Voting Round 1 Midora vs. Broly (DBS)

[LadyVados]

I don't want to have the whole conversation again so I'll only say this: Broly has never destroyed a single planet, saying he can destroy universes is beyond fanboyism.

Yes... saying DBS Broly is above Frieza Saga frieza is beyond fanboyism...

Moegara... this ain’t it...

 

[Nie Li]

I'll add something since I haven't said it before: if we scale by comparisons and what the characters say, then "Midora beat up a guy who ate an universe, hence he can destroy universes".

Silly logic is silly.

 

[LadyVados]

I'll add something since I haven't said it before: if we scale by comparisons and what the characters say, then "Midora beat up a guy who ate an universe, hence he can destroy universes".

Silly logic is silly.

Are you referring to NEO eating stars over THOUSANDS of years ?

 

[Nie Li]

Are you referring to NEO eating stars over THOUSANDS of years ?

Yes, that's a better feat than anything in Dragon Ball other than that midget that erases universes.

 

[LadyVados]

Yes, that's a better feat than anything in Dragon Ball other than that midget that erases universes.

Better feat than Beerus’ feats...

 

[Nie Li]

Better feat than Beerus’ feats...

Yes. Beerus barely has actual feats other than hakai, an actual hax skill like Midora's.

Anything else DB has is verbal hype from the characters themselves. Is Broly stronger than Frieza? Sure, does that mean he can destroy universes? Hell, no. It just means he's stronger than a guy who destroyed some planets, but how much more destructive than him is he in a real scale? We have Broly, a character who actually can't hold back because he literally goes insane and full power, clashing his powers against an equally or perhaps even stronger Vegito, both of them throwing energy attacks at full power, and the planet they're fighting on doesn't get destroyed. The best feat from the fight is burning down some iceberg.

Please, it's absurd to elevate these characters to such levels just because they keep "getting stronger" despite never actually showing any such feat. If you want me to believe Broly is universal show me him destroying a galaxy or a single planet.

Then we have the dozen of different haxes Midora has to survive the fight and kill him, towards which Broly has no hax defenses of his own.

We also have a Broly that has no means to stop Midora's regeneration.

And finally, we also have a Broly that can't survive in the vacuum of space yet somehow he's "multiversal".

A guy who has no way to kill his opponent vs a guy who has many ways to kill his, including the undeniable way of destroying the Earth and letting him suffocate in space.

Yes, if Broly wins the poll it's gonna be because of popularity.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 31, 2021, Original Post Date: Mar 31, 2021 ---

Anyway, since Midora isn't a simple brute brawler like Broly and is instead about his other skills, the "who's got the bigger muscles" talk is irrelevant either way. This match is not about that. You could bring Jiren, Saitama and Superman to back Broly and they'd get erased.

 

[LadyVados]

Yes. Beerus barely has actual feats other than hakai, an actual hax skill like Midora's.

Anything else DB has is verbal hype from the characters themselves. Is Broly stronger than Frieza? Sure, does that mean he can destroy universes? Hell, no. It just means he's stronger than a guy who destroyed some planets, but how much more destructive than him is he in a real scale? We have Broly, a character who actually can't hold back because he literally goes insane and full power, clashing his powers against an equally or perhaps even stronger Vegito, both of them throwing energy attacks at full power, and the planet they're fighting on doesn't get destroyed. The best feat from the fight is burning down some iceberg.

Please, it's absurd to elevate these characters to such levels just because they keep "getting stronger" despite never actually showing any such feat. If you want me to believe Broly is universal show me him destroying a galaxy or a single planet.

Then we have the dozen of different haxes Midora has to survive the fight and kill him, towards which Broly has no hax defenses of his own.

We also have a Broly that has no means to stop Midora's regeneration.

And finally, we also have a Broly that can't survive in the vacuum of space yet somehow he's "multiversal".

A guy who has no way to kill his opponent vs a guy who has many ways to kill his, including the undeniable way of destroying the Earth and letting him suffocate in space.

Yes, if Broly wins the poll it's gonna be because of popularity.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 31, 2021, Original Post Date: Mar 31, 2021 ---

Anyway, since Midora isn't a simple brute brawler like Broly and is instead about his other skills, the "who's got the bigger muscles" talk is irrelevant either way. This match is not about that. You could bring Jiren, Saitama and Superman to back Broly and they'd get erased.

