One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

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• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[M3J]

Most of all WB imo was a bad strategist & commander. Oz JR folly played its course but could have helped much more, Squardo betryal, WB health leaving him not leading as he should have....

Can't agree with that; if he was a bad strategist then the Whitebeard Pirates may have never made it out of the encirclement, and they would have been trapped and taken even heavier losses. He basically went into an enemy territory, where they knew Whitebeard was coming and could plan very well, and he did well with what he could.

 

[albertwv]

Everyone has their own viewpoint of how they see the characters. I know Critical has been going over this for a while, but nobody really discussed back with how he interpreted the panels wrong.
Most only kept saying "Vergo isn't Yonko level. U are an idiot" etc

I went over the points:
1. His right foot was planted on the ground
2. Sanji broke through his Armament haki, the same Sanji couldn't do that to Joker
3. Vergo only used his right leg on the last panel.

I didn't see anybody pointing that out, so I took the liberty at doing that. Sorry if that was cheerleader kicks to you.

Yes everyone has their own point of views for their favorite characters, we've seen Nik on Zolo and Moe on Sanji and now him on Vergo. We have to put a stop to this. We've settled this issue before and unfortunately for Critical, Vergo only has limited battles we can judge his strength with and honestly that argument is overrated. And you guys keep leading him on actually arguing back and forth about it. Cmon guys.

Regarding the highlighted part, I dont like to call peoples names on here, it's not cool, but if they bring up a stupid point like "Pre TS Luffy > Doffy" then im not even going to bother explaining why they are so wrong, I will either ignore them or just state that they're wrong. I wont call them names.

Im NOT going to argue back and forth about why they are wrong and just stoop down to their level and lose braincells.
Also, I didnt mean Vergo's kicks were cheerleaders, I was referring to Critical's posting photos of a cheerleader kicking.

Can't agree with that; if he was a bad strategist then the Whitebeard Pirates may have never made it out of the encirclement, and they would have been trapped and taken even heavier losses. He basically went into an enemy territory, where they knew Whitebeard was coming and could plan very well, and he did well with what he could.

People forget or ignore this part. The WB Pirates vs Marine HQ war couldve gone way differently if it was in WB's territory or even in neutral territory.

 

[SupremeMod]

Where does Rayleigh stand in the power scale? Or Sabo?

I feel like they're both above Luffy, albeit slightly at this point.

I really hope Oda shows us Dragon's power and doesn't just have him offscreen a strong opponent.

 

[albertwv]

Where does Rayleigh stand in the power scale? Or Sabo?

I feel like they're both above Luffy, albeit slightly at this point.

I really hope Oda shows us Dragon's power and doesn't just have him offscreen a strong opponent.

I think Old Ray is still above Luffy and is as strong as an Admiral.

Sabo I believe he is overrated simply because he is #2 of Revolutionaries. He was able to somewhat push Fujitora but I dont see Sabo able to defeat Doflamingo, maybe he couldve but I just dont see it. Sabo to me is around YC3 maybe YC2 but NOT YC1.
I dont think Sabo could defeat Katakuri.

 

[SupremeMod]

I think Old Ray is still above Luffy and is as strong as an Admiral.

Sabo I believe he is overrated simply because he is #2 of Revolutionaries. He was able to somewhat push Fujitora but I dont see Sabo able to defeat Doflamingo, maybe he couldve but I just dont see it. Sabo to me is around YC3 maybe YC2 but NOT YC1.
I dont think Sabo could defeat Katakuri.

Agree to disagree, but I think Sabo beats both. It's always been implied that Luffy was the weakest of the 3. Sabo learned Dragon's fighting style and got the Mera Mera fruit. Neither Sabo nor Fujitora was going all out so it's difficult to use that as a power scale.

As you said, Sabo is 2 in the RA; which is basically Yonko level squad is it not?

The way I've always interpreted the RA is that they're a slightly stronger and bigger threat to the WG.

Everything is up to interpretation and whatnot.

 

[Fox666]

Where does Rayleigh stand in the power scale? Or Sabo?

I feel like they're both above Luffy, albeit slightly at this point.

I really hope Oda shows us Dragon's power and doesn't just have him offscreen a strong opponent.

Rayleigh is close to the full strength of an Admiral. He would push Kaido to his limit without any help. So he's still a step above Luffy.

I'm sure Sabo is identical to Ace, and is on the Yonko Commander level. Honestly Luffy already surpassed him in Whole Cake Island arc, and now would easily defeat him.

 

[SupremeMod]

We all agree that Rayleigh is still above current Luffy, correct? As I said before, slightly.

Rayleigh, might be in the same boat as Old WB, strong enough to fight admirals but too old to keep a long battle.

