One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Nie Li]

Depends. We can't tell level of Haki being used on each attack. Though it's dumb to state Katakuri is now one-shot territory when he isn't especially to say Zoro could beat him when hasn't proven in 1 on 1 fights.

We can absolutely tell. Luffy already tried using normal G4 against "Human Kaido" way before on Wano. His attacks then were the same level of strength than the ones he used in Katakuri and we saw they had no effect. Everything Luffy's doing now is using his new haki to hurt Kaido: Luffy, too, could possibly oneshot Katakuri now.

The post you quoted doesn't say Zoro would 100% win in a fight against Katakuri, it says Katakuri can't tank his attacks, and that is true. He can dodge them with future sight, though, so that opens a different topic about who's faster and all that. I'm not gonna talk about that, but Katakuri is definitely in oneshot territory if he doesn't dodge properly.

 

[King Moe]

We can absolutely tell. Luffy already tried using normal G4 against "Human Kaido" way before on Wano. His attacks then were the same level of strength than the ones he used in Katakuri and we saw they had no effect. Everything Luffy's doing now is using his new haki to hurt Kaido: Luffy, too, could possibly oneshot Katakuri now.

The post you quoted doesn't say Zoro would 100% win in a fight against Katakuri, it says Katakuri can't tank his attacks, and that is true. He can dodge them with future sight, though, so that opens a different topic about who's faster and all that. I'm not gonna talk about that, but Katakuri is definitely in oneshot territory if he doesn't dodge properly.

I find it hard to believe if Katakuri even get hit once, he will be defeated which he isn't. He is tank more than we realize. If fight happen, Katakuri beats Zoro by best of Midd-Diff. Don't see stats can match the own of Katakuri especially if we talking one on one fights.

 

[Ramen]

Zoro >> WCI Luffy >=< Katakuri

That Wano power creep is too much.

 

[King Moe]

Zoro >> WCI Luffy >=< Katakuri

That Wano power creep is too much.

Nope.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Imagine thinking hurting Kaido makes you stronger than any Yonko Commander.

Kinemon and Raizo are clearly portrayed as YC1+.

 

[kkck]

Inuarashi and nekomamushi are clearly capable of cutting kaido but neither managed to win against jack in an insanely favorable scenario. I would maintain this shows cutting kaido is just an arbitrary haki feat rather than a strictly power level thing. like how zoro learned to cut metal.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Inuarashi and nekomamushi are clearly capable of cutting kaido but neither managed to win against jack in an insanely favorable scenario. I would maintain this shows cutting kaido is just an arbitrary haki feat rather than a strictly power level thing. like how zoro learned to cut metal.

We've had more people hurt Kaido than Big Mom.

Someone show me Big Mom's blood... then I'll be impressed lol

 

[LadyVados]

You’d have to be nuts to think Luffy or any commander is stronger than Zoro at this point, in my opinion he is admiral tier now, unquestionably strongest supernova and straw hat.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 31, 2021 ---

We've had more people hurt Kaido than Big Mom.

Someone show me Big Mom's blood... then I'll be impressed lol

Put her in a 1v1 with Zoro or Mihawk.

There will be an ocean of her blood

 

[King Moe]

You’d have to be nuts to think Luffy or any commander is stronger than Zoro at this point, in my opinion he is admiral tier now, unquestionably strongest supernova and straw hat.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 31, 2021 ---

Put her in a 1v1 with Zoro or Mihawk.

There will be an ocean of her blood

LMAO....Nah, Zoro isn't. Debatable on Killer side, but he isn't stronger than Luffy, Kidd, and Law who doing work as well. You don't ignore feats of others for biased on fanboy side.

Plus team fights doesn't equal your stronger than anyone else in one-on-one fight. Your getting help to face Yonkos, so takes away your own level especially Zoro stated last chapter about how tough they are while he doesn't know how to beat them and they aren't even going all out.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 31, 2021 ---

Imagine thinking hurting Kaido makes you stronger than any Yonko Commander.

Kinemon and Raizo are clearly portrayed as YC1+.

I feel Full Zoan Kaido isn't really feat worthy as much as we thought. I mean even Pre-Adv. COA Luffy push him to the ground. Does that mean Luffy was already stronger prior to learning Adv. COA? Nope since he got one-shot when Kaido wants to try and he just tanks after all.

 

[XXGenesis]

There is no indication that enma comes with substantial stamina drawkbacks... or any drawbacks once mastered.

Oden had Enma mastered and showed no drawback true.

You mistook what I said and in which the context I mentioned it.

There’s major hypocrisy about Zoro getting a “Magic Sword” power up in comparison to the Big Equipment Boost power of the RS.

Zoro has a magic sword that he trained with and has owned to a point...He hasn’t mastered it yet. Either Way Zoro’s new power output isn’t a constant & leaves him vulnerable

Unlike Sanji receiving his family’s RS. Never used it but once, & was able to use its capabilities right away...Extra defense, Speed, invisibility’s etc

 

[kkck]

Oden had Enma mastered and showed no drawback true.

You mistook what I said and in which the context I mentioned it.

There’s major hypocrisy about Zoro getting a “Magic Sword” power up in comparison to the Big Equipment Boost power of the RS.