Planets are always indestructible in fiction,

Beerus has literary threatened the universe during his clashes, Even Beerus and Gogeta’s clash distorted the space time continuum

 

[Nie Li]

Planets are always indestructible in fiction,

Beerus has literary threatened the universe during his clashes, Even Beerus and Gogeta’s clash distorted the space time continuum

That feat is irrelevant. Characters in different fictions need more or less strength to attain such feats. Characters from Nanatsu no Taizai can't even destroy a country yet there was a guy who altered the space time continuum just by existing.

Even as a feat it's not impressive: Midora can just freely alter the space time continuum around him at will. And it's not even taxing for him to do it.

And no, planets aren't indestructible in fiction. We can't just cherry pick the good feats and then multiply them infinitely to suit our tastes. We cannot claim someone can destroy many universes at once when him going all out doesn't destroy one galaxy, one planet or even one country.

Even if you argue it by comparisons, it's still absurd. Can Frieza destroy a planet? Yes, an unknown planet of unknown size, but he can. Does that mean that Broly being much stronger than him can destroy the universe? No. For all we know being stronger than him just means being capable of destroying a bigger planet, not two planets, much less a galaxy or the universe. The only reason to believe Broly is multiversal is by trying to apply real world maths into the manga's drawings and that just doesn't work that way. The author himself is not that accurate when he works.

 

[LadyVados]

That feat is irrelevant. Characters in different fictions need more or less strength to attain such feats. Characters from Nanatsu no Taizai can't even destroy a country yet there was a guy who altered the space time continuum just by existing.

Even as a feat it's not impressive: Midora can just freely alter the space time continuum around him at will. And it's not even taxing for him to do it.

And no, planets aren't indestructible in fiction. We can't just cherry pick the good feats and then multiply them infinitely to suit our tastes. We cannot claim someone can destroy many universes at once when him going all out doesn't destroy one galaxy, one planet or even one country.

Even if you argue it by comparisons, it's still absurd. Can Frieza destroy a planet? Yes, an unknown planet of unknown size, but he can. Does that mean that Broly being much stronger than him can destroy the universe? No. For all we know being stronger than him just means being capable of destroying a bigger planet, not two planets, much less a galaxy or the universe. The only reason to believe Broly is multiversal is by trying to apply real world maths into the manga's drawings and that just doesn't work that way. The author himself is not that accurate when he works.

I get the feeling you know you’re wrong and are still arguing since you don’t want to admit defeat

 

[Riku]

So this debate comes down to "Broly wins because in DB Universe anything can be overcome with sheer strenght. And Broly is just strenght, strenght stregmht so much that it brakes reality and everyone who think otherwise just can't admit defeat"

I think this image relates:

Spoiler

I went for Midora. I think this essentially comes down to if Brolys reality breaking ability is something he can control/access every time he needs. If he can break reality and warp the rules of physics, then he can break Minority World and win. However, I understood that this was kind of an one-time thing, that happened by accident. Midora is likely strong, smart and versatile enough to wiggle thorough Brolys sheer power, if he can't with consistent control break Midors hax abilities.

 

[LadyVados]

Midora is a statue to Brolly, he’ll be dead before the synapses in his brain can fire

 

[Hardy]

However, I understood that this was kind of an one-time thing, that happened by accident. Midora is likely strong, smart and versatile enough to wiggle thorough Brolys sheer power, if he can't with consistent control break Midors hax abilities.

Happened by accident but twice within 30 dragonball movie seconds, not sure why it wouldn't happen again?

I can't argue about fused zamasu because I read the manga, not the anime, and the manga was very different at that fight (and much more coherent, I must say). At least in the manga, they never could take down Zamasu down and they just ended up calling that little guy who really is universal level and can just snap people or universes out of existence.

That's why everyone is so scared of that little guy: because he's the only man in the series who is actually multiversal while everyone else is barely planetary if we take away what they say their power is.

Saying that "since Jiren is stronger than Zamasu then he is stronger than the universe" without him ever being shown anything even on planetary level is what I don't like about DB power scaling. He's "that" strong in name only.

I don't remember regeneration in Toriko being limited by the strength of the attack. The strongest characters that did die, did so because of stronger haxes (either more broken or just stronger versions of their own), not because the opponent was physically stronger.

Even then, one thing is the normal hyper-regeneration top characters have in the series. Midora uses Minority World to heal instead of offensively. That goes beyond other forms of regeneration as it's not exactly healing or regrowing, but modifying physics so whatever injure he recieved is reconstructed. This includes vital organs like his heart or whatever (he smashed his own heart in a fight and just recreated it later).