The Wano arc kind of made a lot of continuity problems. Why didn't either WB or the disbanded Roger Pirates go to Wano?

--- Double Post Merged, May 18, 2021, Original Post Date: May 18, 2021 ---

Rayleigh is close to the full strength of an Admiral. He would push Kaido to his limit without any help. So he's still a step above Luffy.

I'm sure Sabo is identical to Ace, and is on the Yonko Commander level. Honestly Luffy already surpassed him in Whole Cake Island arc, and now would easily defeat him.

Oh wow, you think Luffy has surpassed Sabo and could easily defeat him? That's quite the proclamation.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Where does Rayleigh stand in the power scale? Or Sabo?

I feel like they're both above Luffy, albeit slightly at this point.

I really hope Oda shows us Dragon's power and doesn't just have him offscreen a strong opponent.

Probably stronger than dudes like katakuri , maybe around marco level

I think Old Ray is still above Luffy and is as strong as an Admiral.

Sabo I believe he is overrated simply because he is #2 of Revolutionaries. He was able to somewhat push Fujitora but I dont see Sabo able to defeat Doflamingo, maybe he couldve but I just dont see it. Sabo to me is around YC3 maybe YC2 but NOT YC1.
I dont think Sabo could defeat Katakuri.

Nah I think current luffy has surpassed Rayleigh , if not because of stamina and age degrading Rayleigh strength
Ehhhh sabo can use advanced haki , his dragon flow is the same as the haki luffy just learned it’s Just on the biggest scale we’ve seen so far

Rayleigh is close to the full strength of an Admiral. He would push Kaido to his limit without any help. So he's still a step above Luffy.

I'm sure Sabo is identical to Ace, and is on the Yonko Commander level. Honestly Luffy already surpassed him in Whole Cake Island arc, and now would easily defeat him.

Nah sabo was much stronger than ace he actually could use advanced haki while fighting
Ace was the most natural fighter and a gifted dude but he was still kinda green
Sabo is clear of him
Rayleigh didn’t push kizaru to any limit , we know he can keep up with an admiral for 10 minutes even tho his stamina was going down and he was very very tired
Rayleigh isn’t a scrub but that doesn’t show he’s on par with the OG admirals

We all agree that Rayleigh is still above current Luffy, correct? As I said before, slightly.

Rayleigh, might be in the same boat as Old WB, strong enough to fight admirals but too old to keep a long battle.

The Wano arc kind of made a lot of continuity problems. Why didn't either WB or the disbanded Roger Pirates go to Wano?

--- Double Post Merged, May 18, 2021, Original Post Date: May 18, 2021 ---

Oh wow, you think Luffy has surpassed Sabo and could easily defeat him? That's quite the proclamation.

Ehhhhh like I said the degree of what kizaru wasn’t shown , Rayleigh still poweful but that was just a 10 minute skirmish
Sabo for me is in a weird space we’ve not seen him fight all out and get a good gauge on his current abilities

one piece isn’t a clear one to one , situation and context one to one matters

and no one strong is getting owned and defeated in10 minutes once you’ve reached a certain level

 

[M3J]

Where does Rayleigh stand in the power scale? Or Sabo?

I feel like they're both above Luffy, albeit slightly at this point.

I really hope Oda shows us Dragon's power and doesn't just have him offscreen a strong opponent.

I think Rayleigh is easily above Luffy and on par with admirals, if not slightly weaker. Sabo's probably similar to Luffy in power, if not weaker.

 

[albertwv]

Probably stronger than dudes like katakuri , maybe around marco level


Nah I think current luffy has surpassed Rayleigh , if not because of stamina and age degrading Rayleigh strength
Ehhhh sabo can use advanced haki , his dragon flow is the same as the haki luffy just learned it’s Just on the biggest scale we’ve seen so far


Nah sabo was much stronger than ace he actually could use advanced haki while fighting
Ace was the most natural fighter and a gifted dude but he was still kinda green
Sabo is clear of him
Rayleigh didn’t push kizaru to any limit , we know he can keep up with an admiral for 10 minutes even tho his stamina was going down and he was very very tired
Rayleigh isn’t a scrub but that doesn’t show he’s on par with the OG admirals

Ehhhhh like I said the degree of what kizaru wasn’t shown , Rayleigh still poweful but that was just a 10 minute skirmish
Sabo for me is in a weird space we’ve not seen him fight all out and get a good gauge on his current abilities

Rayleigh manage to make Kizaru bleed something we've yet to see anyone do. Oda just wanted to show us that Ray was old, but I doubt Ray wouldve been actually tired in 10-30 minutes of fighting. He swam through the calm belt, killed at least one neptunian, and you think he was very very tired.
Rayleigh is on par with the OG admirals, would he lose, yes but high diff,

Sabo is not above current Luffy and probably not even stronger than after WCI Luffy with FS. Where does it show that Sabo can use advanced haki?
Sabo is above Ace but not above Katakuri.

