Voting Round 1 Midora vs. Broly (DBS)

[HereNThere]

Oh riiight, I had forgotten that! Even his dead is fucking broken.

And let's not forget that he didn't even bring out his own Appetite Demon to play. Or the fact that he can access Back Channels, which means he can slow down time in his immediate area as he sees fit.

 

[cracker]

Imagine destroying the universe....something that in all likelihood is infinite

 

[Shasha23]

Let's add one more feat.

Say Broly attacks Midora with a kamehameha or some shit.

Spoiler: Minority World

Would you look at that, Midora just makes the energy attack reverse direction by reversing the tendency of its atoms, making Broly hit himself.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 30, 2021, Original Post Date: Mar 30, 2021 ---

1- If we can just make up what the characters "should be capable of" I can just claim Midora could destroy the universe but the author just holds his feats down.

2- Too bad Midora's haxes are proved to work on opponents stronger than the one using the hax.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 30, 2021 ---

Yes I agree that energy blasts would be useless and that's a big if, but even then Broly is faster and physically stronger, Midora cant do anything if Broly just blitzes and punches him.

1. We are scaling on feats we have seen, no one in Toriko can even destroy a galaxy so its pretty pointless to say Midaora can destroy a universe, that just a baseless headcanon with no merit, while on the other hand Broly scales much higher than people who can actually destroy multiple universes, in the end, its only logical to say Broly can also destroy a universe since he is much stronger than a person who can destroy a universe and shake infinity.

The strength gap between him and those people was not worlds apart, even if his abilities would magically start working Broly can always just shatter reality and be done with it.

 

[Nie Li]

And let's not forget that he didn't even bring out his own Appetite Demon to play. Or the fact that he can access Back Channels, which means he can slow down time in his immediate area as he sees fit.

Here I was hyping Midora and I just forget some of his coolest facts and skills.

I should re-read the last arc, I always loved how absurdly broken he and Toriko became.

Either way, Minority World is enough to just vaporize most of the people in this tournament.

Yes I agree that energy blasts would be useless and that's a big if, but even then Broly is faster and physically stronger, Midora cant do anything if Broly just blitzes and punches him.

1. We are scaling on feats we have seen, no one in Toriko can even destroy a galaxy so its pretty pointless to say Midaora can destroy a universe, that just a baseless headcanon with no merit, while on the other hand Broly scales much higher than people who can actually destroy multiple universes, in the end, its only logical to say Broly can also destroy a universe since he is much stronger than a person who can destroy a universe and shake infinity.

The strength gap between him and those people was not worlds apart, even if his abilities would magically start working Broly can always just shatter reality and be done with it.

Who in DB has destroyed a galaxy with his power? Much less an universe, other than that guy who can just erase them at will (and Broly doesn't have that power)? Boo's feats of destroying planets are not better than Neo's feats on Toriko. In fact, Neo is known to have devoured a whole universe (the "blue universe"). Neo couldn't kill Midora.

Who in DB has just "shattered reality and been done with it"? When did Broly do that, ever?

Another question, "so what" if he blitzes and punches Midora? Midora can just regenerate being blown apart with Minority World and, as long as Broly is made out of atoms, Midora can just will them to break apart. Unless Broly has a similar technique to counter it, just having ki isn't enough. In fact, as demonstrated by the last picture I posted, Midora's Minority World can affect how his opponents "ki" works. If Broly powers up and boosts his strength with ki, Minority World can reverse the ki's tendency to strengthen Broly and make it so Broly is weakened by his own ki, instead of empowered.

Broly will be a fine meal for Midora.

 

[Shasha23]

Here I was hyping Midora and I just forget some of his coolest facts and skills.

I should re-read the last arc, I always loved how absurdly broken he and Toriko became.

Either way, Minority World is enough to just vaporize most of the people in this tournament.


Who in DB has destroyed a galaxy with his power? Much less an universe, other than that guy who can just erase them at will (and Broly doesn't have that power)? Boo's feats of destroying planets are not better than Neo's feats on Toriko. In fact, Neo is known to have devoured a whole universe (the "blue universe"). Neo couldn't kill Midora.

