's higher than the monthly number of 22k that was reported for February. Even if we go with Oricon for week 1 (13.8k), that would still put it at 22k around week 3. Which means, it would still place it well above any Volume 1 sales from December.

Volume 1 was reprinted three times and volume 2 was reprinted once with all of them sent directly to bookstores. Not to mention, Shoseki doesn't track online retailers. Volume 2 was sold out on the Animate online store and Amazon around a week before release, was briefly restocked, then sold out on both platforms again before the reprint was announced in the magazine. Which would make sense with both volumes accumulating 100k copies in print which was just announced last week.

Please don't throw out assumptions and try to pass it off as fact.

 

[tirakai]

I've said this before but Shoseki estimates are very unreliable when there's a big gap between sales of 100, 200, 300, etc, especially if you're adding multiple weeks together. They are very, very basic assumptions that sales correlate directly the chart positions.

If the series at #100 sold 30k, and the series at #200 sold 10k, Shoseki estimates would put #150 at 20k (assuming halfway up the chart means halfway in sales too), but in reality it'd be a lot closer to 10k, probably 15-16k at best. Add up multiple weeks that are all several 1000 off (or weeks where it doesn't chart but could still be selling 2-3k) and it makes for a terrible source for sales numbers.

The monthly chart is a lot more reliable than adding up weekly estimates (in regards to what Shoseki tracks), because we have a much more specific range of error than the range you get from adding up each week.

 

[SharkBait]

Being sold out on websites/stores is probably the best indicator of selling well or not, and also, provides the evidence against those saying the series is overprinted.

 

[galaxy-juice]

When does Sakamoto Days vol 1 go on sale?

I know you mean well man, but what are you on about? This is a flat out lie even with shaky Shoseki estimations.

Phantom Seer #1 (8.675) - 3 Days
Phantom Seer #2 (16.558) - 4 Days

Week 1 of Volume 2 basically doubled the sales of the first volume during its respective Week 1 with just one more day. We can even going further.

Initial Shoseki estimations had Phantom Seer Volume 1 being sold around 14k during the first two weeks in December. Then it would disappear from the weekly rankings for the rest of the month, and only occasionally showed up in the daily rankings after the reprints on 12/22. In week 3 it sold less than 2.5k and week fourth less than 3.5k (didn't rank in the weekly estimations in these two weeks). Afterwards, December monthly sales would report Volume 1 having sold around 22k which was hilariously inflated. Somehow the sales ended up being 8k more in the monthly estimates when it all but completely disappeared from the charts for majority of weeks 3 and 4.

Now Shoseki estimations have Phantom Seer Volume 2 at around 16k for week 1 (higher than first two weeks of Volume 1), around 5.6k for week 2, and around 2.5k for week 3, that's higher than the monthly number of 22k that was reported for February. Even if we go with Oricon for week 1 (13.8k), that would still put it at 22k around week 3. Which means, it would still place it well above any Volume 1 sales from December.

Volume 1 was reprinted three times and volume 2 was reprinted once with all of them sent directly to bookstores. Not to mention, Shoseki doesn't track online retailers. Volume 2 was sold out on the Animate online store and Amazon around a week before release, was briefly restocked, then sold out on both platforms again before the reprint was announced in the magazine. Which would make sense with both volumes accumulating 100k copies in print which was just announced last week.

Please don't throw out assumptions and try to pass it off as fact.

I was going off the monthly estimations, which were, like you said,

Honomieru Shounen #01 (December): 22,524
Honomieru Shounen #02 (February): 21,781

I was under the impression that we generally trust these monthly estimations more than the weekly ones. But since you're saying that there's a chance that these particular monthly estimates are not accurate, I'll just retract my statement until I have more information. I would love to learn that Phantom Seer is doing better than I thought.

 

[savethecat]

Eh. I don't care enough to go back and prove how insecure Yoza fans were and how whiny they were back then.

I literally just wanted to point how there is 0% logic in what Minsel said. I'm done with this discussion.

I don’t deny that Yozakura fans got upset and argued about it.

but the conversation surrounding Yozakura mostly revolved around the series, quality, and whether or not it would be axed.

i don’t recall borderline conspiracy theories every week about how Nak is purposely sabotaging the series and how it’s being unfairly treated; or outrage from people demanding for higher TOC placements and color pages. Especially not at the scale where it was all over Twitter threads as well.

The Yozakura arguments where mostly just “Yozakura is actually good. Stop calling it bad. It’ll start doing better, you’ll see ”

 

[Stivie]

When does Sakamoto Days vol 1 go on sale?