I think the RA is actually weaker than we expect. They fled from their home base once the BB Pirates showed up. The 4 commanders look pretty weak to me only Karasu seem to be strong but Betty or Lindbergh didnt impress me. If Ivankov is a top fighter then not really impressed by the RA.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Rayleigh manage to make Kizaru bleed something we've yet to see anyone do. Oda just wanted to show us that Ray was old, but I doubt Ray wouldve been actually tired in 10-30 minutes of fighting. He swam through the calm belt, killed at least one neptunian, and you think he was very very tired.
Rayleigh is on par with the OG admirals, would he lose, yes but high diff,

Sabo is not above current Luffy and probably not even stronger than after WCI Luffy with FS. Where does it show that Sabo can use advanced haki?
Sabo is above Ace but not above Katakuri.

I think the RA is actually weaker than we expect. They fled from their home base once the BB Pirates showed up. The 4 commanders look pretty weak to me only Karasu seem to be strong but Betty or Lindbergh didnt impress me. If Ivankov is a top fighter then not really impressed by the RA.

Him making kizaru bleed is pretty situational

Spoiler: Rayleigh stops Kizaru

Spoiler: Kizaru: Ama No Murakumo

kizaru again was not interested and was trying to eliminate the straw hats

Sabo use of advanced haki is when he smashed the colleseum Floor or at least strongly implied , it works the same way , passing the first layer and attacking the core

Spoiler: Sabo Finds arena core

Spoiler: Dragon Claw Fist : Dragon Breath

Spoiler: Luffy's Ryuo

he attacks the core and destroys it from the inside
It follows the explanation that hyogoro gave or at least very similar in principle , sabo didn’t destroy from the outside and it appears super similar to what luffy did , the haki accumulated in his arms first

Spoiler: Luffy Trying to Apply ryuo

For me this was a case of Oda introducing an advanced technique early but not harping on it and that’s why it flew under the radar but sabo showed advanced armament haki use and in the most destructive capacity we’ve seen so far

I think I’m not quite sure what happened with the Blackbeard vs revolutionaries
A surprise attack and we aren’t sure how many of their top fighters were available at the time , remember the commanders are always rarely together and are always on the field liberating the world

random tidbit current cipher pol 0 must be pretty tough , Blackbeard clashed with them but then fled , not that they’re more powerful than him butI thinks he figured the fight wasn’t worth it ( which is what I suspect happened )

Random speculation on my part

Spoiler: Koala Briefing Dragon on Dressrossa

Spoiler: RA Declaration of war

They wanted to declare war against the celestial dragons that’s their focus , battling a yonkou crew does nothing for them and Would inflict unnecessary casualties
I think a) they could have been gone already b) didn’t want to fight and left which then the Blackbeard raided and c) fought for a while , either losing or saw it to being long drawn out
then destroyed the base and took what they wanted

 

[albertwv]

Him making kizaru bleed is pretty situational

kizaru again was not interested and was trying to eliminate the straw hats

Sabo use of advanced haki is when he smashed the colleseum Floor or at least strongly implied , it works the same way , passing the first layer and attacking the core

he attacks the core
It follows the explanation that hyogoro gave or at least very similar in principle , sabo didn’t destroy from the outside and it appears super similar to what luffy did , the haki accumulated in his arms first

For me this was a case of Oda introducing an advanced technique early but not harping on it and that’s why it flew under the radar but sabo showed advanced armament haki use and in the most destructive capacity we’ve seen so far

Kizaru was going after the easy prey and that was his mission: to eliminate the SHs because the Celestial dragons would be bitching which they did. Also shows how Rayleigh was enough to stop him and keep him occupied. Who else has made Kizaru bleed?

Nah, Sabo just punched the floor hard, shows his hands/dragon claws are destructive but no real indication that it was advance haki. Dont be like Moe and claim something is real when there is no solid proof. Look what happened with him and Law having COC.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Kizaru was going after the easy prey and that was his mission: to eliminate the SHs because the Celestial dragons would be bitching which they did. Also shows how Rayleigh was enough to stop him and keep him occupied. Who else has made Kizaru bleed?

Nah, Sabo just punched the floor hard, shows his hands/dragon claws are destructive but no real indication that it was advance haki. Dont be like Moe and claim something is real when there is no solid proof. Look what happened with him and Law having COC.