Who in DB has just "shattered reality and been done with it"? When did Broly do that, ever?

Another question, "so what" if he blitzes and punches Midora? Midora can just regenerate being blown apart with Minority World and, as long as Broly is made out of atoms, Midora can just will them to break apart. Unless Broly has a similar technique to counter it, just having ki isn't enough. In fact, as demonstrated by the last picture I posted, Midora's Minority World can affect how his opponents "ki" works. If Broly powers up and boosts his strength with ki, Minority World can reverse the ki's tendency to strengthen Broly and make it so Broly is weakened by his own ki, instead of empowered.

Broly will be a fine meal for Midora.

like I said Broly shattered reality when powering up and created a pock dimension with the outside world frozen in time.

Neo was said to have done it but why are you disregarding other character statements from DB and more so statements made by gods overseeing those universes?

Its fine and all o disregard how other universes works and only see how your guy works in his universe, but again what makes you think Midora's abilities will work on Broly when in DB people with such hax magic like abilities cant affect people who are much more powerful than them, and it plainly obvious at this point that Broly's power even before turning super saiyan is far above Midora?
I just cant agree with the logic of disregarding Broly's abilities just for the sake of someone weaker being a match

 

[Nie Li]

One other thing: Midora gets stronger the tastier and stronger things he eats.

Eating Broly's attacks and body will empower him to new heights through the fight. It will be better for Broly to just vaporize through Minority World.

like I said Broly shattered reality when powering up and created a pock dimension with the outside world frozen in time.

Neo was said to have done it but why are you disregarding other character statements from DB and more so statements made by gods overseeing those universes?

Because Neo actually did that and isn't all talk.

Broly created a pocket dimension? So what? What does that prove about his strength or about him being immune to Midora's haxes? It's a totally unrelated feat.

Its fine and all o disregard how other universes works and only see how your guy works in his universe, but again what makes you think Midora's abilities will work on Broly when in DB people with such hax magic like abilities cant affect people who are much more powerful than them, and it plainly obvious at this point that Broly's power even before turning super saiyan is far above Midora?

Yeah, no. Moro was the most recent villain in DB Super's manga and his magic could affect people much stronger than him. He could even steal power from Goku or Vegeta, so what impedes Midora from doing the same?

I just cant agree with the logic of disregarding Broly's abilities just for the sake of someone weaker being a match

But this is exactly what you're doing, you are trying to disregard Midora's abilities just for the sake of someone with no immunity to them being a match.

No one is disregarding Broly's abilities, but the truth is this: he's just a strong brute with no immunity to Midora's haxes.

The only arguments in Broly's favour are "He's physically much stronger (in theory) than his opponent, hence I want to disregard every non-powerlevel related skill from his opponent", but it doesn't work that way.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 31, 2021, Original Post Date: Mar 31, 2021 ---

Let's add one more feat.

What @HereNThere said about Back Channels.

Midora cannot only enter Back Channels, he can create Back Channels.

This means that:

1- Midora can exceed the speed of light to create a Back Channel.

2- He can exit the real world and enter an alternate dimension in which he can't be sensed or touched.

3- He can slow time down around him. He can make it so what others perceive as a single minute is actually days for himself.

4- He can accelerate time around him. He can make it those around him age years in a few seconds and simply die of old age.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 31, 2021 ---

But let's make this fight even more simple:

Midora's Minority World makes Earth vanish. He has many ways to survive it.

Meanwhile.

Broly immediately dies in the vacuum.

There's just so many ways for Midora to kill Broly this contest becomes just a matter of how should he kill him.

 

[HereNThere]

Midora: You can't hold your breath to continue fighting in the vacuum of space?

Spoiler

Broly needs to snack on Acacia's Full Course to at least stand more of chance.

 

[Hardy]

Hm, FTL isn't much of a feat in DB though. Dyspo was easily faster than speed and sound, yet Golden Freezer was faster tham him (until he used his secret ability). This is a series where power is usually linked to also speed unless specifically stated otherwise, so naturally Brolly should be... Faster than faster than faster than light.