Zoro has a magic sword that he trained with and has owned to a point...He hasn’t mastered it yet. Either Way Zoro’s new power output isn’t a constant & leaves him vulnerable

Unlike Sanji receiving his family’s RS. Never used it but once, & was able to use its capabilities right away...Extra defense, Speed, invisibility’s etc

Enma is ultimately just a gimmick to have zoro improve his haki, which as we know is an actual boost to his overall capabilities. Once mastered the sword will be just that, a good sword. Give or take its personality or unique traits, like with zoro's other swords. The clutch suit is just that, a clutch. For an otherwise relatively weak character with subpar haki and no sign that the series is heading in a direction where haki evidences above average haki. If zoro loses enma he will still retain the skill he got from mastering it. If sanji loses his clutch... Welp.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

I understand the difference between missed and dodged. Here is an example - you play dodge ball, you throw a ball at a person who dodges the ball = you've missed.

Then you didn't miss, the person dodged because they'd have been hit.

An "attack missing" and "I missed" are 2 different things.

Attacks can miss because someone dodged.

All your example shows is the me throwing the ball in this example doesn't mean I missed, it only means the attack missed because the target evaded.

I missed implies the attack wasn't accurate, so Zoro is completely responsible.

Zoro said he missed meaning he missed, not that the attack missed due to Kaido moving.

In fact, Kaido's viewing Zoro from a frontal view before and after executing the attack implying Kaido didn't move.

 

[I Am Atomic]

Then you didn't miss, the person dodged because they'd have been hit.

An "attack missing" and "I missed" are 2 different things.

Attacks can miss because someone dodged.

All your example shows is the me throwing the ball in this example doesn't mean I missed, it only means the attack missed because the target evaded.

I missed implies the attack wasn't accurate, so Zoro is completely responsible.

Zoro said he missed meaning he missed, not that the attack missed due to Kaido moving.

In fact, Kaido's viewing Zoro from a frontal view before and after executing the attack implying Kaido didn't move.

I seriously think you shouldn't spend too much time on this point of the discussion. It's already been established that Enma is hard to control, so Zoro lost his accuracy.

 

[XXGenesis]

Enma is ultimately just a gimmick to have zoro improve his haki, which as we know is an actual boost to his overall capabilities. Once mastered the sword will be just that, a good sword. Give or take its personality or unique traits, like with zoro's other swords. The clutch suit is just that, a clutch. For an otherwise relatively weak character with subpar haki and no sign that the series is heading in a direction where haki evidences above average haki. If zoro loses enma he will still retain the skill he got from mastering it. If sanji loses his clutch... Welp.

Interesting way to look at things.

I believe both tools will remain in play further into the manga.

Enma will be Zoro’s new power Sword.
RS will be Sanji’s lack of Haki mastery save.

 

[jaymizzo]

Then you didn't miss, the person dodged because they'd have been hit.

An "attack missing" and "I missed" are 2 different things.

You miss when you fail to hit a target. Attack missing and I missed are the exact same thing. You don't need to try and disect it that deep.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

You miss when you fail to hit a target. Attack missing and I missed are the exact same thing. You don't need to try and disect it that deep.

Context bud.

Attack missing is the key which some of you don't seem to grasp and can't distinguish from "I missed".

Attacking missing can mean both failure to aim accurate and opponent evading depending on context.

I missed doesn't have that, I missed simply means one failed to aim accurately. When one says "I", in any context, they're referring to themselves in relation to the verb.

The very fact it says "I" "missed" implies missing is the fault of the attacker, not the opponent being aimed at or the attack.

It's really not rocket science.

Only reason I'm having to dissect it is because the nuances are not well understood despite it being so obvious.

Huge difference between "I missed" and "It missed/attack missed".

 

[Australopithecus]

I just would like to share two things on the issue. Concerning the semantics of missed, you can just contact a native English speaker and ask if their intuition (or gut feeling) tells the them whether or not missed with a moving target is acceptable. Linguists use a similar way to see whether sentences are grammatical or not in syntax, called grammaticality judgement. The speaker, however, should not be biased and feed us some lie, lol. The second thing is that I just read an article written by an American writer and found him using missed with moving targets.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

The second thing is that I just read an article written by an American writer and found him using missed with moving targets.

Context.

"I missed" and "It/attack missed" still mean different things.

Especially when the context is Kaido never moved.

 

[Aliocha]

What difference does it make whether Kaido dodge or not? Zoro really cut him after that

 

[Australopithecus]

Context.

"I missed" and "It/attack missed" still mean different things.

Especially when the context is Kaido never moved.

It's been a while, Hannibal. I hope you're doing well : ) I see your point, but Kaido could have moved back to his position after the dodge, no? Also, I am not sure whether Zoro was aiming at his head or body. If it is the latter, I think the panels we have are not sufficient to conclude whether or not he dodged imo.

Concerning what you said about "I" and "the attack", I looked out of curiosity and found they are both listed as examples of the same meaning. Any thoughts?

Spoiler: meaning

What difference does it make whether Kaido dodge or not? Zoro really cut him after that

haha, I am not sure. I just found a discussion about this and shared something about it. I am fine either way.