The reality-warping from Broly was an accident, isn't that so? It's not something that he has control over nor something that he can actively have around himself, so how can that protect him from outer space?

We have Broly who is superior physically and when goes all out he has some form of accidental reality-warping, and we have Midora, who can casually control physics with his mind and control the flow of time outside of his body.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 31, 2021, Original Post Date: Mar 31, 2021 ---

Hell, I just remembered Moro, at a that time he was much weaker than Goku, fused with Earth and he suddenly became so strong that Goku needed to take on all of his friends strength to break from his grasp. Really, the feats on the series are atrocious. If we don't take into account the little multiversal guy no one from DB has done anything like Neo eating an universe. The only close feat to that is Broly supposedly destroying galaxies and that's a non canon feat from the non-DBS Broly, and a feat that could have also taken decades for all we know.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 31, 2021 ---

Spoiler: Btw

It sounds like I'm pissed or something because I'm "intense" when writing about this stuff but I'm not.

In the anime Zamasu gets split in half by a sword genki dama so he does this

Then zeno comes and same shit.

I don't like it either but it's a statement so why ignore it? It's lame like Brolly but it is what it is. Not sure why two characters easily much much muuuch weaker than Brolly clashing almost breaking the universe (twice) is being ignored either.

Moro was constantly absorbing their powers though, they all grew weaker as he grew stronger. It was a weird scene though I guess, the fight dragged for too long.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 31, 2021 ---

Regeneration in Toriko

 

[Blakestnight666]

Lol toriko fans be wanking him to high heavens. Broly would smash midora like an ant. All the haxes mentioned by the toriko fanboy shouldn't even affect broly as db characters have shown feats of resistance against hax abilities.

Vegeta could overpower mind control, frieza can resist existence erasure, goku could overcome hit's time skip, he also broke out of hit's timeskip etc.

And broly himself can copy techniques.

And what people think that broly can't destroy a planet because he hasn't shown any feat like that. This is the worst argument ever given

 

[Nie Li]

Lol toriko fans be wanking him to high heavens. Broly would smash midora like an ant. All the haxes mentioned by the toriko fanboy shouldn't even affect broly as db characters have shown feats of resistance against hax abilities.

Vegeta could overpower mind control, frieza can resist existence erasure, goku could overcome hit's time skip, he also broke out of hit's timeskip etc.

And broly himself can copy techniques.

And what people think that broly can't destroy a planet because he hasn't shown any feat like that. This is the worst argument ever given

The worst argument ever given is believing Broly can destroy the universe with nothing to provide for it from his best feats indeed failing to destroy a single planet.

The DB wank is too strong. Entirely ignoring every skill of the opponent, including him being able to regenerate even holes in his head, being able to control time and being able to actually survive in space, which Broly can't.

Do you want to fanboy him through the offensive haxes? Good, you're still ignoring Broly not having anything to kill Midora before he wills the Earth to be erased and Broly auffocates in space

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 31, 2021, Original Post Date: Mar 31, 2021 ---

I get the feeling you know you’re wrong and are still arguing since you don’t want to admit defeat

Not at all. I know Broly doesn't stand a chance and I'm actually surprised at the amount of fanboyism DB actually has just because "muh power levels".

This really is the equivalent of "because he's Broly".

 

[Valhalla]

This is a tough one. As powerful as Broly is, it would take a lot out of him to just overcome Midora's Gourmet Luck.
And can Broly actually do something against Hungry Space and Minority World, both very hax abilities. Plus Midora is like Broly he learns as he fights. His copy ability is ridiculous.
But yes Broly does have the strength above a god of destruction, so .... i got nothing. There are some interesting arguments here. Ill wait and see which side convinces me more to vote.

 

[Nie Li]

This is a tough one. As powerful as Broly is, it would take a lot out of him to just overcome Midora's Gourmet Luck.
And can Broly actually do something against Hungry Space and Minority World, both very hax abilities. Plus Midora is like Broly he learns as he fights. His copy ability is ridiculous.
But yes Broly does have the strength above a god of destruction, so .... i got nothing. There are some interesting arguments here. Ill wait and see which side convinces me more to vote.

Even without getting into the whole "Midora can survive Earth's destruction but Broly cannot", there's another thing to consider about Broly: he's not known exactly for starting his fights at full power but rather to keep powering up as the fight goes on.