I don't think Beerus' "universe shattering in an instant" feats should be ignored, and they were mentioned twice so it's not just a lie. On the other hand the biggest power feat mentioned of Toriko (afaik?) Is Neo eating galaxies but god knows how many eons it took him.

I'm leaning on Brolly winning because his power is MAXIMUM but he's lame af so I kinda don't care.

 

[Nie Li]

Hm, FTL isn't much of a feat in DB though. Dyspo was easily faster than speed and sound, yet Golden Freezer was faster tham him (until he used his secret ability). This is a series where power is usually linked to also speed unless specifically stated otherwise, so naturally Brolly should be... Faster than faster than faster than light.

I don't think Beerus' "universe shattering in an instant" feats should be ignored, and they were mentioned twice so it's not just a lie. On the other hand the biggest power feat mentioned of Toriko (afaik?) Is Neo eating galaxies but god knows how many eons it took him.

I'm leaning on Brolly winning because his power is MAXIMUM but he's lame af so I kinda don't care.

You guys focus too much on the base stat feats instead of the haxes that disregard physical stats.

Broly could be faster than Midora, but his speed doesn't give him control over time like Midora's. His hax is explained as being caused by his speed, but how efficient it is is independent from his physical strength or lack of it. Same for his other haxes.

 

[Hardy]

You guys focus too much on the base stat feats instead of the haxes that disregard physical stats.

Broly could be faster than Midora, but his speed doesn't give him control over time like Midora's. His hax is explained as being caused by his speed, but how efficient it is is independent from his physical strength or lack of it. Same for his other haxes.

But we have seen Haxes in DB like Hit stopping time and guys being so strong they just powered through somehow. Unless stated otherwise, power>all in Dragonball, it's hard to ignore its basic promise. I saw you briefly mentioning Moro before but it's stated his "Magic level" is incredibly high which is basically an alternative power level with a different name lol.

 

[Nie Li]

But we have seen Haxes in DB like Hit stopping time and guys being so strong they just powered through somehow. Unless stated otherwise, power>all in Dragonball, it's hard to ignore its basic promise. I saw you briefly mentioning Moro before but it's stated his "Magic level" is incredibly high which is basically an alternative power level with a different name lol.

But Moro's "power level" was incredibly low until he stole (through his magic) the power from stronger beings.

Midora's "gourmet level" is monstruous.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 31, 2021, Original Post Date: Mar 31, 2021 ---

In other words, if an "alternative form of power" being high is enough, the premise of "power overpowers everything" from Dragon Ball is only valid because beings that are strong in alternative areas like Moro are scarce, but once someone like him appears he can affect them with his haxes.

 

[Equaling Heaven]

I was like "lmfao Broly stomps" then I gave it another look and noticed that I somehow readed Midoriya an not Midora.

 

[Hardy]

But Moro's "power level" was incredibly low until he stole (through his magic) the power from stronger beings.

Midora's "gourmet level" is monstruous.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 31, 2021, Original Post Date: Mar 31, 2021 ---

In other words, if an "alternative form of power" being high is enough, the premise of "power overpowers everything" from Dragon Ball is only valid because beings that are strong in alternative areas like Moro are scarce, but once someone like him appears he can affect them with his haxes.

No, I mean that it's literally power level just with another name to sound imaginative. Same way God Ki was also a thing. The way Moro uses his power seems to be a summatory of both which lets him match with Vegeta Blue. And it's literally just Moro, I don't recall "Magic Power" being an scaled thing before (maybe ShenRon?).

I researched a bunch and even stumbled upon communities centered around Vs that tier these characters. No surprise, Brolly was always considerably higher there.

And naturally I'm aware I sound repetitive and maybe stubborn, but that's literally the character lol. Just one big, strong and fast beatstick. In that sense he easily pales in comparison with the interesting character you guys brought up, no doubt.

 

[Nie Li]

No, I mean that it's literally power level just with another name to sound imaginative. Same way God Ki was also a thing. The way Moro uses his power seems to be a summatory of both which lets him match with Vegeta Blue. And it's literally just Moro, I don't recall "Magic Power" being an scaled thing before (maybe ShenRon?).

I researched a bunch and even stumbled upon communities centered around Vs that tier these characters. No surprise, Brolly was always considerably higher there.