It’s legit a one to one
Sabo said it has a core the very tech mouse
He didn’t punch he said again , it has a core then it explodes from the inside out
It was an advanced technique it just wasn’t spelt out , but Sabo mentioning about the “core” makes it known it’s the same technique and principle
Sabo digs his hands in , it wasn’t a regular hard haki hit
I think Oda will make it be clearly known in his next fight but Sabo is an advanced used

sorry I don’t mean it as a means to downplay Rayleigh as he’s incredibly powerful but the bleeding wasn’t based on him overpowering or having an advantage on kizaru , kizaru focus was elsewhere and aimed at someone is all , no regular Joe can do that but I think plenty strong people could make kizaru bleed in the same context

--- Double Post Merged, May 18, 2021, Original Post Date: May 18, 2021 ---

oda has introduced things without actually saying what they are straight up
sabo emphasized the core for a reason , he attacked the inside

 

[albertwv]

It’s legit a one to one
Sabo said it has a core the very tech mouse
He didn’t punch he said again , it has a core then it explodes from the inside out
It was an advanced technique it just wasn’t spelt out , but Sabo mentioning about the “core” makes it known it’s the same technique and principle
Sabo digs his hands in , it wasn’t a regular hard haki hit
I think Oda will make it be clearly known in his next fight but Sabo is an advanced used

oda has introduced things without actually saying what they are straight up
sabo emphasized the core for a reason , he attacked the inside

I would hold off on saying that. Signs may point to it but until it is clearly shown or expressed or stated then don't make a claim for it. Like I mentioned, Moe claimed that Law had COC, although events may point to that, it is still not proven, so Sabo having advanced haki may be possible but not concrete evidence.
It could just be him having really strong haki and destroying the colosseum floor. We will see hopefully.

But until then I rank Sabo YC3. Just because he is a #2 of RA doesnt automatically make him a YC1.

 

[Rein Avara]

Moderator Notice:
For those of you who like to use screenshots/images as part of your evidence in discussions, if you are going to exceed more than 3 images on your post, please use spoilers so you don't clog up the thread.
I know I mentioned this in the chapter thread, but the same thing applies across all one piece threads.

~ Ēsu Taichou

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Again with me for Sabo we have him fighting and doing pretty well against an admiral , granted he wasn’t going all out , however sabo was literally working out his kinks of his fruit
His range is very high I think he’s clear ahead of YC3 , but his range is from yc2 to around Marco level
He demonstrated like I said the most outwardly and biggest scale use of advanced flow haki in the series so far , he shattered an entire stage and burrowed a whole all the way to the underground center

 

[SupremeMod]

I think a lot of people are downplaying Sabo tbh.

The more I think about it, the more I think he's going to fight and kill Akainu.

I could even imagine a situation where Akainu blindsides Luffy, injures him, stands over him ready to deal the death blow, and Sabo punches through Akainu's chest from the back. Maybe a bit overhanded with the irony, but that'd be pretty awesome. lol Oooooffff actually, I think someone stopping Sabo and interfering with Akainu killing Luffy might be more interesting. Oh man, imagine if Garp stopped Sabo from killing Akainu, only to do it himself? Epic.

 

[thedude]

I think a lot of people are downplaying Sabo tbh.

The more I think about it, the more I think he's going to fight and kill Akainu.

I could even imagine a situation where Akainu blindsides Luffy, injures him, stands over him ready to deal the death blow, and Sabo punches through Akainu's chest from the back. Maybe a bit overhanded with the irony, but that'd be pretty awesome. lol Oooooffff actually, I think someone stopping Sabo and interfering with Akainu killing Luffy might be more interesting. Oh man, imagine if Garp stopped Sabo from killing Akainu, only to do it himself? Epic.

I can't see anyone but Luffy beating Akainu. He's the head of the military, the man who killed Ace in front of Luffy and gave Luffy the vicious scar he sports today. Luffy needs an antagonist in the Marines, and no one is more suited for that than the man who nearly killed him.

 

[Ellenate]

I can't see anyone but Luffy beating Akainu. He's the head of the military, the man who killed Ace in front of Luffy and gave Luffy the vicious scar he sports today. Luffy needs an antagonist in the Marines, and no one is more suited for that than the man who nearly killed him.

Feels like a job for dragon/sabo but-

Blackbeard already attacked (defeated?) the revolutionaries- so i have no idea how they'd stand a chance against the wg.

From a power progression standpoint (eg. take down a, then b, and then finally c), one piece is a clusterf***. Not only that, no matter how strong the crew gets. They can't realistically take on the wg/yonko without 3rd party help (and this has been a thing since pre).

I say all this to reiterate my point that, the power levels in one piece are largely MEANINGLESS. Almost every single match-up in this manga would be labeled as spite if looked at on paper alone.

The crew hasn't been in a fair fight since arlong park.

 

[LaGOAT]

i think sabo>luffy(slightly for now)because his portrayal and hype. ill put him around marco lvl/YC1 level