There's Hungry Space, Minority World, but also time acceleration outside of his body through Back Channel. He can make Broly, and everything else around him, biologically age decades in seconds. The argument that Broly could break through these skills ignores that he wouldn't do so instantly, as they're techniques that feel passive and happen naturally. They're the kind of techniques that affect the enemy before he realizes. As was the case every time in Toriko even though its characters shine in how superhuman their senses and perceptions are.

 

[Lambu]

This thread is proof of how overhyped DB characters are in general.

Not going to lie, in terms of pure power and energy Broly is ahead, but theres a lot of "feats" that are given to DB characters that are just a stretch of its author's terrible scaling.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 31, 2021, Original Post Date: Mar 31, 2021 ---

Why are those planet attacks impressive? Super buu opened a whole in space time, SS God Goku almost destroys the... Timeline? Clashing with Beerus. OG Freezer barely trying and in his first form exploded planet Vegeta. Hell, Roshi with a PL of 130 blasted the Moon and rn the number is easily over trillions...

You know how much of a die hard fan I am man, but aside of Zeno no character has proved to be able to destroy a dimension, much less the DB Universe.

Even so, Broly is definitely a monster and the only way Midora can keep up with him is abusing his hax, if Broly can break through them (and I think he can) then Midora is done for, but this match doesnt seem like a stomp or easy win.

 

[Hardy]

This thread is proof of how overhyped DB characters are in general.

Not going to lie, in terms of pure power and energy Broly is ahead, but theres a lot of "feats" that are given to DB characters that are just a stretch of its author's terrible scaling.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 31, 2021, Original Post Date: Mar 31, 2021 ---

You know how much of a die hard fan I am man, but aside of Zeno no character has proved to be able to destroy a dimension, much less the DB Universe.

Even so, Broly is definitely a monster and the only way Midora can keep up with him is abusing his hax, if Broly can break through them (and I think he can) then Midora is done for, but this match doesnt seem like a stomp or easy win.

I meant universe, I didn't double check back then (that's why I left a question mark).

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 31, 2021 ---

I've overall seen things on a similar way as you but with Broly being too boring to deserve to pass lol.

 

[Lambu]

I meant universe, I didn't double check back then (that's why I left a question mark).

Yeah the problem of DB and its definition of "Universe" is that they actually aren't Universes, just a dimension of one Universe. Thats why there are """"12"""" ""universes"" and they are paired and stuff: 6-7, 5-8, 4-9 etc...

When it said Zamas became one with the Universe I assume he gained omnipresence in that dimension, so Zeno just went and destroyed it in that timeline but it looked more like a consequence of inmortality after eliminating his physical form for good (that part of the anime was cancer).

Most of the power scaling in DB is fruit of the big mouth of the characters too, see Cell and his "Solar System busting Kamehame-ha" (lol).
Characters that can die fruit of a planetary explosion cannot possibly perform those feats, like gtfoh Cell

The same can be said about Moro overpowering Goku and Vegeta by absorbing a planet's energy... DB just cant be taken seriously after Frieza. Shit happens "just because" without actual thought on the implications behind it.

 

[Blakestnight666]

The worst argument ever given is believing Broly can destroy the universe with nothing to provide for it from his best feats indeed failing to destroy a single planet.

The DB wank is too strong. Entirely ignoring every skill of the opponent, including him being able to regenerate even holes in his head, being able to control time and being able to actually survive in space, which Broly can't.

Do you want to fanboy him through the offensive haxes? Good, you're still ignoring Broly not having anything to kill Midora before he wills the Earth to be erased and Broly auffocates in space

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 31, 2021, Original Post Date: Mar 31, 2021 ---

Not at all. I know Broly doesn't stand a chance and I'm actually surprised at the amount of fanboyism DB actually has just because "muh power levels".

This really is the equivalent of "because he's Broly".

The worst thing is you don't even know that a single energy blast from broly and gogeta destroyed the space time or them destroying space time of a different dimension with a single punch

Lol this is the most stupid argument i have ever seen. Saying that a character which can clash with goku whose punches were going to destroy the universe 7 macrosome. Do you even know what AP/DC is. By looking at your comments you surely don't know them.

Show me a scan where midora has regenerated from getting obliterated on atomic level.

Broly can create shields with which he can survive space.

Show me a scan where midora erases entire planet instantly