And naturally I'm aware I sound repetitive and maybe stubborn, but that's literally the character lol. Just one big, strong and fast beatstick. In that sense he easily pales in comparison with the interesting character you guys brought up, no doubt.

I don't buy it. DB has cool fights and all but those VS sites use maths to say things like Shasha23 does ("Broly is multiversal") without evidence. No one in DB has ever pulled any remotely similar to a feat like that.

1- On the power level argument.

Moro's physical strength and ki were significantly weaker than Goku's and Vegeta's in the beginning, yet their magic still affected them. That's the only reason they first tried to have Boo, who was immune to it, to fight him. This alone destroys the whole argument.

Also, if "power level" can be defined by a character having very strong haxes ("magic") despite being weaker physically or ki-wise, how do you determine Midora to have a "lower power level" if his haxes are way above his physical strength?

There was also Goku could use the magic-sealing technique on beings stronger than himself. A technique they tried to pull on beings that they thought they couldn't beat in a fight and that wasn't dependant on power-levels either. So powerlevels seem to only stop certain techniques that also depend on ki to be used, but not any other techniques of different natures.

2- On the specific natures of Midora's techniques.

Minority World and Back Channel aresn't "magic" to begin with, they're just skills that influence change in the laws of physics and they're supposed to work in "scientific ways" (yeah, I know). Time accelerating around Midora would be a "scientific occurrence" from opening the Back Channel, and even some animals in the world of Toriko are capable of pulling off this technique, and it's something that takes place without any physical indication other than the opponent suddenly realizing he's growing old and dying. Even the big bad guy universe-eater didn't notice it in time. Only by mastering similar (or the same) techniques were they ever countered.

About Minority World, even if one wants to argue Broly is "immune" to it, it can be used "around" Broly. Midora can make it so when Broly breathes, the Co2 that exists his lungs just chooses to immediately get back in instead and suffocate him. There's no limits to how he can choose to use the skill. And even if Broly really was immune to it, how would Broly kill Midora?

3- Which brings me here. How does Broly exactly win this?

I have seen no explanations as to how he would surpass Midora's "immortality". Nor have I seen any explanations on how would Broly survive if Midora just destroys the planet. Broly has no teleportation and both DBS and Toriyama himself have confirmed that saiyans cannot breathe in space.

 

[Hardy]

I don't buy it. DB has cool fights and all but those VS sites use maths to say things like Shasha23 does ("Broly is multiversal") without evidence. No one in DB has ever pulled any remotely similar to a feat like that.

1- On the power level argument.

Moro's physical strength and ki were significantly weaker than Goku's and Vegeta's in the beginning, yet their magic still affected them. That's the only reason they first tried to have Boo, who was immune to it, to fight him. This alone destroys the whole argument.

Also, if "power level" can be defined by a character having very strong haxes ("magic") despite being weaker physically or ki-wise, how do you determine Midora to have a "lower power level" if his haxes are way above his physical strength?

There was also Goku could use the magic-sealing technique on beings stronger than himself. A technique they tried to pull on beings that they thought they couldn't beat in a fight and that wasn't dependant on power-levels either. So powerlevels seem to only stop certain techniques that also depend on ki to be used, but not any other techniques of different natures.

2- On the specific natures of Midora's techniques.

Minority World and Back Channel aresn't "magic" to begin with, they're just skills that influence change in the laws of physics and they're supposed to work in "scientific ways" (yeah, I know). Time accelerating around Midora would be a "scientific occurrence" from opening the Back Channel, and even some animals in the world of Toriko are capable of pulling off this technique, and it's something that takes place without any physical indication other than the opponent suddenly realizing he's growing old and dying. Even the big bad guy universe-eater didn't notice it in time. Only by mastering similar (or the same) techniques were they ever countered.

About Minority World, even if one wants to argue Broly is "immune" to it, it can be used "around" Broly. Midora can make it so when Broly breathes, the Co2 that exists his lungs just chooses to immediately get back in instead and suffocate him. There's no limits to how he can choose to use the skill. And even if Broly really was immune to it, how would Broly kill Midora?

3- Which brings me here. How does Broly exactly win this?