I was going off the monthly estimations, which were, like you said,

Honomieru Shounen #01 (December): 22,524
Honomieru Shounen #02 (February): 21,781

I was under the impression that we generally trust these monthly estimations more than the weekly ones. But since you're saying that there's a chance that these particular monthly estimates are not accurate, I'll just retract my statement until I have more information. I would love to learn that Phantom Seer is doing better than I thought.

Ayakashi triangle has had no sales increase and neither has good positions like magu chan or Yozakura. However, it reached 200K sales and anime rumors well before Yozakura, undead unluck and mashle.

Phantom seer, who is a novice author, got half the value of ayakashi triangle and with only 2 volumes, something that yozakura did not get with only 2 volumes. And yet you guys make a tremendous effort to want to shorten the manga and put it on a flop.

And just to complement.

Honomieru Shounen # 01 (December): 22,524
# 1 (27 days) 22,524

Honomieru Shounen # 02 (February): 21,781
# 2 (24 days) 21,781

it was not this failure that you are trying to deliver, if you had won the same promotion that magu chan wins, sales would have increased.

 

[SunPillar]

When does Sakamoto Days vol 1 go on sale?

April 2nd.

 

[savethecat]

Ayakashi triangle has had no sales increase and neither has good positions like magu chan or Yozakura. However, it reached 200K sales and anime rumors well before Yozakura, undead unluck and mashle.

Phantom seer, who is a novice author, got half the value of ayakashi triangle and with only 2 volumes, something that yozakura did not get with only 2 volumes. And yet you guys make a tremendous effort to want to shorten the manga and put it on a flop.

And just to complement.

Honomieru Shounen # 01 (December): 22,524
# 1 (27 days) 22,524

Honomieru Shounen # 02 (February): 21,781
# 2 (24 days) 21,781

it was not this failure that you are trying to deliver, if you had won the same promotion that magu chan wins, sales would have increased.

Nobody argues that it’s flopping.

It’s doing moderately okay sales wise.
Yozakura isnt doing insanely well either. They’re both doing moderate.
In different eras of Jump, it wouldn’t be very shocking if either of them got axed.

Also, if Ayakashi Triangle anime rumors are true, it’s more than likely because it’s a series from an incredibly established manga artist, with multiple successes under his belt, and an fanbase. I wouldn’t be shocked if the series was already in talks for an anime after the first few chapters launched, and would have had these rumors regardless of sales; unless it flopped harder than S8.

And again, different series fills different quotas, and have different expectations.

AT is currently filling the echi/harem role in the magazine. Comparing its success, and amount of attention to a Battle series doesn’t really say much.
1. Harem series in Jump typically aren’t they’re heavy hitters, so it’s probably not expected to sell insane numbers to begin with.
2. Even if it was selling around the same as PS, or even less than PS, it would have still probably been more likely to receive more color pages, and attention due to it being the only Harem in the magazine, and it doing moderately well. It’s fulfilling a role none of the other series in the magazine are filling(also, again, it’s from Yabuki). Where as Phantom Seer aren’t has alternatives in the magazine, the most notable one being JJK

 

[4Eyes]

YozaFam and PS situations are one and the same, except the magazine is fuller now so PS has more 'adversaries'.
One can't call PS a flop using YozaFam as a parameter since by vol 2 it was flopping too.

 

[Stivie]

YozaFam and PS situations are one and the same, except the magazine is fuller now so PS has more 'adversaries'.
One can't call PS a flop using YozaFam as a parameter since by vol 2 it was flopping too.

That's why we use parameter sales. After all, Phantom seer is second only to Ayakashi and mashle among newbies.

In addition, we cannot forget that 2020 had the completion of kimetsu, haikyuu, TPN, Yuuna, WnL, Chainsaw man and Act age.

These manga left a huge hole in the magazine, and that hole won't close if is jump doesn't give priority to manga that has good sales.

 

[tirakai]

Yozakura I remember starting rising about around ch 23 or 24 though and got a colour page on ch 28, so it's not quite the same as Phantom Seer's ToC performance so far which is still stuck at the bottom.

 

[Rukasu]

Oh god I wish something totally crazy happened so we could stop talking about the exact same thing...... our blood oath anime by ufotable please come save us

 

[Newkerzy]

our blood oath anime by ufotable please come save us

Welp, that's crazy enough .

You should've been here a couple of days ago. I was bringing up the fact that someone had the gall to propose adapting MHA's war arc into a movie.

 

[tirakai]

What was the last probably axed jump manga to get a manga after the fact? Any live actions dramas possibly?

There's a few earlier ones around but I don't remember any from the 10s.