I have seen no explanations as to how he would surpass Midora's "immortality". Nor have I seen any explanations on how would Broly survive if Midora just destroys the planet. Broly has no teleportation and both DBS and Toriyama himself have confirmed that saiyans cannot breathe in space.

But there is evidence though, just following DB's linearity.

Fused Zamasu became one with the universe, he was that strong.

Jiren was introduced as the biggest opponent they had ever faced, so he is stronger but was ultimately defeated.

Brolly is even stronger. Done.

I don't know much about Toriko but I did search how regeneration works in that aorld. Apparently if they are hit hard enough there is no way to regenerate, so given how much stronger Brolly is he can just punch real good by being much faster and gg? If he can recreate reality warping like he did against Gogeta (and it happened twice so dunno why it wouldn't happen again) then not breathing in space is a non issue as there is no space for that to happen in the first place.

 

[Nie Li]

But there is evidence though, just following DB's linearity.

Fused Zamasu became one with the universe, he was that strong.

Jiren was introduced as the biggest opponent they had ever faced, so he is stronger but was ultimately defeated.

Brolly is even stronger. Done.

I don't know much about Toriko but I did search how regeneration works in that aorld. Apparently if they are hit hard enough there is no way to regenerate, so given how much stronger Brolly is he can just punch real good by being much faster and gg? If he can recreate reality warping like he did against Gogeta (and it happened twice so dunno why it wouldn't happen again) then not breathing in space is a non issue as there is no space for that to happen in the first place.

I can't argue about fused zamasu because I read the manga, not the anime, and the manga was very different at that fight (and much more coherent, I must say). At least in the manga, they never could take down Zamasu down and they just ended up calling that little guy who really is universal level and can just snap people or universes out of existence.

That's why everyone is so scared of that little guy: because he's the only man in the series who is actually multiversal while everyone else is barely planetary if we take away what they say their power is.

Saying that "since Jiren is stronger than Zamasu then he is stronger than the universe" without him ever being shown anything even on planetary level is what I don't like about DB power scaling. He's "that" strong in name only.

I don't remember regeneration in Toriko being limited by the strength of the attack. The strongest characters that did die, did so because of stronger haxes (either more broken or just stronger versions of their own), not because the opponent was physically stronger.

Even then, one thing is the normal hyper-regeneration top characters have in the series. Midora uses Minority World to heal instead of offensively. That goes beyond other forms of regeneration as it's not exactly healing or regrowing, but modifying physics so whatever injure he recieved is reconstructed. This includes vital organs like his heart or whatever (he smashed his own heart in a fight and just recreated it later).

The reality-warping from Broly was an accident, isn't that so? It's not something that he has control over nor something that he can actively have around himself, so how can that protect him from outer space?

We have Broly who is superior physically and when goes all out he has some form of accidental reality-warping, and we have Midora, who can casually control physics with his mind and control the flow of time outside of his body.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 31, 2021, Original Post Date: Mar 31, 2021 ---

Hell, I just remembered Moro, at a that time he was much weaker than Goku, fused with Earth and he suddenly became so strong that Goku needed to take on all of his friends strength to break from his grasp. Really, the feats on the series are atrocious. If we don't take into account the little multiversal guy no one from DB has done anything like Neo eating an universe. The only close feat to that is Broly supposedly destroying galaxies and that's a non canon feat from the non-DBS Broly, and a feat that could have also taken decades for all we know.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 31, 2021 ---

Spoiler: Btw

It sounds like I'm pissed or something because I'm "intense" when writing about this stuff but I'm not.

 

[LadyVados]

Broly shitstomps overrated Midora

 

[Nie Li]

Will this be the Erza win against someone clearly superior to her all over again? Oh, well.

Popularity will always be the strongest power after all.

 

[LadyVados]

Will this be the Erza win against someone clearly superior to her all over again? Oh, well.

Popularity will always be the strongest power after all.

Broly can destroy universes. Midora is completely outclassed

 

[Nie Li]

Broly can destroy universes. Midora is completely outclassed

I don't want to have the whole conversation again so I'll only say this: Broly has never destroyed a single planet, saying he can destroy universes is beyond fanboyism.